I am glad the kids have boundaries and are detaching. With a NPD parent, I think detachment is healthy.
Your question about dating... I have dated. I don't know that "difficulty committing" is how I would term it, but I have not had a sustained relationship. I have ended several relationships for what I consider "good" reasons, but it could be some of both?
If your guy is all the wonderful things you describe, I think patience is your best bet. But I am far from a wise one on this topic!!!!
Although I didn't post I read regularly and to me
You, sadtoo , SoHurt , jjct became like a part of my family.
Your post about how to negotiate with an NPD
was excellent and reminded me of the divorce and how you get extremely skilled in learning this kind of communication ( hiding ALL emotions, keeping a friendly poker face ALL the time and trying to silently get your ducks in a row.
The zebra duck is still on the rim of my bathtub
Guess I was lucky that he dropped me and found OW. After all I have learned here we possibly can thank god we discovered the truth ( however painful it was and is) to be able to try to get to the other side.
I went to IC for 3 yrs and had my son treated for one year.
That also helped tremendously as both therapists knew about NPD and what we could do to minimize the evil effect.
In the case of my daughter letting the teachers and school counselor know also helped and I hope the kids will continue on their journey without being harmed too much.
My ExNPDWH's new wife is very dismissive towards me and started to devalue me in front of my children.
Interesting as she has never met me. Although it hurts I never say anything because I sense that my kids don't like her doing it and know the truth . My son said lately: you know , mum, she wants to be better than you in everything. She also wants us to like her more than you. That's why she gives us all the presents and stuff. But you are our mum."
I read also the posts of the new people here and would like to say to them :
Stay strong however hard it may be! There is light at the end of the tunnel and you will make it!
It's painful, hard and you should try to get all support you can but it's possible. This forum is great because of the people in it. You are not alone ( that helped in my case wanting not to see that he is NPD and finding out here that the regular everyday basis of my marriage was described here by almost everybody. My eyes were wide open after that.)
BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
Divorced, final 03/12
I have a question to all the "old wise guys" here:
When you started dating again, did you also have difficulties?
I met a wonderful person, reliable, nonNPD, caring... Kids love him... but I seem to have problems to really commit.
When I first started dating my new husband, I put him through the ringer. I couldn't commit either, so I kept putting it back on him like I was "testing him" or something. Looking back I chalk it up to NPD-fall-out. We dated for a long time, then lived together for a long time before we got married.
As far as the KISA goes, I think if my new H would have presented himself as that in any way, I would have run screaming for the hills. Any hint of a KISA completely creeps me out because it spells CREEPY-NPD to me.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
So that is normal after all! I guess life after narcissistic abuse isn't easy, as you aren't used to that kind of new life.
You are right about the KISA , but I guess the soulmate part really got me back then.....
Will try my best, knowing that time / patience will be good advisers.
5 yrs..... That's also good to know. That's quite some time....
How did your husband react when you put him through the ringer?
The one you love to be around,
because you know you'll be coming away with new jokes and crazy wisdoms,
you just don't want anyone to know you're actually related, right?
Yeah. That's me.
Now we know where your zebraduck went!
It's in Free's bathtub. Get 'er!
Whoever posted on how to negotiate with an NPD, I thank you.
I tried it out. One item that I really need, the generator, have a sump pump and if I lose power the house could flood creating a whole shitload of problems.
He kept saying he want the generator, it is his. I finally said, "fine, take it, take whatever you want, they are only things, easily replaced". Total reversal, "well, I will leave it here but it is still mine".
Okay, whatever. Still I will believe it when I see it.
Just wondering if I am seeing this correctly.
Lack of empathy.
Lack of remorse.
Expresses feelings of guilt with anger and blameshifting.
Projects acts and emotions on to others.
Presents a persona of strength, honesty, integrity, high moral standards, kind of like holier than though, superior attitude.
Acts contradict words.
Jekyll and Hyde, with little or no provocation.
Inability to maintain a long term relationship. Before me,(13 years), his longest relationship averaged 2 years.
Are these symptoms of NPD?
I was wondering if it was just the fallout from being a wayward because it seems so many of these behaviors are common while in the "fog".
They have been present throughout our whole marriage but just not as extreme.
I just found out after a year of trying to R that he has been "talking" to a new ow since August.
I felt that something was "off", that he was not fully invested. I would tell myself he goes to MC every week with me, why would he do that if he were not trying, if he did not want this.
Now I find out that he has been lying to everyone since august. Me, his family, his friends, our therapist, his therapist and the new ow. He told her we were divorcing back in Sept. We only started talking about separating two weeks ago.
Just trying to be prepared. Is this normal crazy of infidelity or is this PD crazy?
Soon it will not matter, thankfully we do not have children together so it will be easier to have NC.
I am taking steps to protect myself from him as I do not trust anything about him now. I guess I just want to know what I am really dealing with.
I would appreciate any and all insight.
I would now like to be known as Can!
dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
attempted R, it was all a lie
How did your husband react when you put him through the ringer?
He mostly ignored me. He's pretty laid back and easy going. I'm a little more high strung. He is really pretty wonderful. I'm constantly amazed at how normal he is.
I'm constantly amazed at how normal he is.
That is seriously the most wonderful thing I've ever read on here, and I think it belongs on the quote thread, except...hell, I'm not sure anyone else will understand lmaoffffff!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear CAN, I replied on your other thread, and you are absolutely correct - it will not matter.
He is a big old bag of fucked up.
That's my diagnosis.
My prognosis for you?
"Amazed at normal"
Dating? Twice I tried. The first was an immediate crash and burn because he was just as N as my ex! The beauty of having gone through everything I did, though, was that I nailed it less than 30 minutes into the first conversation we had face to face. Nope, sorry, NOT INTERESTED.
The second was more a recommended guy from friends of mine, and though he is very sweet and handsome, he was not the man I would choose to be with for several reasons.
So that's my total experience. I have no advice, just hopes and hugs for you. I think you'll do fine once you get past the first stages of relearning we all have to go through in almost every area of our lives after an N. You just have to trust your gut and come back here with questions when you need to. You'll be fine.
As for me, I'm just not interested in getting involved again. Raising my son is more important to me than anything else, and believe me, it's just as fulfilling. Besides, my picker's busted, and I don't trust even someone picked for me. I'm better off without learning to adjust to another relationship, and just don't see a need to complicate my life. Therapy is enough of a challenge as it is. And a teenager. My cup is full and so is my plate. Life is enough.
I am glad sadtoo came along to speak to this topic, because she is the one I think of when I think long term survival. She found NORMAL... so it does exist!!
Can, I am glad you are reading here. I have said before that if your crazy is duck or zebra duck or tiger or bear, the label doesn't matter. If the advice here fits, great!! If not, there is a bit of relief if the tribe doesn't grow by leaps and bounds. I personally wish there weren't so many soulless dead eyes with the intent of destroying a BS simply for being human enough to hurt.
Holidays are hard. ((((tribe)))) It is good to have this group.
Those of us who are able to cut all ties with the NPD are really the lucky ones (if anyone is.)
I'm still occasionally blown away by NPD behavior that I accepted and normalized during our marriage, when something happens and reminds me of an incident. But I try to focus my attention on me -- why did I put up with bad behavior for so long? What do I want out of my next relationship? What new hobby will I try in 2014?
Since he's had more than one affair, and is likely PD, he's not going to change. Spend your energy making the next chapter of your life a fabulous one!
Married: 11 years, no kids
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo
All the years that I tried to twist myself into who he thought I should be and it was ever changing, I feel like I ceased to be.
The "love" that he showed in the beginning, like nothing I had ever experienced. The gradual abuse and yes it was abuse. I would research abuse and then decide that I was overreacting. What was I thinking?
One extreme incident, a little background, I have a bad knee since childhood. To pick something up I have a tendency to just bend over, not good for the back but the knee just prevents me from bending properly, I can't get back up.
We were walking up to the door of my shop. He was behind me a little way back. I put my bag on the ground and bent over to get my keys.
We go in and he is furious, silent, cold, I could always feel his rage even if he wouldn't speak.
I tried to talk to him. He accused me of being sexually provocative. He said there was a man behind us and that I bent over on purpose to make him look at me. ?????? No matter how I tried to explain to him, his version was truth. He knew about my knee, it was not a new development.
After a couple of hours of silence from him, angry silence, I just couldn't take it.
I asked him to go home so that I could work. He refused so I left. I went to my sisters, I was asking her about this and if I was doing things that were inappropriate and didn't know it.
I went home and he was there. Crazy, drunk, calling me names, coldly calling me names? He could spew out venom and cut to the core in such a cold anger.
I had to leave, it was just too much. I went to my shop. He had destroyed it. It looked like violence, only way I can explain it. Paint thrown everywhere, phone out of wall, radio stuck in the ceiling, furniture smashed, just destroyed.
I called my sister and she came and called the police. They could not arrest him because his name was on the store also. I spent the night with her.
The next day, I was at the store, trying to clean up. He showed up, I was terrified. He hung his head and put his hands over his face, "what have I done? How could I do this?" I forgave him. He agreed to MC.
You bend over to get attention
I didn't do it in front of you so it wasn't that bad
You didn't see me do it
We went to therapy a few times. One night after another rage episode, a "minor" one, he refused to go so I went alone.
Therapist told me that she refused to see him again and that I should leave. I wish now that I had listened.
I was terrified to tell him what she said. I got the courage, he laughed. That was the end of therapy.
This was an extreme incident but there were so many. How could I have accepted this treatment? It almost seems like I was just living day to day, in a fog. Just surviving.
This is all so hard to look at now. What the hell was I thinking????
How could I have even attempted R over this last year? Why would I even consider it?
He has sat in MC with me every week for the last 10 months. He has shown no remorse. No empathy. When I asked him to put himself in my shoes his repy, "I can't, it didn't happen to me".
If I had a trigger, I have developed physical twitches, nice, it's embarrassing. He would either imitate me as a joke or get angry at me for making him feel guilty!
For the last 5 months he has been talking, texting and I don't know what else with a new ow. He has lied to everyone, family, friends, me, our MC, his IC.
Saying to everyone how remorseful he is and how much he loves me and want to R. How I am unable to get past all this. All the while pursuing someone new.
Why do this? Why not just go? I didn't beg him to come back.
It just all feels so insane. I was floored to see that he was lying all this time to everyone, pretending.
I think I am still processing all of this.
He bombed me with texts last night. Calling me a liar, selfish, manipulative and greedy.
I really no NC is the only way to get over this. I think I am only beginning to see the effects on me.
I have worked really hard on myself this year. It showed in my ability to kick him out the other night. I just have to be careful to not backslide.
It feels like it would be easy to get sucked back in. I need more strength. I have to remember the reality. Remember the bad and not the good?
Holy shit, this just feels crazy.
Sorry for the length of this. I just had to end my IC last Thursday for financial reasons. What timing.
There is no one in real life to talk to about this. They look at me like I am crazy. I feel crazy. I feel ashamed, embarrassed that I accepted this for all these years. I feel ashamed that I gave him a second chance.
I look back and I justified staying many times. I tolerated his horrific rages too.
The only thing that worked for me was NC. He was like a bad habit. I had to throw him out and never speak to him again. And like quitting any bad habit (smoking, etc) it was more difficult in the beginning. But soon became second nature.
You CAN do this. We are all here to support you
I am just sitting here floored by the truth.
I have been reading this thread since 3am. It is so scary. It's like we all lived the same life.
I just read "don't poke the bear". I learned the hard way.
This new found sense of self protection. Back in April, I stood up to him for the very first time.
I paid for it, physically. He knocked me into the door frame, broke it, I ran, he followed, he broke the door to get to me, he grabbed me and shook me like a rag doll, he threw me on the floor so hard that I hit my head on the metal bed frame and couldn't even move. He threw things all over the house. Insane.
More insane, I did nothing. Only told my therapist.
I had to tell my son yesterday. stbx was coming to the house to get stuff. I was afraid. Afraid to be here, afraid to go. My son couldn't understand why I was so afraid. I had to tell him. I hate seeing the look on his face. This is my son from my 1st marriage.
I feel ashamed of myself.
I allowed this by staying. Even after this, I stayed. Even though my gut was screaming, knowing something was "off", I stayed.
If I ignore his texts they seem to escalate. I am afraid of him. I feel like I don't know what he is really capable of. How far will he go if I stand up for myself.
I cannot afford a lawyer. I can barely afford to pay my bills now. I guess I will try contacting domestic violence for help.
When I hear myself tell my story, I sound crazy to me.
He liked it! He liked having the power to hurt me! It made him feel important that I hurt because of him! It made him feel good.
Lying to everyone got him attention. Poor me, I am trying so hard and she just can't forgive me. He got sympathy and attention. He got to feel good about him.
I asked him a couple of months ago about his lack of effort. He admitted that he was not trying very much. He said that if he tried and failed then that would make him feel like a failure.
I asked, if you don't try won't that make you feel worse? No, because I can tell myself that I tried.
I asked, you can lie to yourself and believe it? He replied, I can believe anything I want to.
It seems like you're living in the bizarro world, right? Nothing makes sense. So you keep trying. Because you can't even begin to grasp how sick this NPD "thing" really is. Then now as you read until 3:00am, it all clicks. Shocking, huh? The similarities. Many, many times we have all commented how we could be talking about the same disordered person.
I think since you are dealing with a violent NPD (as mine) you really need to acquire a protection order from the courts. You are going to need this added layer of protection. And since $ is an issue, I would speak to your local victim's advocate group for help filing for divorce. At least get the paperwork filed and get a PO in place.
So sorry you are dealing with this. Big hugs to you. But believe me, there is a better life on the other side.
Please stop blaming yourself. Our brains do all sorts of crazy things when we're in love. These monsters are masters of manipulation and get us to accept things that we never thought we'd accept. All of us on this thread have stories similar to yours. My friends, family, and IC are/were floored at some of the stories I told them of what XWH put me through.
I'm glad you're processing, but please be gentle with yourself. There is an amazing life waiting for you on the other side. There will be some really tough times in the interim, but you'll get there.
I can only echo what was already said. This is a journey none of us wanted to take, but we survived it, and now live in a world that is sane and happy. It will seem, at times, like you won't make it, but you CAN. Remember that. It's who you are. There is plenty of help and guidance here, and the (((((Tribe))))) is a home like no other. There is support, information, and genuine caring in this place, and hey... we even have drunk uncle jj, who is one of the most enjoyable voices in this house.
Keep your chin up. Go to your domestic violence center. Get a Protection Order. USE IT. (I nearly didn't use mine, and that would have let it all start over again, because he would have known I was too scared to keep going. Instead, he paid for breaking it.) Work on becoming stronger and finding out who you are. You CAN.
Love to the Tribe, and Merry Christmas. I am going through some difficult times right now, which is why I haven't been around much, but I'm still here and alive and kicking. It's the season of anti-versaries, and I'm trying not to focus on them as much as the rest of the season. Today marks the beginning of the hard times for me, but I'm trying to make it only about the new, good times.
I think this is where I belong.
I called victims advocate and they are going to call back to make an appointment.
How can you possibly process the insane?
Realizing that he was "gas lighting" me. Now my confusion makes sense but I still keep remembering conversations. It was all a lie.
He has been texting me all night. That has fed this anxiety.
I allowed him to come to the house yesterday to get his clothes. I left until he was gone. He just took random items and his clothes are still here. In the garage in garbage bags.
He wants to come and get them today. I think he is playing games with me.
He goes from trying to intimidate to self loathing. Things like "I am a defective person", "I will never love again, I will live the rest of my life alone".
It is better when I am angry, then it doesn't hurt. When the pain comes up I feel immobilized.
I suppose it is still very fresh.
I think that I just have to accept that I will never understand. He just does not think like a normal person. Thankfully, I will never think like him.
I am stronger than I was on my first dday, but not as strong as I thought I was.