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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 12
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, July 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a new job starting Monday that I went out and got.

Me too! This is looking to be very helpful in my healing, methinks. I, my wife, and POSER all worked together...and now I am transitioning to a new place of employment that doesn't have all the ghosts associated with 8+ years of history.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, July 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's a righteous purge. Good for the soul. D-Day #2: Everyone should have one.

😀

Wish I could quote it in the quotes thread but I fear it'll be insensitive to many BSs if taken out of context.

On another note, I implore all the Menz to check out uo's post called consequences out in wayward if you haven't yet. I feel it's a monumental thread for those of us still festering in our suffering. I'm in awe of some of the fWSs we have here on SI, specially the wemmenz.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, July 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There there slh, we're on page 2 now. You'll soon forget those women on page 1.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
stilllovingher
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Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, July 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wheeew...I can fart again!


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, July 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well damn! didn't mean to clear the room!


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is an important thread. We all choose our reactions and should own them. That's why I'm always saying do what you need to do within the bounds of your own conscience.

The unspoken caveat is don't let your spouse tell you you're doing it wrong, not healing in the "right" way or whatever the fuck yours might say to keep you in check. This is your journey and you get to set your own boundaries -- because you're the one who owns the consequences.

One of the great messages UO has brought out of her process is "don't do shit that damages yourself." We should all heed that message. But you get to decide what is processing, what is detaching, what is wallowing, and what is self-destructive. You get to decide how high the price is that you want to pay to achieve your goals -- because you get to pick the goals, too.

We're not trapped by the circumstances of our lives. We always have choices. We will always heal and overcome. Always. We just talk ourselves out of it sometimes because we can't imagine what the future beyond the one we've imagined might look like.

The Yoda pics on the previous page are apropos, as is the Joseph Campbell material. This is important shit, because people are sheep. They want to impose their myths on you. They want you to forget you have your own story and accept the role they've written for you in theirs. That should sound familiar: your WW did it with the marital re-write and her "I didn't know you cared so much" bullshit. She was living out her "princess in need of rescue via Prince Charming's dick" myth. She wrote you as the villain. Now she wants to re-write you into something else.

But it's not her myth. It's yours, and she's just a bit player.

When you get it right, the shared myth-making of marriage is a beautiful thing. Most of us, when we arrive here, aren't writing beautiful shared stories. There's a time for that, but not until you've got a partner worthy of sharing that myth with.

I believe you'll know when it's time for that, because before we were blindsided, most of us were pretty healthy and self-aware dudes. Your fundamental self-consciousness hasn't been destroyed, just knocked off its axis for a bit. You'll recover, because even though it feels like it, this damage is not forever shit. Anyone who wants to rush you into healing or tell you how you should handle your shit is pushing their own agenda -- their own myth that says IC will be the magic bullet, or more quality time, or going to church more.

They want you safe for them, not free to make your own choices. Don't get me wrong: when marriage works, you ARE safe for one another, but not for a reason rooted in one or the other of you getting your shit together. Me telling you to get your shit together is about control, not boundaries. Boundaries are what I want in my life; the elements I accept in my myth-making.

The Fisher King had a grievous wound to his dick that wouldn't heal, and while it festered, his kingdom withered. I wonder why that story doesn't end with the king's wife or therapist telling him it's been two years, and he should just be over it already and go the fuck back to work?

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 12:12 AM, July 25th (Thursday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
5454real
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Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:19 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the great messages UO has brought out of her process is "don't do shit that damages yourself." We should all heed that message. But you get to decide what is processing, what is detaching, what is wallowing, and what is self-destructive. You get to decide how high the price is that you want to pay to achieve your goals -- because you get to pick the goals, too.
When you get it right, the shared myth-making of marriage is a beautiful thing. Most of us, when we arrive here, aren't writing beautiful shared stories. There's a time for that, but not until you've got a partner worthy of sharing that myth with.

Ok WWS. Kudos to UO as well.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
thinkingclear
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Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred - I can certainly understand your situation. The reason I ended up here was because my WW broke NC at 13 months. At the time I thought we were doing pretty well. I was starting to accept the new reality of my life. In reality, neither of us were doing well. We were rugsweeping experts.

Her breaking NC hit me hard. Like WAL said, I wasn't prepared on DDay#1 but that event set off a 'you have got to be kidding me' process that is yet to reach full force. This is largely because in my mind it took a blatantly destructive and unbelievably selfish thought process on her part to knowingly put me through even more pain after 'working' on our M for a year under awful conditions. At that moment I knew that my feelings meant nothing to her (slow learner I guess).

Their exchange seemed rather lame. POSER asked her opinion on his back MRI and she gave it. No big deal she said. No emotion she said. You're over reacting she said. Bullshit I said. I told her that if she couldn't see how damaging this was to me and our M, I wasn't sure why I was choosing to stay. The action itself was bad enough but the minimizing was even worse. So very destructive.

For some reason the breaking of NC has been harder on me to understand and come to grips with than the A itself. To me it's kinda simple. If she wants him she can have him. I'm not here to be option#2. This one event has lead to many more positive changes in me when compared to DDay#1. I've detached completely.

She has finally shown signs of life. Remorse, compassion and taking full responsibility are now being displayed. To be honest it is making me even more angry. Why now? Why are you finally starting to get it? I'm almost checked out at this point. It wasn't the A itself, although it took me awhile to stop suppressing my emotions and start processing them, it has been the lack of remorse, blame shifting and breaking of NC that has pushed me to the very edge.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 8:41 AM, July 25th (Thursday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Srsly, not trying to call anybody out or anything, just trying to save misunderstandings and hurt feelings. We've lost three or four new guys on the Menz Thread over the years because of flags and butt-hurt feelings, so a reminder of the site polices as bro-to-bro "rules that keep us all safe" vs. "oooooh, ur in trouble" is probably a good idea from time to time.

Basicly, I'm selfish. I don't want to lose any of you guys.

Well, just for the record, I never wanted to be a part of this fucking club in the first place. I wanted to be a part of the, "men adored and honored by their wives who treat them to steak and BJ's everyday club." At the very least, I wanted to be a part of the "men whose wives who comply with the minimum requirements of wedding vows" club.

BTW, given all the, "I don't knows" and "I don't remembers" among WWs, does any else suspect that amnesia is actually a sexually transmitted disease? It has me wanting to tell my wife I am leaving for no other reason than I have discovered she is a dumbass.

Oh -- and I understand the reasoning behind the rules and agree with them. Lord knows if my wife ever bothered to post here I would to see her ranoft by a lynch mob.

[This message edited by Later at 8:44 AM, July 25th (Thursday)]


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It has me wanting to tell my wife I am leaving for no other reason than I have discovered she is a dumbass.

This ^^^...


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW, given all the, "I don't knows" and "I don't remembers" among WWs, does any else suspect that amnesia is actually a sexually transmitted disease? It has me wanting to tell my wife I am leaving for no other reason than I have discovered she is a dumbass.

Damn near 6 yrs later and that is still what sticks in my throat. She can remember any misdoing of mine from the last 20 fucking yrs but cannot remember texts nor what actually happened w/OMM.

And I still think of leaving-mine got laid off recently and I see less value in her now that she is unemployed...might be a good time to get out-and I feel like a shit for even thinking like that, but still do.
Got two kids to feed/clothe etc.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For too long I have allowed myself to coast along and allow life to come to me rather than going out and getting it. Instead of having ideas about what I want and some places where I want to go, both physically and metaphorically, I let it happen. I'm starting to have a life that's something that I want rather than just something that happens.

This.

We're not trapped by the circumstances of our lives. We always have choices. We will always heal and overcome. Always. We just talk ourselves out of it sometimes because we can't imagine what the future beyond the one we've imagined might look like.

And this.

Fear of the unknown. The pain we know is not as scary as the pain we have yet to experience. But the "comfortable" pain can keep us in limbo.

This house and this marriage feel like a cage. It's a nice cage with air conditioning in the summer and heat in the winter. There's TV, internet, music, food, drink, and occasionally even sex but it's still a cage.

This brings to mind a short conversation between the characters Aragorn and Eowyn in 'The Two Towers.'

"I fear neither death nor pain."
"What do you fear my lady?"
"A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire."


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Onan, your tagline, I got to hear that one. "I want to have sex, just not with you." Man, that one sucked. One of those things that seems indelible.

Somewhat related because I can never shut my fucking mouth and avoid tangentially related bullshit, I been thinking about Yoda. Yoda is not a good source of advice, IMO. I mean, he's got some good lines - do or do not, there is no try, right? - but a man can build himself a prison outta anecdotes and epiphanies.

Luke finds Yoda after Ben is killed, directed to him by Ben. The little dude is hanging out in a swamp. Basically, Yoda ran away and hid and gave up. He didn't even want to train Luke, calling out the same shit they called Anakin on - too old, too much anger, wants adventure and shit. Yoda retreated to this swamp to judge, criticize and finally when someone has the balls to show up and ask to be trained, tells him he's a fuckup and because he doesn't *believe* he is going to fail.

Unlearn what you have learned, let go of the fear of losing things - it's the other extreme, IMO. Letting that shit go means letting go of your humanity. I mean, Kenobi made some stupid comments SIIIIIITH ABSOLUUUUUTE and not the vodak, but at least he admits his fallibility and even goes so far as to say that maybe lying about Pop Vader was wrong.

Kenobi was a crazy old wizard out in a desert but he was out there looking to change shit up. When he found Luke he didn't just give him a map and a magic sword and say "Destiny lieth onward, doofball" he got his old ass into a bar and then on a ship and fought one of the baddest fucking villains ever, THEN turned his ass into a ghost that could hang around and bitch Luke out now and then. the point is, Kenobi involved himself. Yoda just said fuck this, the galaxy can go eat a dick while I play lesser muppet in a monsterswamp.

Yoda is the alter ego of Vader. He went too far down to the other extreme. There's strength in them both, wisdom in them both, but even Vader in the end breaks his own cycle of Lets Make This Shit Worse. I mean he's never going to be able to make right killing a room full of trusting kids, but he tries to do the obviously right thing before he dies. Yoda stays stuck on his swamp, making excuses even into his death speech - "When 900 years old you are, look as good you will not, mm?" Yeah, but Kenobi had his old ass out in a desert.

The point is that Yoda gave up. He dumped everything he had into his ideology, and made it more important than the galaxy he was supposed to be connected to. The Sith won just as much from the apathy of a few great minds as they did from careful planning and brand name Force vodka.

Luke was a whiny, bitchy, stupid kid but he was the hero because even though everyone told him he was whiny, bitchy, stupid and naive he kept throwing himself at it. He made his ideals serve the people he loved, unlike Vader and Yoda who made the people they loved serve the ideals they espoused. Kenobi was the path Luke followed because when faced with the choice of ideals or loved ones, Kenobi went Super Saiyan Forceghost - he picked the people he loved over letting go of the fear of their loss. You could say that letting go of the fear of death is there also, but honestly, no fucking hero in his right mind goes out on an adventure thinking "Hey man, dying a heroic death would suck" - the harder part is sticking around to face all your fuckups. In his way, Kenobi did do the Jedi thing - he let go of the responsibility of being Jedi, making sure there were still Jedi, making sure the bad guys got their asses kicked and passed it on to the whiny, naive dork.

Anger, fear, hatred, they lead to the dark side, but they lead there when they're given free reign. Suppressing them and killing them entirely kills the person inside, and then who the fuck cares what you are, Jedi, Sith, blah. Yoda was just as bad as Vader in his own way - in fact, Luke might have benefited more from never visiting him at all. Even Yoda admits at his end that Luke learned all he needed, yet he never admits his own error - that Luke should have let Han and Leia die, even though Leia was the other Skywalker. Ben, however:

"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

I don't blame you for being angry. If I was wrong in what I did, it certainly wouldn't have been for the first time. You see, what happened to your father was my fault."

There are some words to remember: many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Sorry, sorry, carry on.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG,

Give me a second on this one. Trying to figure out if you subtly are calling me a whiny, bitchy, stupid kid. (He's quite clever, don't put it past him)


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
WakingFromADream
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Member # 33934
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG, the exposition on Star Wars (drink?) is right on course. Lucas supposedly drew directly from the ideas of Campbell when creating the mythos of the Star Wars (drink?) universe. In this case you are dealing with archetypes that help to drive, guide, and simplify the storyline as opposed to real life where things are more complicated. Anakin/Vader with the rise, fall, and final absolution contrasted to Luke flying between the extremes and trying to do the right thing guided by his own convictions rather than those of others.


On a totally different topic, there is a Menz thread drinking game isn't there? Drink whenever Star Wars, Fallout, or the clock are mentioned?


Me(35) XWW(36) DS(7) DD 11/16/11 EA(PA?) M 11y D 9/3/13

Don't make anyone a priority when you are only an option.


Posts: 1135 | Registered: Nov 2011
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh shit the clock! Looks like we forgot to pack it when we moved again...

(BTW - Star Wars, Fallout)


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There should be a drinking game for discussions with a WW. Take a drink upon hearing:

I thought the M was dead;

The word "but";

I never thought it would hurt you;

Yeah, but this is all you want to talk about;

It was never about the sex;

Mistake;

... ah hell, that's enough for alcohol poisoning.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

... ah hell, that's enough for alcohol poisoning.

It would be certain death if you included "I don't remember" or variations of it.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nah Tred, I'm saying you are the hero and the rest of those assholes are wrong about you.

Since Fallout keeps popping up, anyone tried Project Brazil? been meaning to but I got pulled back into RAGE and obsessing over Metro 2033/Last Light.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Later, you made the quotes thread, actually, I think I have to go back and add another... Tag, you're it.


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