The day I opened his secret email account and read its contents, was the day that I became his enemy.
I had absolutely no clue about STBX until he turned on me. As soon as I discovered his A, it was like a light went on and his true form come out.
How common is it for NPD people to chameleon into different people, depending on where they are?
What type of TV shows or movies did your NPD prefer if the choice was their's ?
John Wayne, Old Westerns or Kung Fu, Turner Classic Movies over and over. Watching the same movie back to back was not uncommon. Family Guy, South Park, America's Funniest Home Videos, Wipe Out, 24, Survivor, Football.
Interesting to me, he didn't really understand football. He just didn't "get" the game. But his man card demanded that he watch football. I think this explains the gun movies, westerns, and kung fu.
People getting hurt or putting down others was funny to him. I don't think he understood that satire was making fun of the worst parts of society. He thought those shows glorified his way of thinking.
He used to talk about being "on Survivor." Since the rest of the world is so stupid, he was sure he could win that contest...
What type of TV shows or movies did your NPD prefer if the choice was their's ?
The choice was always his...The Bourne series was one he watched often. The History channel and... He just like watching tv never turned it off. I hate TV!!!! Sorry I had a moment.
I always felt like I was living in some sort of "costume party" with XNPDH. He was always playing a "role". If we went horseback riding, he had to be dressed up like a cowboy. He would even start talking with a drawl. I was like,
If he worked outside, especially if there was a chain saw or an axe involed, he had to have his Paul Bunyan costume on.
If we went out to an Italian restaurant, he put on his Italian costume.
And if we went from an Italian restaurant to a country western bar afterwards for a drink, he HAD to stop at home to change costumes.
Compartmented, my STBX has said during deposition that there is NOTHING risky about putting an ad on CraigsList at 3pm to be "raped" at 5pm by strangers in our very large city. He also has said there is nothing wrong with doing this while one is married and has two young children. No remorse. Couldn't care less. The rest of us are idiots for worrying
I think it's great that he said this during a deposition. I also think it's great that like most NPD's, he likes to run his big fat mouth. They all think everyone loves to hear them talk as much as they love to hear themselves talk.
He's been a diagnosed SA for almost ten years and seen several CSATs etc, but he's told the child custody evaluator that I made up the diagnosis myself. And that he only went to SA treatment and 12-Step Programs through the years because I am a repressed frigid woman (!) who forced him to do it and told him he was a SA all by myself! When I'm not frigid, I'm physically and emotionally abusive to him. And I stole all his money. I mismanaged the family money, and I hid assets.
I wouldn't worry too much about this. Do you have any documentation from his time with the CSAT's showing his diagnosis that you can provide to the child custody evaluator?
This is another situation where document, document, document is going to be your saving grace. And let him run his mouth. His mouth will be his downfall.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)
In the days right after Dday. I wrote letters that I never intended to send to STBX. I kept them private and hid them. But not well, because he found them.
After he left, I noticed some were missing. He said DD found them and spread them out all over the place. And he (of course) called me paranoid and crazy and why would he take them. He didn't know what I was talking about.
I just found one. Cleaning out the house. I found one stuffed behind a set of jars STBX hated.
I expect I may find the rest shoved into things of mine he hates.
ETA: Nevermind, it wasn't one that went missing. It was one I actually wrote him.
[This message edited by littlefoggy at 7:03 PM, January 18th (Saturday)]
I don't have any documentation from the CSATs, or the psychologist who first diagnosed him. He has refused to give the custody evaluator access to his psychological records. It's a serious problem for me. I simply don't have a piece of paper that says SA.
(It's also a huge problem for him; I mean, who admits going to CSATs and psychologists for years, and then claims he has no SA problems? And won't release his records???)
But the burden of proof is on me. I need to prove that he is a danger to the children.
As for all his accusations, I am trying to pull them apart and debunk them, one by one, and prove that he has lied. But some things will just be his word against mine. I'm hoping that if I can prove some of his patterns of lying, the evaluator will question the rest of his lies.
But I'm worried. He's deteriorated greatly over the past several years, but he still has that shameless NPD glib charm. Lies like a dog. No shame. He's convincing. He has had 2.5 years to create this narrative that gets more and more shocking. And more and more convincing - it hangs together quite nicely now, as opposed to when he first started putting it together about a year ago. It's devastating.
If anyone has been through a custody eval with a NPD, could you please let me know? Thank you so much. I'm so grateful for rediscovering this thread.
If you have one in your area, they are worth a phone call for information specific to your area.
Can't, my marriage lasted 18 years. After it ended, I had people coming up to me and telling me of his inappropriate relationships all the years we lived here. He was even written up for inappropriate behavior with a subordinate and ordered to undergo sexual harassment training for a 3rd time!
He explained it to me that he told an off color joke, got written up and had to undergo training all over again. He made it seem plausible. The person who reported him was let go. Post divorce we were in a CS modification trial -one of his witnesses is the person who was fired, she was also his equal (supervisor-like him) after the trial she told me she had an inappropriate relationship with him! By some strange twist of fate we were both working for the same employer( different divisions-on the same small campus) she also told his attorney that her testimony would NOT help his client!
The kicker XH is an attorney.
You just cannot make this stuff up!
That my H was the one lying to my face about who HE was in our marriage is not a reflection on me! I was not the one working hard at deception. When his mask slipped and I could not unsee what I saw behind it-I became his number one enemy. When I stopped hiding the truth -I became OW/NW ARCH ENEMY. She earned brownie points for aligning with him and causing me pain.
It's a vicious insidious cycle. The best place to be is away from it. NC = no new hurts and helps heal the old wounds that the NPD did not allow to heal .
You're healing, and like having a broken bone. The beginning is always the most painful.
My kids are 16yo and 14yo and are really struggling with their relationship with their father. What I want to hear about is what is life like for your kids when they become adults and how they manage their relationships with their NPD parent. If you have any insight greatly appreciated. I will add that the kids have already figured out a great deal about their father on their own (ie: his selfishness, words do not mirror actions, the circular conversations, his obsession of appearances, wants life to be fun, twisting words), again kids are more perceptive than these NPD's give them credit for. They also have teased out yes he is their father but we do not like who he is as a person and how can you change a personality. My advice has always been you will figure out how little or how much a relationship you will have in the future with him and you can manage that in a way that is healthy for you.
Thanks for your thoughts
Most recently, his father passed (who he hadn't seen or spoken to in 25 years) and now people tell me he has become obsessed with that. He's posting constant photos of his father, his hometown-- totally reclaiming that part of the country as who he "is". He wanted nothing to do with that past life when we were together.
I find it unsettling. It's really crazypants. I can't figure out who "he" is and how much he just sucks the souls out of other people.
One more question:
After we split, he NCed me. For almost a year. Then, out of the blue, he broke NC to tell me about his father. It was weird, not only because he didn't have a relationship with the man, but also because I never met him and had no dealings with him at all during our M.
The email itself was totally one-sided. It was all about his pain and what he was going through.
He closed the email by telling me that he just thought I should know all of this, but he instructed me not to call him.
On one hand, if this were a normal person, I'd say he got emotional about his dad and made a sort of silly and impulsive decision to email (he did it on the day of the funeral). But, given his A and his NCing me, he's not normal.
How do you interpret an NPD coming out of the woodwork? I was sort of hoping that once I got NCed, I'd stay NCed. I guess I'm worried this could be the start of him sort of popping up here and there (which I don't want). He had cut other people (like his dad) out of his life when we were together and NEVER looked back. So it's out of character for him to reach out.
[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 11:22 AM, January 19th (Sunday)]
CH - absent documentation - access to the records, can any hay be made by the simple fact that he went all those years? That should be relatively easy to enter in to the record I'd think...a simple; "Did he attend therapy?"
DD1 ( now 22). Has a token relationship with him. During her senior year of HS she had no relationship. During college they had what I call a hallmark relationship, cards at holidays and birthdays-not a lot of talking. Since she's graduated college 5 states away and stayed -they seem to have more contact. I don't know the quality of their communication.
DD2 (22) has no relationship with him. She was his little buddy growing up. He had her keeping secrets from me, her sisters, including her twin who was her best friend. She was suicidal shortly after he left as he had no time for her and she was morning the loss of their relationship. During HS and college she was a yo-yo being sucked in by him only to be discarded. Almost 3 yrs ago (starting her junior year of college) she became pregnant by a guy who did the pull her in to push away game. My DGD is almost 2. Because of what's transpired since DD's pregnancy and DGD's birth, she has no relationship with XH. NW will not allow him to see DGD. He had to sneak into the hospital when she was born, and has spent less than an hour in her presence in almost 2 years! DD is ok with this, she doesn't want her DD growing up with his influence in her life.
DD3 (21) has a little better relationship with him than her older sisters. But it is beginning to wear on her. She sees thru him, BUT she blames a lot of his behavior on NW.
DD4 (18). Thinks XH is bullied by NW and therefore isn't responsible for anything he does, he just goes along with NW to keep the peace in his household.
It seems that each of my girls reaches similar milestones with him at certain ages. All of them had a rocky relationship during their senior year of HS with him and NW.
I hope this helps.
[This message edited by Kajem at 4:14 PM, January 19th (Sunday)]
He had an obsession with an asteroid hitting the earth and therefore: Armageddon, Deep Impact, The Day After Tomorrow etc.
He laughed his ass off at the scene in The Ugly Truth where Katherine Heigl has the orgasm panties on in the restaurant and a kid has the remote control. He thought Gerard Butler was great in that one. I thought he was a disgusting pig.
He used to love to watch Hockey and UFC but I think the OW has cured him of that.
He now does not watch TV at all.
He only watches movies on DVD or TV because it's only 2 hours of TV at a time.
He is someone that I never want to know.
It is so hard to find out that 14 years have all been a lie. He was only pretending, he wasn't really that good at it either. He was never a really nice person. I believe he was better than he really was. Now I see that he is worse than I ever knew possible.
I changed the phone plan today. put it in my name and then I blocked his number. No calls, no texts.
Now I am going to set up a new email account, close the old one. Wish that I could just block him from it.
I am anxious for the day when he is irrelevant. I wish for the time when I don't feel the knot in my stomach, the heart palps, the nightmares.
Last night though my nightmares took a new turn. I was throwing cans of tuna at his forehead and I did not miss. I dumped a bucket of dirt on his head. Think I was angry?
I think it is better than being on the receiving end, at least in my sleep.
Trying to not care. Every time the pain comes up I remind myself that he is a vampire, that he always was a vampire and that I am lucky to get away. I have a chance now to live a life without anger, deception and cruelty.
I am trying to hang on to that.
After reading his email last night, it made me vomit, it was horrific. I sent a stream of texts to him, I let out every bit of my anger that is possible through a text. Now I am done. Nothing left to say. No contact. NO Contact. NO CONTACT!
I know enough. I do not wish to know anymore. Once you know someone is a monster, nothing can shock you about them.
I would now like to be known as Can!
dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
attempted R, it was all a lie
Just like we've had to reprogram ourselves to listen to ourselves, our gut, our bull shite meter -whatever we call that little voice inside each of us.
The hard part of dealing with the narc as a parent is the voicelessness that kids are exposed to. If left unchallenged, the kids learn to trust someone else BEFORE they would even think of trusting what they have seen, heard, felt themselves!
My kids therapist explained it along these lines:
My kids trusted XH. When they saw him kiss OW, they asked him about it. He told them that he did not kiss her, they were mistaken, he knows what he did and he didn't kiss her. Basically denied anything.
The problem for some kids they reason "he's my dad, I love him, I trust him, he would never lie to me -so what he said must be true. I didn't see him kissing her. " The problem : if this happens enough the kids start to loose their inner voice in favor of what someone else is telling them. Not so bad if the person is truthful and has the kids best interest at heart. But if they don't???? Think someone selling drugs telling them all the wonderful things drugs do-even if my kids knew not to get involved with drugs that voice is not believed-the outside person's view carries more weight than what hey know.
The truth needs to be reinforced from the perspective that the kids know what happened/saw/etc. if you spout the truth as your truth it becomes a she said he said issue with the kids left to choose sides. That leaves the door open for some other NPD to come along and gain the kids trust.
It's scary shit dealing with the NPD as a coparent . The only way to do this is to reparent and empower the kids with their truth!
My XH just wrote his parents a venomous letter blaming them for disowning his family (NW, her kids and their family) . The letter is as twisted as his mind with rewriting history.
It's taken them 3years to get to the point of acceptance and NC. Give yourself the gift of time and NC.
It really does equal no new hurts.
I asked her if she felt any remorse she said "I cry in the shower"
I can't seem to place my XWW, though. She doesn't *quite* fit NPD? I guess some of it is because I don't know what she truly believed out of what she said.
Basically she always seemed very dependent on other people and never had much confidence in herself. Of course this could be accounted for by depression, right?
Of the 9 or so years we were married, she worked a grand total of 4 weeks and only 5 or so of those years was she staying home full time with our daughter. But she acted like she had trouble doing anything. She barely did any housework or cooking. She did the bare minimum for our daughter, but there were bursts of effort and she ACTED like she cared but was just going through a hard time.
Since she had comforted me through a couple years of depression at the start of our marriage (during which I advanced, slowly, in school, and worked part time, filling in the rest with financial aid), I was inclined to give her a pass and just assume that we were both doing the best we could and things would eventually get better.
The thing is, though, she developed a temper fairly early on, and my survival instincts I learned from my dad kicked in, as much as I tried to be blind to them. I realize now that I was always at least a little afraid of her, of upsetting her, or of making her dislike me. She was always really warm and kind except when she turned it off like she had some sort of light switch and got distant/pissed off/angry.
She never got a driver's license. I always drove her everywhere. I almost never said no. She used to get mad at me when I was late picking her up from school (she did part time school for a while). She would ask if she could spend money on anything but she constantly bought "small" items, which definitely added up. If I pushed things and said hey we need to watch this budget category, she would say okay, and if I said later that hey we're still going over on this category, we can't get this, she got mad at me because I was saying or implying that she was keeping me from having what I needed.
Honestly, all I wanted was to be able to save money. The most we ever had saved up was maybe 4k-5k but there was always something she wanted to get (plus the inherent waste of her never working). I have been separated from her for only a YEAR and in that year I've paid about $1500 in divorce costs, purchased a car for about $6000, and saved $16,000. And I pay all expenses for my DD and for now I'm waiving about $80/month in child support.
I've always been a saver, but there was some bad stuff that happened a few years ago that I think made me even more cautious. Basically I ran out of the ability to take out more financial aid (loans), and she wasn't going to school so she couldn't either, and the economy was crashing so it was very hard to get enough hours in my job at the time. During this period she got a job for a couple weeks and then quit angrily when a manager said something not nice about her performance (according to her).
Eventually we literally could not make rent so we went to live with in laws. Her mom is a TERRIFYING person to be around. She's, among other things, DEFINITELY NPD. That experience was so terrible that when we finally got back and got back on our feet, I placed financial stability above all else. Before that, I sort of had this magical thinking that we would solve stuff as a team, but after that I realized that not only would my XWW not help me with money, she would turn on me and be nasty to me once we started having financial troubles. I was actually terrified of her getting mad at me again even when we started to do well, in the case that things got financially bad again.
When we were gone at the in laws in this other state (she took DD with her about a week before I left, giving me the horrible task of reducing our life to a couple suitcases and throwing away everything else as fast as I could to not leave the apartment in too bad of a state), I felt like she turned on me, when she wasn't buried in this deep depression. She did turn on me, really. When I finally got a plan together to go back, a few months after I got there, and fix stuff and finish the last class I needed for my degree, she begged me not to go, but I said I had to. Things were just getting worse.
Ten weeks later, we were all back home, but she said that she felt like I abandoned her, and I don't think she ever let that go.
So. I could write a lot more, but it seems like she's always been very selfish/self-centered/easy to anger/hostile to criticism. I chose to ignore that as much as possible and latch on to the good things she said about me, and the comfort she offered me, and to believe the positive things she said about us and me and about her. And maybe there are more good things I'm just not remembering now.
But there is or was something very wrong with her and I wonder if NPD fits or if it's something else. She is very self defeating and self delusional and doesn't take care of herself properly, which doesn't seem to fit NPD?
Oh. Another weird story. In 2011, an old male friend of hers was in town for a few weeks and he'd often come over and he was sort of an old friend of mine also, but I trusted her completely. Then she started pushing me to let her sleep with him, and got really upset when I said no, and just constantly pushed at me for a long time, and to be honest I'd be willing to bet that counts as an EA, probably PA that she didn't admit to, and of course it got rugswept, at least long enough for her to get into her exit affair the following year.
So I just don't know. Maybe someone here has some insight?
[This message edited by ProbableIceCream at 8:18 PM, January 20th (Monday)]
She agreed to all the divorce terms I gave her and there's been virtually zero conflict since that one-month-past-d-day thing. Very strange. I mean, she didn't even talk to a lawyer. I could have won by default in the first filing.
[This message edited by ProbableIceCream at 8:34 PM, January 20th (Monday)]