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Divorce/Separation     Print Topic    
User Topic: Abbondad Part 4...
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, August 24th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AD, I think it would be good if you could come up with a plan and calendar. Putting it on paper and saying this is what will work. On our custody day we each get them from this time to this time. Usually people split up the week in half, if they are doing 50/50. Not I get one day, you get 2 days, I get 2 nights, etc. That is not predictable or stable for children. Then need to know this day to this day I am at Moms and this day to this day I am at Dads. If she can't do that, then she can't have 50/50.

Am I misunderstanding or are you splitting several different days every week?


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, August 24th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dad, I think being a cooperative parent doesn't mean you are a doormat. I do believe in giving enough rope to let her hang herself. Document everything.

It is walking a fine line.

I wouldn't be a hard nose about it UNTIL I had a signed (by a judge) agreement that was enforceable. Then I would be a batch about it.

Be the parent that puts the kids first and can prove it to the court.
Any correspondence with XH I write with the thought that a judge will be reading this-how do I want up come across ? It is the only thing that kept me same in my emails to him.

Hugs,


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5017 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, August 24th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And it continues:

Text (paraphrased): "I have been called away on business. Can I drop off the kids in the morning? And you have them until Friday? Otherwise I can have them sleep at their friends."

(She will have had them for a whopping twelve hours after not seeing them for almost five days.)

This after all the bullshit today. With no "thank you," no apology, no text responses to me.

So, once again, SI: do I refuse to take the kids, hold firm on the schedule and even potentially get her fired?

Or take the kids (as of course I always want to do), document, and use it for the "endgame?"

PS: the kids will be very upset to be torn from her once again after so brief a time with her.

Kajem: I hadn't read your post before posting this. So clearly you'd advise I take the kids.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 11:36 PM, August 24th (Saturday)]


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Dec 2012
h0peless
♂ Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 12:19 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What's best for your kids? Staying with their dad or getting sloughed off on friends? They aren't a game.

Posts: 1657 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is where I agree that you take the kids and document all of this. Print out the text message. After you reply, something about I always want my children. You need to show the court how she couldn't possibly have 50/50. What I was talking about was the bulls*** of taking them late in the evening and returning them early the next morning.

Otherwise, she will have them stay with a friend and not tell you. Thus showing she can care for them on her 50 percent of the time. Be smart about this!


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 2:33 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes you take the kids whenever she offers (and you are able).

The idea is to show the court that She can't sustain 50/50 custody. The only way to do that is to take the kids when she offers. If you start taking digs at her in your responses, it might give the court the impression that you resent having to take the kids. You don't want to give that impression .

It's a fine line to walk. Each time she offers to GIFT you her time with the kids, take them with a smile . She could have them stay with friends, and you would miss out on spending time with your kids. UNTIL you have something in writing signed by a judge, sending the kids to stay with friends IS an option for her. She is choosing you knowing you are a better choice than friends.

Even if you are the easiest solution for her child are dilemma, she is giving you the gift of her time with your kids.

As for your responses to her, keep them business like. Yes or no and logistics only. No emotions, no i am the better parent, nothing more noting less. Then document.

The reality is UNTIL you have an agreement with a right of first refusal clause ( that is enforceable) she can choose to have the kids go somewhere else. Make it easy for her to choose you.

When it comes to x's time with my kids, Being a doormat works in the kids favor. I'd rather see them with a parent rather than parceled out to friends and feeling like their parents didn't want them around .

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5017 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
nomistakeaboutit
♂ Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 6:08 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your stbxw is selfish. Her job and her new boyfriend are her top priorities. Se loves her children and wants to be with them, but they are priority 3, or maybe 4.

Get ready. Your upcoming divorce will liberate her. You will be faced with this a lot.

Embrace your children. Let go of her. Focus on what's best for your children. Doing that will help you answer these types of questions for yourself.

Talk to your attorney again abut custody. 60 / 40 is not reality. She should get every other weekend.


Me: BH 56.........Her: WW 43
DD: 6..........DS: 4
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 942 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to everyone for your detailed thoughtful responses.

I texted her back last night a simple "I will take them."

And of course it's what I want, as after five days with them I miss them--and they are so happy to be in their home.

But I hate these "plays" and it just makes me sad still that a mother is not simply torn apart by not seeing her children more than twelve hours in ten days. This is not who I thought I had married. If I were her I would quit this job and find ANYthing--menial labor, whatever--that would enable me to be in my very young children's lives every single day.

Career career career. And "fun.". Always has been, I guess always will be. Just so sad. I don't even care so much anymore about the affair. Maybe it's because she came from a very broken home--"fathers" coming and going, her mom pawning her and her sister off on her grandma while she worked and traveled with her boyfriend. (Sound familiar? Trauma reenactment?).

Whereas I had a very close, solid, happy family life: parents married over fifty years, always there, both mom and dad, both making career sacrifices for their children.

Family is everything to me. Just everything. The greatest gift in life. This is why I fought so long and hard to keep ours together. I don't know if I will ever really get over this.

Sorry for these final musings.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Dec 2012
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Am I misunderstanding or are you splitting several different days every week?

Generally it's been: me during most of the week, then her on the weekends going into Monday.

But I say "generally" very loosely. It is constantly changing because of her job, which demands that she be "on call" to go out of town at the drop of a hat. So a consistent half-and-half has thus far not happened.

This is the problem.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Dec 2012
k8la
♀ Member
Member # 38408
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your next step is to minimize the "feel bad" about less than 50/50 to her.

No put downs. No "I'm the better parent". No jabs at her self-esteem.

You're no longer responsible to help her be a better parent. So don't step into that "parental" role with her.

Find a way to be cheerful and encouraging that she's doing her job. Work with your attorney on this strategy so that she will eventually willingly surrender the idea of 50/50.

Even if you don't think she'd ever do that. She'll have less fight in her, if there are no emotional jabs at her.


Posts: 137 | Registered: Feb 2013
million pieces
♀ Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ex and I fought have 60/40 and it doesn't honestly sound like she even has them that much. Not even close.

But be careful. I was a SAHM, took care of the kids most of the time. Even when he left, he only had them every other weekend. He cried, CRIED on the stand he want...needed them more to be a good dad and guess what, he got 60/40 (he was going for just over the limit to make it joint vs sole physical custody thus reducing his payments). And like you said, no doubt he loves his kids, but he loves his OW now wifetress more as does himself. The kids are priority #3.


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1241 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, just wow. I'm actually not really surprised, but the toll on the kids? Well brother, I think it might be time to re-evaluate your opinion of her abilities as a mother and quite possibly the 60/40 split.

Obviously, take the kids. You have damage control to perform. I'm glad you recognize this. Document and smile. Cry over what they are going through in private, use the time with them to create a stronger, better bond between you and them. Of course they are going to question whether their mom loves them or not. Be prepared with age appropriate responses.

Your lawyer will probably be ecstatic over this. You should have a pretty good case for primary or even full custody. I can't believe that her lawyer would even have the audacity to try to go for 50/50. Sigh, yea, I can.

Anyway, take the kids, start damage control enjoy the day. Lawyer update Monday.

Busy here myself!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AD - I am sorry this is so exhausting. Dealing with someone that has alot of narcissistic traits is exhausting, and that is what she sounds like. Whenever she talks about how important it is for the kids, she is talking about how important it is for her. I am not saying she is NPD, she may really love the kids but just doesn't even comprehend putting anyone before her self. That is what a good parent, read YOU, does. Hang in there! Hopefully, she will get really into her career and freedom when she gets divorced. I know we couldn't go back for modification of our decree for two years. I don't know what it is in your state but check that out too. If it doesn't work out the first time, continue to document and go back again.

I should have suggested this before, during my divorce I used a strategy of finding other things to fight about. I have seen this done in litigation over and over. I chose mostly money and where I would live, I moved away and refused to come back (even though I was planning on coming back). This way, he was less interested in controlling me by the children and more interested in controlling me by giving me less money and making me move back. I told my attorney after I lost over moving back, she said she was glad I didn't mention it but it was a smart strategy with such a difficult ex. It ended that he asked for less time with the children than standard because he didn't think it mattered to me. I never fought about the kids or brought them up. Your WW knows that the kids are the biggest point with you. Is there anything else you could start focusing on with her to draw her attention away from the kids? Unless you have D with a really narcissistic person, it is hard for people to understand what it is like. Meaning it isn't a game, but you have to implement a strategy.

Just my experience, so take it or leave it. Every one of us have had different ideas and you just take what works best for you in your sitch.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
homewrecked2011
♀ Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! She just gave you a big gift in my opinion! To me (and maybe the impartial judge) it shows she works very hard. It also shows that being with their Dad is the best place as far as custodial parent because of her work schedule.

And that is the main goal of your life right now. In my opinion every day SHE is actually proving that for your side.

Step 2. Continue documenting IF she calls them each evening. When she gets back into town how soon before she is there to get them?

Hopefully your constant care of their best interests will also get you final say in all the matters concerning them. (biggie).

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 11:43 AM, August 25th (Sunday)]


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2065 | Registered: Jan 2012
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AD,

Maybe this quote wii help you as much as it did me.

The only control I have over his parenting is - damage control!

I won't say I don't care about what happens on his time, because I care about my kids. I just realize that I am ineffective at any thing and everything when it comes to what goes on at his house, or what he teaches my kids about parenting.

I know I need to be the parent they emulate when they do have children. I don't want my grandkids becoming another generation of children being raised by self absorbed parents.

Hugs,
K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5017 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WW just left after child exchange. Tried to engage me on the driveway about custody. I would not. Stayed silent.

Then she tried tears, and then quickly segued into threats:

"If you think you are going to paint me into a corner like you are doing, you don't know what you are getting yourself into. This is your last chance."

And

"If I have to quit me job to have the kids 50%, I will."

(And she probably will.)

Very stressful. And I'm sure this is not "my last chance."

This will continue, as will the threats and her attempts to lie about my actions and character.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Dec 2012
LifeIsBroken
♀ Member
Member # 27071
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe I've missed this somewhere along reading your posts, but what kind of work is your WS doing ? Do you know for a FACT that these last minute out of town trips are really that or are they an excuse for free time with her OP ? If you don't know for a fact she's actually working maybe, down the road during discovery, you should ask her employer for an actual record of her out of town trips then compare them with when she has asked you to care for your children because she 'has to work.'


BW: 59
XH: 60
Married 34 yrs, LIBerated: 2/17/11
MOW: 50 (she said she wanted a sugar daddy; xh said, "I'M HIM!")
Actions ALWAYS have consequences. Too bad cheaters don't consider the consequences BEFORE they create so much damage.

Posts: 458 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Missouri & Massachusetts
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you know for a FACT that these last minute out of town trips are really that or are they an excuse for free time with her OP ?

Thank you. It was something i considered awhile ago but yes it's true (for once). I see the plane reservations to their headquarters, car rentals, reimbursement invoices from the company, etc.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1588 | Registered: Dec 2012
FaithFool
♀ Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, what an evil bitch...

Document that threat to quit her job. She just shot herself in the foot with that remark.


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17341 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
myalterego
♀ Member
Member # 32756
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AD, I think you've made great strides. However, you may shoot yourself in the foot if you are not careful.

Think about the end game... raising those kids to be happy healthy kids. How is this best accomplished? By you having greater than 50% custody.

How to get there?
- allow her to hang herself. how?

- don't be a hard a$$ about custody. She can't take them? Great. You will. Don't paint her into a corner where she starts them to have sleepovers rather than contacting you to take them if she can't. Be as sweet as pie about extra time if she needs it.

DOCUMENT the hell out of it... AND DON'T TELL HER!

You will never convince her that it is in the kids best interest if you have more custody... and quite honestly, you don't need to. Who you need to convince is the Judge. By documenting the times that she gives them back... the hours called to travel... the sleepovers when she has them... that PROVES that she can't take 50% custody.

Keep it under your hat. At this point, the war is over... you are post-war negotiating war reparations.

I like missymom's red herring above and something for you to think about. Instead of going hard on 50% custody... try to convince her that you are going after a greater percentage of house proceeds... or alimony... let her get her knickers in a twist over those things. Then, when it comes time to go to court, be ready with the 70% parenting time whammy.

You should going after the extra time with the kids because it is in their best interest, not because you will get more money. The money will follow if you can prove you are the parent the kids rely upon.

As part of that, be ready to graciously offer "if you have a night off during the week, I will allow you access for dinner (4-7pm)" and follow through. But it isn't a commitment... and that way, you are offering the parenting time (which she claims is the important thing) ... but yet aren't reducing the formal visitation (which determines child support).

You will never beat the sense into her head, so don't try... and give away your strategy at the same time.

good luck


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