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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 12
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I"m struck by the drama, the chaos, the confusion, the manipulation going on here. Life never seems peaceful with a NPD.

It isn't. And if it is, it's when the NPD is absent. NPD's thrive on the drama, the chaos, the confusion and the manipulation. And if there is not enough going on to suit them, they create more. Peace and tranquility are completely foreign to an NPD. It's as if they fear it, like a vampire fearing daylight.

Can you really walk away with dignity from a NPD? Mine (and I see it over and over again here) has done his best to destroy me. He scares me. Am I a coward? I don't know. I think I need to be scared. He's scary.

I cannot say that your dignity will be in tact at the moment you walk away. It's a work in progress. You will likely feel as if your self esteem has been through a shredder.

NPD's always do their best to destroy their victims. In the beginning they build us up to the point of us believing we have met the perfect mate. Then they start to pick away at us. Subtle at first, yet personal. We (wanting to please our mate) make adjustments because it's not that big of a thing. But pretty soon nothing we do is right or good enough. We begin to feel worthless. And the NPD doesn't miss an opportunity to remind us of this either.

Then the violence begins. He may not haul off and punch you in the mouth. Most likely he hasn't. But he is ALWAYS showing you what he is capable of doing to you.

Much like what Can's STBXNPDH did when he completely destroyed her studio. I would guess that was to show her what he could do to her.

NPD's can be very, very scary. They WANT us to be afraid of them. And some of them are dangerous. However, many more are cowards. They have an intense need to keep us in line and where they want us, IN THEIR CONTROL. But NPD's have fear too. Fear of exposure.

My XNPDH was violent and crazy. And I felt that if I stayed with him and continued to tolerate his abuse, that would make me a coward. Leaving would make me strong. (or throwing him out) It was the most difficult thing I have ever done. I was at the most vulnerable, emotional unhealthy point in my entire life, yet I was entering into a phase of my life where I had to be the strongest I had ever been. It was tough.

I knew that mine would lose his mind and his violence would escallate. So I involved the police and the courts right away. When I filed for divorce, I also filed for a protection order which prevented him from EVRR coming back to the house. And every single time I saw him anywhere near me or the house, I called the police and had him arrested for violating the PO.

I went complete and total NC. I never spoke to him again. Like all of you, I was very, very afraid. I was sure he was going to "talk" his way out of everything in court because he was so convincing, etc. I will never forget our first hearing when he insisted on speaking to the judge. It had been quite awhile since he was thrown out and I was paranoid about the NC. I thought I would feel better if I had some insight on what he might say. I was literally shaking in my shoes. He began spewing his lies and they were so OBVIOUS! I remember just being completely SHOCKED at his ability and ease to lie under oath. The lies he was telling were easily disputed by documents provided by my attorney. I didn't have to say a word. It was unbelievable. That was an eye opener for me.

My fear quickly shifted to shame and embarrassment for being swindled by this creep. I adopted the attitude to treat him as I would treat any other criminal off the street who was threatening me. I realized that I never knew this person I married. I married an illusion created by a con man. The con man is a criminal and will be treated as such. He went to jail each and every time I saw him. He eventually got tired of that.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 9:04 AM, February 10th (Monday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The issue we have with being afraid, we've been trained to fear the NPD, but also to listen to them like thaw speak the truth. We have been trained to be very in tune with their body language, voice inflection, eye, mouth movements, jaw clench, shoulders tightening etc. I got so good at reading his body, I stopped listening to my own!

He COUNTS on this! By staying NC (or as close to it as you can get) you start to detox from putting him first and you start to hear your own intuition. The first emotions are the most important to listen to-they have to do with safety.

You think your going crazy, and your first reaction is to talk yourself out of that space. " it isn't so bad, I shouldn't have ____ it mad him mad. How could I be with someone as bad as he is? ". It's putting all the blame on you! It isn't you!!!!!!!

You were lied to. He presented a false personality-like an actor does in a play. You were in a prop in act 2 to his starring role.

When I started seeing my life in 2 dimensions-the stage version and the real life version, I could start to work (manipulate) situations to my advantage. That advantage was to keep my kids and I safe even if it was just to decrease the drama.

Hope this helps.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4021 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
FindMyselfAgain
♀ Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello tribe. Thank you for the welcome, though I have been resisting acceptance of the reality of my situation. I have been avoiding this place where I know logically I belong; it is just very hard for me to come to terms with.

I have so much going on in my head, there is so much that is starting to make sense in a weird, twisted way. I am absolutely exhausted and overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of abuse and manipulation that I am now realizing has been such an integrated part of our relationship.

Reflecting back on everything...I am astounded that I am still here, meaning both in the same house as him and even alive. I fear nothing now, for I have lived a life that should have broken me beyond repair. Yet here I stand, as strong as ever. It's just that I never saw my strength for what it was...

I need to share, to reach out, to listen and learn to accept support instead of trying to deal with crazy all alone. Thank you all for providing me a safe place to start this new journey.

I want to read through the entire thread, and go back and read through earlier threads too. This is all so...well, hard doesn't even come close to relaying the magnitude of what it is like...but you all know this already.

I have what is probably going to seem like a stupid question considering everything else associated with going through this, but here goes:

Is it normal for a NPD to want you most (be most turned on) directly after causing deep emotional or sometimes (minor) physical damage and trauma? Seems to me he has always been ready to be his most "loving" after intentionally inflicting serious pain. Is this a common thing?

Again, thank you for being here. I really tried to convince myself I don't belong here. Finally accepting that I really do.

(((Hugs))) to all who can use them today.


DDay: October 7, 2011

Posts: 111 | Registered: Sep 2012
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so hard to realize that this was my life. It was all a lie, all of it.

As I read your stories and the others I have found by googling detaching from a narcissist, it is so familiar, it was my life, it is starting to make a very twisted and convoluted kind of sense.

He treated me like a princess, helped me when I did not ask for it. He encouraged my art, praised it when no one else ever had. He seemed to build up every part of me that was shaky.

When the abuse started, yes, I blamed myself. He was so wonderful to me, loved me so much, it must be something I am doing wrong.

It started as little things. I can change that it is not very important, I won't do that again, I love him and want to make him happy.

What eventually happened was everything I did was wrong, it was ever changing, constantly, the list just grew and grew until I was afraid to speak.

I see that I was trying to regain that love. The problem being that love never existed. I was repeating a lot of the same things I learned as a child. Be good, be quiet, be sweet, give, give, give and don't ever ask for anything, don't ever expect. Working so hard for that love that could never be attained.

Now, I am not a child. Now I can protect myself. The hardest part is hanging on to the value of self. Not letting the negative self talk take over. Rewriting the messages. It seems it has to be very deliberate, very conscious, the ingrained messages occur so automatically.

This is exhausting.


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013

attempted R, it was all a lie

divorcing


Posts: 1092 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
WoundedOpus
♀ Member
Member # 39521
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a bunch of stuff I need to comment on and share, but I NEED to put these two book recommendations on here before I forget again! If you haven't already, you must read these ASAP -

Women Who Love Too Much, Robin Norwood
In Sheeps Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulayive People, George Simon, Jr.

OMG, both of these are helping me understand more than anything else!

You can read a bunch of Simon's articles first at manipulative-people.com. Sad to say he does a great job at describing my H


Me: BW 37
Him: WH 38
(DDay: 2/2008)
13 years, 5 kids...Six years of Limbo

“I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I have just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well." ~ Diane Ackerman


Posts: 178 | Registered: Jun 2013
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If he's like mine, he never thought you'd have the strength that you do. He's got to be running scared. You are confusing him.

He NEVER thought I would survive this. He thought I would roll over, give up, crumble. Beg? I don't think Stretch is running scared. But he doesn't like to lose. Not being able to destroy me completely was losing. So he quit trying to destroy me. Now, it is important to note: I didn't fight back. I just refused to whimper and die. I did what needed doing, putting one foot in front of the other, marched my way into single parenthood all on my own. I showed strength in surviving, not in direct confrontation which would not have been acceptable!!

It did feel like giving up. It did feel unfair and unjust. I wanted to retaliate and strike back and lash out verbally. It was damn hard to be quiet, appear meek, and quietly just walk away. Think of it like a game of cat and mouse. Be a really really smart mouse.

I do think the NPD will suggest a great deal of violence in some way to create fear. I have said before that I believe Stretch was capable of following through. But only if he "reasonably" believed he could get away with it.

I did just what sadtoo did. I made it public and court documented that I feared him. I got the RO. I reported the breaking and entering. I documented in the courts the verbal threats. He successfully fought the RO and won. BUT... the word was out. Interestingly, within 48 hours of the dismissed RO, he broke in. This was treated more seriously by the courts and by Stretch's own L because of the previous action filed by me. It isn't always a win that takes the day.


Is it normal for a NPD to want you most (be most turned on) directly after causing deep emotional or sometimes (minor) physical damage and trauma? Seems to me he has always been ready to be his most "loving" after intentionally inflicting serious pain. Is this a common thing?

Yes. He would get an erection and want to have sex whenever I was emotionally destroyed. I could have just vomited from crying so hard and he would be aroused!! I have mentioned that on this thread before. If the NPD "gets off" on the power they hold, then it seems to follow. It bothers me more than any other memory.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5300 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FindMyselfAgain,

I just read your post from today. We must have posted at the exact same time.

I read yours just now and for a minute, I thought it was mine. I had to look at the user name.

The first few thoughts were so similar.

It makes me see that we are struggling with the same sense of trying to make sense? Disbelief? but believing all at the same time.

Just though I would point that out to you. We are not alone.


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013

attempted R, it was all a lie

divorcing


Posts: 1092 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can: I can relate to your whole post. WOW! I have been reading about the cycle of emotional abuse: the abuse and then the "honeymoon phase". You are treated so well during that honeymoon phase, that it's almost an addiction to someone like me who was so emotionally starved. Then, whatever sets them off, the abuse starts. For me, it was usually he did something hurtful, I'd call him on it, and then the silent treatment, insidious sly hurtful remarks, the implied threats of withdrawing love or separation, etc. When I would try to talk to him about it, he started in on how I was the one who is always on him, telling him what to do, how I was the one who was hurting the relationship on and on until I was in tears and then I was the one who was apologizing. He would take his time to "forgive" me and then be all nice and sweet again. I'm realizing as I'm writing this, that the things he would do that were hurtful, that I let go until I couldn't take it anymore, were things I told him about before. Things he seemed to purposely do to get me upset in the first place!

Manipulation!

I am so scared right now because I'm planning on my exit.

I know he's a coward deep down, or just perhaps as another poster said, that he is afraid of his reputation.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 6:20 PM, February 10th (Monday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone. Each post make perfectly good sense, and puts into words what I've experienced - or what I'm experiencing right now.

Compartmented, Can, Care, and everyone. Thank you. I live to fight another day. Or month. Or year.


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
eyesrnowopen
♀ Member
Member # 39055
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has anyone on here learned to live with thier narc?

I have been on every board from just found out to divorcing. Since he has admittedly had more than one women and admitted to masterbation and ego stroking, I was even on SA.
Now I am confident that this is where I belong. I have read all the posts and clearly understand the implications. Few seem to have made it through R.

We have been in IC and MC. We have been seperated and close to D but it is on hold. My profile has the complete story. What I am struggling with is how to stay married, set boundaries and get my needs met. He is not exactly remorseful or truthful. My MC says I may never get those and will decide how much I need to move forward. She says I can set boundaries and not accept bad treatment, lies. or bad behaviors. I can change my reaction to him. As a result he will either escalate or back down.

I have taken her advise and he has changed. I have become calm, I make requests and am less demanding, I don't show anger but assertion. He has responded and is respectful and backs down.

This is f***ing exhausting, Is this going to be my life?? My MC says we need to change my responses then his behavior will change and then we clear the way to see how empathetic he is capable of getting. She never dx him as a narc but this is basically what she is saying.

I guess this is better than D right now because at least he is not out to destroy me and I feel like I can maintain some control of the situation for the kids sake. Any advice is appreciated.


This is the work within, having control over the outcome of our lives. Robert Bly refers to this as “Warrior work.” A warrior fights for a cause, something he believes in. As opposed to a soldier who merely fights for control – power or profit.

Posts: 82 | Registered: Apr 2013
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can,

The rewriting his words is the hardest part for me.

I don't need to speak to him-I know what he would say and my brain had his side of the conversation already for me to hear. It took retraining my brain by reminding myself that he is a liar. Every time my brain started parroting him I would yell that he's a liar. Just because he says it, doesn't mean it's the truth, especially when he lies.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4021 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
shakeitoff
♀ New Member
Member # 42224
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am playing a game of wait and see. He has orders to leave in April. I will be able to think clearly, move freely and live without fear. I have told him I want to stay til the end of the kids school year. I can then file for divorce since he won't willingly sign an agreement. He claims he is trying to win me back.. his attempts are underwhelming. Do you think it will set him off if I start to see a counselor? I am dying for someone to talk to but am so afraid they will tip him off to my plans. I don't want my kids to witness anymore of his outbursts and his going 6 hours away will nearly guarantee our safety (I fucking hope so anyway). How do I make it sound like I want to see someone and it will somehow benefit him? I have found if I can spin anything to his benefit hes generally most agreeable.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back..

Posts: 14 | Registered: Jan 2014
Chippednotbroken
♀ Member
Member # 40170
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shake, I told mine that I was going to an IC so she could help me with depression so that I wasn't so mean to him all the time. Complete crap obviously but made him think it was to work out my issues and what I'd do wrong.
Caregiver, thanks for saying the sexual thing I didn't realize that's what went on till I read your post.


Me BS 32
STBXH 34
3 kids
Divorcing, though he isn't on board.
DDay July 13'

Posts: 241 | Registered: Aug 2013
FindMyselfAgain
♀ Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is this that I'm feeling now? Relief? An awareness that I'm not as crazy as he had me believing? Or just the comfort of seeing that others have been through similar trials and are capable of not only getting through the craziness, but able to truly live again?

I have been reading so much that I really don't WANT to hear; but grateful for all that share their stories, because it's what I NEED to hear. I am not alone, no matter how alone I feel. There is always someone (many someone's) who has experienced something similar, that understands the way I feel. It breaks my heart, but is a comfort all the same.

Tonight, I am safe to cry without him seeing or knowing. Tonight I weep for all who dare not, for the repercussions are so much more painful. Tonight my tears contain all the lies I never knew I was living.

Tonight I cry because I need to. Tomorrow I will embrace my strength again. But tonight...tonight I cry.


DDay: October 7, 2011

Posts: 111 | Registered: Sep 2012
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eyesrnowopen,

This is f***ing exhausting, Is this going to be my life?? My MC says we need to change my responses then his behavior will change and then we clear the way to see how empathetic he is capable of getting.

I read these words and thought sadly, "Yes, this is going to be your life." At least if he's really NPD. It's a serious mental illness, and to the best of my knowledge it does not go away just because you become nicer to him.

However, it will probably give him a chance to learn how to mimic being nice and empathetic. I'm still very new to this thread, but that's my my STBX did. And underneath he kept up the same SA behaviors, only they were escalating all the time. And I had no idea until towards the very end.

I hope that others here will chime in. Can a NPD be trained to be nice and empathic? Can they change?

A CSAT and a psychologist both told me no.

No matter what, you're learning a lot, and I know that you can put the knowledge to good use. I wish I had found this thread several years ago - my D-Day. I have children, and I'm still not divorced from my NPD SA STBX. We are in a child custody battle.

[This message edited by ChoosingHope at 8:49 PM, February 10th (Monday)]


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((FindMyselfAgain)))

(((Tribe)))


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5300 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
shakeitoff
♀ New Member
Member # 42224
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PERFECT! Thank you chipped.
This:
I have been avoiding this place where I know logically I belong; it is just very hard for me to come to terms with.

I totally agree.. its almost as if, once admitted, you will be required to admit that you were wrong for __ years. That you loved a lie.

I am still on the fence as to whether I belong here or somewhere with padded walls and special jackets.

This is attempt 3 at leaving after 12 years. He sucks me back in so easily, I find it so hard to not believe be can be the same guy he was way back when. Before he hurt me, before I was "pathetic" and "crazy". When we were just two people who adored each other.
I am stealing the idea here to right down all the bad things and compare them to the good. Hopefully that keeps me in reality this time.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back..

Posts: 14 | Registered: Jan 2014
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FMA, cry tears are a healing release of built up toxins.

Releasing the toxins help your body to regain strength.

Tears= strength!

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4021 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can a NPD be trained to be nice and empathic? Can they change?

Can they be trained to be nice? Sure. If it gets them something they want for themselves. Empathetic? NO. That piece is missing. They have no idea how YOU feel. Or care. They are mystified by your feelings except as your feelings cause them more or less inconvenience.

Can they change? Yes. But it is not the change that makes them empathetic. They can learn to put on a better "human suit." They can mimic proper responses.

But the bad gift giving. The anger at your sadness. The pure selfishness. The toddler mindset "I am the center of the universe and all serve ME, ME, ME!!" (insert foot stomp and/or tantrum) That will never change.

To decide to live with an NPD is to decide to put aside your needs forever. To cater to the whims and rages and tantrums of the NPD. To always be less than and less important than. To be alone in the relationship. It can be done. It can be done for good reasons. But it must be done with full knowledge of the choice you make.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5300 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Chippednotbroken
♀ Member
Member # 40170
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shake it took me awhile to run and I worry about getting sucked back in so I wrote down all the horrible things he had done. I make myself relive them. Things I have made myself forget to survive I now make myself remember. Why do that? So when he is professing his change and undying love I remember what it felt like to cower in the corner of our bedroom while he screamed at me that I was a whore. Never again will I feel like that. When I am farther out and "safer" I will stop but not yet.
Someone else posted on here that if you go back they will punish you for having stood up to them. Think back because it probably happened to you. Strength!


Me BS 32
STBXH 34
3 kids
Divorcing, though he isn't on board.
DDay July 13'

Posts: 241 | Registered: Aug 2013
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