I'M ON THE FENCE
He eventually gave passwords to his accounts. I can log in and check at any time. I do see evidence of a conversation with one friend that he refused to give up - she was a "Friend with benefits" before we met who lives in another state. She's inappropriate but never crossed a line while we've been together.
So what do you suggest I do differently? I think I'm doing all that I can. I appreciate advice and input - the only area I see improvement on is counseling - we stopped because it wasn't helping and the bills were piling up. We found it very difficult to find a counselor that was "real" - most were too sympathetic to my situation to give us helpful tasks.
[This message edited by featherweight at 7:41 AM, June 27th (Thursday)]
I do believe that he was "just at the bar" and nothing worse. It's bad enough that he lied about going to bed, but I'm pretty sure he'd say that he didn't want to tell me because he wasn't tired, wanted to hear some music for another hour or two but didn't want me to get upset. Lying is lying, but I need to address the boundaries again without giving him reason to be more careful with covering his tracks.
[This message edited by featherweight at 7:48 AM, June 27th (Thursday)]
So what do you suggest I do differently? I think I'm doing all that I can.
I ask my self this a lot...same situation...have all PW I know about...info for credit card accts, airline info, etc...but nothing for the one's he may have chosen not to tell me about. Would he lie to me like that...well, as of 4 years ago, my answer is yes...he IS capable.
His phone, computer, etc is company acct also...I check everything from travel recipts, tracking on his phone, you name it, I have checked it...if he is ever in contact with her, he will slip up...I will know...but
we have to keep in mind, how long can we do this...is this the thing that keeps a BS in limbo...I am always in a state of preparedness...waiting for the other shoe to drop...waiting for the final scene...the ending.
my stomach is already in knots over a buisiness trip he is taking in a few months...one that will extend over a weekend...
Counseling for me was my lifeline early on...my IC saved me (but put a hugh dent in bank acct), but our one MC session was a joke...he was still seeing her and it was just too early. Now we REALLY can't afford it and he seriously is not someone who would value and be open to professional help, so I don't think that would help in my case, but for others, it has really helped.
I think that the difference between a WS that is willing to give total transparency and one who is offended by being asked to give it freely is related to whether the WS has true remorse. My WH has done much to rebuild our marriage, but stopped short of showing remorse, is offended by my lack of trust in him and views the A and off and on relationship with the OW as a "mistake" and beyond his control. His motivation in R has and will always be to make himself feel less guilty and not loose his family...not to help me heal.
The WSs I see described here as remorseful, truely take responsibility and have had a "wake up moment" that spurs them in the direction of doing whatever selfless act it takes to not lose their BS...it seems to be an almost panic stuck moment...one that I am waiting to happen with my WH.
I think you're right, and I've been jealous of others who post that their WH is willing to move mountains, give all, to repair the hurt. However I think there is a downside to that as well. I have a close friend whose husband said & did everything right, went to counseling, read books, self helped himself every way possible... didn't make their recovery any more solid. Ultimately it comes down to trust and faith, and the person who makes the decision to cheat (or not) when the opportunity arises.
I try to trust and treat every day as a new day... it's only when something upsets me that I'm sent back to the possibility of this not working out. Traveling apart is a tough one... especially when it's part of the past hurt.
but he's VERY good
Is he, or do you just want to believe VERY much?
Remorse isn't flaunted but it sure isn't hidden. You'd see him digging, being proactive with your pain, being open and honest and there would be NO lies.
Unless he went down the block to take a piss you know he was not where he said he was. He refused to give up a friend of the opposite sex.
He's telling you what he will and won't do which translates to I'm doing nothing to fix this. I'll comply grudgingly in some areas but I'll decide those and how much.
Ever seen a child do something they don't want to do? I've seen hair grow faster.
Some post volumes about what their WS is or is not doing. Not what they're doing to heal.
He's had enough focus on him. Your turn now. Detach. That should be BS 101. Detach and heal. I don't know how it can be any other way. Otherwise it's like asking the soldier that just had his leg blown off to lead the charge. How they hell can they do that if they're bleeding out?
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
You're right, he acts like a child, begrudgingly going along with my request to not form friendships with women at work. He exaggerated the situation "I can't talk about the weekend with a coworker that I'm in a meeting with because she has breasts?!?"
Truth is, I don't want to forever play the part of hurt BS any more than he wants to be punished for being the WH. We both want to move on and get back to reality, trust each other and have some sense of normalcy.
So I'm willing to stand up for the things that really make me uncomfortable, as long as it's something I can admit that I know about. There has been rug sweeping on my part - a couple of random things that I addressed swiftly and then left alone.
Do I need a 2x4?
[This message edited by featherweight at 10:50 AM, June 27th (Thursday)]
Do I need a 2x4?
In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
Do I need a 2x4?
No, you need a hug. I don't believe you've done your healing, though.
The paragraph that starts with "You're right"... and ends with "because she has breasts" is all you need to know.
You're not acting like a hurt BS. You are doubting his very doubtful behavior. I believe that's called smart. Now, how you process that reality is where the healing may need a bit more time and work.
Look, I knew I didn't have what it took to reconcile. The brave WS's here? Yeah, that wasn't me. The second my ex expressed pain to me about my choices I would have blown his shit up, and I'm not being at all figurative.
I would have been the WS's you read about here that are nightmares. Completely unmoved, uncaring, not present.
I'm like the thief that helps homeowners guard against them. I do know what remorse feels like. I had it for myself. I dug, uncovered, owned, disowned, and hurt. I left no stone unturned and am still working through my choices. I don't have anyone else to answer to and don't have to "sell" anyone. Without him and the marriage I focus on this shit and work through it.
If that isn't present somewhere in him he's not doing what it takes to make himself a safe person...for anyone.
You will need to decide if you're willing to be ok with that. I hope not. No one deserves someone that doesn't care enough about the damage they caused to ensure they don't ever do it again.
"No one deserves someone that doesn't care enough about the damage they caused to ensure they don't ever do it again."
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
He has said things that are remorseful - "I hate what I did to us... I would never do anything to cause you to hurt like that again... I've learned my lesson... I'm so sorry for the mistakes I've made"
I know that is not the same as digging to learn the "why". I know he still tells himself it was the "perfect storm" of us going through tough times (infertility treatments) and a close friend looking for more. I know that is not the real reason it happened, nor does the perfect storm need to brew again for a repeat.
He's not one to listen to a counselor and come away with much.. he hears it all with a psychobabble filter. If I could find the counselor he respects (for whatever reason) I think he would learn a lot about himself. I don't think he wants to look & see what made him do something so hurtful. He's the peter pan type - happy, optimistic, glass half full, have fun because life is short. I used to love those things about him... I just don't want it to include relationships with other women.
In daily life, he's a great father, a respected businessman, a helpful partner, a kind husband. But we live like roomates and that scares me. I think I know him better than anyone, but that's because he doesn't let many people in. He is there for others but doesn't share much of himself. Women love that... a supportive ear, a shoulder to cry on... he answers whenever someone asks him for something. He's the last one to leave the party, the first one to lend a hand. All good traits for the surface..
I know I want more from him long term. If I could find a good counselor I'd tell him we're going back to try it again. I know we don't communicate well - I'm too passionate and can't remove my feelings from the fight. Probably from stuffing it down for so long. I don't want to fight with him in front of our daughter.
I just don't want it to include relationships with other women.
Dysfunction is not situational.
When you're ready, featherweight, you can look through your responses and see your answers.
"If I could find the counselor he respects".
Take care of yourself. You're precious. Don't forget that.
Ultimately it comes down to trust and faith, and the person who makes the decision to cheat (or not) when the opportunity arises.
that is the problem...the only way I seem to be able to gain any inkling of trust is to watch and wait...everytime I suspect and find nothing, I can trust a little more...if I find a breach, I go back a few spaces...
the other issue that many deal with...or at least I do..is even if he never has contact with her again, I will still not know if it is because he truely chose ME, didn't want to lose his life and family, or if she rejected him...I just don't know...never will know, so
Detach. That should be BS 101. Detach and heal.
This is what we should be trying to do...this is what I am doing...little by little ...day by day...but if detaching means healing, where will we be in the years to come? As one detaches, it is like moving away from a scene that you are in...you begin to see things more objectively Our past...my marriage and his feelings toward me and our life together is all different now. He doesn't see this b/c he has always known what I just found out 4 years ago. He does see change in me though and I am not sure how he feels about it...yes, counseling for the WS is definately needed too.
I have a lot of free time the last few weeks...need to get busy again so don't have too much time to think...or need to focus on something more ME related...not US related.