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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Rudderless, loveless, all the way in and still lost.
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Greetings all!
After almost four years and ALL the typical scenarios I find myself no the wiser.
FWW and I have two kids at home. We both want our family to work, we like our lifestyle, we get along, we function as a team -yeah, we do all right.
Yet, it's a loveless marriage, or rather -a sexless marriage. She will let me service myself if I want/need from time to time but there is no intimacy and without it it is not so interesting for me as I feel it only succeeds in pushing us farther apart. No mutual passion. No fun. No playfulness. Nothing light or easy. Our sex life has been so infected and tangled that we are clueless and/or unwilling to face/confront the issue.
I feel that I will never be special to her in the way I want. I still desire her and find her attractive but without a 'physical dialogue' I find myself feeling lonely.
I want to keep our marriage together because I still live her (!) and for our kids.
I'm not even sure what's question is. I guess it is "how do I survive infidelity?' How can we reconcile?
Can we find our way back to each other after multiple A's and lies and all the rest.
Maybe all I need is a empathetic ear.
God speed to you all!!!

Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
lieshurt
♀ Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there is no intimacy

I'm sorry, but that just isn't something I could live with. Life is too short to do without intimacy. Being loved and desired...to have someone passionately want you...is part of the great benefits of being in a committed relationship.

What will you do if this doesn't change? Are you willing to remain in this unhappy position? Or, are you willing to do what is necessary to find your happiness?

[This message edited by lieshurt at 3:46 PM, July 8th (Monday)]


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13745 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What will you do if this doesn't change? Are you willing to remain in this unhappy position? Or, are you willing to do what is necessary to find your happiness?

Apparently I am, for now as I want to raise my children but its a struggle. There is affection, and kindness and familiarity yet there has developed too much pressure around our love life. She can turn her sex drive off. i can not and but it is making me very unhappy and and I myself becoming bitter -something I never thought I would allow myself to indulge in. Problem is, our life together is just tolerable enough, not too awful, and there are enough good and even beautiful moments to keep hope (or is it denial?) alive. And so I continue to marinade in this perfect little shit storm and hope things will break for the better. Thanks for the reply.

[This message edited by Alex1 at 4:13 PM, July 8th (Monday)]


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Alex1,

It does not seem right to write Nice to see you when the issue is your FWW being asexual, but nice to hear that other parts of your R are going well just the same.

The IC/MC types told me that sex is the first theing to go and the last thing to return where there are problems in the relationship, but it seems like enough time should have passed in your instance given that the other aspects of your relationship with her seem good.


What does she say when you ask/talk about this? What does MC or better yet, her IC say, about this?

When you say no fun, no playfulness are you referring only to the physical aspects, or the M as a whole?

--Ats


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4128 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Garnet
♀ Member
Member # 39070
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You need to tell her how you feel!! Communicate your feelings so you won't get more bitter over this!! The sooner the better!!!


Garnet☀

Posts: 84 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: MA
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Double posted

[This message edited by Alex1 at 5:01 PM, July 8th (Monday)]


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dearest Ats! Thanks for the reply brother.
The last time we attended MC was over a year ago. We went, found it helpful and yet we did not follow through with the suggested exercises, homework, etc. I refused to continue as we were inconsequential and thus it was a waste of money. We have talked about going again but neither of us has made the call.
We are coasting...coasting.
Neither of us are in IC.
if it weren't for the lack of engaged sex (and my occasional triggering and souring the mood) we have it pretty good. We can enjoy our kids, our home, our vacations, our pets. If I live 'in the now' then things are pleasant.
However, I doubt I will ever feel that I am special to her (as I once was). Though she insists I am. Sadly I have learned not believe what she says, only what she does. She knows very well my feelings and how important sex is to me but can't get herself to engage, and it goes around and around. As I said, she does not refuse me sex, it just that sex with her has become hollow and one sided and so I rarely initiate anymore. Neither does she. It's not all her fault. We both are to blame.
One day we make plans and dream of a future together, an hour later and I want to leave her and never look back.
And for some reason I am still in love with her. Though loves evil twin lurks in the shadows slowly infecting what is left the good.
Reading this I realize it's time to head back to MC.
Neither of us wants to D.

[This message edited by Alex1 at 5:06 PM, July 8th (Monday)]


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alex1,

I think I am picking up a theme, correct me if I am wrong.

..., an hour later and I want to leave her and never look back.
And for some reason I am still in love with her.

So how do you rationalize these two statements? Why would you think to leave and never look back upon a woman you have a family with and love?

we did not follow through with the suggested exercises, homework, etc.

I doubt I will ever feel that I am special to her

...so I rarely initiate anymore.

What I picked up, as illustrated by your quotes, is a number of items that are on you to address. Not initiating sex because it feels hollow to you, not feeling special to your FWW, not following through with IC assignments, these are all things you can control and fix if you wanted to.

I have learned not believe what she says, only what she does.

This too is yours to change if you want to. What has she done over the last 3 years?

We both want our family to work, we like our lifestyle, we get along, we function as a team...

...attended MC was over a year ago. We went, found it helpful...

...we have it pretty good. We can enjoy our kids, our home, our vacations, our pets.

I know that she has maintained NC, owned her A-crap, and removed you as the responsibility for her A.

So what is holding you back?

I would suggest that IC for you may be a better place to begin than MC. I am not saying your FWW does not have additional work to do also; I am just saying I see IC for you as being more productive than MC just now.

The sex may be as simple as to fake it until you make it and have done enough sex to desensitize your thoughts of the OM being there. Sex has been a sore point for FWW and I, and I think a large part of OM still being in bed with us (me) is that we do sex so infrequent that it is taking longer than it should to desensitize

There are some other posts on SI now about settling versus not in R. I have to realize that my M with FWW will never be what I imagined a real M to be. Is this settling or healthy realism? What about you, are you expecting all hot rods and cold beers (the male version of unicorns and gumdrops)?

Finally, did your W find her whys for the A? Can she, has she explained them to you in a way that makes sense? And if so, has she made progress in addressing these whys? For me, the one thing that has gone well for our R is I understand why FWW had her As and I see changes that, at least for the time being, make another A much less likely.

Though loves evil twin lurks in the shadows slowly infecting what is left the good.

So why havenít you hunted this bastard down and strangled him, or at least chased him off with a good pursuit? Again, this is on you. If the evil twin is also infecting what is left in your FWW, then she has the same responsibility.

Good luck to you, and do not be such a stranger.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4128 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
struggling3
♀ Member
Member # 34671
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can believe that you feel lost. I couldn't imagine healing from this if my H shut me down sexually. It is such a big part of our intimacy as a couple and something we both enjoy. Please try to find a way to get to the bottom of why there is no interest. I hope you can work through this for both of your sakes.


Me - BS 55
H - WS 57/very remorseful and supportive
Kids 28, 25, 22
D-Day 8-5-11
discovered 4 month long EA
R - slow and steady but very optimistic

Posts: 313 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you afraid your kids will learn from both of you what a marriage looks like? Just roommates?


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 11:58 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats,

Sage advice and thanks for the light 2x4 upside the head.. You are right, much of this is on me and there is a lot I should do to fix myself. I have had IC with a few different therapists and found it only marginally helpful.

Before all this A crap I was an infrequent drinker. Now, I am a pro. I rarely drink enough to get drunk but I leap at almost any opportunity to 'take the edge off'. I was more fit, exercised more, etc. I have entered a period of malaise and apathy. The good news is is that I have had enough of this BS and getting my self back together.

The big rub is like what Struggling3 says, "it's hard to heal when shut down sexually." Because sexually intimacy is that important to me.
I have tried 'faking it to make it' (several times), but got tired of faking it because after a months we never made it.

settling versus not in R. I have to realize that my M with FWW will never be what I imagined a real M to be. Is this settling or healthy realism?

This is my quandary. Sometimes I look at her and our beautiful kids and can't imagine a finer life and think that I should be grateful for the opportunity to save our family and build upon it Other times I look at her and feel like a sucker for letting her get away with it. Im supposed to forgive and move on in a comfortable, yet sexless marriage?
I understand that most of my issues come from my hurt ego, I realize this but find it hard to come to terms with.

did your W find her whys for the A? Can she, has she explained them to you in a way that makes sense? And if so, has she made progress in addressing these whys?

Yes, yes and I believe so. I really do feel it is unlikely that she would cheat again. She has lived through hell as a consequence of her A's. But I doubt I will ever fully trust her gain.

I'm not sure what our kids think. I have certainly become moodier, angrier and more easily irritable since Dday. The flip side is our family functions pretty well, for example we laugh a lot together and my W and I generally succeed in putting on the appearance of being happy together. Our youngest seems to think things are fine. Our teenager is more sensitive to any shifts in our behavior but seems pretty secure.
Thanks all!
Alex


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As Yogi Berra used to say " Ninety percent of the game is half mental."

As much as we would like believe that the emotional aspect of physical intimacy isn't as important to men, it is. I have found that without trust and feeling the love, it becomes a rudimentary bodily function. I can handle that myself. It is something that needs to be shared.

I think you both need to work if you want this to improve. Communication is important. Even uncomfortable communication can lead to a greater connection.

You both need to give a little. If you have tried and weren't met halfway that is on your W to resolve in IC. She needs to work at showing you that her concern for you as a person is important to her. Maybe even more important that her own well being or the M. She says the right things, but what actions has she performed to show that she chooses you, is s deeply sorry and would do what it takes to rehabilitate the M. My guess is that she has not done that enough to demonstrate to you that their is anything above "comfortable."

On the other hand one of the harder parts for me was to take a leap of faith every now and then. Communicate what I needed and they acknowledge when that need was met. Gradually both working on meeting each others individual needs that intimacy should improve.

You went to MC, good. However not doing what the MC said was bad. A tool is only useful if you use it. It is a two way street.

Do the two of you spend anytime as a couple ? Date nights, watching movies, sitting outside and watching the stars ?

My take on what you have read here is that your W has not done enough to rebuild trust. Or she tried and gave up since she did not get an immediate benefit. Sometimes the WS has to be consistent with rebuilding trust without any acknowledgment before a BS will respond. If your WS is authentic about restoring this part of the relationship and not making excuses (see IC for her, intimacy issues).

JMHO MC is a waste unless the WS has done some IC work to identify what led them down this path and is working to change it. Without the reasonable assurance that this won't happen again (i.e-safety) you would be foolish to be "all in."

This may sound a little anti-WS, but the person who made the choices that led you here bears a greater burden for rehabilitating the M. My guess is that she has not been willing to play that role.

One really odd thing for me that seemed to motivate my W some was that I stopped pursuing her at all. I was becoming indifferent to her. I played hard to get. Part of it was a test to ensure she would stay despite me giving her plenty of reasons not to. Her insecurities were address in IC and she was able to be vulnerable again.

Sorry man, the best I got today.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2554 | Registered: May 2010
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah I do think many people can have sex but won't talk about sex. Which is weird really because it seems backwards but it happens all the time!

You both need to talk. Maybe even start writing down things you each like to do or want in the bedroom. Communication is so important and marriages can be alive like you said in the companionship part and the family part but be terribly horrible for both parties in the bedroom.

I am in no way condoning her A so when I say this please forgive me....but if she is not having sex it means she may be just not interested and frustrated as well....and it could have nothing to do with her A's. She could be very much a sexual person or have desires herself and yet you 2 don't talk.

It is so important that you reach out to whoever you feel might help you both. Sounds like you love her and want to work this out but getting no sex from the person you love and finding the fun and passion again is so sad.

I hope you can find a way to be together again the way you want.


Posts: 5642 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the feedback.

We can and do talk and I am very clear about my desires, etc. As my W describes it, there has been so much talk and such a big deal made out of our sex life that we have become very self conscious and awkward and stiff. She turns her mojo off while I have no such switch.
Even though we can talk we often miss interpret each others signals and intentions. It doesn't help that we have been stuck in these roles of WW and BS for such a long time.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to write.


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Problem posting

[This message edited by Alex1 at 9:54 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by Alex1 at 9:56 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by Alex1 at 9:56 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by Alex1 at 9:55 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alex1,

FWW has said she would be fine never having sex again. We were at once a month or so, which sadly was a bit of an improvement. This is why last fall we made plans to separate and move to D. Then she lost her job and D was out of the question with upside down mortgage and child in college.

It is not a good thing to live without feeling loved and desired, no matter how ok the rest of the M is.

Sex for us has gotten a bit better the last few months, and so has my connection to my M.


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4128 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, July 10th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats
Glad to hear things are moving in the right direction for you and your wife.

Posts: 201 | Registered: Nov 2009
Topic Posts: 20

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