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User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The most insidious bullshit of this love bank crap is, so when wifey was getting her fill from strange cock, what was going on with the husbands 'bank

NE
And therein lies the truth. The golden nugget. The meaning of it all. The smoking gun so to speak.....
WW's love to justify and blame shift all the time that it was BH that was neglecting her in some way, shape, or form when in FACT how could she possibly be attending to him emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually when she devotes ALL of her time to OM. All of her energy to POSER. WW DID abandon us. Did not tend to us and did not care about our well being, and that includes the kids and everything else that encompasses what a marriage should be. The lying, gas lighting, deceptions, false smiles and attitudes were completely negligent. While she was swallowing someone else's load she had no regards to anything in reference to her marriage to us.
Then once busted, they knew it would eventually happen, plan A was to blame us into submission for not attending to their needs. It a farce. They took us for pansy ass fools the whole time with a heaping portion of "it's your fault"
No it's their fault. They turned their back on us. They also turned the tables.
I think many of us bought it or almost did but its right out of their playbook.
I hate to use the word victim but that's exactly what we are.
We got played.


[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 1:34 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[
bold]They did it because they wanted strange dick just like guys are blamed all the time for getting a piece of ass.[/bold]
I don't know that I necessarily agree completely with this, 444. Don't get me wrong, I see the same flaws that most everyone here sees with the love tank idea... but I don't necessarily think that our WWs were just waiting around for the perfect excuse to get some strange (or for those of us bitten by the double betrayal bug, not-so-strange) penis. I'm of the opinion that for most of our WWs, it's probably more the case that due to FOO issues, cheating existed as a viable option to try to get their emotional needs met... Aka filling their love bucket, whereas for healthier individuals that option is off table, because they have the foresight to know that it's a sucker move, and they'd be deluding themselves. Our WWs had a list of coping options available in their skill set, and though infidelity was certainly among them, I don't think that it was necessarily the first. The real problem in my estimation is that the best, healthiest options were NOT in that tool bag, because those options require critical analysis of your own feelings, as well as whether or not the feelings are accurate in the first place... I think that if there's one thing that WWs are sorely lacking, it's the ability to analyze their own feelings and say, "You know what? I'm acting like a tool."


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Along those lines, I don't think my wife will be using the line, "it wasn't about you" again anytime soon.

I went into painful detail on how neglecting me, purposefully picking senseless fights to keep me at arm's length and basically ensuring a state of "cold war" to further her A, certainly did affect me (and the kids) in many ways - before I even knew about the A.

Another line used in conjunction that I find incredibly frustrating due to its pure stupidity -- "I never wanted you to know."

WTF is that supposed to mean to me? Of course she did not want me to know.

Imagine if you discovered that a car dealer rolled back the odometer on a car that you purchased. When you confront the dealer, he looks at you pitifully and says, "I never wanted you to know."

Is this supposed to bring me comfort? She has also told me that she never thought about leaving me for him. Hell, I know that -- he is married with a herd of kids. And it would have been career suicide for both of them.

It is painfully obvious that this was never going beyond lying, sneaky, clandestine adultery.

She also told me that she never told him she loved him. So what? It would have just been a lie between liars anyway. I am more concerned about the lies she told me.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Facepunched:

Our WWs had a list of coping options available in their skill set, and though infidelity was certainly among them, I don't think that it was necessarily the first. The real problem in my estimation is that the best, healthiest options were NOT in that tool bag, because those options require critical analysis of your own feelings, as well as whether or not the feelings are accurate in the first place... I think that if there's one thing that WWs are sorely lacking, it's the ability to analyze their own feelings and say, "You know what? I'm acting like a tool."

Great post, and something I am trying to get across to the wife. Okay, even if she really has learned her lesson that adultery is not worth the price, there are reasons you decided not to go that route as a response to problems. And, there are reasons why you perceived problems that did not actually exist.

So, even if your affair was more about poor coping than it was sex, WTF are you doing about it?


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP
I stand corrected. My opinion has always been about their being broken and feel in some way they continually have to be validated in some way because of their issues and piss poor coping skills.
My point on this tangent was that the gist was they wanted it and they got it. Valuation in exchange for degrading sexual acts.
BS spouse is not only a victim but a tool for this. By pushing us away, ignoring us, giving us the cold shoulder we in turn mirror their Attitude as a response to their tactic and by the time Dday hits they point back to our behavior as part of their sick justification.
I know my WW employed this tactic. We would have a blow out based on her passive aggressiveness
IE: not taking care of her responsibilities, laundry, house keeping, dishes, etc then she would retreat to the guest bedroom to text and talk to OM.
She used me as a facilitator. Like I was unknowingly aiding and abetting her A. Shit, probably telling POSER what an asshole I was.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My point on this tangent was that the gist was they wanted it and they got it. Valuation in exchange for degrading sexual acts.
Agreed, sir. 100%.
giving us the cold shoulder we in turn mirror their Attitude as a response to their tactic and by the time Dday hits they point back to our behavior as part of their sick justification.
Also true.
Shit, probably telling POSER what an asshole I was.
Dude, my wife's A with one of my friends was almost entirely constructed on the premise that I was failing as a husband and partner. Most of their conversations at first were about me. How pathetic.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dude, my wife's A with one of my friends was almost entirely constructed on the premise that I was failing as a husband and partner. Most of their conversations at first were about me. How pathetic.

EXACTLY
Her neglecting you caused you to react to that and in turn you facilitated her conversations with OM about what an asshole you were. Alls he had to do was listen, nod, agree which she took as him understanding her. She liked it and took it as validation and bingo they are in bed.
And back to the vicious circle that it was our fault.

Saw this on FB fuck you you fucking cheaters page( great name):
"There comes a point, when it not that you don't care anymore, you just can't. "
And
"I love you but your just not worth the fight anymore"

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 3:48 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Her neglecting you caused you to react to that and in turn you facilitated her conversations with OM about what an asshole you were

More or less, yeah. I mean, pre-A I was not on track to win any "Husband of the Year Awards", but I WAS on track to win "Father Of The Year(s)"...I mean, our son had developmental delays that were readily apparent from the age of 2, which eventually turned out to be ADHD, and I was pretty much left to deal with all that by myself.Sure, my wife would go to a school meeting or therapy session if I pressed the issue, but if I didn't feel like making her go, she was more than happy to let me handle all that...because in her words "Children make me uncomfortable." At the time I didn't think anything of it (or not much of anything anyways), because I was kind of a slacker in other areas of married life (I'm looking at you, sink full of dishes)...I mean, I guess I just figured that was the division of labor in our household, and that was fine. But the sob story that POSER and err'one else was getting was of this poor, unappreciated wife whose husband didn't appreciate her and didn't realizehowluckyhewasJUSTTOHAVEHERandshecan'tleavebecause oftheirsonbutshewouldotherwiseCUZ"I'MSOUNHAPPY". Cue the violins of sympathy. Puh-leaze. Never mind that she was a raging functional alcoholic at the time, but no one knew about that because I was always taught that the inner workings of a couple's marriage was NOBODY'S FUCKING BUSINESS. I mean, if I knew at the time the picture that was being painted behind my back, I would've blown the whole situation up. Fuck that noise. I would've taken no guff. None.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:45 PM, August 4th (Sunday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A few random things:

StillGoing: Sir, your Captain America rant made it into my "Own Personal Healing Library" file on my dropbox account. It goes with me always. Also, the "Battletoads" reference made me realize that whenever I imagine kicking the shit out of POSER, it's with those giant hands and feet that came with the last punch and/or kick on Battletoads. Dude, even the MIDI sound is satisfying.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Haven't been around in a while.
Just listened again to Dr. Harley (Marriage Builders) give a speech on infidelity.

Dr. Harley points out that MOST marriages don't recover from it.

A lot of people keep living together after it, but the marriage itself is dead as a doornail.


I feel like I'm resigning myself to accept sub par.
No question about it. That's exactly what it is. Accepting something less than what marriage is supposed to be.

Personally, if I had it to do over again, I would haul ass.
Hanging in there "to please God" and "for the kids" was foolish. It didn't affect the smallest hair on God's head, and all it got my kids was a broken home to LIVE IN
rather than a solid, single parent taking care of them and
teaching them that what their mother did is WRONG

I guess every sitch is different, I have felt the same way a really long time but lately have softened somewhat, and I am actually looking hard at my fWW.
Mine has been sober 5 yrs now, and I don't think that it would have happened if I had left. She would have quit, straightened up and gotten custody of the kids, then it would have gone all to shit the very first time she had a challenge of some sort. I cannot express how much better a parent she is now. Night and day just doesn't cut it.

Sometimes I do think that was my "get out of jail free" card and I didn't take it...but in reality if you have young kids it's not like you can get away totally anyways.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
thinkingclear
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Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I certainly agree with the whole faulty love bucket analogy. It focuses on external sources of happiness, which is an easy road to resentment; especially in the context of infidelity. How many points does one get for a word of affirmation, 10 points; 20 points for a welcome home kiss and a hug; 30 points for unexpected roses; -5 points for forgetting to take out the trash. So when you look at all the destructive crap they chose to do during the affair the theory really looses traction. -1000 points for a kiss, -1,000,000 for BJ in the car, -1,000,000,000 for unprotected sex in your own house. The numbers are completely random, but the point is simple. There is no way to right that wrong. There is no way to ever *make up* with additional deposits moving forward. We are asked to accept a debt that the WW will never be able to repay. I know by my accounting my WW is trillions in the whole.

The other issue with the love bank analogy is the same things that FP pointed out with their coping skill deficiencies. We never had the ability to *fill her up* in the first place because her tank resembles a colander. It is full of wholes and deficiencies stemming from FOO issues and immature coping.

We had another rough weekend, but it actually ended up with us making some progress. It was a painful process. She came clean on many things and continues to take responsibility. She confessed that in her mind the A never ended until recently. They physically weren’t together but in her mind she was still very much *in love* with POSER. The threats to leave if she broke NC meant nothing to her. She rationalized breaking NC with him because *he* contacted *her*. She agrees that her thinking was shameful and that it took her a long time to get her head *in the right place*. She told me the A was all about the emotional connection. She was addicted to how he made her feel. She said the sex was *mediocre*. She says she hates herself for *going there*. She is mad at herself. She is mad a POSER. In my opinion she still has much work to do the tease out more of the real why’s and get to indifference about POSER, but it is demonstrating some real progress. I told her that I was torn by trying to reconnect with the one person that has let me down the most in my life. I told her I was concerned that either she didn’t have the strength to do her part of R and that I might not be able to accept what she was willing to give. I told her that the sight of her might at one moment lead to a fond thought of her and a moment later repulse me. We were both brutally honest. She didn’t take it well at first.

She felt that we should D if I wasn’t sure how I felt about her. I told her fine if that is what she wants; I’m not talking her out of it. She found it hard to understand that just because a thought crossed my mind that it didn’t mean I would necessarily act on it. I may think about D and moving on, but I still make sure it is really what I want to do before I choose to do it. The self-control aspect she found puzzling. Figures, huh?

I found enough reassurance that she wants to become and is working towards becoming a safe partner that for now I will continue to work with her. I know I get discouraged. This is a pile of crap. I was literally looking forward to moving on, but the issue continues to be my son. My WW has a ton of baggage, a debt she cannot repay and enough issues to work on to keep her busy for a lifetime, BUT unfortunately she also has 50% custody of our 3 year old if D comes into play. She wants to make amends. She displays minimal remorse but remorse non-the less. For now I chose to stay. She knows the uphill battle that lays before us and she also choses to stay. I may have a lot not to like about her past choices, but that choice in of itself means something to me.


[This message edited by thinkingclear at 8:28 AM, August 5th (Monday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She felt that we should D if I wasn’t sure how I felt about her. I told her fine if that is what she wants; I’m not talking her out of it. She found it hard to understand that just because a thought crossed my mind that it didn’t mean I would necessarily act on it. I may think about D and moving on, but I still make sure it is really what I want to do before I choose to do it. The self-control aspect she found puzzling. Figures, huh?

This right here, TC. I mean, there's been times during this whole stupid thing (not wearing my vocabulary hat this morning, sorry) where my wife was fawning over me, and mentally I'm like *shrug*...."I'm trying to catch up on 'Breaking Bad'."
I mean, if I look visibly upset, my wife will ask me what's wrong.....and if I tell her what's in my head, or explain something she did that I was unhappy about, she goes to the "If I make you so mad, I don't understand why you stay with me" well. She doesn't seem to understand the contrast between a passing, fleeting feeling that *you know* is temporary and a permanent change in my view on things. Or maybe she understands the concept as an abstract idea, but not as something that hits home for her? I don't know.
Have there been times where I think about divorce? Sure. But thinking about it in terms of wondering how it'd all sort itself out is not the same as actually wanting to do it or knowing that I want to do it, are two different animals. Right now it's just my mind wandering, thinking *gasp* about the potential consequences of my actions. I'm not actively trying to convince myself not to divorce, I just haven't reached a place where I know that it's something I want to do for sure....and I'd make damn sure that it's what I wanted before jumping in feet first.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, with regards to Walter White from 'Breaking Bad'...I think he's the perfect cautionary tale for us B-Menz....someone who had it up to here with life's bullshit, and just decided to start grabbing life by the the fucking balls, but then got addicted to the intoxicating power of...well, power.....and stopped seeing other people as people and more as roadblocks on his way to his selfish desires. He at first uses his cancer and everything else as a reason to blow it all up and take what he wants from life *finally*....but is unable to stop himself....he lets his situation and choices rob him of his compassion and humanity....and that's really what we're all fighting against on some level here...right? Or maybe I'm full of shit.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
aesir
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Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TC, FP, you have to understand that while love is a commitment for some people, for others it is just a feeling. Easier concept to relate to if you are in the commitment category because you have also felt the feelings... much more difficult for the people in the feeling category, as they have never experienced the commitment.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Later
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Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I told her that the sight of her might at one moment lead to a fond thought of her and a moment later repulse me. We were both brutally honest. She didn’t take it well at first.

She felt that we should D if I wasn’t sure how I felt about her.

"They"(sorry if I am projecting my situation too much) do seem to struggle with this. What they want this to entail is a simple decision.

They want you to decide to stay, and they want that to mean forgiving and forgetting.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
thinkingclear
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Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

love is a commitment for some people, for others it is just a feeling

Aesir, good point and I would agree. Personally I'd like both. I have enough commitment to continue to work on R. The problem is magnified because my wife is learning to live without the positive mirroring for the first time. She knows that I don't feel in *love* with her right now and in turn she mirrors that back to me. She acts cold and distant. It is a viscous cycle. She needs my love to display love back. Personally I can tolerate the moments of awkward silence and tension. It drives her crazy and she immediately goes into defensive mode planning how and when D will go down.

Later is so correct. My WW wants me to decide if I want to stay and move on from the past or not. She is starting to understand that if we stay married it is going to take a lot of work. I agree at some point that is what I want as well, but we are far from working through and understanding the past to move on yet.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 10:25 AM, August 5th (Monday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"If I make you so mad, I don't understand why you stay with me"

I was told something similar, FP. IMO it's just a tactic designed to distract from an uncomfortable conversation topic by putting you on the defensive. My response was "because we are married, and I take my commitments seriously."

Love the Walter White references. I can't wait until the series starts on Sunday. In about 9 weeks I'll be mourning the end of one of the great shows of all time.

Walter is a fellow BM, by the way.

ETA: I've been guilty of using the same tactic. "If you wanted someone else that badly, why would you stay with me?" "If I'm someone you can betray so often and easily..." yada yada yada.

As best I can figure, it's a tactic designed to gauge the other spouse's commitment level. Kind of a high school-ish tactic, really.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 10:42 AM, August 5th (Monday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1028 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Walter is a fellow BM, by the way.

Huell. None of us have a Huell in our lives. His was even hired by his WW.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7rXeDArhg0

Skyler White's taste in AP greatly exceeds my WW's.

I need to call Saul Goodman and see if he can spare Huell's services for a day or two.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1028 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, August 5th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hah, I know all too well that WW is a BM. I have been watching old episodes -- and fast forwarding the Skyler scenes.

BTW, my wife told me she would go to counseling ifwe are going to stay together. Uh, well that's the goal of counseling but I can't promise that showing up is going to be enough. At some point she has to take on some risk too. But, the simple fact is she will not pay any price greater than what is absolutely demanded. And quite frankly, I am not sure that attitude in and of itself is not a deal breaker.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
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