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Divorce/Separation     Print Topic    
User Topic: Abbondad Part 3...
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There was all sorts of stuff that seemed in direct contradiction to what we discussed in mediation, no mention of other subjects, and stuff that was outright untrue. For example, it said we both forego spousal support.

Even as a first draft, that's already showing the mediators bias. No spousal support? I read that as including the insurance as well. Why is she supporting your STBXWW's goals? How could she know what they are?

I'm afraid your in a fight that you are not seeing the totality of!

I know you really desire to keep this amicable. It appears, she doesn't.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3033 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AD, if you haven't already, soon you will notice that her shifts between super nice and crazy psycho will be fewer and farther between. She is still in the A and her manipulations of you no longer work to the extent she wants. This means the back and forth behavior will stop and she will get stuck on hatred and blame shifting. The nice cycle gets turned off in favor of I will rip his soul out because he is the cause of all my problems. Of course you aren't really the cause of all her problems but in HER MIND it is true. The legal stuff will get more complicated as she starts to get a clearer picture in her head of how things are supposed to be to HER. You can't mediate with a person like that. Just be careful and IMO you should start firing "head shots" now in the form of filing for sole use of the house, filing for custody of the children or at least pushing for more than 50/50, and refusing to speak with her at all unless the L is involved. You can drop the kids off without speaking to her and she can do the same.

By asking for way more than you really want, it gives you the upper hand in negotiation as you back off stuff you didn't really care about to get what you really want. She essentially just did that to you with this first crappy draft of a MSA. Don't cave on ANYTHING that you really need or want. I am not saying go the mutaully assured destruction route, I am saying be smart about the process and let your L guide you.

I'm afraid your in a fight that you are not seeing the totality of!

A Fight is actually a good way of thinking of this. Looking back I had the following mindset without even realizing it. I just knew I had to get what I needed in the agreement now and the rest would work itself out later. Think of this as a championship fight between 2 people that know each other. They may be cordial outside of the ring even best friends but once they get in the ring and the bell sounds they are literally trying to "knock each other the fuck out". You guys have been in the ring for a few rounds already, you have been pulling punches because you possibly still see her as a friend while she has been swinging for the fences for some time. At the end of the fight all that matters is who is still standing and you want it to be you and your kids. After you figuratively "knock her ass out" and are D or have a legal document spelling out all the terms as you wait for D, you can always return to being "friends" or whatever relationship you do or don't want to build with her after all the business is taken care of. Until the fight/D is officially over you keep swinging.

Speaking from experience the fight part sucks but after it's over things start to get better once you no longer have to deal with the toxicity anymore.

As always this was just my 2 cents, you walk your own path, do what you can when you can, and I wish you the best.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:06 AM, July 18th (Thursday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1914 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A Fight is actually a good way of thinking of this.

Yes, a Divorce is a fight over finances and children--both emotional subjects.

And when our brains enter Fight or Flight mode, we are no longer thinking rationally.

Hence the need for an impartial advocate. If the mediator isn't impartial, talk to your lawyer.

Then, your lawyer can be the bad guy in all this, Abbondad.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello, My Prescient Friends!

My STBXWW just texted me that she took it upon herself to cancel our next mediation.

Why? Because I "did not respond directly to her questions in her email."

Translation: I did not promise I would bend over and agree to waive CS.

I played it dumb, replying that we can talk about it in mediation, where we will be given appropriate information to reach decisions.

Her response: we need to make our own decisions before mediation, since "they just repeat what the law says and it doesn't make sense in our situation."

Don't worry, I have left a message with my attorney that I want to file immediately.

Y'know, I tried to nice her out of the affair, I tried to nice her in mediation, and god knows I niced her in the marriage.

I'm not at all surprised (and I've said so here), but it still makes me so sad. But of course it does boost my resolve.

Again, I just hope the kids can be kept out of this, it can be settled out of court, it won't drag on, and I won't be demolished financially.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1649 | Registered: Dec 2012
DeadMumWalking
♀ Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((AD))))

Thank goodness that....

I have left a message with my attorney that I want to file immediately.

This is the BEST way to protect YOUR CHILDREN (also yourself, but you don't seem to value you that much).

I really hope that your L is a SHARK and will get you the BEST. DEAL. POSSIBLE. That means maxing out on CS (especially) and hopefully SS as well.

Don't expect your WW to treat you (and your CHILDREN) better in the D than she did in the M.

Please please PLEASE go NC with her. Let your L do the talking. They are the only one that has your back right now.

((((AD))))


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 25 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 30
Dday: Dec 2008
Limbo-ish, again (after multiple S) -- weighing my options

Posts: 2632 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow she is a freaking trip.
I am glad that you contacted your attorney. Stick to it. You know what whatever it costs, it's worth getting it done, done right, and in a manner that will be efficient, and won't end up with you being completely screwed over.

It's only money. You know how to make more.

I commend you for not loosing your shit with her, because I myself would have seen red, and given her holy hell for taking it upon herself to cancel. She just wants to continue to drag this shit out, and make your life miserable. NO MORE!!!!
AD you deserve more, and you can demand it.

I am proud of you. Keep up the strong work.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8744 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isn't this the 2nd time that she just unilaterally cancelled mediation?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8112 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isn't this the 2nd time that she just unilaterally cancelled mediation?

You have a good memory. (Boy, my story's a cliffhanger, huh?)

The first time she convinced me to cancel it because she "Wasn't emotionally prepared." Stupid me, I thought that she would pull her head out of her ass. Nope. Just a stall tactic.

I just spoke to her. (Yeah, I know.). But I did good: let her go off on the usual stuff about how I am being "unreasonable" and "inflexible" for daring to "go by the letter of the law" for daring to want CS and possibly spousal support. (Actually I'm likely not entitled to much given the duration of our marriage.)

And of course all this was framed as ME not looking out for the best interests of the children. Un. Believable. If she wants to go there, I am holding all the cards, as you guys well know.

I told her I am no longer interested in mediation. (But I did not say anything about filing. She'll figure it out, and THEN all hell will break loose.)

I tried to shut it down, but she resisted. Finally I told her I will no longer discuss this and that I was hanging up. And I did. First time I ever did that. A bit scary, but very empowering.

I'm sure her NPD self is livid.

My attorney appt. is next week.

Wish me strength as I head into the eye of the storm.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1649 | Registered: Dec 2012
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If she wants to go there, I am holding all the cards,

Magical thinking...


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Magical thinking...

Uh-oh. I'm trying to be confident here!

;-)

What do you mean?


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1649 | Registered: Dec 2012
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Abbondad, you should feel confident.

Time for you to take an honest appraisal of your enemy's strengths and weaknesses -- and an honest appraisal of your own strengths and weaknesses.

If you believe either of you have all the power, you are mistaken.

The courts don't give a rat's ass who your STXWW is fucking. (the laws in a few state's are behind the curve, but I digress).

Divorce is about splitting marital assets and, regrettably, splitting parenting responsibilities.

My attorney appt. is next week.

Great! She'll be your General and lead you into battle.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see what you mean. I am not deluded; I'm just trying to keep my newfound feeling of empowerment going...

The courts don't give a rat's ass who your STXWW is fucking. (the laws in a few state's are behind the curve, but I digress).

I live in a no-fault state and have no intention of bringing up adultery. I just want to get this thing settled with a professional by my side so I can get on into my new life.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1649 | Registered: Dec 2012
LifeIsBroken
♀ Member
Member # 27071
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why would you not bring up the A ? Seems to me that would be a large part of your discussion: 'she became irrational and became a more disinterested parent when the A began. I am divorcing to protect myself and my children from her poor choices. I am asking for more than joint custody because I'm concerned as to the type of man/men she will introduce to their lives.... all based what we've witnessed since */*/* when she began seeing another man. Our children and I were blindsided by her poor choices and I cannot take more chances with that.'


BW: 59
XH: 60
Married 34 yrs, LIBerated: 2/17/11
MOW: 50 (she said she wanted a sugar daddy; xh said, "I'M HIM!")
Actions ALWAYS have consequences. Too bad cheaters don't consider the consequences BEFORE they create so much damage.

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Missouri & Massachusetts
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why would you not bring up the A ? Seems to me that would be a large part of your discussion: 'she became irrational and became a more disinterested parent when the A began. I am divorcing to protect myself and my children from her poor choices. I am asking for more than joint custody because I'm concerned as to the type of man/men she will introduce to their lives.... all based what we've witnessed since */*/* when she began seeing another man. Our children and I were blindsided by her poor choices and I cannot take more chances with that.'

Thanks LIB,

I do not want the children involved AT ALL in any child custody dispute. I'm concerned that if I bring up adultery then she will harp on the fact that we agreed to "sort of" open up our marriage, etc. Thus it could get messy, opening up a new can of worms and, worst case scenario, make this go to trial. And worse it could involve the kids, since my son got swept into it via his seeing that naked picture.

I want what I and my children are entitled to, and I want it over as quickly as possible, and I don't want the focus to extend anywhere beyond this. KNow what I mean?

The whole adultery element has traumatized me as it is. I want to keep it out of the divorce. Plus as I understand it (and my attorney said this) a judge likely won't give a damn about adultery.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1649 | Registered: Dec 2012
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's not the adultery per se, but the way she utilized her time. Was she using time, while separated to be with OM rather than the children.

The "open" marriage. It was only in effect while you both agreed to it.

And worse it could involve the kids, since my son got swept into it via his seeing that naked picture.

??? Of course that will be a huge factor. Brother, YOU didn't involve him. She did. Your goal in D should be to maximize this. What huge damage was done to your son by that exposure? Then, she chose to exacerbate that damage by introduce him to the OM. Wow, how much lower can she sink. The judge would probably agree.

Don't back down brother. Stiff upper lip, ramrod spine. Soldier on!

You're doing good!

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3033 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm concerned that if I bring up adultery then she will harp on the fact that we agreed to "sort of" open up our marriage, etc.
Just want to point out that regardless of your past romantic life things didn't get "weird" for the kids until your STBXWW moved out and exposed them to the weirdness. Even if you had an open M prior to the A your kids weren't exposed to the craziness. I am not pushing one way or the other. I just want to make sure you understand that from what you have shared of your story nothing you or STBXWW did in your sex life prior to the A "seems" to have had a negative affect on the kids. Sounds like you shielded them from adult issues as most people try to do. Shit didn't get crazy until the A and she moved out and exposed kids to OM, nude texts, etc. So make sure you are NOT blaming yourself for her actions. M stuff and A stuff are separate issues. Don't own her fuck ups.


Plus as I understand it (and my attorney said this) a judge likely won't give a damn about adultery.
If your L knows the entire story and you are comfortable with his guidance then let him guide you.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:53 AM, July 19th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1914 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
Abbondad
♂ Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am also very concerned that my wife will make shit up. I put nothing past her. At the height of the craziness she actually basically insinuated that the kids were unsafe with ME. I just don't want to go there and end up at a trial if at all possible.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1649 | Registered: Dec 2012
devistatedmom
♀ Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bringing up her affair and the fact that your son saw pictures is not bringing your kids into it. The judge isn't going to say bring the kids into court. It's letting her know that her actions that involve the kids is not acceptable, and that you are doing xyz to protect them.

I filed the divorce. Yes, the divorce papers when to the courts; they have to to be legal and have the divorce decree done. I never went to court. We never went before a judge. Filing through a lawyer, regardless of what type of D you are doing does not mean a long drawn out court battle.

You tell your L what you want in the D. The L draws up the papers. They are served to the other person. They can either sign off on them, or come back with changes of their own. Much like when you are negotiating to buy a house.

You know which items in the D papers are the ones you are willing to push on. For me, I negotiated with him that instead of us selling the house and all debts being paid off, which would have left me with nothing to buy a house for the kids and I, that I bought him out, but instead of giving him cash, I took on a larger part of our debts. I also fought for the custody I wanted. The rest? Start at the middle, and I used them as bargaining chips to make sure the important parts went the way I wanted them to.

His A didn't make a difference in our divorce. What others are saying that even though the courts "don't care" that they had an A, you can still use her behavior as ways to move things along.

"You didn't show up 8 times int he past month to pick up the kids at appointed times. I will not agree to 50/50, I want more because your actions do not show someone that has the kids best interest at heart."

You use the info to help you negotiate. That's all the others are saying. Not to drag your kids into court.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5543 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am also very concerned that my wife will make shit up. I put nothing past her. At the height of the craziness she actually basically insinuated that the kids were unsafe with ME.

Have you been documenting? She can allege all she wants. What can she prove?

At one point I faced a false DV charge. Didn't happen. Had documentation. OCD and/or Tourette's are not reasons for the children to not be safe either.

Follow your lawyers advice after you inform him/her of your desires. Religiously.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3033 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, July 19th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dude just File Mediation is going to end up with you getting hosed. I would not be one bit surprised for her to stay on the unemployment wagon either until this is dealt with, that way you would have to give her CS, and Alimony.
You need to tap into your inner pitbull, and push for what is right.

((((and GRRRR))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8744 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Topic Posts: 449
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