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User Topic: Oh, how the mighty fall.
918Mama
♀ Member
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It kills me to be able to post in this forum. Turns out, I'm a wayward too.

And if I'm honest, I probably have been for a while.

I thought I was so much better than him. Than waywards in general. That I would never do anything to hurt someone I loved so much.

I could make a lot of excuses for my actions, but they would be just that.

Excuses.

I formed an incredible connection with another man about 18 months ago, who I work with. And it's something I owned up to in therapy this past year. Once I realized our conversations were crossing lines, I put boundaries in place. And have held him at a distance all this time.

And then the week before our 1 year antiversary, the conversations started again. Along with the feelings that came flooding in. I discussed it with my IC every week in therapy and when it became apparent that the feelings weren't going away, and I wasn't willing to cut off contact, I knew I needed to face the reality that my marriage was over before I did something incredibly destructive.

I asked for a divorce two weeks ago. And just in the past few days, have come clean about the extent of my emotional affair.

I thought, given the fact that nothing physical has happened, no pictures being exchanged, the fact that we live 5,000 miles apart...would somehow be easier for my husband to cope with. I was making a decision to leave one relationship before fully engaging in another. I thought I was doing the right thing.

And now, I'm watching him self destruct before my very eyes. I feel helpless. I can't understand why an EA is impacting him the same way his PAs did me. He can't eat. Can't sleep. Is an absolute wreck. And wants no support or comfort from me.

There was a time, last year, when I would have loved for him to feel a tenth of what I felt. And the fact that I was pregnant at the time, he had unprotected sex and exposed me and the baby to unforgivable risk.

But now...he's done so much work and has been so happy and healthy and focused. And I singlehandedly destroyed that.

There just aren't words to describe how shitty I feel. I hate that he's hurting. And I hate that I am no different.


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 485 | Registered: Dec 2012
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, how the mighty fall
I don't believe in this statement. We're all humans. None of us have super powers. Every single one of us are capable of the "unthinkable" and of falling.

I thought, given the fact that nothing physical has happened, no pictures being exchanged, the fact that we live 5,000 miles apart...would somehow be easier for my husband to cope with.
Betrayal is betrayal. He stabbed you in the heart with an ax. You stabbed him in the heart with a machete. The point is, you both used weapons, they both hurt, and you're both bleeding out. There is no comparison. Comparing pain only causes more hurt. By comparing, you are belittling or diminishing the other person's feelings and pain.

I formed an incredible connection with another man
Yeah, it's called broken and unhealthy. You both created a fantasy based on a facade. It ain't real. You know the unicorns and rainbows people talk about all the time? That's what an EA is. It's giving the "best" and most flattering of yourself to the AP. They don't see the 'real' you.

I knew I needed to face the reality that my marriage was over before I did something incredibly destructive.
The moment you let your guard down and chatted it up with the AP is when you started the destruction. You didn't wait till the M was over. You started the destruction before then.

I was making a decision to leave one relationship before fully engaging in another. I thought I was doing the right thing.
There's a problem with this. You made the decision without telling your husband. He didn't know beans till the destruction was already happening.

So, are you still going forward with the D? What exactly is your plan? To uproot your kids and move 5,000 miles away to a person you only know thru fantasyland?

Is the AP married?

Are you NC yet?

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 1:19 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6041 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

918, Aubrie brought up an excellent point. I know I pissed more than a few off when I stated BS doesn't belong on a cape. It means betrayed. That's it. Doesn't impart sainthood.

Do you think you'd be "done" with your marriage if you didn't have a plane on the tarmac?

Many people actually break up that way. I think sometimes it's because we tend to bullshit ourselves. Things aren't that bad, really. They aren't. Right up until an escape pod lands in our laps then it's lists for days. Those issues may be very real but not looked at because it would be too painful, they may be magnified, or they may be invented...any combination can fit as well.

Thing that affairs do is make three dimensional things split. The affair gets all the good feelings and energy while the marriage becomes the dumping ground of the bad.

I would challenge your statement you've "held him at a distance". I doubt that very much. I'm sure he was there absorbing the above dynamic without even interacting with you. It's so much easier to create a "happy place" pocket when you're the soul author.

Now, in connection with your "how the mighty fall" just a gentle (well, maybe not so much) get over yourself. I see that in your statement that he's done so much work to be healthy and happy and you "single handedly" destroyed that. Sorry. You don't have that kind of power. Just as his choices had nothing to do with yours neither do yours. Of course he's hurt and pissed. He should be. Very appropriate and healthy. If he truly did the work he'll hurt, be pissed, and deal. Life is full of people fucking with us. Doubt he'll curl up and die without you and if he does he didn't do the work for himself to begin with.

That's why I start twitching when I hear the DO MORE....WHATEVER IT TAKES FOR YOUR BS AND MARRIAGE. yeah, doesn't work. Never will. If you don't do it for yourself the BS, the marriage, and "you" got nothing but stage setting and props.

Many people could post in this forum. They don't take the hard look which starts the healthy growth. I LOVE this forum. Saved my life. Can't quit it.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
JustDesserts
♂ Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, it's called broken and unhealthy. You both created a fantasy based on a facade. It ain't real. You know the unicorns and rainbows people talk about all the time? That's what an EA is. It's giving the "best" and most flattering of yourself to the AP. They don't see the 'real' you.

Aubrie and her darn truthtelling again. I plan on ignoring her comments as soon as I hear one that isn't spot on. Don't let it go to your head, Aubrie. My 2x4 welts from you still hurt...and I appreciate each and every one.

Listen closely, Mama. You might not like what you hear, but you likely need to hear it!

JD


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
918Mama
♀ Member
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you aubrie. I don't want to minimize your feedback or questions. I'm struggling with how to answer some of them without making it seem like I'm in denial or the fog or any of that.

First and foremost, there's nothing more than a really great friendship happening between me and this man. I struggle with even labeling it as an EA because it's not "I love you, you love me, let's make really inappropriate decisions together."

And no, I have no plans of uprooting my children and moving 5,000 miles away. They have an amazing father. I grew up without one. I have that perspective and would never take them away.

And it's also not here's the good in me, show me the good in you. We talk about everything - good, bad, ugly. That's why I'm willing to call it an EA because those are conversations that can lead to feelings (and have) which lead to much worse.

What I realized from this relationship is that there is so much missing from my marriage (which I knew) that is actually possible to have with another human being - which I didn't realize. My husband and I have been together since I was 16. I'm 35. Neither one of us are the same people we were then and truly, the differences are painful.

That's a lot of what I have been working on in IC this year - understanding how disfuctional things really were and trying to figure out if there's a space to move forward in a healthy way. What I know now is that I want someone who brings out the good in me, not the bad all the time. Someone who roots for me, not competes with me. Someone who values my input, not looks at me like a 16 year old child still. Someone who isn't 5000 miles away.

I'm trying to be completely transparent in therapy. I'm working to understand all of this. I'm not perfect, or better. My comment about being mighty was just that infidelity was so completely deplorable to me and I felt like I was above it because I did set boundaries. I was aware of the risk and took the necessary precautions.

And then something broke inside me when I found out how much infidelity and lying existed in my marriage.

None of that matters I suppose. I hurt someone I love. I didn't mean to and I wish I could undo it. That's what I can't wrap my brain around.


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 485 | Registered: Dec 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mama,

You and I have talked, so I am going to try not to hit you with too many 2x4's.

Figure out why you titled this thread this way.

Second, I get that you may be having a problem labeling it an EA, but you shouldn't be. It was. Why? Because you soaked emotional energy into another person that belonged to at least yourself if not your marriage. Before you did that, you should have asked for a D. You didn't do that. You were having a secret relationship with another man. Was your H aware of all of these conversations? Did he know what was going on with you and him? Had he met him, was he in on this? Or were you keeping it secret? Those answers will tell you what you need to know.

Look at your last post and see what is wrong with it. You are looking for someone else to make you feel things that you should be looking inward for. That is for you to take care of, not a partner. Fix you. Heal yourself. Then decide what you want.

Hardlessons did this exact same thing to me. It sucked. Thank god I had started to fix me, hopefully your H gets it enough to know that you are broken and this isn't about him.

Stick around here, there are people that can help. Wayward is the best place to fix your shit. Welcome.

[This message edited by tired girl at 1:56 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4451 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there's nothing more than a really great friendship happening between me and this man. I struggle with even labeling it as an EA because it's not "I love you, you love me, let's make really inappropriate decisions together."
No. There's more than a "really great friendship". I think you know that. An EA isn't always "I love you" crap. An EA can be a "really great friendship" with people. You emotionally invested yourself into this guy and didn't tell your husband. You became addicted to his words and the way you felt with him. He "opened your eyes" to things you didn't know could exist in a relationship. You needed his friendship so much that you don't want to establish NC. How is that not inappropriate?

Oh, and we don't get cookies for being honest with our APs. Even if he knew the ugly and bad of you, still doesn't mean anything. You opened up to another person. You invested time, energy, and emotion into him. Those are things you could have been investing into your relationship with yourself and your husband. Maybe if you had, your relationship with your husband would be more of what you never thought possible.

T/J - JD, welcome to WS. The lumber mill runs 24/7. And no steel toe boots or hardhats are distributed. End T/J


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6041 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there's nothing more than a really great friendship happening between me and this man.

does he know you're married? If so, he's no great friend. Is he married? If so, neither are you...


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4445 | Registered: Dec 2010
myownmaster
♂ New Member
Member # 35317
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You say your WS has done so much work and is as healthy and focused as ever. You also say you don't want to be in this kind of marriage anymore and that you're treated like a child.

Not exactly contradictory (one can improve in some areas while still lacking in others), but what positives has his hard work brought to the marriage and what exactly is still lacking?

Also, what is this other guy doing to allow you to see clearly where your marriage is at right now? Or do you think he has no sway on how you view the marriage? Having someone to compare to is not bad in itself, but do you think in this case, it's allowing you to have an honest view of your marriage?

Ignoring the fact that talking to this guy is wrong, let's assume that ya, he does some things better than your husband. Have you had talks with your WS about this and are these things he is working hard on? Do you think looking at someone who may be an A student in a specific area may make you not appreciate someone who is only a C+ but is getting better at it?

If you want to divorce then you want to divorce, but do you think you will respect where YOU are in life down the road with this OM in your life? Are you confident that your WS won't be in a place down the road where you wish you had given it more time?

What positives and negatives do you see if you cut the OM out of your life and focus only on your marriage? Now if you divorce your WS and continue with your OM?


Posts: 46 | Registered: Apr 2012
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You cannot make clear decisions about your M while still in contact with OM.

You asked for a D while in the throes of your EA?

Get OM out of the picture---100% NC, work on your M, and then when there's no OM, you will have better decision-making abilities.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 36499 | Registered: Sep 2007
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you were sharing

good, bad, ugly

and

conversations that can lead to feelings (and have)

with a man other than your H while you were married to him, you betrayed your H. Your AP helped to hurt your H. Why would you be able to keep any positive thoughts about someone that could help you cause that damage?

You seem to be saying good things about your H and the work he's done and then turning around and saying he's treating you badly. Something isn't matching up. Is it even the slightest bit possible that you're looking through fogged eyes and seeing what you want to see? Perhaps you need to justify the fact that you were able to develop a connection with someone else? On the flip side, maybe you really don't believe he's done all the work he can. Still doesn't justify betraying him.

Not trying to judge, just dragging the water to see if any bodies come to the surface.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 545 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
♂ Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW, this:

I thought I was so much better than him. Than waywards in general.

is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to the slippery slope.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 545 | Registered: Jun 2011
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BH Here. just a quick time line question, did you begin your relationship with the OM prior to your husband's affair? I don't want to start the whole chicken and the egg argument or whose was worse, I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your husbands perspective


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2534 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought I was so much better than him. Than waywards in general.

You are the sum of your parts. It doesn't make you better the anyone. When I read that all I thought was wow someone's sliding fast. Oh and you had an EA, no I love you's were exchanged between my SO and his OW but their actions still cut to my core. The most telling statement for me was:

What I realized from this relationship is that there is so much missing from my marriage (which I knew) that is actually possible to have with another human being - which I didn't realize.

Read that line and tell yourself again that it's just a great friendship.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2622 | Registered: Oct 2012
918Mama
♀ Member
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok...so much truth spoken here. Thank you! And so many questions. I will try to cover the highlights, with the caveat that some details have yet to be discussed with my H that he deserves to hear first, which happens in therapy tomorrow.

First, the title of my post. I think maybe UO and long road home got what I was saying. I don't think I'm mighty or better than...anymore. I'm saying I did feel that way - always. I mean, honestly, I was in SI about 5 seconds, railing on wayward mindset before meta flagged me and warned me to chill out on the wayward bashing.

I did wear the bs label on a cape. And because I allowed myself to feel like I was better than, I went further in what I believed was acceptable because I knew I could handle it. Cuz you know...I would never be "that person".

Trouble is? I already was. Looking back over our entire relationship, I think I've always had that wayward thinking and had one toe in the water. What I justified to myself is that "I would never cheat". Translation: I would never have sex with anyone besides my husband. Obviously I needed to broaden my horizon on the definition of cheating. I get it.

Did my cheating start before my husband's? Well the emotional affair didn't. He was already on OW#2 of 4 when it first started.

When I realized it was crossing boundaries because I did have feelings for him, I really truly did go NC. I also brought it up in therapy, told my boss, and implemented a plan for avoiding him when he was in town because I knew I couldn't be trusted to maintain nc on my own if we were physically in the same space.

Yes he is married. Yes, I know it's wrong. Yes I know I need to be NC. Yes I'm dilusional enough to think I can still maintain boundaries and have a friendship with him. These are the things I'm working on in therapy. Trust me when I tell you I'm peeling back the layers of ugly to deal with this. No 2x4 you swing will hurt worse than the way I'm already beating myself up.

If you read back over any of my posts as a BS, you will see that the reality is, this has been a deal breaker for me from the start. I've never committed to R or really working on my marriage. I agreed to give it a year, on the advice of my MC and to acknowledge the fact that I was in too much pain to make rational decisions. The intent of therapy has really been IC and dealing with our own shit. MC has been few and far between, and I've been emphatic about the point that our marriage is broken, I don't consider myself married and I don't know what's going to happen.

What's unfair about that is that I continued to live with my husband and experience the many benefits of being married, which obviously has left him confused as my words and actions don't match.

I believe the word for this is cake eating? Yeah. That's me.

The work my husband has been doing has really be around the person he is. And eliminating aspects of the bad behaviors he used to exhibit. So while I've watched him make a ridiculous amount of change, I've come to the point where I realize that it's never going to be enough. Because ultimately, what he did was a deal breaker for me.

While he as a person has changed, the way he interacts with me - the problems in our relationship that were always there - haven't. And it's probably because we've never done the real work on our relationship. But ultimately, no matter how much change happens, we are always going to be two very different people. And that's where so much resentment has built in our relationship.

Am I afraid that I'm going to miss out on something fabulous with him? Of course. But I know for sure that I am stuck. That I have been stuck, long before the EA started again, that I can't forgive him for the inordinate amount of pain he caused me and that I need to do something to get unstuck. So, the divorce is the next step for me.


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 485 | Registered: Dec 2012
TheBestMe
♀ Member
Member # 39476
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mama...this man is in a committed relationship? You know that you are hurting from your husband's affair. Would you want to willfully inflict that degree of pain to another person? Moreover, the character of the AP must be scrutinized.
If legal dissolution of your marriage occurs, you are then free to see a free and available person. If not, then both parties need to evaluate themselves.

This EA is not free to consider a relationship outside of the one that he is in.


ME Doing Better
WH Trying As Best He Can
Married 23 years
Status: Working towards friendship
D Day #1 - 2007 My gut told me
D Day #2 - 2010 His D told me
D Day #3 - 1/11/2013 OW Confirmed
LTA 7 years

Both feet pointed forward; positive


Posts: 372 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Inner Peace
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 2:49 PM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

918Mama,

What are your plans for NC with OM?

The wayward forum description includes:
A forum for all Former WS's who have ended or trying to end their affairs and are striving to reconcile.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes he is married. Yes, I know it's wrong. Yes I know I need to be NC. Yes I'm dilusional enough to think I can still maintain boundaries and have a friendship with him.
You do realize that you've already waltzed over the boundaries right? To late to fix it back to "just" friendship.

I've come to the point where I realize that it's never going to be enough. Because ultimately, what he did was a deal breaker for me.
Can you say that with 1000000% clarity? Because your mind has been muddled with your own AP for 18 months. Your own deficiencies are leading you right now. Are you really in a position to say that your husband's actions are totally unforgivable and your done when your foot's already been out the door for a year and a half?

Do you really think you're in a position of "thinking clear" and "making the right choice" as long as you're clinging to this dude? Are there any plans on informing this guy's wife what you two have been up to the past 18 months?


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6041 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
cinnamongurl
♀ Member
Member # 37879
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just another timeline clarification, mama, you said your EA began during WH's As, so, was this before or after dday? Maybe I missed something and am off base here, but it Seems to me, you were both very broken people, but your H was the only one taking steps towards being a healthier person. Seems to me you had checked out of this marriage before dday. Why lie and let him do all the work while you continue on in your own EA? Seems kind of hypocritical, no?

Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you, please start with ending this EA, like yesterday!!! OM's poor family does not deserve this! Please please go NC and don't look back. Their lives are not yours to destroy any more than you already have! Then really start working on yourself! You'll never heal if you dont break this self centered , self destructive cycle of cheating with a married man.

When and if you decide to end your EA, I know that there are a ton of wise folks on here that will help support you in this difficult journey, whether with praise, advice or even constructive 2×4s. But you can't begin that journey until you begin NC. Best of luck to you and I really hope that you can establish and keep NC. Whenever you feel the need to contact him, just remember he's married, and you are the OW in his A.


Me: 36 fWGF He: 35 BBF and my heart
Together 17 yrs. "You were sick, but now you're well again, and there's work to do."
Kurt Vonnegut



Posts: 502 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: home with my heart.
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You cannot make clear decisions about your M while still in contact with OM.
You asked for a D while in the throes of your EA?
Get OM out of the picture---100% NC, work on your M, and then when there's no OM, you will have better decision-making abilities.

I agree with AN. It's worth repeating.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 11:16 PM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
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