He bombarded me with texts, where is this, where is that, my mother wants this, she was there for you why can't you be kind... on and on.
Then an hour later, "I was a selfish bastard, only tuning in to my own unhealthy wishes".
Is this what to expect? It really means nothing. Is it just him feeling sorry for himself?
I need to keep strong. Do not let him in. It was just a crumb. It doesn't mean that there is any more. He is incapable of giving more.
I just wish he would leave me alone. It is so much easier.
This was three hours ago, I did not respond.
The old me would have jumped on this crumb, gobbled it up and begged for more. There is no more.
Damn this hurts.
I would now like to be known as Can!
dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
attempted R, it was all a lie
Can, Be strong. Yes, changing up the tactics is very common. When you go No Contact and ignore the texts, he is going to try new things to try to get the ego kibbles. Just remember, IF you respond, whatever it is you respond to is what he will try again with to get more attention. Continue to ignore. It is all just flash and mirrors.
As for "monopolizing" the thread... Go find the old thread (8? or 9?) where I stumbled in and every moment was an AHA moment and I just rambled on and on. I guess some lurk and read and pop in for support when they need to. But there are others who HAVE to process it out and say the horrors out loud and have the Tribe nod and chime in with "YEP." It helped me and if it helps you, then you go right ahead and post and post and post.
SI is a very special place and then within that special place, there are a few others. This tribe is one such.
Merry Christmas, friends. You are every one a gift well remembered and cherished.
I keep having this urge to ask questions. It is absurd as I know it will all be lies anyway. Every time I remember a conversation, something he said that contradicts what was really happening it is making me crazy!
I know, I will never make sense of crazy because, well, it's just crazy.
This roller coaster sucks. I go from angry and feeling strong to so hurt and wanting to contact.
I guess it's just hard to accept that the reality is what it really is? That he is who he really is?
I am not going to contact. I am almost shocked by the struggle not to.
It will get easier, right?
I hope everyone has a peaceful holiday.
It does get easier. I've been complete NC with him for well over a year and a half (except for occasional e-mails from him asking me to send him naked pictures, which I ignore) and I no longer feel any urge to contact him. I even go days without thinking of him, and I'm able to look at old vacation pictures and think about how much fun I had on those trips. NC is so essential, though.
I do a fair amount of behavioral counseling to help people keep difficult parrots in their homes, so have done a lot of reading and work over the past 10 years on behavior modification. And what works for dealing with parrots also works to modify our own behavior!
Positive reinforcement is the way to go. I know this sounds super hokey, but it works. Decide on your goal -- what exactly does NC mean to you? Get a calendar. On every day when you meet your goal, mark it somehow -- perhaps a sticker, or a star, or a happy face, or whatever. You have the primary motivation of wanting to see many days of happy faces (for example) strung together. Wanting to keep a streak alive.
Then, if that's not motivating enough, or just to make it more fun, come up with additional rewards for yourself.
For example, 10 days straight of NC = massage; 29 out of 31 days of NC in the month = concert tickets, or whatever would be motivating to you.
Have an accountability partner -- someone in real life or here. Post about how NC is going and then when you're feeling weak, you don't want to disappoint your partner, so you soldier on and maintain NC.
This method is how I turned myself into a runner, and how I've met many other goals during the year. I thought it sounded silly at first, but it's amazing how well it works!
(((Can))) This part is the toughest. He's losing ego kibbles, so may start increasing frequency of contact. Remain strong. Nothing good can come from contact. You want to starve him of kibbles and make him look elsewhere. You've got this.
Married: 11 years, no kids
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo
That was my goal in putting it out there. First step of recovery admitting the problem!
I hoped by putting out in black and white it would help.
I think it's still so soon that my brain keeps going over and over the recent events. Remembering, or just realizing, holy f**k that was a lie too!
It's funny it isn't the fact of another woman it's the deception about trying to R and that he was pretending. That is just so beyond comprehension to me.
I just remembered the letter he wrote me, on Nov. 14th, it was a lie! I was so damn happy and it was a lie! It was the first real expression of remorse and it was a lie! It was also the last expression of remorse also.
I keep trying to tell myself, it doesn't matter anymore. I do not want him in my life. What he thinks or feels,(if that's what you could call it), just does not matter to me.
I remember a conversation about that letter shortly after. He told me he had to get it out quickly, when he "felt" it as it goes away and then he doesn't feel it anymore. That is just plain creepy.
I love your ideas about positive reinforcement. I have been thinking about how strong I am every time I resist contact. Maybe something more tangible would help.
I will have to be very creative with that as I am so tight with money. No room for treats. I would first have to deny myself something and then allow it. I don't think that will have the same effect!
I will try keeping track of the days. Also, I think I will post here when I am struggling, like this morning.
I am too embarrassed to admit that I struggle with no contact to anyone in real life. They would not understand at all. I have a few friends and my sons that are very supportive of the divorce and why it was so hard for me to go through with it. I am afraid that if I told them that I struggle with not contacting him they would run for the hills. Can't say that I would blame them. Even I think it's crazy
Thanks for the understanding and reinforcement.
Off the top of my head, for example, of things you could do when you meet a goal:
wear a favorite piece of clothing
spend 30 minutes searching for favorite songs on youtube
paint your toenails
eat cereal for dinner with no guilt
long, hot bath with candles and a book
watch a favorite movie
There are things you can do for free/very cheaply that can be rewards (if that's what you want.)
And, truly, the best reward is being free of such a monster and finding yourself and happiness again. Think of the long-term gain from it!
I've heard it takes 21 days to make something a habit, so it's probably extra tough to maintain NC in those first 21 days. And each time you have to break NC, it sets you back. But you are really strong and I know you can do it!
JJ....I imagine your harmonica and poem together.. Love the poem!
Merry Christmas everyone!
Now he texted he wants to come here again tomorrow. Into the house to get the couch, and the TV.
I have to work all day.
I do not want him here.
I had agreed to let him take these things before I found out that he was gaslighting me for 5 f**king months!
Now I don't want to give him anything. I know it's just stuff.
He is leaving for a week on Saturday, so he has to move either Thursday or Friday. I have to work both days!
Maybe I can get help to move it to the garage.
Just panicking and I don't want to bother any one on Christmas.
One day, I just wish for one day he would leave me alone.
As long as he has his personal items, he's done. The rest can wait until your divorce settlement
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)
" narcissistic lovers " is a good book to read and I think if IC is it available financially maybe you want to try Melanie Tonia Evans and her program for that.
Getting no explanations was very difficult but you will never get them from an NPD.
They are just not human-soulless creatures without empathy and that is difficult to believe...
Thread 8 and 9 of the NPD thread is very worth reading.
A lot of advice, book recommendations etc.
Stay strong!!! You can do it!!!
jjct: thank you for the poem . You are always welcome at the family table, you'll love the wine and we all need a crazy drunk uncle who is an artist with words
BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
Divorced, final 03/12
Thanks for the awesome poem, JJ!
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
Just because he wants something doesn't mean you have to bend over backwards to make it so.
A NORMAL person would ask - not demand. A normal person would understand that Thursday and Fridays were work days for you-and therefore inconvenient! A normal person would make arrangements for after their holiday.
Just because he wants to pick up the stuff this week, doesn't mean he gets to do it.
Going NC is like breaking an addiction. It takes almost every ounce of our being to break-your doing well. Each day you get a bit stronger, it isn't easy. I've had to sit in my hands, post, make cookies-anything to keep my hands busy -not responding to him-added to my timeline of nc and even when I broke nc the next time nc went longer.
It's a process and it takes time to get over the addiction. Please give yourself the gift of time.
Did you all believe these things? I took them on as my own. I would be first hurt by these words and then look inside and question who I was.
I know and knew then that I had issues. I fear that there is something wrong with me. I have been abused since childhood. Shouldn't there be something wrong with me?
I am trying to look at who I really am. Who have I been, what did I feel, how did I act. I am a good mom. I love my sons. I treat them with respect and never try to control or but in too much. I speak respectfully and try to always leave the door open for real communication. I do not judge but try to talk in a kind way about some things that may not be good for them. I ask questions about what they think and feel about their choices. When they need help or need advice or are ready to make a change I offer help and encouragement. That is a good mom isn't it?
I did lie to stbx once, seven years ago. My business was failing and I was trying to scramble to pay bills. I was working really hard to make it work but it wasn't. I hid the truth. I tried to tell him but I was afraid. I was afraid of him. It was wrong of me.
I tried to talk to him after. He would not allow it. I did what I could to make up for it. I found a job. Worked overtime. Spent no money at all. Handed all my pay over. Did all the house and yard work. Apologized.
He still uses it against me. Even when he has said over the last year that he understands why I was afraid, he still brings it up and calls me names. He did it by text yesterday.
He equates it with his actions. He says that I am a liar. He says that he could never trust me again.
I know it was wrong. I would do anything to go back and change my actions. I cannot. All I could do was to try to atone and never do anything like that again. Try to understand why I did it and change. I realized that being in the hole financially was not the bad thing, covering it up because I was afraid was the bad thing.
I resolved to be honest and open in all things. I was from that day forward.
I remember how I felt back then. I was so afraid of him. He would be so cruel for imagined transgressions I was terrified of how he would be with a real mistake, wrongdoing. It does not excuse the behavior. I should have been honest.
I gave him a letter this year, a couple of months ago. I expressed how sorry I was for having done this. I expressed how much I hurt knowing that I had caused him pain. I said all of this to him also. Close, holding his hands, I wanted to be able to express my deep remorse, hopefully to finally resolve it, give us both peace with this. Let him really know in a very concrete way that I understood how it made him feel and that is what hurt me, that I hurt him. I hurt the person I loved and trusted me.
Is there any more I could have done? To be an honest person going forward from that point. Is ther any more?
I feel like I am being selfish now. I am trying to protect myself. It seems like such a fine line.
Did you question yourself? Wonder if you had a PD?
We spent so much time this last year in MC and IC dealing with the fallout from the a.
When I brought up my deception, my IC thought it was minor. That I should let it go. That I had done what I could to atone. That he had punished me too harshly.
looking back this really amped up the abuse. He had a legitimate reason for being angry. I felt ashamed of myself and thought I deserved the abuse.
This is so hard. It all seems so twisted in my head.
I don't want to hurt anyone else.
Is this me just trying to unravel the confusion? Could there be something basic wrong with me that I just don't see?
Is it possible to be raised with abuse and not have it damage who you are? I know that it affected how I allowed others to treat me, I had no self worth, or not enough. I think I am gaining that. I am afraid that I am telling lies about myself to myself. If you have a pd you don't know it right?
Feeling really crazy this morning.
72 hours ago my STBX was sobbingly telling me how she misses me, asking if I still love her, if there is a path back for us, etc. I shut her down. (Our final mediation and/or trial is looming, only weeks away.)
She spent the night last night (with my children, but that's on my other thread) with the OM, who I'm sure would be just thrilled to know his girlfriend and soulmate was just courting me. He likely has no idea--as I did not--whom he is dealing with.
(I am tempted to contact him and inform him of her recent behavior, but I will not.)
These people are truly disturbed.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
I'm typing from my phone, please bear with me.
I also hid financial situations from my XH. And I chastised myself for it. And it was the beginning of the end of my marriage. Would I do it again? I honestly don't know, it would depend on the person I am dealing with in the future.
When XH and I were newlyweds we went about establishing credit. Like everyone else at the time, we got a couple of credit cards and went spending. Once the bills came in, so did his anger at the fact that he had to pay interest on those purchases. That anger was directed at me.
It got so bad that I would not be home when the bills came in the mail.
Several years later, add kids, when I had some bad financial stuff happen, I tried to hide it. Tried to minimize it, recover on my own from it, make it up to him, etc. and he used it as a reason to have an affair. The kicker is "had we been a team we could have weathered that financial crisis!"
We weren't a team! Why weren't we a team? His reactions to financial matters early in our marriage put me on alert and put me off working WITH him. How do you work as a team, when one person is afraid of a team member? The power is all one sided.
If his reaction early on had been to talk to me about our financial situation approach it that we are both responsible, and we need to cut our spending etc. it would have ( most likely) had a different situation than hiding stuff from him.
He conditioned me to hide things that would cause him to rage at me! H
Read the first 3 words over and over.
I don't think you're crazy. I think you were reacting to a crazy making situation for a lot of years.... It takes time to unravel how much was conditioning from someone else's reaction to a hot button. Your doing that and it's scary, but I don't think your crazy. I actually think you are very normal and very strong. Your able to see these things while he is actively trying to jerk your chain with texts, calls etc. I couldn't do that until we had no contact and that took years.
We come out of dealing with the NPD with wounds that can heal well or heal infected. All it takes is removing the debris and eliminating the infection. Which has its own (cleansing) pain. You are in the process of cleaning the debris from the wound to keep the infection from taking over the wound. Keep up the good work!
[This message edited by Kajem at 7:44 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]
The last 10 months, the word "read". If I said read in a sentence, mentioned reading, suggested reading, read a good article or he saw me reading, he would get angry, not every time. It was Jekyll and Hyde. Never know what the reaction would be. It almost made it harder. It was easier when he was always angry, then I didn't let down my guard.
NPD-x would also use anything against me. I too am a really nice person, teach kindergarten, gentle and soft spoken....and used to be an emotional mess due to extreme FOO. Lots of therapy, reading, and SI and I am much healthier
Anyway, I used to get so triggered when he would tell lies about me such as: I am controlling, I am over sensitive, I cant remember things correctly (I used to keep documentation because he used that card so frequently), I am a bad parent, I ruin everything...
When he did that I had this irrational need to defend myself. I would work overtime to show him I was not that person...I couldn't understand why he could not see I was a really good lady.......
Now, I see how I was being manipulated and conned to work extra hard. I wasn't a real person with feelings...he did not care one wit about anyone's feelings but his own.
Now, when he starts with that crap I let it wash over me and give him crickets. I don't care anymore, I don't do anything to defend myself from him or his smear campaigns. If people believe him, it is their loss. And I do this, because if I respond it feeds the monster.
[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 8:10 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]
I texted him yesterday that I would arrange to have the items put into the garage. I cannot do it today or Friday as I have to work.
I do not want him in the house when I am not there, also I don't want him in the house when I am there!
I think removing the items for him is reasonable. I do feel like I am being mean, unreasonable. This is my husband! He is also a complete stranger to me now. Someone I do not trust.
Just trying to stay strong. He has been texting this morning. I am ignoring it. I told him what would work for me. He can live without a TV, couch and dresser for a few days.
Thank you for the support. This is so very hard. I feel like I am in the Twilight
That was supposed to be Twilight Zone.
Maybe I am coming out of the Twilight Zone and the "normal" is too disorientating, too new for me still.
thanks everyone. You are helping to keep me strong. I am stronger but not strong enough yet. I will get there. I am determined.