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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 12
seekingclarity
♀ New Member
Member # 39676
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am late to the party, but I was reading an old article today about partners of the NPD affected and it discussed how it alters your brain chemistry (thus the PTSD symptoms). What was really fascinating was that it went on to relate the changes as being like being addicted to a very strong opiate and how you have an actual "craving" to be back in the relationship. You actually have to go through withdrawal like any addict. This information resonated with me because that was exactly how I felt. I felt powerless not to respond to my STBXH's text messages. I felt compelled to text him if it was more than a few days of no contact, etc. I had been in IC for about 6 weeks when he did the end around and filed for divorce and tried to have me served without me knowing about the filing. I found out about the filing before that happened and immediately went completely no contact, which I might not have been able to do if I had not been in IC. The craving to talk to or see him has gradually subsided. In fact, I now dread whenever I will have to see him or talk to him. I have a long way to go, but for the first time I am seeing real progress. The crazy thing? He has spent the month out of state with the OW, but he called one of the children and implied that he missed me and couldn't understand why I was not talking to him. Seriously? Do you have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, too? I know one day this will all be behind me and it will seem like this was a very long horror movie without the popcorn. Strength my fellow SI's! It does get better.

[This message edited by seekingclarity at 4:14 PM, July 26th (Friday)]


Me: BS (50's, but No One Would Know)
Him: STBWXH - PA/CA/NPD Serial Cheater (50's going on 12)
D-Day: Every Day?
4 Outstanding Offspring

Tragedy in life normally comes with betrayal and compromise . . .


Posts: 12 | Registered: Jun 2013
brokenandconfuse
♀ Member
Member # 39381
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I say that I was property because he told me that he always thought of me as property and an object. He married me for sex and wanted to mold me into the person that he wanted me to be. His words to make amends after becoming sober. He apologized for treating like less than a dog. He said he always thought of women as a tool or machine to be used and that it was animal instinct for a man to breed and animals do not just have one mate. Although he has always told me he loved me, I never felt loved and his reasoning fits more to how he made me feel. He told me that they wanted him and they came to him and he was always mad that I had forced him to have sex with women that he didn't love. Was infatuated with, but he only loved me. To me it is just flippin crazy!


2DS, 2DD
BS-Me 32
WH-Him 43
DDay-All 14 years of our relationship. 3PA's, 3 one night stands, and 6 EA's and still counting as we go. Gained enough strength to face it 11/2012

Getting Divorced


Posts: 101 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I can completely see that - you forced him to have sex with other women.
That would elicit the hidden laughter for sure with me - in truth, I might not actually have been able to hide it...if I had been drinking a liquid for instance.

When my pet talked like that, when I was learning, I swear I heard white noise. When she finished, I had a poketfull of innocuous, neutral comments that I used to avoid involvement. It's in the sincere delivery too, so they buy it, and drop it.

After awhile, it was the stupidest things: "Where'd you get that bathing suit?" "How did you get your ties, are you hanging them up?"
All were conversational levers to get me to open up something, anything about my thoughts.

In short, there is literally nothing to talk about - unless you want to expose yourself. NPD's are capable of turning a bottle top and a fork on the wrong side of the sink into a raging episode.

Master muttered phrases...the ones that feign interest, but "I'll look into that." (silently "later")

cg, that was Thren's from the last thread. It etched itself on me.

One of my favorite poets wrote this - I made one change:

As soon as the N's
can predict the motions of your mind,
lose it. Leave it as a sign
to mark the false trail, the way
you didn’t go. Be like the fox
who makes more tracks than necessary,
some in the wrong direction.
Practice resurrection.

Welcome here dad)))


Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I can completely see that - you forced him to have sex with other women.

I heard this also, the first time he said it I had no response. The second time, well he got my Irish up and I was a tad angry. I asked him when Did I put the gun to his head and FORCE him to have sex with her. Unless he can supply places,dates,times AND trustworthy witnesses. I would not be blamed for HIS choices.

It was a fun day in the neighborhood THAT day

Hugs

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It used to surprise me when XH would sink to new level of low

There is no low too low for the NPD. Most have to look up to see bottom. I made the mistake many times of thinking, "Oh he would never do _____." Well, yes he would, yes he could, and yes he did.

You actually have to go through withdrawal like any addict

Another good reason for going NC. It's like quitting any other addictive substance. You can't even have a "little bit" or you're sucked right back in. NPD's brain wash you. You are conditioned to respond a certain way. And there is NO WAY to realize this until you go through the withdrawals and stay away. Only then do you begin to see and accept the truth.

....he was always mad that I had forced him to have sex with women that he didn't love.

Uh-huh. That's a good one.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7925 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

seekingclarity... LOVE the name!!

jj, I missed it when Thren said it. I guess it etched itself onto me second hand. Some people have a powerful way with words. What are the chances Thren got the phrase from somewhere else??


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5288 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thren's a genius. She gets these things from within. Next to her, I feel like a borrower.
A craftsman at best.
Still, I have many etchings (*come up to my room and see them sometime* lol lmao!)

I grew up reading poetry by the hot air vent, waiting for the school bus. Macavity the Mystery Cat...by the time I read many years later The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock, I knew I recognized that voice! & it took me awhile to connect it.

The ruler-wielding Catholic school nuns had one use - they exercised my mind with memorization.

Straight is the line of duty.
Curved is the line of beauty.
Follow the straight line thou shalt see
the curved line ever follow thee.

There was a man once, a painter i think. When asked about what he gets for inspiration he answered that he doesn't like to look at anything.
Anything less than genius would sully his vision.

It is similar to why I live in silence and peace. And read and post here.

I just think that I sit on the shoulders of giants.
Who in turn, sit like children,
on the shoulders of the giant maker.

The world can't contain the books that he wrote you know.
They stretch tumbling into one another,
out into the stratosphere.

I may not be explaining it too clearly, it's like writing the final love poem - those dam simple stupid things that every simple poet writes!
writing the thing that says it
in a way where nothing else needs to be said,
but SI and Tribe surely truly and indeedly
is where my brain met my heart.

It's my safe place. GIVEN to me freely.
Sometimes I think there's not enough words in the world.
Sometimes I think there aren't any.

There's one thing I do know.
Any contact, reasoning, utterance, or expression with these NPD assclown pets is entirely useless.
They don't get any poetry no mo.


Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does Thren know we are talking about her yet? Three times and she'll appear right? I completely agree she is pure genius with the language. @ Thren, our gifted word wizard.

jj,
In my mind you have your own special place as the gift of laughter. It may not be exactly true, but my recollection is that you showed me how to see the humor in the dark place, and it did NOT have to be dark humor. And you made me LMAO with the etchings comment, keeping the recollection fresh.

I have always been a writer. All my life, expressing myself with language, particularly poetry was a HUGE part of who I was. That part of me died when I met my ex. It should have sounded warning bells. I should have turned away from that which killed the creative within me.

The good news is that the muse returned. Laughter returned. Sanity can be had. And the random trigger and the anxiety can be managed. They become a scar on the person we are, but a battle scar to prove that we are still here, still alive.

I agree. The answer is No Contact. For those of us with children, we parallel parent, not co-parent and thus NO CONTACT.

As always, (((tribe))). When I feel good about myself, I celebrate this place, and these people.

[This message edited by caregiver9000 at 10:56 PM, July 26th (Friday)]


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5288 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:09 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bakatcha cg! (((muah)))

I laugh because it's cheaper than going to the doctor - hahahaha!

One of my mentors used to say we're all geniuses, but that we get de-geniused as we get knocked around by life.
He said we tend to go through life rump-bumpingly into the future.

I think that had something to do with my reaction to exiting pet deathstar's orbit.
Instead of killing something inside me - it awakened me.
I had visions.

I'm convinced it happened because...well because after everything else that has happened in my crazy life...deep inside, I had survived. That old survival mechanism kicked in.

So, as close as I had come to 'losing it' - an opposite energy launched me away.
The devastating, soul-grinding pain was equaled by an inverse proportion of fuel.
It didn't come from me either. It came from God who loves me. I will never not believe that.

I had nothing to do with what I saw in those visions that saved me - remember, this has happened twice to me - and each time, and many times after, in dreams, and knowings, and certain silent whispers - I was...I guess it's best to say "shown things".
It's not me.

I have never spoken of these things here. They're too close, too personal, too raw. (in a good way). You'll have to grab a cabana sand seat next to me - and ply me with umbrella-looking concoctions to get me willing.
The good news is I'm willing.
The bad news is, it'll cost ya!
lmao!


Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Threnody
♀ Member
Member # 1558
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have always been a writer. All my life, expressing myself with language, particularly poetry was a HUGE part of who I was. That part of me died when I met my ex. It should have sounded warning bells. I should have turned away from that which killed the creative within me.

This happened to me as well. I'm a professional writer now. You'll get it back.

I have theories about why he tried so hard to dissuade me/prevent me from writing. I think it's because what comes out just... comes out. Uncontrollable by us, most of the time, and never controllable by them. I think he was afraid, genuinely afraid, of what I'd write, of seeing emotions in the writing he didn't tell me I could have.

He did this with my music, too. It never did come fully back. There are some pieces I can't sing, some set of scales or something that triggers me. I sing in church now and then, but with the understanding that I may well not be able to on some particular day because. Just, because. Sound diva-like? It's better than bursting into tears mid-verse.

Abdad the ab-fab, you're rocking this. I know it's overwhelming. You'll get there. I generally stay quiet on your threads -- you don't need another person laying on the lumber. I think you get it, I think you know what you need to do. You've just had your puppet strings pulled so long that you're unsure if you're able to walk across the floor on your own.

You can, and you will.

You've got a whole Tribe standing here declaring it shall be so.


“If you don't like my opinion of you, you can always improve.” ~ Ashleigh Brilliant
"Great love requires determination." ~ tryingtwo
"Don't try to win over the haters, you're not the jackass whisperer." ~ Brene Brown

Posts: 14039 | Registered: Jun 2003 | From: Middle-of-Diddly, TX
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seekingclarity, your post hit a nerve deep inside me. I believe it. NC for me (since xh and I don't have contact) is not allowing him to enter my thoughts-or something to that effect. This also applies to XSO.

I feel like I am back to square one. At least this time around I am in the right class with the right teachers.

Dad, I am glad you made it to our little corner of the universe. I was praying for you to find us. We don't wield a lot of lumber around here, most of us have been beat up enough.

Things lost from the x- working on getting them back- first and foremost is my body. Working on that will hopefully help the rest return.

One step at a time-right? Let the journey begin!


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Medical article released today about psychopathy and empathy. The lack of empathy component of the N is well established. What is interesting in the study to me, is that the study showed that that the "propensity" for empathy is proven to be less, but the ability under direct instruction to feel empathy is possible.

I honestly cannot decide if this is a good thing or scary as hell! The ability to turn on empathy, but to default to lack of empathy, I think could make the mind fuck worse. Could make the temporary remorse very temporary but all the harder to walk away from. Doesn't that offer false hope to someone who has fallen for a N?

Of course, the flip side is that if empathy can be taught then there is potential for treatment?? Of course the article says "no idea" how this would be accomplished.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/263964.php


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5288 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is scary. Psychopath's appear to have a mental switch. So when empathy is required, they can flip the switch and summon it.

We already know this, so do the N's. How many times has the empathy they show lured many a suspecting person back into the web of narcissism?

Really scary they want to 'teach' psychopaths how to flip the switch. They already know how!!

Yikes !


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kajem,

I know! That was my thinking as well. I also can't wrap my brain around the idea that the brain scan shows that the person experiences empathy when the switch is turned on. But that the default is off.

If you knew you could feel empathy and should feel empathy, wouldn't you want to? This feels like a circular argument and it makes my head hurt if I imagine it too long.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5288 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Threnody, Kajem,

I just read your posts. I'm "glad" to be here. Man, I have made it through nearly every forum except New Beginnings. (Circumvented Reconciliation, of course).

The other day I downloaded to my Kindle "Narcissistic Lovers: How to Cope, Recover and Move On."

Reading it was simply stunning. It sounds cliche, but as they say, it's like they were writing about me--or to be more precise, my STBXWW. Eerily accurate. It was chilling to read, and a great relief: "OK, so THAT explains it!" I say "relief" because knowing that "it" has a name, a diagnosis, helps me gain a sense of control and a way out.

What clarity. And clarity is what I've needed for so long, as I moved through what seemed like endless darkness.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1447 | Registered: Dec 2012
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you knew you could feel empathy and should feel empathy, wouldn't you want to? This feels like a circular argument and it makes my head hurt if I imagine it too long.

The sad part is " I get it" - what that says about me, I have no idea.

They can CHOOSE to feel. To be empathetic is to feel someone else's emotions whether that emotion is pain , joy, or even anger.

If I could flip a switch and not feel things-I might do it. I can think of some situations where that tool would be very useful. And I think our mind does it for us unconsciously in some instances, hence the numb after the shock. Accept EVENTUALLY our mind releases the offending shock piece by agonizing piece so we can feel the emotions, deal, and accept.

N's won't flip that switch-to much back log of emotions to wade through. It's easier to keep the switch in the off position- less painful. And they can keep control over themselves.

Dad - once you become aware - you can become unaware. Keep reading. And always remember N's make excellent con artists.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you knew you could feel empathy and should feel empathy, wouldn't you want to?

No. You would be sad because you couldn't.

And then you'd be angry at anyone who didn't understand your sadness.

(And then those anyone's would be somewhere receiving caulk gun awards.)

They can CHOOSE to feel.

Uhhh no my friend no.

Me lying facedown blubbering
TWICE? You telling me I chose that soul rending thing?

How I ACT is a choice. How I feel...is how I feel.
How did I feel when that girl bared her breasts to me when I was married?
Pretty much; "There they are." In a factual kind of way, because I chose to act.
Faithfully.
Look, it's not like I don't know it's a struggle in my mind.
It's not like I don't struggle through all this,
but my choice is to grab the front of the shirt of all my feelings and master them.
(am I channeling Rudyard Kipling too much here?)

I can choose to be faithful, and cleave to my highest self.
How I act is a choice.
How I feel is...

well I aint tellin.
we're close,
but not that close!


Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see the point you are making jj, and I agree. What we feel is what we feel. And Kajem, that is a brilliant analogy that we "shut down" in times of shock.

It seems the difference is the normal default for a person is to feel and to feel what other people feel. To see the blubbering mess of a person on the floor and FEEL something!! Your ex didn't. Mine felt arousal.

But what the article makes me wonder about is that apparently, when TOLD to feel what the other person is experiencing, the psychopath could turn on empathy and light up the appropriate parts of the brain. Soooooooooo, why wouldn't they consciously choose to do that every morning? OR every time they see someone a blubbering mess on the floor? Huh, for the N I guess no one else has emotions worth feeling, since they are their own world and the rest of the little people and their messy emotions are not worth turning on or tuning in for.

Will there be a drug to stimulate the empathy centers of the brain? ?What will that look like in reality?

Like I said before, I can't decide whether I am fascinated or horrified.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5288 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't decide whether I am fascinated or horrified.

Here's howIdealwithit.
I think

you want some explanation?

They haven't answered me
buttt!]they've answered you!
be true to yourself.

Like 42.
Be true to yourself is always the answer.


Posts: 5996 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:06 PM, July 27th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We know they mirror emotions, wouldn't those emotions light up the same receptors in their brains as a normal person?

Caregiver, my XH is in emergency mgt. He (and NW/OW) work disasters. Think MASH unit at a disaster. His job is to decide who gets help and in what order. It feeds his God complex. In some (horrifying) situations (hurricanes) he gets to choose who lives and who dies. Does he feel? No,

Can he mirror? Oh yes, he should earn an academy award for his portrayal of emotions.

I wonder if their performance also fools their brain? Their brain believes the lies they tell, say it enough it becomes truth. Why no the same for emotions?

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
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