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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know why my WW continues to amaze me. I'm just not very bright I suppose. I've been detaching because she has shown no real signs of progress nor commitment. She told me the other night while she was projecting onto me about her concerns that I was going to find someone new that "it didn't really matter". She slips it in real quickly but the message to me is loud and clear. I don't really matter to her. She has her defenses up. She's not going to let me hurt her. I don't know how to work with this. I don't think I can.

So I've been a little more distant lately and I get a text this morning.

So sad u never text me in the mornings anymore! Guess I've lost priority in your life and that makes me a little sad maybe someday I can get that priority back. :( It's fine. I understand. Hope your day is good.

Unfortunately no she doesn't understand and that is the real problem. I wish I could hold out and not respond for awhile but alas I can't. My reply:

I don't intend to send the message that you're not a priority. Texting isn't the only way and even that goes both ways. I do think my actions overall have demonstrated an overwhelming commitment to you and the marriage.

I so need to get out of this push-pull dynamic. She wants me to be 'all in all the time' while she puts out only superficial effort while all along keeping one foot out the door and ready to leave if I don't play along. I'm so done with this crap.

FP had asked if anyone had read 'Codependent No More'. I'm about a third of the way through. It describes my WW exactly.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 9:44 AM, June 28th (Friday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TC, I feel you brother (no gay). Dday was in May, and my wife already thinks we should have moved on.

The best way to describe it is that she is ready and willing to do all the things a newlywed couple would do to be happy. In addition, she will give lip service to "feeling terrible," etc.

She shows regret that she made this terrible decision. She is pissed off at OM. I believe she genuinely hates him.

However, she refuses to truly accept the pain that she caused me. She is entrenched in her narrative that the marriage was dead.

She gets really angry when I suggest that she is hanging on to defenses because she can't really allow herself the burden of what she has done.

She has even said that if we D it will not be because of the A, but because of pre-existing problems.

And yet, she shows no willingness to get to the heart of those problems.

Going forward with a marriage after an affair is incredibly painful even if the WS is remorseful and "gets it."

If those elements are not there, and therefore the chance of success is slim, I just don't have the stomach for it.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Holy shit TC
It's seems to be a phenomenon.
If you read the texts from my WW that I post here they read exactly the same way almost verbatim.
Same tone.
After so many months when they think the coast is clear or were weakening they start employing a few tactics. Some of the prevalent ones are the other woman. When I detach or start taking care of myself it is another woman's fault.
Like last night. I went out to a place to eat and have another drink and she says have fun with her.
It couldn't possibly be her giving dirty BJ's. nope.
Second tactic. I'm not loving, texting, or worshipping her enough. It's my fault. I'm neglecting her feelings. Maybe they hope they trigger that fight response.
After dday I guess we were balls to the wall trying to reconcile. Meanwhile they were getting validation from POSER.
As our light comes on that attention begins to wane. They get pissed and frustrated they aren't on center stage anymore.
Perhaps they have done so many dirty things that they will never tell us and feel that what comes around goes around.
If my WW was willing to throw away her whole family I have no idea what kind of porn star she became to impress OM. If she admitted to making out in a POS vehicle and having her head pushed down what isn't she willing to admit to.
She told me I made her A more exciting In My head but I'm sure she wasn't sub par. Not for that risk.
It's a game to her. I'm sure she wants it all to go away and for me to go back to sleep and play the happy husband game again and it pisses her off to no end that I'm not following the script.
I believe she's using guilt tactics. She can't believe I'm still not over it.
When I file for D I know it's going to hit her hard.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 9:47 AM, June 28th (Friday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she is hanging on to defenses because she can't really allow herself the burden of what she has done.

and definitely ...

I'm sure she wants it all to go away and for me to go back to sleep and play the happy husband game again and it pisses her off to no end that I'm not following the script.

She tries to control me with guilt. How I am feeling or acting affects her way too much. She cannot self soothe and doesn't want to examine what she has done. If I act like things are 'ok' she doesn't have any hard work to do.

A follow up text from her:

I understand texting is not the only way and I text u every morning after I get everyone semi settle! But it is a way to say just thinking about u during the day when u can't talk! But that's fine and ok if you don't have those feelings just before u used to text me all the time but I guess all the doctor's that u go to say not to so I will live with that

She really hates detachment. Yeah, it's the psychiatrists' fault that we are having problems! [Sarcasm Sign]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
nomoreplease
♂ Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She shows regret that she made this terrible decision.
She knows at some level that she made a horrible decision and went against what a decent person would do, but.(I had a counselor once tell me that when you make a statement and include the word but it means to disregard everything I just said because this is what I really mean):
She is pissed off at OM. I believe she genuinely hates him.
She is entrenched in her narrative that the marriage was dead.
She was living in a horrible situation, and OM took advantage of her, so shes not responsible for her choice and therefore why would she:
truly accept the pain that she caused me.
and then:
because of pre-existing problems.

And yet, she shows no willingness to get to the heart of those problems.

Of course not, you are the heart of those problems and if you could just get your shit together you could have a great M.

It all boils down to an inability to take responsibility.

[This message edited by nomoreplease at 10:39 AM, June 28th (Friday)]


'one walks away saying "I fought to save God's ideal," and the other must always admit, "I fought to destroy God's ideal!"'

Posts: 343 | Registered: Jul 2011
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She says its ok if you don't have the same feelings as before?!??!
Why thank you very fucking much for giving me permission to feel this way

A little subtle control tactic
I find it very difficult to feel the way I did before but they expect us to.
They expect us to feel for them the way we did before they blew the marriage up and gave their sacred virginity to someone else.
Nonsense. This is why I don't think I can continue. These women all say the same thing.
I have had women cheat on me before. Girlfriends. I never stuck around. I left and forgot them.
I was like you stupid bitch. See ya.
They would call. Periodically try to come back. But I never did.
When I was dating WW an ex called. I was crazy about her. Gorgeous and fucked like a bunny. A real spinner. I couldn't get enough ever. She cried during sex a couple of times because she said she was so happy.
My WW was upset. I told her it was closure. Not to worry. I was not taking her back. Obviously I didn't. And honestly my WW has never gotten close to what I felt with that ex. Mentally, physically, or spiritually.
I told WW when I get that call from her, and I will, there will probably be another woman with me telling me to hang up.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 10:44 AM, June 28th (Friday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I specifically asked if we could have an entire conversation without using the word, "but."

Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i think there is one thing we need to realize and that is, no matter what they've done, if we divorce, they will not take the blame... ever.

I for one have always wanted the person who did the wrong to admit it and take responsibility. But I've noticed that rarely happens in life.

I don't think it will ever happen for people who have been wayward.

So we have to make our decisions knowing that our WW will not ever take responsibility regardless of what they've done, and will tell everyone they know that we were at fault. Their fragile egos won't let them take the blame.

btw - i don't post much here, but i read often. I've got a lot of insight from you guys as well as a few laughs.

i hope everyone has a good weekend.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a little more venting if you would allow it...

Some background on the whole 'texting' thing. WW has told me numerous times how 'needy' I was and that I texting her way too much. Personally I hate texting. It is primarily because my WW reads way to much into everything I say. Anyway, so I sat down once and counted up how many texts there were between the two of us. It averaged about 10/day. Compare that to the 100s/day with the POSOM. And I'm the needy one?

I know that texting itself really isn't the issue at hand. It is her feeling a little less in 'control'. I'm not following along with the script very well right now.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So TC, were you needy or emotionally unavailable (just assuming she used the latter line).

Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i think there is one thing we need to realize and that is, no matter what they've done, if we divorce, they will not take the blame... ever.

Once we D It won't matter. I have a feeling that once I go through that door I will discover a brand new state of mind. That has always been the case in the past. Like a much better life awaits.

TC
Vent as much as you want bro that's what we're here for. Sound off.
My WW said the same thing about being needy but she was talking to POSER for hours at a time at all hours of the day and night. Usually she called him rapid fire until he would answer.


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mike7,

I for one have always wanted the person who did the wrong to admit it and take responsibility. But I've noticed that rarely happens in life.

I don't think it will ever happen for people who have been wayward.

I am desperately seeking to R with my FWW. I've had 5 LTR's(including this go round) that involved infidelity. First 4 times I dropped her like a burning sack of shit. That included a M and a custody fight. They showed no remorse. Regret, oh hell yes.

If FWW was truly incapable of showing true remorse, I'd be back in court fighting for custody yet again. However, she's trying hard. Due to FOO issues, it's gonna be a long haul.

If you truly don't believe a WS is capable of true remorse, I think you need to check out the Wayward thread. It's actually been a great help in terms of showing me what true remorse looks like and what blowing smoke is. Check it out.

TC,

Same sitch. Hers was primarily a texting EA. Couldn't wait for me to get out of the house so she could start texting/sexting him. 100's/day. Me? 5-10. Now I've demanded similar treatment. Doesn't have to be 100's, but dammit, her initiating sure would be nice.


Got 18 in already, gonna prolly head down to the pool for laps and the weights. Thanks for your inspiration guys.

Then of course a few Jack(Black, I'm cheap) and cokes while grilling.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2073 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So TC, were you needy or emotionally unavailable (just assuming she used the latter line).

No. It's kinda like the 'Goldilocks and Three Bears'. The pourage is never just right. It's either too hot or too cold. It seems to be just a vicious cycle of control. I talk too much or not enough. I work too much or not enough. I hug her too much or not enough. I tell her ILY too much or not enough. I want too much sex or not enough. She can apply it to whatever she thinks applies at the time to try to change my behavior so that she feels better.

I'm really liking "Codependent No More". Unfortunately I do think I have 'mirrored' her in some ways. I'm a perfectionist and a little obsessive. My day job is all about trying to solve people's problems. So, I would have to say I've struggled with truly letting go of the outcome. I do it well some days and not so well others. I'm getting better. That's all I can ask of myself. One brick at a time. I don't like pourage anyway.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 11:46 AM, June 28th (Friday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No. It's kinda like the 'Goldilocks and Three Bears'. The pourage is never just right. It's either too hot or too cold. It seems to be just a vicious cycle of control. I talk too much or not enough. I work too much or not enough. I hug her too much or not enough. I tell her ILY too much or not enough. I want too much sex or not enough. She can apply it to whatever she thinks applies at the time to try to change my behavior so that she feels better.

Why does she have a say in this. She gave up that right. In a functioning M, sure. Ain't there yet. Right now, you need to be healing you. If she really wants R, she needs to not only fix herself, but help you also. The right to bitch about porridge temps is way down the road. She needs to appreciate the fact that there's some in the bowl!


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2073 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They don't see it like that
They had their egos stroked
They were validated
In their minds they proved to us that they can go out and fuck anyone
We need to win them back.
In their minds they will only give us so much time to play the victim, throw pity parties, play the martyr card. Then that's it
Get over it

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

5454

nothing is impossible. i believe in redemption. but i think is is very rare indeed, especially in these circumstances.

notice that i also said if we choose to divorce?

i think it is easier for WS to "seem" to take responsibility when we agree to stay with them. If it's a dealbreaker on the other hand, I think human nature, particularly for a WS, will eventually take over.

They will say, "it wasn't the A, that was just a symptom of bigger problems. if it was true love, we would have stayed together. clearly it wasn't true love."

But maybe i've become cynical.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444, therein lies the difference between remorse and regret. There's no playing victim here. You took the bullet for the M only to look up and realize the weapon was in her hand. She has to acknowledge that she was the one who pulled the trigger or what's the point of staying. There's another in the chamber and her finger is starting to feather.

Mike, I totally agree that redemption is rare. Who likes to admit fault? Todays society trends the other way. Blame someone/thing else. Personal responsibility is rapidly becoming a scarce commodity. Cynicism is becoming a survival tool. Trust but verify is the norm rather than the exception.

If it ever reaches the point where she only "seems" to be *getting* it, I'm out the door. I've won custody once, I can easily (lol) do so again. An authentic life is the only thing I will tolerate. As I stated earlier, there are some in wayward providing examples of what that looks like. I fully realize that I'm in a marathon with a fully packed ruck on my back. Odds are pretty heavily stacked against me, but if she's putting in the effort, I will too.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2073 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i agree 5454.

i sometimes like to read what's going on in the wayward forum because it gives me reason for optimism.

there's some pretty impressive people there.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read more in the Wayward Forum than anywhere else. There are many remarkably insightful people over there that can be brutally honest and pick up on things that continue to evade me. There are many who have found 'redemption' as it were and have worked hard to do so. Inspirational. Right now, my WW isn't one of them. If only a nice wayward could come into her life armed with 2x4s.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Mikey56
♂ Member
Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, June 28th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

5454real,

I am also 5 for 5. Two Ms and 3 LTRs. Like you the first four times I walked. This time I decided to go for R. I'm here to tell you it is a lot tougher than starting over.

I was really starting to question if all women cheat. I was also asking myself WTF am I doing to cause this over and over? I now realize that it is not about me, never was, period. That helped a lot. I ask myself why not say "fuck it" (the handy phrase that can be used to justify any action) and start over.

Here is the thing for me, I think there is a chance that my WS will get it and we will come out on the other side better than before. Something you said really hit home:

An authentic life is the only thing I will tolerate

I am 9 months out. Things keep improving. No more bullshit. It will either be much better than before or it just won't be.

I have been working on getting to a place where I am good with it which ever way it goes. I know what I want and I know I can't control her.

Enjoy the weekend my Betrayed Warrior Brothers.

I'll be here all week...try the Veal.

[This message edited by Mikey56 at 1:24 PM, June 28th (Friday)]


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