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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Red flag vs. Pinkish flag

I think this is exactly it. She was/is great at hiding just how messed up she really is. I think we were talking awhile back about how we all thought that our wife's had transcended their FOO issues. Now we know it was just a facade. My ww's mother has wasted everything she gained from all her divorces and now works as a school janitor (I shit you not a janitor). My wife on the other hand got her masters, is successful in her field, and had a plan for life. I thought she was pink, but in reality was still a red.

Now add in my own narcissistic view of familial superiority. Just by being around me and my family she'll learn what a healthy relationship looks like. Like its possible that she would forget the bullshit lessons she learned her whole life from bullshit role models. I thought because I wasn't fucked up, simply by osmosis she would be capable of a healthy relationship. That's exactly what I assumed would happen, how wrong I was. The KISA in me thinks I should have done better, that's bullshit though. Probably wouldn't have made a difference one way or another....she was a red.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Long Gone
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Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow....great question "Why did I pick her"

We own self worth was the dick up in the decision. fWW is badass hot....sex was off the charts.....she treated me like a king....she was in college for RN...etc.

In my damaged mind...I thought she was the best I could get and couldn't imagine landing another like her....I ignored a few red flags....and just plowed on through.....later on I find that a few things that were hidden....like her financial issues, her sexual past, an unspoken sexual assault and possible 2nd......long story..

I married a broken person...who was doing whatever she could to land someone she thought would protect and carry her for life....when I made her walk on her own 2 feet....she sank.

its a struggle to this very day in regards to getting the past out of my head...but she is 3 years into her self improvement...totally different person...still self loathes...but...200% better...

as for me....at some point I broke free from the fog of self pity and the pain of the A....and woke up as damaged as she was initially....I am in the stages of fixing my own issues.....

yada yada


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 753 | Registered: Jun 2011
Long Gone
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Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh....the reason I thought she was the best I could get was based on the position I was holding in life after a devastating divorce that left me starting over with bascially nothing....our physical attraction is what drove us....our views of ourselves is what destroyed us.


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 753 | Registered: Jun 2011
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal, if you could bottle up some of that NC please send it my way.

I would Later, but I have just enough to keep me sane...most of the time.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have begun to suspect that decent folks raised in a stable home with ample love and healthy coping mechanisms aren't outfitted to recognize red flags. We have this odd belief that love and commitment can overcome the sort of pinkish flags that we might register.

In essence, you have to be punched in the mouth to recognize what some asshole cocking his fist back actually means. You learn to recognize red flags through trauma.

So, if you're truly blindsided and gobsmacked by betrayal, blame your parents (it's trendy) for not teaching you that the world is full of leeches waiting to suck you dry -- and the bleeding invariably starts at home.

Dysfunction has become so normative, it's the healthy upbringing that's become dysfunctional in a social model populated by six degrees of manipulation and inner-child masturbation.

While I can agree this could be true in a lot of cases, I think that swings to the other extreme as well.

I was that outcast kid, you know the kind that folks say "Just hit the bully back" but never actually dealt with the real life situation where even after you manage to take him down after he brings back two buddies, the entire crowd turns on you. That kind of shit that they try to blame school shootings on right now. I mean I wasn't in the worst circumstances ever but I came out into the high school years with serious trust issues and the idea that the only guarantee of truth I had was the truth I gave to the world.

I can definitely agree that you learn to recognize red flags by experience, but even that isn't a guarantee when you don't keep your cynicism honed and on target on everything. I admit I never did and still don't know what a healthy relationship really is so I modeled it as best I could from characters both real and fictional I admired. Maybe I read too many fucking tragedies or something I dunno. Problem with that though is placing trust in someone when you don't trust anyone else, gives them power you don't know how to deal with. So those red flags can rain down all over but you look at that shit and think : "Okay when I'm the common denominator here, there has to be something wrong with me." Also that rush of feeling like you have someone at your back, who will go to the mat for you, like I assume some parents do somewhere in the world. That shit is hard to let go too. Then it's the only real familiar thing you have in that category and it gets scary to question it because then you're back to looking at the world for what it is: full of assholes and out to kill you fucking dead.

TBH I think it's easier to look at that after becoming a dad because even though I don't know what a good father looks like I can see the world like that and have little people to protect from it until they can punch it in the cock.

So I don't trust anyone and accept the knowledge that if I fell down a hole I would probably die cold and alone and I'm okay with that. I know the world don't owe me shit, and I can give that to my kids. You know, be at their back. They will probably grow up and get fucked by not understanding those red flags, but hopefully I won't have fallen into a hole before then so they can come talk to me about it.

Sorry, didn't mean to be a downer or sommat, actually having a nice day despite sweating my dick off and spending the morning changing tires and shit. I think I spent too much time in Metro, that goddamn game skullfucks your brain with melancholy.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have taken Longgone's post and have edited it to my sitch:

We own self worth was the dick up in the decision. fWW is badass hot...she was in [residency to become a surgeon]...etc.

In my damaged mind...I thought she was the best I could get and couldn't imagine landing another like her...[YEP, a good friend of mine told me last year that when I landed my WW I acted like I won a prize, not that I had a soul mate]...I ignored a few red flags...[her family!!!]--.and just plowed on through.....[after all marriage and kids is tough, right/]

I married a broken person...who was doing whatever she could to land someone she thought would protect [her and be a safe choice]...

and...

yada yada

Reminds me of the song by the Smiths, "Stop Me If you Think You've Heard This One Before."

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:06 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

melancholy

Doesn't matter what I'm doing, that's standard operating procedure for me now days.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
WhiskeyRiver
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Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey dudes, new guy here...first post. I'm pretty impressed with the volume and quality of submissions to this thread, and it seems like the right place for me.

I guess I'll explain my situation to start (and please forgive my ignorance of many of the abbreviations used on the site). I'm 41, WW is 38. No kids (but two awesome dogs that I will do anything to keep). Married for almost 6 years, but together for over 15. We own our house, which sometimes feels like the only thing holding me in this at times.

Currently, I'm on my own. My W left two days ago on a bus to her Mom's house, and she's about to enter her third detox facility in 9 months...hence the bus. She lost her job last week...the second she's been fired from in just over a year, both because of alcohol abuse.

The A started, near as I can tell, about 6 months ago. I found out about a month ago, when she left her fb account open on our shared laptop. This led to my discovery of literally hundreds of texts and emails. I think you've all seen this shit, so I won't bother explaining how fucked up and gross the texts are.

I now realize that she's not the person that I married, as she's always stated that infidelity and lying are major personal faults that she would not tolerate from anyone else.

The A is ongoing, as well. She has not expressed any desire to break it off. She also claims that she "didn't know how much it would hurt me." Yeah, our M was kind of dysfunctional for a variety of reasons, but that she didn't think I'd give a fuck is just plain crazy.

The OM is at least 15 years older than her, far more financially secure than myself, and--get this--dated her older sister when they were in HS.

As bad as things may have been between us (and they were bad at times), I never strayed and was reliable, honest, and loyal. Could I have been a better H? Of course. But I never once told her a lie.

I guess this is just venting, and I'm so far from thinking clearly at this point that I don't really even know what questions to ask anyone. I'm going to see an IC next week...hoping that may help me with some clarity on how to proceed. I'm so torn between simply filing for D and waiting to see if she can sober up and see the devastation that she's caused to everyone in her life. I know the person that she used to be, and I just want that person back so we can work on our issues, but I realize this may be a personal delusional fantasy at this point.

Anyway, thanks for listening guys.

[This message edited by WhiskeyRiver at 12:00 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In essence, you have to be punched in the mouth to recognize what some asshole cocking his fist back actually means. You learn to recognize red flags through trauma.

This ^^^, as well as SG's post as well.

My dad always taught my brothers and I to be perfect little gentlemen...open doors, pay for date meals, and in general, just to be pretty deferential to women. Well, in my experience being that way is perfectly fine, even admirable...in the context of an established relationship. But as a teenager, in those early dating years, that strategy gets you no where....you're polite, well-mannered, etc., and basically get treated like a fucking doormat while the young ladies give their affections to the gangbangers, the sarcastic assholes, and the like....the whole 'bad boy' type, you know?

Now, as an adult I know that when you act like an asshole, you end up with a girl who is attracted to assholes, and those girls almost universally suck. But try telling that to a lonely 13-17 year old, you know? My dad wasn't wrong in his approach per se, but he also never taught me how to establish clear boundaries about acceptable behavior from a significant other. So I guess that my experience did kind of mirror WAL's example...I did get "punched in the mouth" a few times before I figured out that on my own...because at first I was so desperate that I was afraid of scaring people....I was constantly doing the "pick me!" dance.

I still get into clashes with my dad to this day, because my wife and I will decid that (for example) she's going to cut the grass this week...well, my dad will come over and see that she's doing it, and tell me that I'm her husband, I should be cutting the grass for her. To me, that's bullshit, because it assumes that I should dedicate my life to making my wife's life as easy as possible....which to me, is tantamount to assuming she's inferior in some way and shouldn't be held accountable for things we decided as a couple she's do. Fuck that noise. I refuse to be married to anyone who's NOT an equal.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
MoreWould
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Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WR

Well, damn brother, welcome to SI, the best club nobody ever wanted to join. And, BM is the best place for the Menz. No knocking the other threads, I've learned a lot there too, but those Girlz think different than us, and sometimes we get a little crude and that freaks them out. Bring it here, you can't offend us, or scare us.

And here's the craziest and most comforting thing about it all. No matter how messed up your sitch is, or how you feel like God must have singled you out for some kind of unique and special torture, we've heard it all before. Those WWs are all working from the same playbook.

One quick example from my life, then I'll let the other bros jump in and console you too.

We didn't have a bad marriage at all, and I was a fucking great husband (even in bed), but my FWW still decided she'd be better off riding dick off the reservation. And then, when she got busted she said

she "didn't know how much it would hurt me."

Word for word dude. Word for fucking word. It's like some kind of spooky intergalactic mind-meld with them.

You can pull hard on this rope. We're here to help.

[This message edited by MoreWould at 12:25 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WR
Ill be the one to say this
Welcome to the club that no one wants to be in. Get yourself together. Eat well , sleep well, get plenty of fluids and take care of yourself first. A good place to start is betrayed men 10 but the beginning is just as good. Your story is very similar to many of ours and her response that you offered is a canned one many WW's use.
You will see that they all for the most part fit into a familiar pattern as if they were taken over by the same entity.
Know this
It is not your fault. No excuse justifies an A.
This is a hard road
Do not let her see you cry or whine.
Do a 180. Definition is in the healing library.
Detach from her.
She needs to fix herself. You can't do it.
she "didn't know how much it would hurt me."
Me too. Word for word then added that she didn't think I would care.
Peace

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 12:22 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WhiskeyRiver-

First off- welcome.

Welcome to the world's largest all-you-can-eat shit sandwich buffet. Sorry you're here.

The A is ongoing, as well. She has not expressed any desire to break it off. She also claims that she "didn't know how much it would hurt me." Yeah, our M was kind of dysfunctional for a variety of reasons, but that she didn't think I'd give a fuck is just plain crazy.

I don't know how much reading on here you've done, but that "she didn't know how much it would hurt me" line is pretty common with WWs...once they're involved in an affair (or in the early stages), they basically mentally check out of the marriage, and convince themselves via mental gymnastics that they have a 'dead marriage' or that they 'love you but are not in love with you'...they assume that you tell them that you love them because 'you have to' or because 'you're her husband' It's pretty common, unfortunately.

The fact that her A is ongoing is basically a non-starter, man. I mean, fuck that. She probably thinks she's in love with him....*finally*(finally!) found what she's been searching for her entire life....that *magic penis* that will finally make her feel like a whole person inside, because clearly that's *all* she's been missing.

I just don't see how you can go anywhere except to D unless she ends that shit. You can't force her to, she has to make that decision for herself.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bring it here, you can't offend us, or scare us.

That's for damn sure.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WR, this is a good post for you to read:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Document everything, get a lawyer, change the locks IMO, separate your finances immediately, figure out what your boundaries are and communicate them to her without expectations.

If she is still involved in the A do not put anything beyond her right now. Don't be malicious but protect yourself. She's beyond reason ATM, while she may come back you should prepare for the worst while you hope for the best. If she looks at that like it's hostile then, well, remember that she IS hostile right now.

Good luck, sorry you are here.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A good place to start is betrayed men 10 but the beginning is just as good.
Yeah, I went back to like BM6 or something and started reading as a lurker. There's nuggets of gold everywhere. I'd start there, and the thread titled "Men Only-Timeline for Gaining Respect for FWW"....be careful on there, though...angry WAL resides in those there parts.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
WhiskeyRiver
♂ New Member
Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The fact that her A is ongoing is basically a non-starter, man. I mean, fuck that. She probably thinks she's in love with him....*finally*(finally!) found what she's been searching for her entire life....that *magic penis* that will finally make her feel like a whole person inside, because clearly that's *all* she's been missing.

I just don't see how you can go anywhere except to D unless she ends that shit. You can't force her to, she has to make that decision for herself.

Yep, more evidence of how fucked up my brain is right now. Deep down I think I know this, but for some perverse reason I'm holding onto this filthy piece of garbage that used to be a marriage. Her leaving is the best thing that's happened in weeks.

Word for word dude. Word for fucking word. It's like some kind of spooky intergalactic mind-meld with them.

You can pull hard on this rope. We're here to help.

That's disturbing but somehow reassuring that that line has been heard by so many here.

...and thanks.

Know this
It is not your fault. No excuse justifies an A.
This is a hard road
Do not let her see you cry or whine.
Do a 180. Definition is in the healing library.
Detach from her.
She needs to fix herself. You can't do it.
she "didn't know how much it would hurt me."
Me too. Word for word then added that she didn't think I would care.
Peace

Thanks, man. That all helps. Like I said above, she's gone, so now I can really detach and work on the other stuff. I've been working on an old aluminum boat restoration in my backyard, and it's been a godsend for distracting me from all this other BS. I've got a pretty decent support network, too, but no one but those who've been there can truly understand this piece of hell.

Thanks a lot, guys. I'll be doing lots of reading and keeping up with this thread. You're desire to help others out makes this an outstanding resource for the recently fucked-over.

Cheers.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

angry WAL resides in those there parts.

Hey, now. Angry WAL is a friend of mine. He's a good guy, just a little misguided.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
WhiskeyRiver
♂ New Member
Member # 39811
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WR, this is a good post for you to read:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Document everything, get a lawyer, change the locks IMO, separate your finances immediately, figure out what your boundaries are and communicate them to her without expectations.

If she is still involved in the A do not put anything beyond her right now. Don't be malicious but protect yourself. She's beyond reason ATM, while she may come back you should prepare for the worst while you hope for the best. If she looks at that like it's hostile then, well, remember that she IS hostile right now.

Good luck, sorry you are here

.

Thanks, I'll check out that post. And that's great advice. I've been basically immobilized by uncertainty, but I will consult with a lawyer ASAP.


Yeah, I went back to like BM6 or something and started reading as a lurker. There's nuggets of gold everywhere. I'd start there, and the thread titled "Men Only-Timeline for Gaining Respect for FWW"....be careful on there, though...angry WAL resides in those there parts.

Thanks, I'll get on that reading.


Posts: 22 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: New England
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whiskey,
didn't know how much it would hurt me

Ahh yes...my version was "I wouldn't of done it if I knew how much it would hurt you". Uh huh. That's pure bullshit by the way - the truth is they never contemplated how much we would be damaged by their betrayal, because that would of infringed on their having sex with Mr. Too Good to Be True and Mr. Amazing, who is the only one who really understands them and listens to them. Makes them feel pretty. Flatters them. Can't think about the fucker Sal described, the one who
committed to me for life, he's the father of my babies, he pays my mortgage, he bought me a car, he loves me even after I retained weight after giving birth, he goes to bed with me each night and is there when I wake each morning
. My wife would still be swallowing his throat yogurt today if I hadn't found out about their affair, so obviously she never considered how much it would hurt me. Spent a lot of time figuring out how to hide it from me and keep it secret, which kind of hints she knew that it would probably fuck me up if I found out. And of course, there was the part where I told her it fuck me up...but hey, what did I know?

And your wife is so concerned about how much it hurts you that she is still consoling the POSER? That's fucked up. Not exactly the behavior that screams "I'm sorry for hurting you". You don't have to file for D, but I would at least visit a lawyer. The worst thing that can happen isn't that you get divorced, it's that you stay in a marriage where you are getting sloppy seconds. Sometimes filing for D is the only wakeup call that works to save the M; it's often said here that you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. And the one who cares the least hurts the least. So detaching might be one of the strategies you look into.

Sorry you are here mate. I'm sorry we all are.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's a good guy, just a little misguided.
Some of that 2007-ish stuff you posted is interesting in that it voices my feelings now, to some degree. Also, it's funny seeing you seeking advice as opposed to dishing it out. It's like seeing your teacher at the grocery store.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
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