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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 12
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:12 AM, September 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, Everyone,

Any advice on how to deal with an NPD during mediation?

I will be there with my attorney, she with hers, and a mediator. I really do not want to interact directly with her at all if possible, but might this be inadvisable? I know mediation is not the same as a hearing (or of course a trial), but I really want to avoid her blaming and ugliness.

Thanks!


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1472 | Registered: Dec 2012
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, September 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I arrived an hour early, it was scheduled 1st thing in the am, and popped a xanax before getting out of the car.
The waiting room was glass-enclosed - I could see it getting off the elevator. (high anxiety, thinking she'd be sitting there, she wasn't - shew!)

A guy from the back walked up to me, confirmed my appt. I asked for a separate room.

He asked; "Why?"
After declining the option to scream in his face, I told him; "It's like having to face your abuser."
His eyes changed, and he led me to a sep. room.

When the L and mediator arrived a little later, the mediator kvetched about the separate rooms, and how it would slow down the process.
Me; "I'm sorry, I'm not trying to make this difficult, I just need to be safe and away from her." (I wasn't giving in on my little victory).

I never did see her once, and the mediation went well for me.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 7:03 AM, September 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Abondad,

Most of my experience is with covert Narcs. They tend to be normal to the general public, but whisper little things to you, give looks or say something that has a double meaning that only you understand.

My Nmom behaves better toward me when there is an audience of people she doesn't know. The audience can be one person.

My XH is similar to my mom, except I had a female attorney and he views females as lesser than him. That attitude showed in the way he sat , in his circular talk, in his manipulation of his attorney (only sharing partial info).

Since he brought the lawsuit for CS modification it was up to him to prove it was warranted. He switched jobs to be closer to his home with NW and it was lower pay. In his mind. He was mind, he about to be let go, so I should be thankful he was proactive and found something.
Reality-he took a $1200 month pay cut in pay voluntarily, and expected the children to absorb most of it. He gave notice, TRAINED his replacement (during a hiring freeze) after a great review with a raise. Sure sounds like he was about to be let go. His employer could let him go BUT the position would still remain-its a federal funded grant position for 10 years-that was renewed earlier that year.

I had to prove he wasn't about to be fired, I supbeonaed his supervisors and managers. He supbeonaed a couple of women from work that he had inappropriate work relationships with to prove he was to be let go.

The weekend before the trial ( a year after filing) his old position was advertised online only. I happened to see it looking for a description of duties for my attorney . She used that in her questions-because he would never have quit IF he had KNOWN he wouldn't be let go, he enjoyed the 2 hour commute each way. Attorney told him the position was just advertised and he could reapply.

It was mind numbing chasing down all the ways he twisted this and proving his lies to the court, I needd the year to do it. And when the judge ruled against him- I got a 2 sentance email " You won. The judge believed your lies." Those lies were backed up with a mile long paper trail and credible witnesses.

I'm telling you the highlights, we had mediation with just us( didn't have attorneys then) a couple of times. We could not come to an agreement on CS modification. The mediator labeled me uncooperative . We were slated for a hearing before the judge and ordered to have representation. He acquired his attorney 1/2hour before the hearing. Continuance with an order for us to have a 4 way meeting to see if we could come to an agreement before trial. We met twice no agreement on CS . Trial scheduled. At the last minute (day before trial) he wants to negotiate. Attorneys negotiate we come to an agreement, my lawyer draws up the agreement(cancels court) sends a messenger to my office I sign- messenger goes to his office (2hours away) XH refuses to sign. Attorney calls me to tell me-negotiations and messenger cost me over $2k that day-not to mention lost time at work. I Insructed my attorney no more negotiations with him unless he was paying for her time. See them in court. All of the proof I needed to combat his lies revealed itself in the next few months before the trial. If I had it before the first trial date, I wouldn't have negotiated a reduction in CS. He should have taken me up on my benevolent nature.

It's scary, try to keep your focus on what you want your outcome to look like-not the emotions you are feeling. I know that helped me.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4050 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, September 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Abbondad, I was fortunate enough to have had my DV protection order in place by the time mediation was called for. In this state, if you have that order, there is to be no mediation, period. It must all be handled in court.

If you can't do that, jj's way is the single best way there is. Don't be afraid to use his suggestion, because facing the NPD in court is bad enough... in a small room, it's much worse. Our courthouse is too small for everything, so we have a modular courtroom, too. It's fairly small, and very difficult to handle being so close. Then there's the tiny courtroom on the first floor, which is even smaller.

Try to use jj's suggestion. That's my advice. If I'd been forced to go through mediation, I'd have done it. Good luck on this one. I panicked when I thought I had to go through it, then I looked up the law. If you aren't yet, get good at that, too. It helps a LOT.

" You won. The judge believed your lies."

Lord above, Kajem. Did I mention that at the hearing to renew my protection order, XN said to the judge, "I guess the first one to tell the lie gets believed, huh?" At first, I was really angry that he called me a liar. Then I caught on to what he missed in his own words: "...the FIRST one..." That's a pretty clear statement that he, himself, was lying. Bottom line is, I truly believe, now, that the saying I learned here is true:

Let them talk. They're the best player on your team.

ETA: jj, I second Sadtoo's statement. You are a gentleman.

[This message edited by SoHurt at 10:24 AM, September 13th (Friday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, September 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My advice would be to answer questions very matter of fact. yes or no, if possible. Don't get emotional.

And let the NPD do the talking. They show their true colors every time when they talk. And they all love to talk.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Elaine2012
♀ Member
Member # 36099
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, September 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Abbondad I just had mediation this morning with NPDPASTBX and I was worried about being in the same room also. In the paper work from the mediator I read that there was a separate room for any reason if it was necessary. I told my L that I was going to ask for that. She explained that M would likely try for us to be together. I arrived 15 minutes ahead of him and asked immediately to be put into a separate room. The receptionist made it happen right then without any hesitation.

Like jjct I heard this>>>

the mediator kvetched about the separate rooms, and how it would slow down the process.
.

When he came in he asked if there was a safety concern and I said "it was leftover"
(I have a hard time saying yes about it because it happened so long ago the impact last a life time). When my L was in the room he asked if there is or was abuse and I told him truthfully yes.
After that he didn't push it

I'm so glad I asked for what I needed to feel safe. Since my L had told me he would ask us to work in the same room I was prepared ahead of time how I would handle it so I could feel safe.

I left mediation feeling like this may finally be coming to an end! Stick to what you need.


Me- 53
WH- 57
Dday - Blindsided July 2012
Married 34 years; Sept 2012
Together 37 years
He doesn't want R.
In hindsight neither do I. For me adultery is a deal breaker!
4 adult DD's, 1 SIL, 3 grandchildren

Posts: 278 | Registered: Jul 2012
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, September 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you (((SoHurt)))
Deeply touched.

I found this on another thread & posted it in the quote thread:

...disordered people can spot me, "Like A Lion Spots A Limp!"

So apropos! It leads to the thought that what I have been trying to do in my time away from N, in my time alone...
I'm fixing my limp!


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, September 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...disordered people can spot me, "Like A Lion Spots A Limp!"

So apropos! It leads to the thought that what I have been trying to do in my time away from N, in my time alone...
I'm fixing my limp!

I agree 10000%! I'm fixing the limp I've had all my life, too. That's a great way to put it.


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mediation would not work with NPD-x. He refused to cooperate. Can you believe that? He talked in circles, he lied, and he would not follow through. It was a huge waste of money.

I also used the separate room, thank goodness.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2374 | Registered: Jan 2010
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, September 17th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much for responding to my question, everyone. Very helpful. I have no "fear" of her at all and have no problem going face-to-face. I also have good self-control. In fact, the more outrageous the lies, the more calm I become. Maybe it's a defense mechanism.

My attorney was originally going to a hearing for our motion for temporary orders. Then my attorney spoke with her attorney and they agreed to try mediation.

Now my attorney never heard back from her attorney. So she may be going before a judge after all. We'll see.

But ultimately I do hope we can settle via mediation.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1472 | Registered: Dec 2012
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does anyone know how to get in touch with veritas?? If so, can you check and see if she's OK? I sent her a PM a few days ago, but it has gone unread. She hasn't posted since June 10th and that was just a few days after a contentious exchange with her X about some money, so I'm worried about her.

Posts: 10976 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TIKY, Moo said Veritas last logged onto SI on the morning of Aug. 30. I hope everything is ok with her.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, September 18th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK. Thanks! I wonder why she's so quiet?? I hope she's OK, too!

Posts: 10976 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
brokenandconfuse
♀ Member
Member # 39381
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(No contact protection order in place)

My stbx has been very persistent in wanting to talk to me. He says that if we talk then we can work things out and not have to fight through the Divorce. He tries to go through my family, through my friends, through my counselor...any way except through the attorneys. He dropped off a copy of the temporary order with the Deputy and told him that District Court should mean more than County Court (where the protection order was issued from). He highlighted all the instructions for pickup and child communication. He noted on the Holiday's on how we should work those out and to please talk to him.

After the exchange, I realized that I forgot to get him his mail and my daughters car payment was in there, so I went to his Mom's to see if she would give it to him. Of course I was crying. This is all very hard on me as it is everyone. I talked to her about how I heard that he might be doing drugs, that he had another affair that he hadn't admitted to, and that he currently was with another women who is known for drugs and rumored to have hepatitis. She spoke to him later I guess and called me to say that he denied the other affair, but had been messing around with this other woman recently and had gone to the bar with her, but they have decided that it wasn't going to work. I cried all night. It made me feel horrible that he would be interested in someone so soon and someone with such a known terrible reputation. He text my friend the next day to deny everything and say that he loves me and we just need to talk.

Anyway, we normally have to do child exchange at the Sheriffs office, but this weekend my son had a football game and asked if they could just go with me after the game instead of going to the Sheriffs office. I said that would be okay. WRONG...

Stbx kept asking if he could just have 2 minutes to talk to me. I shook my head no. A few minutes later I went over to my car, with my Mom and my friend and sister in law to get the kids to go home. I knew that he would corner me to talk to me. That is exactly what he did. Said he wants to get along, but wants to talk to me. My mom said, she can't talk to you the rules are that you need to go through the lawyers. So he grabbed my daughter (9yrs old) and told the kids to get their shit and get in, that they were going to the Sheriff's office. My daughter said no. He said well Grandma just chewed my ass about the rules and the rules are we go to the Sheriff's office. I was just going to let him go. I figured it might be easier that way and with his temperment he might get in trouble, but my daughter kept fighting him and crying saying that she wanted her mom. He yelled at my mom and told her to stay out of it and my mom said well she is still my daughter and he said and she is my wife. My mom said, well not for long and do you want to add child abuse to this? So , I got up and did not say a word, but calmly walked over to stbx with a calm expression and gently and slowly pulled my daughter over to me. He let go and we headed back toward my vehicle. My legs were shaky and giving out so I had to squat down and regain myself. My son said, Mom my bags are still in dads car. I told him to go get them. stbx said bye kids I love you and then shouted I love all of you-throwing his hands up in exasberation. He kept speaking loudly saying we need to talk about this civily- I don't want to fight. He put up his hand in a "call me" gesture and got into his pickup. He drove away and stopped by my vehicle and talked through his window that we need to talk.

My kids were scared, my daughter was crying, my friend was crying. And me...well I guess I have gotten too used to this because I was just numb with a terrible instant migraine. My daughter said she thought he was going to take her away and she was really embarrassed because everyone leaving the football game was watching.

So, what do I do? Have him jailed for breaking the protection order? That will just make him furious.

Do nothing.

Give in and arrange a sit-down?

He text my friend. That was ridiculous!

He obviously takes no responsibility in his actions and no matter the consequences-it will be someone else's fault. So what do I do?

I called him Mom that night and said well stbx lost his temper a little bit. He broke the protection order. This is exactly the reason that we have the exchange at the Sheriffs office. Please tell him that I have already contacted the mediator and he should be getting the paperwork. We should be able to talk then, but he really needs to control himself and keep himself out of trouble. I could feel her defensiveness in her voice, so I know it fell on deaf ears. She said well you two need to talk. Nothing will be accomplished passing paper back and forth.


2DS, 2DD
BS-Me 32
WH-Him 43
DDay-All 14 years of our relationship. 3PA's, 3 one night stands, and 6 EA's and still counting as we go. Gained enough strength to face it 11/2012

Getting Divorced


Posts: 101 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You don't have him jailed.
The law does that.

Report what happened. With the adult witnesses. If the law wants to follow-up with your daughter - who was assaulted and traumatized - they will hopefully do it in a way that doesn't re-traumatize her (counselor, etc.).
Try to limit contact with the MIL - go NC if possible. You can be polite about it:
Dear MIL,
With all that is happening, I feel it would be in everyone's best interest, etc.
Polite and firm.

Your description, where you

got up and did not say a word, but calmly walked over to stbx with a calm expression and gently and slowly pulled my daughter over to me. He let go

sounded like remarkable strength to me, a scene from a movie, supernatural...
Gave me chills.

Way to go! Great show of great strength.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, September 23rd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Write out the details of what happened before time and memory start to work at erasing details. Contact your lawyer regarding what is the best way to handle this situation.

I don't think the kids will ask to change the drop off / pick up location in the future. It sucks that they will feel responsible for managing his moods, but then what choice do they have?

You showed remarkable strength.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4050 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 3:30 AM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And let the NPD do the talking. They show their true colors every time when they talk. And they all love to talk

Mine was (seemingly) mild-mannered bumbling professor type - very covert NPD - who didn't talk a lot, and preferred to suck up energy from others' conversation. It was quite strategic I now believe (as well as an expression of his inner void and self-loathing) as one ended up filling up the silence and either giving up too much information on one's buttons or helping NPD steal personality traits and empathy to present as their own. They study others very carefully and I latterly learnt not to give away very much, long before I even heard of the term or disorder.

Edited to add, I think his lack of chattiness was also designed to display an appearance of learnedness and sagacity etc, and was attention-seeking in both that respect and in its very quietness and reserve, still waters running deep and murky.

[This message edited by Edie at 4:05 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken, what they ^^^ said. You showed incredible strength and dignity, and that will be your benchmark for the future. Keep that picture in your mind, tell yourself every day that you can do this, and you will get through.

Honey, I know how hard this is, but you're going to make it.

DO report his break of the PO. DO follow it to the letter. DO NOT allow him to guilt you into letting him near you. I went through all of this, too... and the outcome made him stop bothering me.

Mine broke the order very soon after I got it. I was too scared to report him, so I called my BFF. She told me, "If you don't report it, then IT IS just a piece of paper!" That hit home. So, in front of about 150 or more people, most of whom knew us, I called the police. He was arrested within about 20 minutes, (had to do statements, then show them where he was,) and I went to the tent and cried.

Going through the lead-up to the trial and the trial itself was hard. But you know what was the hardest? Worrying about what others were thinking. THAT is what I worried about? Looking back, I don't give a rat's backside what anyone thinks. That order was given to me for a reason. In fact, when the trial was over and he was convicted, I had TWO orders - the DV PO I started with, and a Criminal No Contact.

You didn't do this to him - he's doing it to himself. They are their own worst enemies, and you can't do anything about that.

I know you don't want to do it. I know. But for the sake of your own and your kids' safety, you need to. It hurt my heart that your daughter was so afraid he was going to steal her. If you find it hard to take these next steps, think about what your kids just went through. You are going to have to report it, and follow that order to the very last letter.

Otherwise, it's just a piece of paper.

(((((broken)))))

[This message edited by SoHurt at 9:34 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
badd
♀ Member
Member # 23468
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^^^ THIS!!!

Posts: 119 | Registered: Apr 2009
anewhaven
♀ Member
Member # 34246
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, All,

I have a question for those who know far more about NDP than I do.

My husband lost his job three weeks ago. Since then, he has been nicer and kinder to me then he has been in the preceding three years. I am assuming it is because his ego has taken a severe blow, and he needs supply, so he's reeling me in, again. (I know this, so I am supportive, but not being 'reeled in'.

My question is, since he does not know he is NPD, and had probably never even heard of the word 'supply', is he being nice deliberately in order to manipulate me, or is it possible he's doing it all unconsciously?

Any thoughts?



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