He IS playing games with you, and will continue as long as he can. You have to do what's safe for you, regardless of what he wants.
And please, keep us updated so we don't worry if we don't hear back today. This is always the worst time for safety, but all of this is nerve-wracking. Be sure to look after yourself first.
You can't make sense of crazy, but you can walk away and leave it in your past.
And thank you, Chrysalis. I appreciate that more than you know. (((Chrys)))
[This message edited by SoHurt at 10:27 AM, December 23rd (Monday)]
I told him I did not want him here today. It is my day off.
I told him that he was supposed to take his clothes yesterday when he had the opportunity.
I am wondering if I should just get it over with. They are in the garage and he won't have to come in the house. The garage is detached.
I have all the keys. I have an alarm. I could just leave the house I suppose.
I promise to update later. I will not leave you wondering and worrying. I appreciate your support so much.
I guess my new mantra should be you can't make sense of crazy.
I am painting a rocking chair for my granddaughter and I should have already finished it. All this drama made me completely forget.
I am going to try to stay busy today.
Just get through.
I would now like to be known as Can!
dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
attempted R, it was all a lie
NPD's are pros at manipulating. They will use scare tactics, heart string tactics, they will play sick, make up terminal illnesses, use children against you, family members. They will swear on the bible, this and that grave, the lives of their children, their parents, etc, etc. Nothing is off limits. And just when you think, "oh he would never". Oh YES HE WILL! And when you think he couldn't possibly go any lower, "Low" suddenly has a basement. There is no low low enough for an NPD.
You cannot make sense out of nonsense. You will drive yourself crazy trying.
I'm sorry you're having a tough time. The holidays are difficult. I'm thinking of you, friend. (((Sohurt)))
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)
I am going to leave the house and I will not return until his truck is gone.
Will update when I return.
This feels so crazy. This is the man I shared a bed with until last Thursday night.
If I had known then what I know now...
There is no one in real life to talk to about this. They look at me like I am crazy. I feel crazy. I feel ashamed, embarrassed that I accepted this for all these years. I feel ashamed that I gave him a second chance.
We are here! Contact your domestic violence shelter-they have many resources to help you thru this, advocates, people familiar with the local law/legal/mental health systems. I found my DV group invaluable in steering me onward help. Other members have also found that one the DV group was involved-they weren't looked on as crazy anymore. Seeking help from outside expert sources added weight to the claims being made.
I' e got to go, but will be back. Till then take deep breaths and do something just for you, you deserve a little pampering.
I think that I just have to accept that I will never understand. He just does not think like a normal person. Thankfully, I will never think like him.
I needed help with this part of it. The wise ones here repeated often "you can't make sense out of nonsense."
It is exactly right to be thankful that you don't think like him or understand what allows him to act the way he does.
How well I remember the 3am moment of realization combined with an almost horror of what WAS and how "unbelievable" it was. Hang in there.
(((SoHurt))) hang in there, sister. When you are ready, share the burden.
It is up to you whether you let him come pick his stuff up today or not. I can't make that decision for you. However, I wouldn't necessarily agree that you should leave the house unless someone you trust would stay there for you. If he had copies of the keys made, he could still destroy quite a bit in a short time. N's are very good at pretending they didn't do something or that they would NEVER... insert whatever actions or words they've done.
Do not trust him to do only that which he is supposed to. When they suffer an injury to their ego, which is what being divorced is, they are even more dangerous than before. So my concern is that you keep yourself safe, but don't leave your home and belongings vulnerable, either. You may have changed the alarm codes, which is good, but damage can still be done very quickly. Err on the side of caution, always, and you'll be safer.
Yes, make that your mantra. Because, no matter how hard you try, you will never make sense of it, and you'll always have questions that you'll never have answers for. I could write a book on just those questions I have, alone. But I've accepted there will never be an answer to any of them, and that's where you'll get to, eventually.
Stay busy, stay safe. We're here.
ETA: And CG, thank you, too. Don't know if I'll be able to share much, because this is the first year of actually dealing with it openly. I'm feeling pretty raw right now. It helps, though, to know that you guys are here, and that I can help someone else. This (((((Tribe))))) ROCKS.
Speaking of which, I'm doing a lot of music therapy right now, and that includes listening to bands I never thought I would. Who knew I'd be a major fan of Linkin Park or Evanescence at nearly 50? I was never into "metal," but these guys NAIL life with an N. My kids listened to these for years, and I never caught on to what they were saying to me... Now I know, and it hurts. But it's also incredibly empowering! So while it breaks my heart, knowing what I know now, it's also the source of the healing. Never once did I think my kids knew more than I do. Just goes to show you... an old dog CAN learn new tricks.
[This message edited by SoHurt at 11:59 AM, December 23rd (Monday)]
I am back safely, he is gone alarm is on and phone by my side.
I have so much to do and all I want to do is go to sleep.
My sons and granddaughter were supposed to come to my house for Christmas Eve and now the one with the baby does not want to. He is afraid of more drama. Can't blame him.
I will go there but they want me to cook and bring it! I think I will correct that, we can all participate.
The one thing that makes me nervous is coming home alone at night.
This feels so insane.
I have to say it really feels so nice to know others understand and care. Somehow in the other forums I was afraid to post about a lot of this. I was afraid of the responses.
I guess I had to come to my breaking point to be able to admit all of this shit and shit is what it is.
Thank you again, to everyone
I can understand how you feel about your kids and grandkids. I nearly lost all three of my boys to the monster, because they couldn't deal with him. It's hard to blame them for not wanting in on the "game" N's play. God knows, I'd give anything to have avoided it. Definitely explain to them that you simply can't do the cooking all by yourself, and let them know what they need to do. Being mom never meant slave, and right now, you just don't have what it takes to manage all that. No shame to be found in it, either.
Can one of your kids follow you home, and make sure you give the all-clear sign before leaving? Or would your neighbor be willing to meet you at the car? Something like that. You're right to be nervous, it's your gut telling you to be careful.
It feels insane because it is. But it's not you that's insane, and you can't underestimate what could happen. It is insane, and once you are past it, you'll have more work to do, but you'll have yourself back again. That's the part that I like best, sometimes. I am ME again. You won't believe how wonderful you'll feel. It may sneak up on you, or it might just hit you one day. Either way, the feeling is incomparable.
Never be afraid to post what you feel here. We've either done it or know someone who did. That breaking point is where we all went, and admitting we lived with this shit was hard. But you're on your way.
With that, I'm going to get my sewing done if I can. My middle son is coming tomorrow with his new fiance, and we are having our first peaceful Christmas Eve ever. It feels really great to be on this side. Hang in there.
He will fight me on moving those because he will have to rent a storage unit.
He has stopped texting me at least for a few hours and that helps. I am not responding but I feel like I need to read them in order to assess his mood and possible behavior.
I will get a brief respite from this. He is leaving for St Thomas on Sat. with his family, his mom splurged for this trip for the family. I was supposed to go but she understands and supports me. Her advice is to get away from him.
She is in her 70's and divorcing, her husband is having an affair and he knocked her down and broke her arm. It is so crazy, they have always appeared to be a "perfect" family. I cannot believe all the secrets I am discovering.
All the things they hid from me about stbx.
I really do appreciate the support here. It feels good to be open about all of this. To speak it truthfully and not worry about the reactions of others. It's like releasing poison.
I keep realizing when I feel anxiety about things, just simple things, like taking a nap or talking with a friend. I can do anything I want now I don't need that anxiety anymore.
SoHurt it is so very kind of you to reply to me when you are dealing with your own problems right now.
I am feeling a bit selfish being so focused on me and my situation. Hopefully as I adjust I will be able to respond in kind.
Did you feel absolutely drained after this?
I hope everyone has a peaceful evening.
Get those locks changed. Tell your neighbors to be on the look-out for anything suspicious.
Did you feel absolutely drained after this?
I don't think I slept for months after this started for me. When I would "sleep" it was a restless sleep filled with night-terrors and nightmares.
But it will get better. Hang in there.
I just read your profile story. You have been through so much and to hear your strength now is amazing and inspiring. I hope the your life only continues to get better and better.
He texted again last night. He needs to get more clothes out of the garage today. I did not respond and that just made him text more and more.
As soon as it is daylight I am going to check to make sure he really has more to pick up. I will let him get more but with the same plan. I will be gone and have neighbor watching.
I was visiting with my neighbor and her husband last night. He had worked with stbx on occasion. He just kept saying, "I am so confused, all he ever talked about was how wonderful you are, talented, so gifted with your job, so sweet". I am finding out that is what he said to everyone. Crazy, all he ever said to me was cruel things. "a monkey could do your job".
As far as the sleeping, since dday #a I have not had a decent nights sleep. Nightmares, crying, several times a night, until last night. Last night I slept so well, all the way through and I don't even remember dreaming. I still woke early but I got 6 hours straight through. I hope that is a new trend. I didn't even take anything!
I took care of coming home tonight also. Neighbor is going to walk over when I get home. All I have to do is call when I am close by. That has relieve some stress.
The best thing is they completely understand! They did not look at me like I was crazy! I was feeling like I was overreacting but I kept telling myself, this is real, you really don't know him or what he is capable of. I have to remember this. It is hard to think like this, it is such a shift from husband to enemy.
I hope you are well today.
[This message edited by cantaccept at 4:32 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)]
I hope it's okay, I am trying to make use of all of your knowledge and experience. I know that I have made progress over the last year but I want to keep that forward momentum. I want to learn as much as I can so that I never, never end up in this situation again.
Why did I accept the abuse. Many, many reasons. It was not my first experience with abuse. I feel like I married the same man twice, different name, different look, but the same on the inside.
This is what I have been thinking and talking about with my IC. I miss him. My last appointment was last Thursday, terrible timing, but had to stop for financial reasons.
I was brought up with abuse. Sometimes I think I was trained for it. Alcoholic, violent, detached, sexually abusive father.
My mother just could not cope with it. She chose to stay because of her issues. So sorry for you mom, I wish I could have helped you.
It was never safe, never predictable. It was never talked about or admitted. After an incident, the terror, the tears, mom to me, "it's okay, everything is fine, just don't tell anyone".
Apparently I took that lesson to heart. All those lessons, those wrong lessons. Be good! Don't ask for anything! Anger is normal. Hide. Be sweet. Be kind. Smile. Just survive.
1st marriage, 22 years old. He was very family oriented. Did things to please me. He seemed happy and kind. Then we got married and had a baby. Anger issues, drug use. I remember thinking I could be a washing machine, I didn't even know what that meant. I do now, I was not a person to him, I was just a thing.
I stayed for 18 years. I had 3 sons dependent on me and I couldn't see my way out and still be able to provide for them. I felt that I had made this choice, this commitment and that I had no right to change my mind. After all it wasn't that bad. He didn't beat me. He supported us. I tried to get him to go to counseling but he refused.
My mom was dying of cancer, in a moment of clarity, she looked at me and said, "I have wasted my life, don't you do the same". It struck me hard. I got the courage, I fought my fears.
The divorce from hell. Restraining orders. Fleeing the house. Rape? Yes, it was. I need to face the things for what they were.
I was in therapy, briefly, it helped a little but not enough. Again, financial issues.
I met stbx about a year later. He was so calm and controlled, seemingly so different. Not true, the same I just didn't even know what to look for then.
Now I do. I hope. Now I know there are really bad people out there.
No self worth. Working on it everyday.
No boundaries. Cheap forgiveness.
Fear of abandonment.
Lack of self confidence.
I think it just comes down to having learned to survive and not value myself. Not knowing or recognizing abuse because it was so "normal" for me.
I often used to joke that my thermostat was broken. I didn't see bad treatment until it was in the past, unless it was really extreme.
I stuffed my feelings. Did not acknowledge the hurt or anger.
I am learning to express myself now. Learning to stand up for myself now. Even at work I am being more assertive and confident.
I hope I am on the right path.
Empathy and kindness are wonderful qualities but not when given to those who do not deserve it. Not when given as a means to survive.
Listen to my gut. It has been screaming and I chose to ignore it, not believe it. If it is screaming, listen.
Sorry for the length. I hope it's okay to put this out here. I am just seeking clarity.
Any thing that is off or that I am missing or that I should be aware of, please feel free! I am so driven to never go back.
Your crazy uncle.
A small small thanks to all.
I can never say enough, write enough, rhyme enough.
Just. Here. With love.
Boom BOOM! goes heart's mojosigh
scratch the deaf ears,
Bangin steps girl Nature’s broom does fly,
calming our fears
cg’s on the bannister
Sadtoo’s drinkin horsewine
Sighing and pleased
W2 friend’s finding everything,
Nothing is hid
is scratchin hoaryhead;
“Is it something I did?”
Thren laughs over all of us
Boobs bouncing in jeep
Auntie LL lurks in my heart
Singin secrets to keep
Jonesy, v, and bobelina
Sang leave to my ear
Heart, hurt, kajem and chrysalis
Dad, distraut did you hear?
Free, time another season flys
silly life from my eyes,
Can can lifts her leg up high
Pissing on lies
phmh sweet Edith all! What gives the greatest hug?
Losing all was so near,
remember stumbling in here
stinking with fear
the simple open hearts
helped me to clear
finding everything with you tribefriends
May this Christmas be dear!
Thank you my new crazy uncle!
I think I have found my home. That means more to me than you can imagine.
Your poem made me smile, even giggle. No easy feat these days!
my 1st free Christmas in many, many years. I have a lot to be grateful for.
Can, I think what you wrote is very insightful. I'm sorry that you can't continue therapy due to financial reasons (are there any sliding scale options near you?) but I do think that if you're motivated to do so, you can do a lot of the work in therapy by yourself. And you seem really intelligent and self-aware, so I know you can do it.
I know this probably goes without saying, but since you picked two guys who were essentially the same, please spend time alone and really work through things before getting into another relationship. It takes time to heal, and you also have to heal from FOO and other issues. So many times in NB, we see people getting into a post-D relationship that isn't any better from the one that brought them to SI.
I was only able to do therapy for a few months after D-Day due to logistical concerns, so much of my healing was done without professional help. Here are some of the things I did that helped:
1. I read a lot. Books and websites. At first, it was a ton on NPD and sociopaths, but then it started to be more general relationship, healing, and self-help. Your library has these books/can get them for you if you don't want to buy them. I can get you a comprehensive list tomorrow when I have more time, if that would be helpful, but titles/sites that stand out include:
Getting Past Your Breakup (not PD-specific, but very helpful with concrete exercises to do.)
Journey From Abandonment to Healing (I actually didn't read this one, but it's highly recommended here.)
The Psychopath Test
The Sociopath Next Door
When I read something that really helped me, I'd copy/paste it or type it out into an e-mail draft in my gmail account so I could reread the inspiration when I was feeling down.
In addition to reading, exercise (for me -- running; the repetitive work was very meditative.)
I know it's so tough now, and you maybe can't see an end in sight. Even though my XWH is severely disordered, I still loved him so much the day we got divorced, and for many months after. Now, with NC and more balance, I know that I wasn't really happy in that relationship, and that much better things are ahead for me. I'm still not 100% there, but I'm doing much better than I would have thought imaginable two years ago.
I know you'll get there, too. Stay NC as much as possible. He's going to try to rope you in, so don't take the bait!
If he contacts you 15 times and you ignore him, but respond on the 16th time, you've just taught him to keep going. It may get worse before it gets better (google "Extinction burst") Vent here; do anything but contact him.
Have you started legal proceedings yet? Can you get exclusive use of the home, which should help to expedite getting his stuff out of there? I know that true healing for me couldn't begin until I could go NC.
Please believe us all that it will get so much better.
Huge hugs! (((CAN)))
Married: 11 years, no kids
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo
Thank you for your kind words. Insightful, that felt really good. I need to be insightful now, I feel like I have been blind, living in the dark, oblivious!
I have been reading everything I can get my hands on. I have always been a reader but through this last year it has been my salvation. My IC said it is my coping mechanism, I suppose it could be a lot worse! I feel driven to learn, to see, to change.
I will explore those websites and any book suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I joined a gym and I also have an elliptical that has really helped with the stress. I also have a dog that has been my constant companion through this. He loves walks. He isn't the brightest, but I say that with love, he more than makes up for it with "emotional intelligence", much more important.
I had one massage. It was amazing! It made me consider trading therapy for weekly massages. My son gave it to me for a gift. (what a guy)
I have tried meditation, guided with tapes. I found it was increasing my anxiety. Maybe because he was here and I didn't feel relaxed with headphones on and my eyes closed. Can't be watchful like that. I will try it again. Wow, just the idea of not being able to see or hear makes me nervous. Maybe I will wait until my son moves in.
NC, I am doing the best I can with that. I will not speak with him. Text only. I only respond to business. Yes, no, the bare minimum.
I am waiting for an appointment with the victims advocate. I will file for D probably on Monday. He is going away, to St. Thomas for a week, leaving on Saturday. If I file now or next week he won't be served until he comes back. I am going to file for exclusive use so I can put and end to the comings and goings.
The house is in my name only as well as the mortgage. He didn't qualify, big surprise. It is currently worth less than the mortgage so selling would cost money. I don't believe that I would be forced to sell because of that.
I see that NC will be so helpful. I went through this with him last year. He was gone for 2 months. I did finally get to no contact and that is when I started to feel better.
Once his stuff is completely out then it can be 100% NC. There will be nothing left to communicate about. Give it all to the legal process.
I really am so grateful for all of you. At the same time I am sorry you all know so much about this.
It's nice to have a crazy uncle. You make me smile.
As to hogging the thread, this is what we ALL go through. We have periods of intense need for support, talking through things, processing, the horror of finally seeing. Don't ever feel bad when you have to post a lot. That's the reason we're a Tribe, why we're all here. So just do what you have to, and the Tribe will be here to help. We GET it like nobody else can. You have to have lived it to really understand. And really, my stuff is dealt with also by helping others. It is a distraction and a focus, both. Talking to you helps me remember who I am, what I want. It helps me. Don't ever, ever feel bad about needing help while someone else is struggling. We all need help sometimes. Tribe is Family. Family is struggling together. That's what makes this group so special.
Sadtoo, I'm sorry I missed your comment to me. Thank you so much - it means a whole lot to me. I hope you're having great holiday fun. I liked this, too:
"Low" suddenly has a basement.
Lord Almighty, if that isn't the truth! How full my ex's basement is, and how very, very deep! That could be a whole book, too.
jj, that was a wonderful poem! I loved that one immensely! You may be the drunk uncle in the family room, but you are the one who can light it up with words! Keep doing it, because you are a talent that helps heal.
To all of the Tribe, Merry Christmas and have as much fun as you can! I probably won't be around much for a while again, but know I love you all, and I'm glad you're here.