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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, July 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah. 19 unbelievable. She's a cute little bunny and a military vet.
Be that as it may....
I didn't go. I didn't really want to. I'm not going to stray or RF or whatever. Was never my intention. I have been explicitly honest with WW. I told her ill speak or hang out with whoever i want to. I'm not sneaking around. I won't be deceitful and ill speak my mind.
It's weird. When I told her the deal she looked crushed. Seriously. I never saw pain like that in her face. Finality. Game over.
I'm not enjoying that
The last two days she went over her feelings. About her walls and defense mechanisms. She owned her infidelity. Everything she never said before.
Maybe because all this time she relied on my loyalty. Took advantage of it. She knew I had integrity. I couldn't stoop so low. When she saw me communicating its like she knew that was it. And don't get me wrong it was it. I explained to her I am beginning to move on. I told her I was done trying to fix her. She has to fix herself. She agreed. I don't know. It's all unconventional.
I explained to her that in 13 years I never so much as hung out with another woman. I didn't want to the other night. I told her that her texts to me made me come home. I told WW that I wasn't into even drinking with another girl and said how the fuck did you feel comfortable fucking someone else. She said she didn't feel comfortable, that it was fucked up. And went on to say how very very sorry she was. She wants to fix the marriage. Be close again and be devoted to only each other.
Well see what happens

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 6:13 PM, July 5th (Friday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, July 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She wants to fix the marriage. Be close again and be devoted.

Step one in fix the M is Mrs. B444 fixing herself, which can be a long and painful process. At the end she may be better, but not "cured".

It is fine she is sorry, but fixing "pretty fucked up" will take effort. How long are you willing to wait and see what happens?


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
FeelingSoMuch
♂ Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Devil's advocate: As much as this sounds like revenge, I read it as 444 giving himself a healthy ego boost.

It's horrible to be rejected by the person closest to us. It's nice to know other people are interested. And telling his wife sounds to me like an effort to say, "see? There's a lot of value to me."

If 444 had wanted revenge it sounds like could've. He went home and tried using this to further show his WW that she didn't value him.

That's how I read it, but that's just me.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
The hard part: They still work together.

Posts: 465 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feeling so much hit the bullseye on every level. Like a B-52 heading to Moscow with a nuke. I aborted. It was a drill and only a drill.
It felt great that I can enter back into that world without skipping a beat. I let her know that others value me. I saw that lesson hit home. She couldn't fake that look. Since then she's been a different woman completely. She says she's fighting for us.
Trust me I'm taking it step by step.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trust me I'm taking it step by step.

That's all you can do, isn't it? I'm glad she's demonstrating some 'fight'. That's really what it comes down too. How bad does she want the M? What is she willing to do to fix herself? What is she willing to do to win you back?

I've read it somewhere but can't remember where but the summary was that a M with a WW fail to R either due to lack of passion in the WW (most of them have checked out before the A) or due to anger from the BH. It's nice to see she still has some 'passion' for you and the M. I'm still working on the anger part myself.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey TC
Hope you all are enjoying the weekend.
My WW has been inseparable. She spoke at great lengths about where she was at. She owned up to a lot of shit. She has been nothing but passionate. She wanted a promise that we would only be with each other from here on out.
I believe that is how she feels right now at this moment. Moment by moment is how I see things now.
I told her that I was going to file last week but my Atty was on vacation. I was going. I said that here. I was done. Finished. I saw no remorse from her. I honestly was done.
I said maybe karma or whatever gave her an extra moment. I had been waiting for her to come around for months and I had to let go. She knows I would never stray so seeing me reach shocked her.
I asked her how that felt. Why does she want to fight for her family now. She said that I did and now she's going to. She's not going to let us go. She said she had to many walls up. Was embarrassed and was in self preservation mode. She said she said hurtful things to me as a defense mechanism but none of it was true. She said OM was an asshole and used her. She confessed that she was an idiot and put herself in terrible situations. Dangerous situations. And was sorry for all of it. She cried the other night for hours. She said she had candles lit. The house clean. Romantic music and lingerie and I just left her. She cried in front of her dad.
Well see

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 8:10 PM, July 6th (Saturday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She wanted a promise that we would only be with each other from here on out

dunno why this stuck out. seems hypocritical KWIM? Wasn't that the promise she already broke? I remember my W making this resolve a few months after DDay; it was as insincere as her previous promise of "forsaking all others" because she harboured(s?) the AP and a ton of other shit/lies(TT)/deceit from her A's for months/years afterwards. FTN.

Sorry to be a party pooper bro, just focus on ACTIONS; talk is cheap. Its only with consistency (we're talking months here) that you will be able to determine true resolve, not through romance or declarations of fidelity. Sorry but BTDT soon after DDay and it was a massive fail. The key component in determining the difference between shallow feelings and drive? Is she unraveling herself and her crappy coping mechanisms and has she a PLAN to deal with them thoroughly? (not just dumping them at your feet)

I see ACTIONs when I see the truly remorseful WSs down at wayward constantly post, ask, try to fix, indulge in self criticism and analysis and then post results and progress with BS/IC etc... Not once or 5 times, but over the course of months and years... CONSISTENTLY.

be strong.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
nomoreplease
♂ Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

b444,

I'm with noescape, I don't want to be a downer, but I do want you to keep your expectations realistic. And I have no idea where your situation will go so I am just giving you a story of another who has BTDT.

She wanted a promise that we would only be with each other from here on out.
My (STB?)XWW (D was supposed to be final yesterday, but won't get the papers for a few days) wanted us to renew our vows while she was still banging POSER. Words mean nothing.
I asked her how that felt. 
You are playing a very dangerous game. Think about this, she sleeps with another guy and you ACT like you are going to hang out with another girl. [sarcasm] Just about fair, right? [/sarcasm] The thing is this incident will be used against you if she is unremorseful and she will be convinced she is in the right (and you're a decent guy who knows it wasn't completely on the up and up so you can't argue). If she is unremoreful there are no rules and you will always lose. I could have written almost your entire last paragraph 2 years ago, but it didn't amount to anything more than words. I hope you don't face this and I hope her remorse I legit, but I want you prepared I case it is not.


'one walks away saying "I fought to save God's ideal," and the other must always admit, "I fought to destroy God's ideal!"'

Posts: 343 | Registered: Jul 2011
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if she is unremorseful and she will be convinced she is in the right (and you're a decent guy who knows it wasn't completely on the up and up so you can't argue). If she is unremoreful there are no rules and you will always lose.

Could've written that word for word. Whatever rules are agreed between you 2; if the WS is unremorseful - they only apply one way (because remember the justifications make it ok for her).


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, July 6th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444,

Everything she is saying will mean more around Labor Day when sustained actions have backed up her words.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TC,

you wrote:

...the summary was that a M with a WW fail to R either due to lack of passion in the WW (most of them have checked out before the A) or due to anger from the BH...

I think that is a good summary and has been true in my R. It is GROSSLY UNFAIR, but like 444 said, we are the cops and get judged by rules and processes that we have to follow.

Anger for some reason is the R killer, even if it is wholly justified. Our anger pales compared to the offense of the WW, but becomes the issue du jour. It feeds resentment, avoidance, justifications, etc. - all the negative ninny nonsense that went into the embracing of the A.

-- Jack


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

to top it, MC, reverse the roles and see the outpouring of support for a BW when SHE is angry etc... etc... but LO AND BEHOLD how DARE a MAN (BH) get angry. how DANGEROUS, how HE's responsible for making it an unsafe environment for full disclosure...blah, blah, blah

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is certainly a double standard at play. Male anger is often seen as "destructive" or unhealthy... Female anger is often viewed as righteous, or justified, or she was pushed and couldn't take it anymore.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She said OM was an asshole and used her. She confessed that she was an idiot and put herself in terrible situations.

Sounds all too familiar. I swear, women are just better at some things than we are - including making excuses for affairs. If I had cheated I don't know that it would have ever occurred to me to say that it was about everything but sex.

Sorry 444, just ranting about my own situation,


Our anger pales compared to the offense of the WW, but becomes the issue du jour. It feeds resentment, avoidance, justifications, etc. - all the negative ninny nonsense that went into the embracing of the A.

Right, which is something I actually pointed out to my wife in the very beginning. All those doubts and insecurities in your head about our M that you suggest lead to the A? Well guess what, I really do have issues with you now. So, tell me why those excuses should give me any comfort?


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Cannon
♂ Member
Member # 32440
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey gents – been a while posting, but I’ve been pretty faithfully checking in.

Just thought I’d share my BH playlist for any of you that are big music fans like myself. It’s a great one to burn off some steam or anger, and superb for working out to.

Don’t mean to offend anyone with some of the lyrics, but most of the time they hit the spot for me and say things I can’t say to her…

Prime Mover – Rush
“Anything can happen….”

Mouth for War – Pantera
“Speak the truth about me – determined!”

Born Free - MIA
“I was boooooorrrrn FREE!!”

Monkey Wrench - Foo Fighters
“I’d rather leave than suffer this”

Time To Get Away - LCD Soundsystem
“Shocked – to think I used to pity you…”

Bitches Ain't Shit - Ben Folds
“Bitches ain’t shit but hoes and tricks”

You Fucked Up - Ween
“Well you dicked me over, but now you’ll pay”

(It's Gonna Be) I Told You So - Drive By Truckers
"You picked up crazy and you let it in your head
One day it's gonna be I told you so
I'm all full up from the shit I was fed
One day it's gonna be I told you so"

Lyin Ass Bitch - Fishbone
“I really thought our love was much too strong
But that little slut just proved us wrong”

99 Problems - Jay Z
“If you havin’ girl problems I feel bad for you , son
I got 99 problems but a bitch ain’t one”

Brainwascht - Ben Folds
“She’s brainwaschet you too”

Piss Up a Rope - Ween
“You can put on your shoes, hit the road get truckin’
Pack your bags, I don’t need the agg..”

Stockholm Syndrome – Muse
“I won’t stand in your way
Let your hatred grow”

Waiting on a Friend - The Rolling Stones
“I’m not waiting on a lady
I’m just waiting on a friend”

Baby Bitch - Ween
“Fuck you you stinkin’ ass ho”

Ready to Start- Arcade Fire
“Now you’re knocking at my door
Saying please come out with us tonight
But I would rather be alone
Then pretend I feel alright”

Alandria – Foo Fighters
“And when you said I couldn’t give you enough
I started giving you up”


Me - BH, 41
Her - Bi-polar WW, 41

Status: Divorced and relieved


Posts: 127 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: .
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sounds all too familiar. I swear, women are just better at some things than we are - including making excuses for affairs. If I had cheated I don't know that it would have ever occurred to me to say that it was about everything but sex.

Ashamed to say it, but about a year in to my marriage I was flirting with some girls on FaceBook and my wife saw it and was (understandably) angry/hurt. I, (apparently) like a dumbass, accepted full responsibility for my shitty actions.... my wife even asked me multiple times if she had done anything to make me unhappy, and I told her, "No, you're fine, I'm fucked up. This is on me." Needless to say, that was not MY dday experience.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
didiknow
♂ New Member
Member # 39410
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, July 7th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just finished reading the first book of two called
Women's Infidelity: Living in Limbo.
The STBXWW and I have both read it and we both agree that it feels like it was written specifically about us, it's spot on.
I can't begin to tell you how highly I recommend this book to, not just betrayed men and their wayward wives but to anyone that is married or thinking about getting married.


Me-BH (38)
Her-WW (27)
M Aug 29, 2010
D-day May 25, 2013
A #1 June 2012
A #2 Late 2012-May 2013
No matter what "new" information you find out, it's all just part of the same iceberg, hidden under the surface.

Posts: 50 | Registered: May 2013 | From: wa
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 3:39 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dik, not much time for detailed response. you're wasting your time with that book.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
spareparts
♂ Member
Member # 33434
Default  Posted: 3:42 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444

Think about this, she sleeps with another guy and you ACT like you are going to hang out with another girl. [sarcasm] Just about fair, right? [/sarcasm] The thing is this incident will be used against you if she is unremorseful and she will be convinced she is in the right (and you're a decent guy who knows it wasn't completely on the up and up so you can't argue).

Is spot on, I can even prove it!

Last summer I had filed for divorce, Decree Nisi was granted, my STBXWW (at the time) was living with the OM and my kids. I had bought her out of our house and payed her off. I went out and ended up having a brief fling with someone back at my house. When she broached me with "remorse" and wanting to fix out marriage back at the start of the year, we were already divorced. I came clean about everything I had done since we had been seperated (that was about it bar a few random dates). She lost it, punched me, took all our kids clothes and stormed off threatening to never have me see the kids again. She calmed down eventually but now sees my moving on after divorce as proof that she was right to leave me because I was only going to cheat on her eventually.

Messing about with 19 year olds may be fun (i'll take your word for that one ) but ultimately you have now just handed her a rather nice weapon that if she is as unremorseful and unstable as the rest of your tale has us believeing, she may use against you in the future.

SP


Posts: 515 | Registered: Sep 2011
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, July 8th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anger has been by far the most difficult aspect of all of this for me to deal with (along with the underlying pain of betrayal). How do you guys 'cope' with your anger? (working out has been my go to) How do you think you have 'effectively' displayed your anger to your WW? (I haven't) What do you wish that you didn't display to her? (I wish I displayed MUCH more than I have)

To me this anger is becoming a big issue now that I've given it enough thought to start to understand it. I can see the tendency is going to move towards resentment and indifference without some corrective action. I used to think that it was because my WW hasn't been very remorseful, but I think that even if she suddenly became humble, broken and remorseful that my anger would actually be intensified. I would ask myself - Why would she want to start acting 'correctly' now?

There is also a part of my anger that is self directed. I'm angry with myself for wanting to fight so hard for a M that has obviously meant so very little to my WW. I'm angry that I've allowed myself to put up with this crap for so long.

Any perspective or experience would be appreciated.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 8:23 AM, July 8th (Monday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
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