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User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
foundoutlater
♂ Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good to see you wonderboy.

I still have nightmares...but not every night anymore

I hate those nights and have been having a few lately. For me they are not always infidelity related, but always about betrayal. They all suck.

Iíll eventually have some time to look at Kay Ė maybe Iíll get the cliff notes instead from the Menz IDK. Iím tired of figuring that kind of shit out. If it was not about me (and it was not) then my energy does not need to be there. Iím all right just how I was/am/will be. Hell anyone can be put into the fantasy warp locker and look like Laterís dream man, who does not look interested in women anyway. Hell fantasy has nothing to do with what is really there, itís all between the ears anyway. Itís what they believe, not what it is right? Nothing wrong with fantasy IMO as long as you know that is what it is and it is in line with the bonds of a relationship.

ETA - BTW I think there is a ways to go - I thinks it takes 999 posts to close a thread

[This message edited by foundoutlater at 4:12 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


Your beliefs donít make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1062 | Registered: Jul 2011
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This idea that women are evolutionarily predispositioned to some sort of submissive role and secretly want their all of their needs to be taken care of for them. You know what that sounds like to me?
Laziness

HAHA
You said it not me
Amen brother. That is exactly what it is.
And I don't think his message was totally on Alpha, it was to be true to yourself.
TC
I was inspired in a way that I was doing the right thing and I have a clear course of action. That either way this went I have a plan and I'm good with it. At this time she is dictating her own future. Of course I want it to work but I don't give a fuck if it doesn't. I'm not her father nor am I her boss. I'm detached. Whatever happens happens. I let go of it. She's her own person.
But I was clear. No exceptions, no excuses. Period.
Even with that I may walk away anyway. She has to try. Not me.
I have to deal with my own issues like the mental movies and triggers. I'll never accept it. I may not want to live with it. Her fear should be what I'm going to do. And it is. And it's not a gimmick.
In the beginning I thought the 180 was about trying to manipulate her feelings and responses. I was wrong of course. I don't want to do that anyway. I'm better than that. True love, real love, is important. It's not right to mess with their head or your own. I realized that I had to let go and tend to myself.
When I let go. When i started going out, When I was on the precipice. She changed.
Is it real or is it false. I don't know. She has shown that she is capable of hard core deception.
So I just said boldly, clearly and in certain terms that if she crossed the line, contacted him, he contacts her and if she decides not to tell me for a variety of different reasons to include avoiding conflict or my feelings or whatever else bullshit reasons I will find out and we're done.
If any A's from the past emerge and it wasn't her who advised me of it then We are done. I asked if I was clear enough. I asked for feedback. I asked her if she understood. She said yes. Never again. She loved me. She wants to die with me. She was sorry. She was stupid etc.
am I still upset. Absolutely. Disgusted, ashamed.
Us Menz have gone above and beyond working this shit out. My priest said it is far easier to walk away and give up, and it is understandable if we do but it takes courage to move forward and rebuild trust and confidence with someone we pledged our lives to.
Please don't take this as bravado or that this course of action is golden. Whatever happens happens.


[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 4:23 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just did the laundry, cleaned the house, and made potato salad. Not feeling too masculine at the moment.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did not know you were a woman's porn star, Mr. Kite.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why not? FTN!!! IMO an alpha male is the guy who takes care of the family no matter what the task is! Does what needs doing regardless. Good on ya Mr. K!

Got a whole lot more on the subject. Probably starting with a certain fella named Audie Murphy.

Gotta go fix supper for the family and hang the laundry while the wife works out though!


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2068 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did not know you were a woman's porn star, Mr. Kite.

A woman will tell you that doing the dishes are sexy and then goes out to find a man who won't. Go figure.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did not know you were a woman's porn star, Mr. Kite.

We all have our little secrets don't we?


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

5454, there ya dun did it.
Audie Murphy. Hell yeah.
Add to that:
Louie Zamperini
Bud Day
How bout Desmond Doss? The only Conscientious Objector to ever receive the Medal of Honor. Those great men's stories are the oil I fry my potatoes in.
Mary E. Walker? The only woman who ever received the MOH.

I doubt she ever spent one scintilla of her fine life wondering if her emotional needs were being met - such a first world problem!
Ready to be impressed?

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=92038292482

Greatness has no gender. I marinate in it to make me better.

Thinking that I ever had one bad day in my life humbles me to tears.

Kite, the pink thing up top? Well, it's a little over the top. After Later's self portrait, is anyone besides me actually scared of what wonderboy's planning to post?
Maybe excited would be a better word.
No. Not like that. STFU.


Posts: 6015 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The Elevator Pitch Version of Kayís premise is that Beta males provide the comfort and support that women actually need in todayís world, but that millions of years of evolution have programmed them to be attracted to Alphas, who actually arenít that well equipped for this world. The sort of trouble that BMenz are all too familiar with often results.

The solution is for men to bring a mix of Alpha and Beta to the party, and join the Manosphere, but society in general, and women in specific are trying to drill out our Alpha traits. I sure saw it in my M, and worse with my two sons in school.

That took me back to the stuff that I was afraid to like in front of her. Fire, knives, tools, beer, bourbon. Reefer. Sex. Her naked. Buddies. Cursing. Fixing shit, getting dirty. Loud music. Outdoors. Some of my friends like guns, and fishing and big trucks and we have fun together.

I also started telling her what I was doing and offering to let her join me instead of always asking her what she wanted to do. Or just telling her what I was going to do after work and would be home late.

I'm totally trustworthy, honest, and brave. The only thing she has to worry about in our M is herself.

None of this is any surprise to anybody here in BMenz. Kay just puts a compelling framework around why, and once you get that down, you can extrapolate.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 6:25 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My deepest urges upon entering manhood were to crush my father's skull with a rock so as to assume my place at the head of the tribe and to eliminate every sexual rival by force.

So it's not just me? Thanks for that FP.

Tred, my wife affaired down. There's no rhyme or reason for this shit. Don't let your wife's bad behavior make you feel less about yourself.

From what I've gathered reading your wife's posts on SI, you're the prize brother. If she's proven that she can lasso the so-called "Alpha Male" (in this case, a guy who screws other men's wives), then why is she still with you? All she and the rest of our wives have proven is that there are men in the world (lots of men) who will gladly use them sexually if given an opportunity.

They should have asked me first, I would have been glad to confirm that for them. It would have saved them and us a lot of grief.

You're an "alpha" in all the ways that count. This is the truth, not some b.s. "I'm ok, you're ok" ploy. BTW, if you don't think special force guys have to deal with their share of unfaithful wives, think again.

It's cold, it's cruel, it's faithless, and it sucks, but the bottom line is that sometimes spouses - men and women - go looking for some strange. Because they want to. Because they're bored, with themselves mostly. Or with their careers, their families, where they live, etc. Whatever. We have to get out of the mindset that someone else's shitty behavior is a reflection on us. It's a reflection on them.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1028 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They should have asked me first, I would have been glad to confirm that for them. It would have saved them and us a lot of grief.

Funny - we did talk about this before. She was on AFF back in 2004ish and was sending nude photos to some dude she met online through another site. We had this talk then. Didn't matter. She was skyping with an old boyfriend (her first love) for a few years and then FB'ing with him. Even though I explained how it hurt, she did it. There's more, but what's the fucking point? I let it happen. I should have walked then. Or then. Or then. Because I saw it coming and let it. It's my bad.

WB - I vote you get first post on Part 13. If you can add cats throwing fireballs to a picture of JJCT with his arms around friends he has met, even better.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That took me back to the stuff that I was afraid to like in front of her. Fire, knives, tools, beer, bourbon. Reefer. Sex. Her naked. Buddies. Cursing. Fixing shit, getting dirty. Loud music. Outdoors. Some of my friends like guns, and fishing and big trucks and we have fun together.

In hindsight I was whipped. Her interests came before mine. I have a 99 Camaro Z28. A relic from my single days. It's in mint condition except for the leather seats that need to be redone. What did I do? Bought her a purse.
That was then. Recently I went out and bought a brand new Bushmaster AR15 M4 and I always have a bottle of Jacks in the cabinet.
Thank you. Now she luuurves me. Maybe I was in the fog.


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Back, not that anyone missed me, anyone? anyone? fuck no one loves me. Good thing I love myself and don't give a shit what you guys think of me. Now if only the WW could have that kind of self assurance.

Lots of good stuff. Little sad I missed a Hulk Hogan's Rock 'N' Wrestling and a Audie Murphy reference I didn't get to throw in. Wait I just did, good shit! Audie Murphy now thats a guy that got shit done!

At a waterpark with the fam for part of the weekend seen a dude with this as a trampstamp...

Shit you not. Wished I had the balls to snap a picture with my phone, but the dude's biceps was bigger than my head, and I don't like the thought of someone popping my head like a zit. Wanted to laugh but like I said he probably could have folded me into one of those origami sailor's hat and stuck me on top his steroid-expanded head.

I guess there's really no point to this post except to add one more to the 999 countdown.
We're all waiting Wonderboy, don't fuck this shit up! You hyped it, I don't want to be disappointed! Only my wife is allowed to disappoint me and get away with it.

***Edit lots don't ask

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 8:18 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 426 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"And the lamentation of their women"

Lol


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
ďI have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.Ē
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2068 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, Conan's muscles and now a half naked man. What the hell guys?

We should start #13 with some eye candy.

ETA: Conan again in this page!

[This message edited by nuance at 10:54 PM, August 20th (Tuesday)]


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 2:25 AM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been down that rabbit hole of trying to be the mans man and yet awesome husband; was a fucking colossal loss (dont we all know it at some level?). Honesty and integrity is sexy, so is being a great father figure.

If you do something for someone elses approval and pleasure or even their ease or out of love for them and winning their love-you're always going to be in for some major disappointment (and this general manliness drive is also somewhat 'societal approval seeking').

Honestly though, I dont give 2 shits anymore about how attractive I am to my W, or to any woman for that matter. Cant blame me for being a tad under interested in relationships y'know. It may change sometime in the future, but I really dont want to "invest" anymore into a bottomless pit of continual losses.

Yes, I do want the INcome of living my life as I want to and doing awesome things; some of which may classify as manly and may even heighten my attractiveness/"sex score" profile - but that is not my goal.

I'm all for re-profiling men back into manliness and stop making metrosexuals the new 'man standard' - but it is not out of some neediness of ensuring continuation of my genetic line or getting laid.

Eventually, I guess the end game with all these "unlock her vag" secret formulas/books/philosophies is that you 'make' yourself into something better to get better sex/love/women/laid... IMHO, theres so much more to life and the sooner we realise that we are not defined by our marriages/SO's and how much (or often) pussy we can get, the quicker we can move on to better things in life and make that whole sexual construct just a "part" of our entire makeup and not a significant one at that.

And it wouldnt have mattered that I looked like that model or Tom Cruise or Ryan Gosling or was the richest man on this thread, our WW's cheated because there was something lacking in them, not us. Women cheat on rich, successful and good looking men (and great husbands) all the time and if being on SI hasn't taught you that, it hasnt taught you much at all :)

I dont buy that noise that once a woman got sexier she D'd her handyman husband and married an investment banker. Speaks more of her holes and her neediness (and greed and selfishness and lack of values and opportunism) and less about how much or little her 'loser husband' had achieved (referenced from that Athol Kay site). I wouldnt give that investment banker a snowballs chance in hell of not being cheated on within 3 years in that fantasy scenario.

I dont deny that we all want 'better' and 'more'; and consumerism and materialism are a fact of life. But isn't that what we're all pissed about (on a larger scale) at the bankers for? That you either do it ethically and within acceptable value systems or you do it by trampling over everyone around you and destroying peoples lives (divorces and affairs are pretty damaging, just so you know). I'm sure Herod and was 'the shit' in his lifetime and got loads of pussy but guess whom we recall with greater fondness and many set up as a role model for humanity?

If anything of value has come out of this shitstorm for me is the kind of advise I got from WAL, jjct and others here on SI and also some of the material from RR @ AR (Affair Recovery). One message is "live your life as you want to (i.e. make it awesome while keeping your integrity in place) and stop over investing in M and your spouses (perceived) happiness" and the other is "find contentment and pleasure in what you have".

:)

YMMV


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 6:39 AM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I define alpha-maleness as doing the shit I want to do and being the guy I want to be.

I don't care about big trucks.
I have no interest in tinkering with the car, the central air unit, fixing the drywall or re-roofing the house.
I don't even like to go outside if I don't have to.
I don't lift weights.
I don't exercise (unless you count mowing the yard, trimming back the trees, etc.)
I don't go to bars.
I don't even drink beer very often.

To me, alpha-maleness is "Take me or leave me as I am, because I'm cool either way."

I set the standard. I set the goals. I hit my own benchmarks...or not, and then I figure out why I didn't and take responsibility for it.

I don't mind doing laundry, because a bunch of that shit is mine anyway.
I load the dishwasher at least once a day, because I can't stand dishes in the sink.
I sweep and mop the hardwood floors because I don't like walking on crunchy shit in my socks.
I cook dinner at least half the week because I like to eat the sorts of things I cook.

In other words, I handle my business because it's *my* business...and it doesn't have anything to do with sex appeal or gender roles. It's my business, so I fuckin' handle it.

And I'm also confident enough in my own skillz at interpreting the world that I don't have to waste any anxiety wondering if I'm meeting some other guy's (or chick's) standard definition of what alpha-maleness should look like. I mean, as far as I know, whoever is creating that competing standard could be a complete dumbass, so why should I put stock in his or her bit of wisdom?

Confidence in yourself. Liking what you like and not being afraid of it. Ignoring the input of idiots. Being true to who you are and who you want to be. Those things define alpha-maleness to me.

I don't want to spend time with a person who thinks I should be someone other than who I am, anyway.

(I really think that's what Kay is getting at ultimately. He's got a certain model that he feels like works best, but the core of his message seems to be about confidence, about accepting who you are, taking care of your own shit, and letting the haters hate all they want...because ultimately, they don't matter. Your life, your rules.)


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was worried about being the Masculine Man for a long time (I still am some, I won't lie) but not so much anymore. I spent a couple years training MMA with the guys I only assume everybody is talking about being ALPHARIOUS MASCULINATRON and the thing is I don't believe this conversation is about the Brontosaurus of ideas that is the ALPHARIOUS MASCULINIATRON but the Responsible Guy vs the Bad Boy.

Because all of those guys in that gym were Repsonsible Guys. Maybe I had some of them down wrong and somebody was cheating, and there were several gals there also, but generally the characteristics we seem to feel inferior to or append to What Women Want also coincide with a lot of those guys doing dishes, cooking dinner, arguing about detergents (dude a gi can get RANK) and occasionally swapping a recipe. In fact I could get a recipe talk going with those marines, retired LEO and SWAT Captains and shit a lot more readily than a beer chat. Most of those guys didn't drink much at all. Most of them didn't hunt, fish, camp, they had their jobs and a hobby or two besides MMA and then hung with their families. I think I could probably get a more interesting conversation about a MMO from those guys over anything that wasn't guns or fighting. The gun conversation refused to enter the realm of politics, also. It was a great place to find some self esteem because you went in with a bunch of people who could pick you up and twist your head off and instead of making you feel like shit for it, cheer you on as they teach you how to do it.

I think the Bad Boy thing is just the easy access version of that. You don't get a badass family man who brings crayon drawings his daughter made and post them on the gym wall overnight. That's family building shit. A killer turkey in the oven all day with those little round potatos and shit on the side. OTOH the bar badass who makes a hobby of drilling for oil wherever he can crash a pad is the microwave burrito. Hot and spicy and ready to go but is just gonna leave her full of shit because he's so loaded with chemicals its like eating a tire with ketchup on it.

B444, it's like training. Anybody can pick up a gun and become a killer, but it takes years of training and dedication to be a soldier. Some people equate the two but the gulf is vast and unfathomably deep when you scratch that surface. Shared traits do not make a single species, or something.

Sorry, need more coffee.


ďFate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.Ē

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