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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWIW, sounds very similar. Fire up the jet pack and pull yourself out first. Get happy with you.

Directly, I used a modified 180. I worked a lot on me, but I didn't truly/completely cut her out. She spent the first 8 months mired in the *what have I done/I'm so sorry" phase. Very little remorse though. She honestly didn't have a clue as to what she could do to help me or the marriage heal. I helped her out.

I didn't hold her hand, or give her sticky notes or anything like that, but I would give her suggestions(that I usually found here) or just tell her directly if I knew. That wasn't too often til I got myself a little straightened out. Lot of Me time.

8 months in, she asked me to buy her a book. Knew the title and what she wanted to do with it. That was the first sign that I was on the right path.

FWIW, FWW was emotionally abandoned by her parents from birth as far as she knows. Can't remember a Christmas, Thanksgiving or any family event together. Even better, can't remember either parent she was told "I Love You " by. In the 13 years we've been together, I've never heard it either. At an early age she began to seek out positive affirmation from older men. One of her first memories of POSER is of him fucking her when she was 12 or 13. She thinks he was 17 or 18.

I only bring that up in the context that there may be some other issues affecting your FWW. It might be difficult for her to even know where to begin.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2063 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

other issues affecting your FWW

Too many to count. Parents divorced when she was 6. Stuck with her dysfunctional mom, whom I never heard an "I love you" out of the 15 years I've known her. So that is very similar. Extreme, extreme case of narcissistic personality disorder. She is literally incapable of viewing anything outside of herself. No concept of love outside of how the relationship benefits her desires and once it no longer does, torch it. Even things we would consider as part of mundane daily life are guided by what she can gain from it. She can't even give her grandkids a piece of candy without asking for something in return.
WW struggles with empathy and growing up had no concept of unconditional love. Love was something bought and paid for. Every little feeling has to be validated. Really quite sad.

Jetpack fueled and fired up...


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
foundoutlater
♂ Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

545real
On a lighter note. We're trading recipes on the Menz forum. Wait til the wimmenz get a hold of that!

I think they have and there may be a few more readers now.

The longer I think about it the more I realize I need more help. I need to reach out to a psych and look at some meds. I did not think I am depressed but damn if I can concentrate. I’m going to blow it all to hell at work if I don’t get some help. I was on AD’s for a while. They helped. I got off because I was “better” and they got in the way with sex. Anyone else here need to go back on AD’s?


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1059 | Registered: Jul 2011
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even now typing this I can see how her gestures could be perceived by everyone here as merely manipulation tactics to bring me back in the fold.

That is a nagging worry in the back of mind. Actions, not words. Just when I start relaxing after 17 months, she goes and breaks NC. What bothers me the most is that she did it in a way just like she conducted her affair - figured there was no way I would find out, so what I don't know won't hurt me. But just like the A, I found out. And the consequences is it set me the fuck back almost two years. Getting tired of chutes and ladders when all I roll is chutes.

ETA: Found - do what you need mate. I resisted it for way too long. I'll take numb over what I used to feel for now.

[This message edited by Tred at 7:22 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3294 | Registered: Dec 2011
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Actions, not words

That's it exactly. Couldn't quite put my finger on it. Right now I'm mostly getting words, good words, words that need to be expressed but still only words. Other than NC actions aren't as apparent currently. Someday I hope she graduates to actions that will let me love her again.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's it exactly.

That's what I love about the Menz thread...it's like sitting in a pub with some mates and someone will say something and you are like, fuck yeah, that makes sense. And until then there is great banter, conversation, jibes, and eye candy.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3294 | Registered: Dec 2011
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yep tred, and the guy a few elbows down hears extreme EXTREME narcissist
and sighs out loud
leave her.
I may have become more loyal. Primarily to myself As sorry as I am we're here, it's covered by my gladness to be among such ones.
drinkin elbows

Posts: 5997 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just on weekends mind you.
STFU

Posts: 5997 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are more loyal just on weekends? :)

Aesir, nice pic. Don't google eye candy though. Or do it.

Too bad, I was going to start working on my six pack but it doesn't prevent cheating? I guess back to the drawing board.

I'll be what I want to be. I like girlish drinks and not beer. I'm okay with that.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1158 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I like girlish drinks and not beer. I'm okay with that.

I kinda like making my own. Something of a connection to ancient history if you start with your own grapes in the back yard and end up drunk.

Debating if I should make some crab apple cider this fall, then let it freeze outside and remove the ice.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Debating if I should make some crab apple cider this fall, then let it freeze outside and remove the ice.

Awesome. I actually make a pretty tasty jelly with them!

Down to 30


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2063 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something long and interesting I just read. This should get us to page 50. Lets close 12 out with a bang.
This article is from a later chapter of the Psychopath Free book (click to view on Amazon).

Narcissist, sociopaths, and psychopaths.

When they’re feeling threatened or bored, psychopaths will often use what’s called “word salad” in an attempt to keep your mind occupied. Basically, it’s a conversation from hell. They aren’t actually saying anything at all. They’re just talking at you. Before you can even respond to one outrageous statement, they’re already on to the next. You’ll be left with your head spinning. Study the warning signs, and disengage before any damage can be done:

1. Circular conversations

You’ll think you worked something out, only to begin discussing it again in two minutes. And it’s as if you never even said a word the first time around. They begin reciting all of the same tired garbage, ignoring any legitimate arguments you may have provided moments ago. If something is going to be resolved, it will be on their terms. With psychopaths, the same issues will come up over and over again—why are they so friendly with their ex again? Why are they suddenly not paying any attention to you? Why do they sound so eager to get off the phone? And every time you bring up these issues, it’s as if you never even had the argument in the past. You get sucked back in, only to feel crazy & high-maintenance when they decide “I’m sick of always arguing about this.” It’s a merry-go-round.

2. Bringing up your past wrongdoings & ignoring their own

If you point out something nasty they're doing—like ignoring you or cheating—they’ll mention something totally unrelated from the past that you’ve done wrong. Did you used to drink too much? Well then, their cheating isn’t really all that bad compared to your drinking problem. Were you late to your first date two years ago? Well then, you can’t complain about them ignoring you for three days straight. And God forbid you bring up any of their wrongdoings. Then, you are a bitter lunatic with a list of grievances.

3. Condescending & patronizing tone

The entire conversation will have this calm, cool demeanor. It’s almost as if they’re mocking you, gaging your reactions to see how much further they can push. When you finally react emotionally, that’s when they’ll tell you to calm down, raise their eyebrows, smirk, or feign disappointment. The whole point of word salad is to make you unhinged, and therefore give them the upper hand. Because remember, conversations are competitions—just like anything else with a psychopath.

4. Accusing you of doing things that they themselves are doing

I mentioned this in the previous section about psychopaths putting you on the defense. In heated arguments, psychopaths have no shame. They will begin labeling you with their own horrible qualities. It goes beyond projection, because most people project unknowingly. Psychopaths know they are smearing you with their own flaws, and they are seeking a reaction. After all, how can you not react to such blatant hypocrisy?

5. Multiple personas

Through the course of a word salad conversation, you’re likely to experience a variety of their personalities. It’s sort of like good cop, bad cop, demented cop, stalker cop, scary cop, baby cop. If you’re pulling away, sick of their abuse and lies, they will restore a glimpse of the idealize phase. A little torture to lure you back in with promises of marriage and children. If that doesn’t work, suddenly they’ll start insulting the things they once idealized. You’ll be left wondering who you’re even talking to, because his personas are imploding as they struggle to regain control. Our beloved administrator, Victoria, summed this up perfectly: “The devil himself was unleashed in a desperate fit of fury after being recognized: twisting, turning, writhing, spewing, flattering, sparkling, vomiting.”

6. The eternal victim

Somehow their cheating and lying will always lead back to a conversation about their abusive past or a crazy ex. You will end up feeling bad for them, even when they've done something horribly wrong. You will instead use it as an opportunity to bond with them over their supposed complex feelings. And once they have successfully averted your attention elsewhere, everything will go back to the way it was. No bonding or deep spiritual connection whatsoever. Psychopaths cry “abuse”—but in the end, you are the one left with nothing.

7. You begin explaining basic human emotions

You find yourself explaining things like “empathy” and “feelings” and “being nice”. Normal adults do not need to be taught the golden rules from kindergarten. You are not the first person who has attempted to see the good in them, and you will not be the last. You think to yourself, “if they can just understand why I’m hurt, then they’ll stop doing it.” But they won’t. They wouldn’t have done it in the first place if they were a decent human being. The worst part is, they pretended to be decent when you first met—sucking you in with this sweet, caring persona. They know how to be kind & good, but they find it boring.

8. Excuses

Everyone messes up every now and then, but psychopaths recite excuses more often than they actually follow through with promises. Their actions never match up with their words. You are disappointed so frequently that you feel relieved when they do something decent—they condition you to become grateful for the mediocre.

9. “What in the world just happened”

These conversations leave you drained. You will be left with an actual headache. You will spend hours, even days, obsessing over the argument. You’ll feel as if you exhausted all of your emotional energy to accomplish absolutely nothing. You will have a million pre-planned arguments in your head, ready to respond to all the unaddressed points that you couldn’t keep up with. You will feel the need to defend yourself. You’ll try to come up with a diplomatic solution that evenly distributes the blame, and therefore gives you both a chance to apologize and make up. But in the end, you’ll find that you’re the only one apologizing.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 8:17 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, maybe it's just me, but every time I think about Wonderboy waiting for the new thread to start so he can meme it, this comes to mind....

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7juyo_family-guy-peeping-quagmire_shortfilms


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1584 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
PowerGlo
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Member # 34132
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for posting that B444. It's almost as if my STBXWW reads straight from the book. It's unbelievable how her actions follow along right with the script. I am doing everything I can to get away from her and she has flipped everything over to make herself look like a poor, helpless victim. It sickens me...


Married 27 years...
DDay #1 11/11/11 - AFF profile with 10-15 boy toys.
DDay #2 1/13/2012 - still at it with the AFF boys.
1/17/2014 - Divorced
I knew the moment had arrived
For killing the past and coming back to life


Posts: 133 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NW Indiana
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank God my W isn't this crazy, even if she does show flashes of it from time to time. We all do.

But I've run a couple of companies that had Board members that were 100% full-on *this*. Scary.

A common factor not mentioned is one reason they can play Word Salad so effectively is they never actually listen to what ou are saying, they're using your talking time to compose their next move.

A had one guy, a well-respected professor from one of the leading Ivy League colleges that was totally off the charts this way.

A trick I learned fron dealing with him was to insert nonsense phrases into my sentences without changing my pitch or cadence. When he didn't react, I knew he was tuned out and could act accordingly.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 9:05 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PG,

Just something to consider - where do you think your STBX is getting these ideas?


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3294 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know what's frustrating also is that in the wake of DDAY, with all the mood swings on the part of the BS and the marital history re-writing and whatnot, I'm sure a foggy WS would read that exact same post and say to themselves, "OMG, that sounds EXACTLY like my BS....OMG, my BS is a psychopath, I really AM a victim" and really, truly believe themselves.

ETA:

Also, this...

“The devil himself was unleashed in a desperate fit of fury after being recognized: twisting, turning, writhing, spewing, flattering, sparkling, vomiting.”
...is an awesome way to describe the reaction you get when you back a compulsive liar into a corner. Anyone who's ever been in a situation where someone is suddenly trapped by the numerous people they've lied to and confronted with the conflicting stories knows what I'm talking about....I'm thinking about that 'Cheaters' episode where the host got stabbed with a knife.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:22 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1584 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks Betrayed. All of those points really stuck out with me. But 9 really stands out.
9. “What in the world just happened”

I can't begin to tell you how many headaches and confused days I have had when dealing with the craziness. Years worth probably. For the longest time I thought I was the problem. It took a while but I finally learned I was being manipulated and played. Even now, after the
A she still does it. I call her on it now but she still continues on and just changes tactics. I have figured out that sticking to the topic or just disengaging is the best option. Monotone voice, emotionless, arms crossed, standing up straight, and ending the converstation when it stops being a conversation is the best thing I can do. Shields up, phasers on standby, escape route locked into navigation computer.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To touch on the topic of "alpha-ness" and all that jazz...I've been reading this book lately and it's really cool/inspirational. It's called "The Art of Manliness - Manvotionals: Timeless Wisdom and Advice on Living the 7 Manly Virtues"

Now, if you can get past the admittedly goofy title, it's actually really fucking awesome. It's not so much a book about "Hey, here's how to be a real man." as much as it is a book that lists certain virtues and includes a series of essays, poems, speeches, etc., either about or demonstrating the particular value. I'm loving it.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1584 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP

Great lead, thanks. I went to Amazon, read the reviews, ordered a copy. Might buy a couple of more for my sons come Christmas time. Also found a link to their website. That's pretty cool too.

I spent my whole life around Feminism. You go Girlz! I'm all for it, but not the emasculation of the Menz which has been a fellow traveler. These days I'm pushing the Manosphere.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
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