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User Topic: thought police...i need your help.
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can definitely see both sides of this. given that it's been three years I would say it's probably a positive sign that she brought it up to you. definitely bothersome that the thought occurred, but then again who hasn't had the occasional stupid thought.

having said that, what a dilemma. I know if I were in your shoes I would be bothered also. but has an outsider, wouldn't it have bothered you more had she not communicated this?

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2534 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I expected something else.

Heck yes you should. This isn't a matter of remorseful or unremorseful. It is a matter of compliance vs change IMO. That was a loooong ass way to go down a old rabbit trail of bad coping mechanism. The confession in my mind was a last ditch effort to save face after what she probably realized was poor behavior for days of cold shoulder and conflict avoidance. I am sorry this happened. You shouldn't be thought police, but I would be hard pressed not to take that role in your shoes. The only thing good about this is you now know she has a lot of work still left to do.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 878 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but then again who hasn't had the occasional stupid thought.

almost verbatim what I said to slhim

wouldn't it have bothered you more had she not communicated this?

I don't know.
The confession in my mind was a last ditch effort to save face after what she probably realized was poor behavior for days of cold shoulder and conflict avoidance.

the confession came a good two weeks after the argument.

[This message edited by stilllovingher at 11:04 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did she cheat on me because she was mad at me?

Possibly. IMO affairs can be extremely passive aggressive in some cases.

You said you didn't detach, but I'm curious, how did you react when your wife didn't speak to you for 24 hours and then gave you the cold shoulder for days? Clearly how SLhim deals with her anger needs work. How you deal with conflict together needs to be discussed more. I'm not saying you handled it ncorrectly, just that you have to discuss what works for both of you and why.

A thought...I wonder if her going 'there' in her mind, while definitely self-destructive, was rooted in attention seeking? Such as, the cold shoulder is not getting the attention/outcome I want so in her mind she knows what surely would. And I don't mean the attention from some random guy, but attention from you. Kinda like a kid ramping up a tantrum till they get a rise out of someone. Even perceived negative attention is better than no attention.

Whatever it was in her mind she's going to have to figure it out. I think it is good that she told you what she was thinking though.

Oh, and your shut-down? That's a PTSD reaction, and you know it.

Absolutely.


Growing forward

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Sep 2011
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

how did you react when your wife didn't speak to you for 24 hours and then gave you the cold shoulder for days?

I just go about my day like usual.
when med instability is a factor, I usually try to let her just cool off on her own. But that doesn't mean that I worry about it all day, I just do my thing.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crazz checks out like that on me, and it scares the crap out of me.

I've never gotten a confession like what slhim came to you with. Honestly, I would be almost relieved if he talked to me at all about "where he goes" when he mentally checks out - but it's still a mystery. And a huge trigger.

5454 took the words out of my mouth for a response:

I can definitely see both sides of this. given that it's been three years I would say it's probably a positive sign that she brought it up to you. definitely bothersome that the thought occurred, but then again who hasn't had the occasional stupid thought.

having said that, what a dilemma.

It is super scary that a FWS would still have those type of coping mechanisms in existence... but I think that the ultimate key to survival here is communication. A 24 hour cooldown period seems excessive - but only you two know what you need to weather tough times.

I don't want to make excuses or write anything off, but my conclusion based on everything you said is that the fact that she's sharing these thoughts with you, in a remorseful rather than taunting manner, is golden to build off of. It just doesn't feel that way when the confession is a one way ticket to triggertown.

I'm sorry for the gutpunch... I'd feel that way too. I hope you two can find a compassionate way to communicate through this. Hugs to you both.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16267 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 11:58 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know we all have stupid thoughts, its the fact that this was her initial RESPONSE to being pissed at me as opposed to just some fleeting thought out of nowhere.

she hates it, it scared her, that IS progress. I guess I just find it hard to understand.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 12:48 AM, July 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, you're going to piss her off several times in the future. It comes with the job. And a couple of times it will be really bad.

What is she going to do? Can she guarantee it would actually never happen?


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1183 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 2:19 AM, July 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think in stressful situations, pretty much everyone's snap initial response is to go to their default setting (it sounds like you did too, with the checking out). I would put money on it that she reverted to a coping strategy learned in childhood (not the flirting with men in a bar bit, but the withdrawing and looking for attention), and, honestly, people don't just unlearn those very ingrained coping mechanisms.

So I don't think there is anything particularly surprising or upsetting about that. IMO, real healing and growth is the ability to 1. recognize that you have gone to your default setting, 2. stop yourself from acting on it, 3. talk about it.

So, while I understand this was upsetting for you to hear--I think any BS would be upset by it--I don't think she did badly here. That said, it sounds like you guys really both need to keep talking--about this, about the cold shouldering and about your response.

Are you in IC?

[This message edited by brooke4 at 2:20 AM, July 4th (Thursday)]


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1490 | Registered: Feb 2007
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 7:04 AM, July 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

its the fact that this was her initial RESPONSE to being pissed at me as opposed to just some fleeting thought out of nowhere.

What Brooke said.

From where I sit, far removed....I'm not sure having this as a fleeting thought would be better. The fact that it was tied into conflict and anger gives a good solid starting point to analyze why it happened and work on that. A fleeting thought attached to nothing wouldn't have that, and personally I'd be left with WTF?

Looking at why she shuts down during conflict and then spirals off -- such as being triggered involuntarily as a reaction to how you respond to her or purposeful used to achieve a desired outcome. There may be a lot of emotions under her anger that by shutting down, she's doesn't have to face at that moment to avoid being overwhelmed, or it's a subtle way to seek attention and/or manipulate the situation. All go in different directions but at least give a place to start.

The med instability situation must complicate things. Hugs to you both. Keep talking.


Growing forward

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Sep 2011
nomistakeaboutit
♂ Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, July 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wincing-at-light pretty much nails it in his post. I'd take his analogy one step further. He said this..

Wonder how it would go in my house if I told my wife that when she makes me angry, I fantasize about stabbing her in the face with a shovel while she's asleep. I mean, I'd tell her it was an irrational thought and I'd never do it, of course...so then I'd just get all the honesty kudos and treat it like another brick on the trust- building highway.

The one step further is this, how would his wife feel if he actually HAD done this before? How nervous would she be if this was his "default setting", when he got really mad at her about something?

Your W's admission is very disturbing. Her honesty is good, but didn't seem to be followed by much else, such as, "I understand now,why I have these impulses, I know now how wrong and unhealthy they are, I'm so much better now because I disabuse myself of these unhealthy thoughts Immediately, instead of entertaining them for hours, etc."

Best to you and your wife. I hope she can get to a healthier place.

NMAI


Me: BH 56.........Her: WW 43
DD: 6..........DS: 4
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 910 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, July 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't see this as 'yay; she felt comfortable enough to tell you about her thoughts.' I see it as 'Fuck; she's still having these thoughts.'

IMO, it could be either or both of the above responses, with many more parsings possible, too.

I hope that she means or is moving to mean, 'Holy shit! I'm still falling into this trap. I really want to change this!'

My concern is her response to the thought, not the thought itself.

For example, this time she got mad, thought of getting strokes from men in a bar, and stopped talking to you.

A much better response would be for her to recognize she's mad and use that as a signal either to give up her anger or to talk to you about resolving the sitch immediately.

Another probably great response would be to use the thought of getting strokes from other men as the signal to approach you rather than to withdraw.

I'm not sure we can control our thoughts. That doesn't bother me at all, because I believe we can control what we do with our thoughts.


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9725 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
still-living
♂ Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, July 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something to consider:

If this was my wife, I would treat the statements as warning shots to continue discussing and resolving whatever conflict we were having. I would not be focusing on the cannon ball necessarily, or any prior cannon balls, but rather, I would be focusing on the conflict at hand, the one she tied directly to her statements.

How I would conclude to this, again, if this were my wife:

First, what was the motive for the statements? We all have fantasies. As long as we do not obsess with our fantasies and brainwash ourselves to acting on them then we will be ok, right? We simply reflect on our experiences, think about how we’ve learned from them, and then choose to not repeat our mistakes. She reflected on one of her experiences. It’s in her pot. It was an error, -a fantasy. Her willing to discuss it, I think, is a sign of being on the right path to not repeat it. If fact, I’m not sure why she would even bring it up. She doesn’t need my help understanding it’s wrong. I don’t think she was saying “hey, lets not argue because it makes me think bad thoughts.” I could only conclude that her statement was a shot, a radical shot to engage me to addressing a conflict.

I have learned to think this way to address my wife. Sometimes my wife doesn’t just say it. She doesn’t even realize she's not saying it. If fact, for years I didn't realize this and many conflicts went unresolved. This the new way for me to understand my wife. It is our happy medium. Sometimes when I identify it, I also bring up the way she initiated discussing the conflict, too soft, often. For others topics, I live with it. For example, when my wife asks me, “Did the mail come yet?”, I know she’s asking me to fetch the mail. I no longer just stand there and say “Yes” (it came.) Or sometimes when I'm feeling frisky, I do

[This message edited by still-living at 8:12 AM, July 4th (Thursday)]


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14

My dog farted, startled himself, wondered where the noise came from. I wish my life was as simple.


Posts: 682 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, July 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

going back a bit:
the 24 hour silence was not a cooling off period, that's just how long it was before she started talking to me again. A cooling off period would normally be about 30 minutes. But this time, since I felt that she was slightly off her rocker, I left her alone, I tried to diffuse things at first, but she shut me down. So I decided not to play along.

Can she guarantee it would actually never happen?

no, not anymore. But I guess that's true of anyone.

Crazz, Dixie, Brooke:
I appreciate your insights. it helps.
The med aspect played a huge role here and we both know it. thing is...while that may mitigate things as far as why this all happened the way it did...it doesn't make me feel any safer.

Another probably great response would be to use the thought of getting strokes from other men as the signal to approach you rather than to withdraw.

yes, that would've been nice.

NMAI:
I don't think she sat on that fantasy for hours, more like minutes, but I could be wrong. Either way though, the fact that, her being pissed at me leads to fantasizing about another betrayal...that sucks!!! She did recognize it, in short order, as stupid...that's great.

And as for my robot mode, I'm not sure I'd want to give that up even if I knew how. Its kinda kept me sane at times where I otherwise would've lost my marbles. Growing up in the house I did, it was either detach, or be destroyed. I know its a protection thing.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, July 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

still-living:
I understand what you're saying. That is how things used to be with us. but, it can't be like that now, that puts me in the role of mind reader, and that leads to her not speaking up when she really should. which is not a good time for us.

I gotta go for a bit, its moto-o-clock and the weather is awesome!
kickstands up @7:00.

thanks everyone.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2401 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
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