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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You don't touch another man's dick, and you don't touch his potato salad. It's not a hard pair of rules to remember.

I thought I could trust him. Now I know better.

Yeah Wal, you left out a third rule for humans, you don't sniff another mans butt. Doesn't seem dogs get that one either. I think there are different rules for canines.

[This message edited by aesir at 12:21 PM, August 18th (Sunday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that's pretty funny, WAL

backtracking...

Seven years ago, she would have described me as emotionally unavailable -- largely because she wasn't seeing *me*. She was was seeing the cardboard cutout of me

while I've never been described as EU, I was told I was unavailable or absent as a father and husband, wasn't really given a timeframe but I'm guessing it for the two years leading up to her affair.
...hmmmmmm....
we've talked about it, thought it was worked out, thought she had put that belief to rest...
just the other week, directly after a one sided argument, she brought it up again...my heart shrunk a little.
that fucking "cutout" of who she saw me as, uuuhgh...just.won't.die.
it didn't make me mad, but sad.
I think the driving force behind marriage is that we find someone, at last, who sees who we really are, and not just accepts it, but loves it! to find out that is not the case ...welp, kinda sucks.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


SG, innat Hercules on the cover?
Moi define essential male-ness?
Maybe later, I dun full up on speechifyin and preachifyin this mornin...
Rudyard Kipling did a pretty good job...

So Tred, if someone says; "Eww, what an ugly dick!" does the locker room get suddenly crowded then?


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yesterday I was buying a large bag of Purina dog chow at Wal-Mart and was about to check out. A woman behind me asked if I had a dog. What did she think I had, an elephant?

So, on impulse, I told her that no, I didn't have a dog, and that I was starting the Purina Diet again.

Although I probably shouldn't, because I'd ended up in the hospital last time, but that I'd lost 50 pounds before I awakened in an intensive care ward with tubes coming out of most of my orifices and IVs in both arms.

I told her that it was essentially a perfect diet and that the way that it works is to load your pants pockets with Purina nuggets and simply eat one or two every time you feel hungry and that the food is nutritionally complete so I was going to try it again. (I have to mention here that practically everyone in the line was by now enthralled with my story.)

Horrified , she asked if I ended up in intensive care because the dog food poisoned me. I told her no; I stepped off a curb to sniff an Irish Setter's ass and a car hit us both.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
mike7
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Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that's hilarious jjct!


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure I can actually describe what essential maleness is, but I am pretty sure there is a concerted effort to stamp it out, at least in the western world. It may not be organized, but it is all over.

Ads, sure thing, most advertising writers seem to not understand that there job is to sell products, instead they are trying to fulfill there dreams of being screenwriters or something. The awards go to those who make the "creative" commercials, not the ones who actually accomplish the goal of increasing sales. When they do go for sales, they are looking at the statistics that women are involved in the purchase of 80% of all new cars, and similar statistics for most other products. Ignoring that you have similar statistics for male involvement in the decision. So you get the brainy hot chick keeping her doofus out of trouble meme.

Sitcoms are built on the same meme, because when you don't portray the women in sitcoms that way, advertisers get girlcotted, ala Married With Children in the early years.

The schools seem to have this idea that the ideal male student is one that acts like a little girl, otherwise it's a discipline problem. hell, in some places Boy Scouts are not even allowed to handle knives anymore, when they are finished tying their knots they are just expected to gnaw through the excess rope or something.

When I was little, I started playing hockey with minimal equipment required, skates, helmet with a cheap plastic mouthguard, elbow pads and shinpads were all that was required for organized games, and there was always the disorganized games that required skates and a stick being played at the community center when the ice was free. Now a kid isn't even allowed on the ice until the parents have spent at least two grand on safety equipment.

Presidential candidates aren't even allowed to do a photo op that implies action without wearing a dorky looking safety helmet. Anyone remember the guy in the tank, or the one on a bike?

Apparently Germany has just passed a law allowing parents to opt out of choosing a gender on their childs birth certificate. Opt out? Choose? A generation ago, half of that country considered "hand grenade toss" to be a sport in school track meets. (I am serious about that, it was kinda like shot put or javelin, but with the potato masher style of grenades.)

Then there are the mixed messages girls are being raised with. A combination of the Oprahesque "strong independant capable woman who can do anything she wants to in life" and the Disney princess who gets rescued and somebody takes care of all her needs. When men encounter the mentality that this breeds, expecting all the rights of the first, and all the responsibilities of the second, if we so much as clear our throats in disagreement a chorus of middle aged little girls of both genders starts screaming we are neanderthals, and if it is in the workplace we may even find ourselves in the HR department or civil court.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn, double post.

[This message edited by aesir at 12:20 PM, August 18th (Sunday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't watched teevee in awhile, but it seems to me the message is that we're just dooofuses.

Yes, doofuses with big beautiful homes in leafy suburbs and smoking hot wives with IQs at least 30 points higher than the bumbling hubby.

My wife has discovered just how emotionally available I can be since D Day. Although some of my emotions have been of the volcanic variety.

We just passed 6 months, and are doing great. Not too many intense negative emotions left in me, I think I got rid of most of them fairly early.

gutpunch, just read your post from a few pages back. Congrats on making it to one year in such good shape, sounds like you and the wife are on a great path to full R. I want to be where you are 6 months from now.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 12:49 PM, August 18th (Sunday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eh, I really don't see it. I guess maybe Roadblock is kind of a pussy compared to his cartoon days in the 80s.


If we are talking Romantic Comedies or something, well, it's not like they aim the lions share of porn at women.

I read lamentations about the pussification of our kids but there are kids outside all over our neighborhood. We are just recycling the same gripes our parents and grandparents did IMO.


eta:

I dunno what the heck you guys are watching but maybe you need to quit venturing too far outside our demographic. Glee is funny and all but I.. just man, THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER COOL THINGS TO WATCH INSTEAD.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 2:48 PM, August 18th (Sunday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

slh, I don't want you post to get lost in the chatter. It was important. Hella real.

wasn't really given a timeframe

means that you're dealing with what I'm coming to realize is the "moving target" nature of accusations. It's a European thing, I think.

Isn't it odd? (back to the counterintuitive stuff)
We can be a cardboard cutout, sitting there and *still*, not moving, men are pigs, double standarded to caricature proportions, a cartoon, a doofus in a sitcom...
but when conscious men, desiring men, *actual* men try to nail it down and fix it?
Then it's a moving target. Then we missed.
A gain.

We seem to be complicit in our very own no win situation.
It's whack.
I'm pulling outta that narrative.

SG, the rock's cool. It still is fantasy, a man with verybig guns kills tons o bad guys.
I think sometimes if I could only live in that world. Where the enemies are in front of me. Shootable. Bad. Clearly deserving of death.

Come to find out, it's me, and my heart's crushed, once again. o well, another day at the beach right?


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and they're at my side.

Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks JJCT,
I appreciate your thoughts.

my mistake was thinking that if we talked about it, and I shared MY perspective, my motives, that she would understand and this new found knowledge would somehow eradicate this antiquated idea of who she thought I was.
nope.
she understands my POV. She heard me out, but this was HER version of reality(we all have one, I'm sure you know) and no amount of new information is going to change how she viewed the world. These are my words, not hers.
which is very odd, because once i learned some new info about her, you know, that she was sleezing it up with some loser, that changed my views on damn near everything! But I guess that's the nature of fucked-up-repugnant-shit, it tends to permeate and get all up under your fingernails so that everything you touch reeks, you're mindin' your own bidness when you go to scratch your nose and....WHATthaFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU

but that's a whole 'nother post...

so yeah, changing someone's past views by reminding them that you are/were a pretty darn good person....nahgonnahappen.

...changing someone's past/present/future views by ....well fuck it, you all know where I'm going with this.....


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG, the rock's cool. It still is fantasy, a man with verybig guns kills tons o bad guys.

Well yeah, but so are the bumbling doofuses.

Are we talking about the news or a BBC documentary? I got lost I think.


she understands my POV. She heard me out, but this was HER version of reality(we all have one, I'm sure you know) and no amount of new information is going to change how she viewed the world.

slh, is it that she still sees it that way or that she isn't being clear about trying to say she thinks that her feelings about that shit were still legit even with new info?

Like, still thinks you were distant and not available, or that she recognizes she felt that way but didn't try to test that reality at the time, kind of thing? Sorry if I am not making sense.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:12 PM, August 18th (Sunday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG, the rock's cool. It still is fantasy, a man with verybig guns kills tons o bad guys.

Well yeah, but so are the bumbling doofuses.

But you will also get endless harping from the media deploring one of these depictions, and a smile a nod regarding the other. You probably wouldn't notice the difference because you are a guy, and we are all bumbling doofuses, especially the Europeans.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG,
honestly, it depends on the day.
both of your points, or questions, are possible. She did let me know that this isn't something she constantly has on her mind.
But even those "sometimes"...ya know, it sucks, it aims to invalidate everything I stand for as a husband and particularly, especially, as a father.
The husband thing, yeah, I'm not an ideal husband since Dday. Hell, I don't know how she's been able to handle my uhhh...."dontgiveAshit letitburn" attitude at times.
she is a patient woman. And she hopefully understands that this transient, and underneath it all, I fuckin' love her.

But, I know what I stand for as a Dad. And "sometimes" she clearly doesn't.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SLH,

so yeah, changing someone's past views by reminding them that you are/were a pretty darn good person....nahgonnahappen.

...changing someone's past/present/future views by ....well fuck it, you all know where I'm going with this.....

Hope I do, but what does she say when you point out the very obvious fact that this is exactly what she expects of you?

Side note. 10th anniversary was Thursday, 18 months, 5 days after D-day. We talked and agreed to low-key it. Dinner out on Saturday and cards. Well that got changed. DS came home for the weekend. Grilled marinated chops, made home grown beets, green beans and sweet corn, Fresh sliced peaches for dessert. Got bored during the day and made a spaghetti sauce from scratch(all veggies from the garden, homemade tomato sauce) for them to take home. Margaritas on the deck while waiting for the food. FWW had a great time. SD came to dinner w/o SO, but brought grandson. 8 yo DS had friends over. It's all good, right?

I'm not claiming that we had the best M prior to her A. Hell, for the preceding 6 months leading up to it, I'd say hell in a handbasket. But occurrences as described as above were much more common than not.

I looked at my family together on the deck and realized the this is what I was talking about earlier when I described my M as my escape. Tis was what it was all about.

I kept quiet til after the meal and all the family had departed and had to ask FWW why she felt her A was an escape. Why turn outward for validation when there was so much here. I dunno, I don't get it. Don't think I ever will. That makes me happy.

Anyway, Cheers to one and all. Overall, a good thing.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Man I really think you guys need to stop watching the Oxygen channel.

eta:

slh

both of your points, or questions, are possible. She did let me know that this isn't something she constantly has on her mind.
But even those "sometimes"...ya know, it sucks, it aims to invalidate everything I stand for as a husband and particularly, especially, as a father.

I hear you. I think I'd be honest to goodness openly pissed about it. I can't go back to the quiet resignation of toxic misunderstandings. I think I would panic and bolt or something.

Hope that you guys work that stuff out and it sounds worse than it is.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:41 PM, August 18th (Sunday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope I do, but what does she say when you point out the very obvious fact that this is exactly what she expects of you?

I've never thought of it that way.
My opinions of people are FAR more flexible than hers, which is a good thing for her/us.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, August 18th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope that you guys work that stuff out and it sounds worse than it is.

it is not as bad as it sounds. we actually talked about it, she brought it up after reading my post, and I let her know that for me, I just have to say " it bullshit" . But that, like I said, its what she lived and believed, so its going to stick. Maybe one day it'll click for her. but if not, you know...that's just like, your opinion, man.

and to be honest, i think it has a lot do with being bipolar.
and neither of us have any idea how long/often she was manic during the years in question.
one thing we do agree on though, I did work a lot of damn hours.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, August 19th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MARK IT ZERO DONNY

It's cool you guys were able to talk about this shit. I'm sure the bipolar probably has a lot to do with it but not having lived with that particular nest of interesting times I can only offer sympathies having viewed it from a relative distance.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
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