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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well gents...I am out of here for my 3 day NO MA'AM fishing trip.

I hope and pray you all have a great weekend devoid of WW bullshit, and may your steins runneth over! I'll drink a cold one for all of you...maybe 2


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have a great weekend RB. Hope you only catch as much as you want.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need some input guys:

I have an issue about the timing for a talk with the kids. The W does not want the D, but says she understands and will go along with it.

Here is the problem, the wife takes the position that we should wait until we know exactly where we will be going before we have the talk with the kids. She says she wants to eliminate uncertainty so they will feel more secure.

Of course, one reason she wants to delay telling the kids is that it is a step toward finality. I suspect that another reason is that she fears the oldest, 17, may decide she wants to live with me.

I do think we should come to a resolution on the D issue before getting them involved. However, I think that it would be a mistake to wait until the figurative eve of me leaving before breaking this to them.

I think it would be harmful for them not to know that is coming.

Selfishly, I don't want them to perceive that I just up and quit the family with no warning. Of course, that concern is not entirely selfish -- I think that would leave a scar on them.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have no idea about that kind of situation Later but what you said makes sense. They are your kids, springing that on them last minute sounds like it would be worse than telling them what is going on and keeping them in the loop. Not sure how I would handle it in the moment though. That is a shitty place to be man.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep, it is shitty. The worst period of my life (which is no surprise I know).

Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Later, I think you should tell them as soon as possible, preferably today. You can mention that some of the details still need to be worked out. I'm sure they already sense that something's wrong. But the more time they have to get used to the idea of divorce and to process what it means, the sooner they can adjust and heal. There's going to be pain involved regardless. Because of her choices. Sorry brother.

Interesting that your wife says she does not want the D. I take the position that infidelity itself is a form of divorce, emotionally if not legally. If the couple reconciles, then the BS is choosing to enter into a new marriage with new standards and ground rules. I'm pretty proud of what my wife has done to fix herself these past 6 months, but that doesn't change the fact that she divorced me last year. As far as I'm concerned, she killed the old marriage and the anniversary date was rendered meaningless going forward. But that's ok, the "new marriage" already seems a lot better than the old marriage. It just comes with a lot of emotional baggage that has to be dealt with somehow.

The last part was a bit of a t/j, but it struck me as interesting that the person who blew up the marriage now regards it as worth saving. But we see a lot of that around here.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 4:41 PM, August 15th (Thursday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with you Sal @ infidelity as an emotional divorce.

I also go along with your advice to Later, except the because of her choices part.
Mainly, because I'm not there, and I'm not sure that wouldn't cause fireworks.
Later's saying *we* tell them - so Later, I imagine that part wouldn't go over too well?
Don't want drama - chances are, they'll remember this talk, however it goes, for the rest of their lives.
Sorry Later. Damn.
I think however you tell them, you should both be hugging them & assuring them 10 ways from Sunday it's not their fault & that they are truly loved.
Are they in counseling? If not, that would be good too.

RB, enjoy your Catching trip!


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jjct, "because of her choices" was just my observation (which makes me master of the obvious, I know) definitely not something I'd recommend saying to the kids.

But it brings up an interesting point. On one hand you don't want the kids to feel bad about either parent. Badmouthing the other parent is one of the biggest mistakes many make. On the other hand, you don't want to leave the impression that Dad is just checking out on the family. If you're too nice about it they may just conclude that dad thought he had better things to do than keep his commitment to their mother and live with them. This assumes they don't already know about the affair.

They don't call this a "shit sandwich" for nothing.

Later, I agree with your earlier comment - half the time I have no idea what is being discussed on this thread. All I know is that sometimes a character named after me kicks some serious alien ass when he's not wasting his own men with friendly fire, and that's good enough for me.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can only speak in generalities about the talk, especially when planned as *we*.
I suppose 'too nice' & 'Dad checking out' can be avoided as long as the collaborative/mutual nature of the choice to D is maintained?

In D/S, it might be a good idea to start a thread there Later - there are some experienced, heavy-hitters in there.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sure they were thinking OM would pick up the slack

My WW was telling me POSER wanted to find a place with WW and planned on me being the sugar daddy via alimony.
He wanted her to sell her vehicle after she split with me.
WW said that's when she figured he was getting to clingy and the fog started lifting.
He had a POS vehicle and rented a room in a house. She said he smoked pot all of the time.
Nice eh?


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
thinkingclear
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Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Later

I agree that you two should talk to your kids soon. They are old enough that I'd be surprised if they dont know more than you think.

I also agree that they will always remember what and how you tell them this news. It's going to be their D-day. They will wonder what did *they* do to *deserve* this.

I'd suggest that the two of you rehearse the talk so that no one is taken off guard. The message has to be that they have nothing to do with this decision and that they are loved by both of you.

I suspect that they will have questions for days, weeks and months afterwards. I'd hope that the two of you could give similar answers because they will pick up on the descrepiencies. Just like we were hyper vigilant after D-day, they will be too.

They need some time with the *family* together to process this major change. Let them have some input on where you two end up. Give them a little bit of control as their world changes forever.

Good luck and I'm so sorry you find yourself with this immense task.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 7:34 PM, August 15th (Thursday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Yakamishi
♂ Member
Member # 38230
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question to you NHBH: how much stalk should I put in "I don't remember." ?

We are 11 months out. I think she's been pretty forth coming but sometimes she just avoid it with I don't remember.


Edit: wrong acronym

[This message edited by Yakamishi at 12:17 AM, August 16th (Friday)]


Me: BH
Her: WW Mrs.yaka
Kids:4
Variouse clues to EA. WW promised it would stop.
D-Day of EA 9/13/2012 2:01PM found 2 yrs of text messages, confessed to EA
D-Day of PA: confessed on 9/22/12 11:53 PM. Worst moment of my life

Posts: 184 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Massachusetts
5454real
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Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Yakamishi. Hopefully that was a mis-type. We're the Betrayed Menz. (Yea, we know BM's just don't sound right).

To directly answer your question, a lot depends on the background of your WW. Mine has a past heavily tainted with EA(Emotional abandonment) and CSAB(Childhood sexual abuse). Her memory, especially anything to do with sex, is shit. The POSER was actually one of her earliest abusers.

How was your WW's memory prior to the A? There is some credibility to the "fog" theory IMO, but a Wayward who is truly remorseful will do the work to cut through it and find the answers. "I don't remember" just is not an acceptable answer in most cases. It's usually a dodge to prevent further embarrassment.

You're probably going to get a lot of different opinions on this, but the general response will be that she's lying.

Sorry

ETA fixt it

[This message edited by 5454real at 12:00 AM, August 16th (Friday)]


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
mike7
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Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Yakamishi. there are some great guys here who understand what you're going through. Hopefully you can find friendship and help here.


on another note. It looks like I may be headed to Afghanistan in September for a year.

Not exactly the perfect time, but I'm ready for a change. WW knows that if there are anymore issues that I will divorce her. She is sure saying and acting like she doesn't want a divorce. We'll see I guess.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Later, Sorry that you're at this stage, it's one of the toughest.

What worked in my sitch was to tell them fairly early in the process. Once the initial shock had worn off and they realized that Mom and Dad were not going to live together. I tried to involve them in as many decisions as I could to get them to have a feeling of at least some control. It really didn't help matters that I was forced to live with her for over a year while we fought a bitter custody battle.

One worry.

The W does not want the D, but says she understands and will go along with it.

Be damned sure that she does. It's one of the most cruel things a mother can do when she tells the kids that she doesn't want to D. Puts you in a hellu'va spot.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
h0peless
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Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Be damned sure that she does. It's one of the most cruel things a mother can do when she tells the kids that she doesn't want to D. Puts you in a hellu'va spot.

I can second that one. My Mom did this when my parents divorced. My dad's relationship with my oldest sister has never recovered. It doesn't help that he was balls deep in his own affair at the time but it doesn't change the fact that my mom had been fucking around with the pastor for the previous five years or so. Divorce sucks and it really fucks with kids but all four of us grew up to be functioning members of society.

I was about the same age as your daughter, by the way, and I promise you she knows a lot more than you think so please be honest with her if she asks any questions. It would also be a good idea to get them into therapy, even if they act like everything is OK.

My brother and I knew what was going on because our dad had told us about his affair and the fact that he was going to divorce Mom but I don't think that knowledge did much to soften the blow of the family divorce talk. It sucked and it was made worse by the fact that they both married the people they cheated with and we have had to deal with them ever since.

[This message edited by h0peless at 11:06 PM, August 15th (Thursday)]


Posts: 1325 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Arizona
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:06 PM, August 15th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mike7,

Stay safe brother. When do you leave?

ETA Duh

Meant early, mid or late. Got enough time to batten the hatches first. Damn, getting careless

[This message edited by 5454real at 12:04 AM, August 16th (Friday)]


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Y. So sorry you're here. You know your wife better than we do, but it would be hard for me to believe a "I don't know" or "I don't remember". Seems avoidant to me. Is she remorseful? What kind of questions is she having difficulty answering?

Later

The W does not want the D, but says she understands and will go along with it.
It really sucks that this is where it is ending up. Is she willing to do the work necessary to try R? Except for rugsweeping and denial, has she expressed any willingness to make things right?

I would not want the kids to get the message that this is your decision alone. She needs to step up and take responsibility in some form. Knowing what details to tell them will be tricky. If your D causes rumors, the kids will hear them. I'd hate for them to find out from a classmate or from a friend's mom. I'm with Sal in that they should know to some extent the effort put into trying to salvage your marriage. The two of you were put into a really difficult position that was out of your control.

Damn, it is hard to know what to tell them. I'm starting to get confused myself. Just sharing my thoughts for what they are worth.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 6:31 AM, August 16th (Friday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

later, another idea...goog
"how to tell children about divorce"
I saw @ 10,000,000 hits on one search engine.

Y - "I don't remember" is your WW's escape-the-consequences mechanism, going by her history that you post about.
She left you mere months ago, and demonstrates other avoidance and rug-sweeping tactics.

Imagine what a truly remorseful spouse would do. Is she doing that? Sorry. It appears not.
Underneath the appearance of lack of memory is the real problem.

mike - will you be able to stay in touch while you're in the sandpit?


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, August 16th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And yes, it reminds me of later's eminently quotable:

BTW, given all the, "I don't knows" and "I don't remembers" among WWs, does any else suspect that amnesia is actually a sexually transmitted disease?

followed up by:

It has me wanting to tell my wife I am leaving for no other reason than I have discovered she is a dumbass.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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