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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 12
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember the craft contest! I thought it was a really cool idea( can't remember it now) and wanted to try it eventually. You did kill it knowing you would not win it. The contest was rigged!

The stuff we put up with in the name of family


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4045 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, August 20th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, we may not have won the contest, but we DID win by not having his mother furious with him, yet again. We went into it knowing NPDSIL would win, regardless of what she did or didn't do, and joked about it quite a bit. I wonder if they'll do it again this year, or if we really "killed it" and SIL will come up with something else to try to hurt H? Probably, but we'll do our best to not let her hurt him. *sigh* I'm wondering if she's going to cry to her mom about how bad her feelings are hurt because we blocked her. If that's the case and his mom gets mad, we'll create separate FB accounts, friend her, and never post on them.

Posts: 10976 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
Lola2kids
♀ Member
Member # 32789
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How would you feel if you were a simple uneducated peasant, and the people of a small country thought you were more than that - and crowned you queen? You'd feel like a fraud, right? If you accepted that role, knowing you weren't qualified, you'd be terrified of being "found out"... every moment of every day would be a reminder that you are NOT royalty... that you shouldn't be enjoying the riches of this country... that you didn't deserve the adoration and loyalty bestowed on you by its people. In your mind, these people made a huge mistake and gave you a position you didn't deserve.
How long do you think you could live with that kind of pressure?

JJ, I loved the post that you found (yay, platinum)

The quote above describes how we would feel very well.
The problem is: I think ex feels that he deserves to be king. He deserves the hot new girlfriend with the powerful job and money. That sense of entitlement would mean that they think they deserve everything they get.
I hope that doesn't mean that the rest of the post is not true.
I hope he will devalue her as well because she loves him and he feels underserving of her love.
I'm just not sure I will ever see it happen.

She will have to fall off the pedestal she is on right now. Possibly she will devalue him since I suspect she is NPD as well.
Do NPD's usually target other NPD's? It boggles the mind.

ETA: I've read the post several times and it's just hard to wrap my head around it. It's a process.

[This message edited by Lola2kids at 8:34 AM, August 21st (Wednesday)]


BS: (Me) 47
Kids: twins DD(9)
WS: Him 49 (X...together 12 years)
D-Day April 18, 2011, he moved out Sept. 11, 2011...
They say that absence makes the heart grow fonder
I'm finding that I am growing more and more fond of his absence.

Posts: 1226 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Ontario, Canada
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Lola - I was hoping it would spark some discussion, bc it speaks to me too.

I think it could be posted as its own subject *somewhere* on here, can't decide...
It's hard to wrap your head around, that's for sure. Lemme put a twist on what you pointed out & see if it looks like it makes at least some more sense...

On the Peasant-to-King thing, as I think about it, I'm not sure I'd be bothered by fraud-feelings. I *think* I'd look at it as a blessing, or an opportunity to do good for once...just speculating of course...you could try calling me "Your Majesty" a couple of times & I could get back to you?

The "deserves" part. I'm having more trouble with fitting the example into NPD as you pointed out.
Maybe the example is better fitted to an abuse victim who didn't develop a PD, or NPD...

...it still could be possible IF
the fraud-feeling would arise from the false self-image of self-loathing, I think...

Then again, I might just be full of it.


Posts: 6030 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Lola2kids
♀ Member
Member # 32789
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, JJ, I guess I am looking at it from my perspective.
I think that he liked that I treated him like a king, walked on eggshells and didn't try to tip the boat.
It was at the point when I started to question his decrees and speak up for myself that I saw the devaluation (is that a word?) process. I see it in hindsight and to hear him talk, that is when he became "unhappy". The emperors clothes turned out to be just some naked asshole walking around.

I think i see the post as it ends. I was rugsweeping myself thinking that the relationship I had was the way relationships should be.
I'm glad in a way that he devalued me. It kept me from devaluing myself.

(Please excuse the forms of value, I'm not sure they are used properly )

ETA: Your magesty!

[This message edited by Lola2kids at 3:41 PM, August 21st (Wednesday)]


BS: (Me) 47
Kids: twins DD(9)
WS: Him 49 (X...together 12 years)
D-Day April 18, 2011, he moved out Sept. 11, 2011...
They say that absence makes the heart grow fonder
I'm finding that I am growing more and more fond of his absence.

Posts: 1226 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Ontario, Canada
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The emperors clothes turned out to be just some naked asshole walking around.
That's it, in a nutshell!

NPDs will dance around in the shiny light of another NPD for a while, but it is difficult to sustain the reflection when you're looking in a silver-less mirror.


Posts: 10976 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, August 22nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jj, I'm jealous of your Platinum! I want it so badly, because I'd love to go back and look at how far I've come in all these years. I was the Queen rugsweeper... call me Your Majesty, Your Majesty. I think I'm probably Queen Mother at this point. (Are you loving the royal treatment?)

But seriously, that post got me thinking. I've read in several places now that our pets don't loathe themselves at all... they actually believe they deserve everything, are better than everyone, etc. For them, it's truth. Now, I'm not sure which camp I am standing in; I think one foot in each. Self-loathing or not? I don't know.

What I'm thinking at the moment is that when he was younger, XN was self-loathing, because he was raised in an extremely abusive home, by parents who did not see him as anything other than a burden. Dad didn't like his penchant for being obstinate, and mom didn't like that he resembled dad in all ways. (Imagine hearing "I love you" only once from your dad, and "I hate you because you look and act just like your dad".)

Caveat: this IS XN's version of events, which I no longer fully believe. Re-writer of History Extraordinaire that he is, he may have had a far less abusive life than he's willing to admit, but there are many siblings who agree that it was very abusive for all of them. And they all think theirs was the worst, so... who knows?

However, as he got older, I think he stopped believing they were right about him, grew thick scar tissue over those wounds, and truly began believing he deserved everything he wanted. No self-loathing at all, just a righteously deserving Entitlement Syndrome Master.

Opinion subject to change at any time. No notice required.

[This message edited by SoHurt at 11:06 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No self-loathing at all, just a righteously deserving Entitlement Syndrome Master

I see you've met my XH - the Biggest Dick!

He wasn't abused as a child, yet he did suffer injury. When he was 3, his mother had knee surgery-she was in the hospital for over a week. When she came home he wanted nothing to do with her. No welcome home hug, from a child that was a little hugger. He would not go nest her, she would make a game of it and hook him with her came and give him a hug. When she was finally mobile, he was stiff when she hugged him. She always felt guilty about how the surgery affected thief relationship, and he played upon that guilt.

Doesn't give him a free pass. But it can explain how a child's perceptions can turn something innocuous into a life changing event. MIL had mentioned the surgery as the time her 'Huggy toddler" became quite independent and she was hurt by the loss of her 'huggy toddler". It was a narc in the making.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4045 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, Kajem, I have.

With all the similarities, you'd start to wonder if we all married/dated the same guy/gal. I think it's bizarre how much alike they all are.

Well, at least I don't have to deal with it daily anymore. Another year and a half, and neither does my son have to worry about him. His 18th birthday will be cause for a huge celebration! TOTAL liberation day!

ETA: I loved the Emperor mention, too. I don't remember who said it, but it was great!

[This message edited by SoHurt at 10:51 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
Lola2kids
♀ Member
Member # 32789
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ETA: I loved the Emperor mention, too. I don't remember who said it, but it was great!

Aw shucks!!


BS: (Me) 47
Kids: twins DD(9)
WS: Him 49 (X...together 12 years)
D-Day April 18, 2011, he moved out Sept. 11, 2011...
They say that absence makes the heart grow fonder
I'm finding that I am growing more and more fond of his absence.

Posts: 1226 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Ontario, Canada
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just stopping in to wish a couple of Tribe members a very happy birthday today.

eta: Wow, that's big! But you deserve it.

[This message edited by woundedby2 at 6:37 PM, August 23rd (Friday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I question the absence of self-loathing in the full-blown PD.
It's an interesting topic to discuss.

Maybe you're not seeing it? Which surprises the heck outta me...

Thinking about it, I wonder...where does the evil come from?
Something that they hate.
That originates from within.

The products of abuse &/or abandonment are utterly predictable (in those who have not done the excruciating work to overcome that). Look at the FOO issues, is there abuse or abandonment?

There is a difference btwn an entitled spoiled brat & an NPD.
Trace the evil - where it comes from.
You will find self-hate at its core.

His Magesty...I feel kinda magic today after all!


Posts: 6030 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know, jj. I think, sometimes, there's simply nothing there.

Soulless.

Sometimes, maybe not all the time.

It's a difficult concept for the soulful to grasp.

[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 4:26 PM, August 24th (Saturday)]


Posts: 10976 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
curiouswiz
♀ Member
Member # 34405
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, August 24th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your Majesty;

Thanks for that thread. It resonated with me. I too, think it would feel fraudulant but I'd do my best to make it a gift to give to my kingdom's well being and offer the riches to the needy and deserving. Though we can be fooled there too!

Although I must admit to my self proclamation that I "Just KNOW I'm a princess!" Seriously. The first time I visited the Isabella Stuart Gardner Museum in the Fenway I felt as though I was finally at home....yep. I walked those halls and just knew it was home. I could feel the garments flowing at my ankles along the stairs.

Thanks for reminding me of those beautiful memories...

His Highness JJ....


God bless us, everyone.

Posts: 600 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Boston
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, August 24th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, jj, this is the one aspect of NPD that I just can't quite make up my mind on, as you can tell. Maybe I'm not seeing it, as you suggested. I don't know.

From all accounts, (but I'm not sure I can trust most of them, as they - the siblings - contradict each other often,) his childhood was bad. Really bad. There was severe abuse and multiple abandonment episodes by each parent. I can see how the possibility for being self-loathing is there, because he never would/will do the work to fix it.

I wonder, can they turn the self-loathing around, in some sick way, while becoming the N? Can they regurgitate those feelings of no self-worth and assume a new stance of self-importance? Do they have the power to change their supposed badness into REAL BADNESS?

You see where I'm going with this? The reason I wonder these things is that, realistically, I can't put a finger on self-loathing in him. Perhaps I did miss the signs, or am blocking some important episodes. (God knows I'd like to forget the whole dang marriage.) I don't know. Maybe it's as simple as I'm not looking, because I don't care why he is the way he is, just that he IS. I used to feel horrible for him, because I know what it's like to grow up abused. Now, though, that's been just a wee bit overwhelmed by knowing who he is.

I still feel sorry for him at times, but it's harder to do when I think about the things he's done to my kids and me, you know? I guess I'm not such an angel, myself... I want to have NO sympathy or empathy for him, period.

Maybe I'm just not clear on what self-loathing looks like in reality. I really have trouble with this concept, and I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm just so angry at him, I don't want to see it.

Does any of this even make sense?

ETA: Lola

[This message edited by SoHurt at 9:31 AM, August 25th (Sunday)]


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, August 24th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't see the self loathing , I do see no self worth. Which could be hidden behind the mask of entitlement. What if they use layers of masks?

I think this is the situation with my particular narc.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4045 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, August 24th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know if I would have said that I felt my N suffered from self-loathing. He never spoke poorly of himself at all. But he certainly had more than his share of childhood loss, abandonment, rejection and abuse. I can see where a child who was constantly told they are worthless, are abandoned and never felt the proper levels of security and love would surely have no self-worth. They would have very poor self-concept and could certainly be saddled with much shame and yes, possibly self-hatred and loathing. I can see that.

So maybe there are different types of Ns? Ones who are ruled by their own self-hatred and toxic shame, and ones who become the eternal victims who are entitled to special treatment and recognition?

Or maybe it's just our perceptions of the image they put out there for us. Maybe they are all the same at the core. I don't know.

My brain starts to hurt when thinking about the Ns.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
brokenandconfuse
♀ Member
Member # 39381
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do they always say I love you and I miss you, when at the same time they are prowling or involved with someone else?


2DS, 2DD
BS-Me 32
WH-Him 43
DDay-All 14 years of our relationship. 3PA's, 3 one night stands, and 6 EA's and still counting as we go. Gained enough strength to face it 11/2012

Getting Divorced


Posts: 101 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
HURTAGAIN1981
♀ Member
Member # 35178
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thinking about it, I wonder...where does the evil come from?
Something that they hate.
That originates from within.

WOW! Makes a LOT of sense. I am not sure what there is inside of him. I do think that deep down he probably feels like a worthless failure. The way he treats people, well there is evil there!


Posts: 296 | Registered: Mar 2012
HURTAGAIN1981
♀ Member
Member # 35178
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do they always say I love you and I miss you, when at the same time they are prowling or involved with someone else?

Mine kept saying that he missed me and wanted to try again all the time when we split for months. He was also prowling for someone else, hanging around other bits of skanky ass. Caught him red handed. They do it to keep you on the hook. To have something to fall back on and have someone there who 'adores' them. It's called Narcissistic supply.


Posts: 296 | Registered: Mar 2012
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