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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

15 lbs. for me as well. I started running about a year ago and was already down about 15 lbs. on D Day, and within 2-3 weeks I lost the other 15 lbs. After a two week break from running post D Day, I started back again, so the weight hasn't come back. I'm at my lowest weight since around '93 or '94 when I was still in the service.

I took Wednesday off and went to a local water park with the family. When I took my shirt off, I overheard this: DD13: "What's different about Dad?" DD15: "He's skinny!"

At 44 years of age, I'll take that any day.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He'll yeah Sal!!

For instance, she tried to tell me that the reason she continued the A, was that she thought the M was dead, but she kept coming home to me, kept going to MC? She didn't like me pointing that out very much

Dude mine said the same EXACT thing. I thought the marriage was dead. You didn't love me. I thought you wouldn't care.
All bullshit. Nice rationalization and a great blame shifting tactic. Remember they wanted strange dick. They were prepared to defend themselves waaaay before we caught on and the were probably months ahead of us in post dday tactics. I think the reason they aren't remorseful enough is because I know I wasn't hard core enough. I was one of those guys that just wanted her back. I was willing to forgive and R before logic kicked in.
When they see that you just gave them the power. Your fucked. They will feed you crumbs.
I should have went right for shock and awe. Laid it out firm. I should have prepared for D and meant it.
I should have flat lined our marriage before thinking about CPR.
She has too much power.
Even after all of her nonsense she has a sense of control.
She has the mentality of a 16 year old.
Shit. Now she uses trickle truth as a weapon when we argue.
He fit better
He was a great kisser
I gave him a BJ for money
Almost like she wants me to knock her ass out ( will never happen. I will never lay my hand on a woman ill walk first)
So for now I'm waiting for my lawyer to return. I need strength. I'm holding on to the woman I married not this alien pod I'm with now.


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When they see that you just gave them the power. Your fucked. They will feed you crumbs.

amen to that


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444, she may be trying to provoke you. She is, no doubt, trying to hurt you.

Any woman can hand out sex, it doesn't make it special. How she describes it is according to her goals. At the time, her goal was to hurt you.

If her goal had been to ease your mind, she could have just as easily described it as "disgusting" and said how ashamed she is of what she did.

Try not to give her that power.

All you can really tell is she is screwed up and wants to hurt you.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Mikey56
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Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444,

Amen to this:

When things get tough we get stronger. Better. This infidelity has made me reflect on who I am and where I've been. What I've e put up with and how much Ive sacrificed.

I think about this a lot. I lost 30 lbs post DDay, Started running more (I've done lots of 10Ks, 4 Triathlons and one Marathon in the past). I've done a ton of soul searching and I have learned a lot since being serve this shit sandwich...but what a fucking price to pay! This sucks.

Things are improving all the time. My WS is working hard, is in IC and we are starting MC soon.

The tough thing for me is not being willing to settle. It we can't rebuild the trust and make something way better that we had, I'm out. This is not my first rodeo with infidelity and I'm pissed.

Just my $.02.

Strength Brothers...enjoy the weekend.


Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2013
wonderingbull
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Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444...

I remember all the "I should haves"...

I'm 5-6 years beyond the truly painful times... For quite a while I let the negative self talk rattle around in my head... It slowly subsided until it's a voice that's barely audible...

My girlfriend and I were at lunch the other day and she told me she'd give the ex a great big thank you for cheating on me because if she hadn't we wouldn't be together...

On the weight loss front... I was thin to begin with then the infidelity supplements kicked in and I looked like death warmed over... I've since put about 10 lbs on and I'm still thin but i'm not emaciated like I was before...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2nd Amen to this:

When things get tough we get stronger. Better. This infidelity has made me reflect on who I am and where I've been. What I've put up with and how much Ive sacrificed.

I may have you guys beaten on the weight program. I lost 12 lbs. before d-day as I had started a program via work and had changed my diet. The infidelity diet gave me an extra *65* lbs. of blubber loss. I lot of weight lifting has replaced it with about 15-20 lbs of muscle. Alas, since I had gotten to out of shape / obese over the last several years, my six pack is 'still in the cooler'.

I am still doing a LOT of soul searching. The most painful part is coming to terms with how much I put up with from my WW and her family over 20 years - the food became a source of soothing. My WW, as part of a dysfunctional FOO system, doesn't really get that.

Slater,

per your question:

Amazing how we all deal with the same shit. Why is it some WS's get it and other's don't? What is the key factor I am missing? Is it:

a -she just doesn't love me anymore
b -some people are incapable of true remorse
c -she is so afraid of losing control
d -she simply does not know how to be truly intimate and give herself fully to another

I go with answer "d" - it is what informs answers a, b. My WW is hiding something...I do not know what it is...some hidden shame from way back...as a result everything is a mask. Her A was a flight from intimacy not a search for it.

It's good to be in the shape I was years ago. I just need to figure out my career since my slogging away at what I was doing offers no meaning for me anymore now that my denial is dispelled.

-- Jack


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If her goal had been to ease your mind, she could have just as easily described it as "disgusting" and said how ashamed she is of what she did.

Try not to give her that power.


Later
You are 100% correct. At this time my complaining is viewed as whining and playing the victim card. It means nothing. Every line drawn in the sand has been crossed. One of my big problems is that I find myself empathic towards her. I want to do something but ill feel her pain. I am still bound by my word to protect her. Ill get angry, detach, she'll start being sweet, she'll work her way back, well make up, make out, she'll start being a bitch about something I did, well argue, she'll try to hurt me with destructive TT and back to square one. She doesn't realize the dam will break. Or maybe she does. She revels in my weakness.

I think about this a lot. I lost 30 lbs post DDay, Started running more (I've done lots of 10Ks, 4 Triathlons and one Marathon in the past). I've done a ton of soul searching and I have learned a lot since being serve this shit sandwich...but what a fucking price to pay! This sucks.

Of course she's working on it your turning into a god! A selfish WW would never let another woman have you!


My girlfriend and I were at lunch the other day and she told me she'd give the ex a great big thank you for cheating on me because if she hadn't we wouldn't be together...

Wondering
That's beautiful
That's what I'm talking about. What a great thing to have someone appreciate you. I came home from work last night and sighed. After a long day I wanted someone to share my stories with, drink some vino, be appreciated. Instead I ate by myself. Went to my room and locked the door. Watched tv and read SI.
I'm too good for that. What a waste.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 11:32 AM, June 21st (Friday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thought I'd lose some weight, haven't, my eating patterns have changed but I' m lucky to get a mile or two in before bed. Pretty rural here, so by the time I work my 10 hours, get things done around the yard and house, spend some time with the kids the day is gone. Lucky to get a mile or two in on the treadmill before bed. Wished I had more time to get to a gym. Maybe need to make time, let her damn garden die. Although I do love all the fresh food, especially the tomatoes.

Insomnia is a real problem though. Getting a little more some nights now, but for the first three months lucky to get 3 hours a night. Lead to some long Sunday afternoon siestas. The worst is I have this tendency to be exhausted, fall asleep for 15-20 minutes then wake up. That's when everything really comes flooding back. Then I'm screwed, takes a couple hours of history or discovery channels to distract my mind enough to get back to sleep.
Got some advice last week from a physiatrist friend though. Melatonin..."To be taken for about 3-4 weeks every night at bedtime to assist in re-regulating the “sleep/wake cycle” each of us use every night to help push us off to sleep."
Anybody else heard or tried this?

What is the key factor I am missing?

That's the million dollar question or all of us, isn't it!
I think it's some all of the above that you wrote.
First its the dehumanizing they do to justify fucking someone else. We'd be naïve to think that that doesn't involve them telling themselves that they don't love us anymore, at least to some degree. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't have any love for us, the do because they are still married. But there has to be a cognitive process with that diminishes that love somewhere along the way.
Some people might not be capable of remorse. I however think that remorse is a built in human characteristic, it just that some people are too chicken shit to face it. So your a piece of shit, look in the mirror, learn, stop being of piece of shit. Low self esteem, and weak willed people can't do that.
However some poeple aren't capable of empathy. Something I think is taught from your parents. I know I said this recently, but this one really scares me. If my wife can not come to terms with the pain she has caused, if she can't feel true empathy for me, the chances of another A are good. It like without that empathy she's free to indulge those selfish desires. She didn't learn empathy as a kid, her mother doesn't even know that something called empathy exists. This is what I'm looking to see in her, I don't think R is possible without it.
she simply does not know how to be truly intimate and give herself fully to another

About two weeks ago we where talking and she said,
"I guess I really never knew how much you loved me"
I was speechless, exactly how does she define love then? Makes me questions just what exactly is it that she felt all these years while I was loving her.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

some hidden shame

Jack thanks for that word, "shame".
Something else I wanted to touch briefly on.
If they have any human emotion they should feel shame. Maybe infidelity is more accepted by society to day, but I think that the majority opinion would be that is it a shameful act to be looked down apon.
INMO ore wives have proven two things:
1) that they are weak-willed. As I previously mentioned weak-willed people don't want to look in the mirror at themselves. That would mean that the A is their fault and their fault alone. Had nothing to do with their marriage. They don't like to face that shame.
2) Al least with mine the A happened in part because she needs constant affirmation from others on how worthwhile she is as a person. Now if everyone knows she had an A, she's not going to get that positive affirmation. Think about it, 99% of the responses are going to have a negative connotation to them. She doesn't want that, she wants to be perfect pretty princess to everybody. She can't face the shame of her acts.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 11:43 AM, June 21st (Friday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Insomnia is a real problem though. Getting a little more some nights now, but for the first three months lucky to get 3 hours a night

Today I got a script for ambien. Just in case. I've read it's side effects so it will be used sparingly and not when I'm around WW. Heard it has decreased sexual inhibitions dramatically. I don't need that.
First its the dehumanizing they do to justify fucking someone else. We'd be naïve to think that that doesn't involve them telling themselves that they don't love us anymore, at least to some degree. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't have any love for us, the do because they are still married. But there has to be a cognitive process with that diminishes that love somewhere along the way

Of course brother. They do love you but they have to convince themselves that they absolutely hate you to perform such disgusting acts of betrayal. Mine told me I didn't like you and I liked him a lot. I must have been awesome because she rewrote us from the day we first met and said hello. I've made her miserable from day 1. She went on a massive smear campaign. Got into drugs. I think sex is like a drug. Find a new guy, get validated, repeat. Every guy is a new justification. Every fuck is more hatred towards you until you are evil incarnate. All the lies they tell they convince themselves are true. They are competing against a false you. Your just dumb and happy working your ass off to provide.
They are drowning. It is only when you pull them out of the depths of the fog they start coming to.
But
I think if not done sternly enough. If you don't wrest power and control R will be retarded. It won't work.
It won't work because we're afraid that if we're assholes it will force D
Guess what brothers there actions already have. They already convinced themselves you are an asshole. They were ready to walk.
They have to see the facade with their own eyes. Let it sink in how badly they fucked up.
They have to see the truth with their own eyes. Marinate In it. Let it sink I. And beg for forgiveness.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good past DR. I would add, assuming the WS never developed the capacity for empathy, post A is an especially bad time to expect them to learn it. They have zero interest in learning something that is certain to cause them pain.

As a defensive measure, they want no part of that. It's much easier to lay all the blame for pre-A problems on the BS and offer an exchange of pardons.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ambien
That shit scares me. Heard some nasty horror stories. Careful, highly addictive.

That's why I was wondering if anyone has gone the melatonin supplement route. Supposedly what our body naturally produces and uses for sleep patterns.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They do love you but they have to convince themselves that they absolutely hate you to perform such disgusting acts of betrayal.

Hence the laundry list of inadequacies most BH's are given as justification for the WW's A.

I would suggest that they probably don't know what love is or their idea of love is based off an ideal and not a realistic acceptance of who you are as a person. I know my STBXWW has an idea in her head of how I should behave, act, compliment, cook, clean, show affection, how to be with the kids, and on and on and on. She didn't accept or appreciate what I brought to the relationship.

If they have any human emotion they should feel shame.

I've thought this for a while. I don't expect STBXWW to humiliate herself but a healthy dose of shame can do wonders. WW has never had that. Its something I've noticed from day 1 (red flag ignored) and it has bothered me. I don't recall WW apologizing for anything now that I think about it. Never thought how important shame can be until the A. Those who can face it and come out better (humility?) probably fall under the remorseful catagory.

[This message edited by RyeBread at 12:17 PM, June 21st (Friday)]


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

About two weeks ago we where talking and she said,
"I guess I really never knew how much you loved me"

I heard something similar, DR. She seemed truly taken aback by my grief and the intensity of my love for her. There's no excuse for an affair, but it made me realize the part I played in letting the marriage get stale over the years. Stale enough that my wife of 16 years didn't feel loved enough to resist temptation. But she played an equal part in our marriage going stale, and I never considered cheating.

Now I'm treated like a precious commodity that has to be held onto at all costs. No newlywed husband has ever been more loved and doted on. She's owning her shit, showing remorse, working hard, and all the other SI cliches you can think up. That part of it is nice actually, but damn what a price.

I think I've reached a point where there isn't much anger left, I see her efforts, and realize that all the agonizing in the world isn't going to change one thing that happened. It's early, but I think it's time to move on with R. My kids deserve that, even if she doesn't. Or didn't before.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 12:16 PM, June 21st (Friday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is the key factor I am missing? Is it:

-she just doesn't love me anymore
-some people are incapable of true remorse
-she is so afraid of losing control
-she simply does not know how to be truly intimate and give herself fully to another


I have a hunch in my case it is the latter-mine was molested very young by an uncle. I found this out well after dday. Would have been good to know before M and two kids, but I digress....

I remember her telling me she had never had a broken heart. She's never been close enough to anyone to have her heart broken. I understand CSAb are usually emotionally stunted.

CSAb is pretty common when you dig around some.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I heard something similar, DR. She seemed truly taken aback by my grief and the intensity of my love for her. There's no excuse for an affair

This is another act
Think about it
It's a form of blame shifting and re directing guilt. Now your thinking that you made the marriage stale.
Fuck that!!
It's stale. You don't love me. Ill fuck other men and throw this grenade at you.
They fill their magazine with inadequacy bullets. Put it on full auto and when you confront them they will unload point blank.
Pray and spray.
It's an ambush


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They fill their magazine with inadequacy bullets

Funniest and most accurate (no pun intended) analogy ever.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
nomoreplease
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Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She seemed truly taken aback by my grief and the intensity of my love for her. There's no excuse for an affair, but it made me realize the part I played in letting the marriage get stale over the years. Stale enough that my wife of 16 years didn't feel loved enough to resist temptation.
Sal,
I can’t say this is true in any way in your M, but please take heed of what those of us that have been here several years are saying.
everything is a mask. Her A was a flight from intimacy not a search for it.
^^^^This a million times. I think this is a major reason for why a BH/WW combination is less likely to R than a WH/BW. I don’t think many WH’s will ever say, I desperately needed emotional intimacy so I went and had an A (and if they do, their BW will have their ass), so they have to look at themselves.

On the other hand, a WW will say this immediately and because of how most of us are raised we will agree. From this point on R is focused on the wrong thing, and the WW has all the power (you better give me all the ‘intimacy’ (aka – whatever I want) or I will just have to have another A). None of their issues are resolved and the A is just another barricade preventing real intimacy inside of the M.


'one walks away saying "I fought to save God's ideal," and the other must always admit, "I fought to destroy God's ideal!"'

Posts: 343 | Registered: Jul 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, June 21st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444, nomore, thanks for your input and I definitely hear what you guys are saying.

As for my wife being taken aback by my grief, and the marriage going stale, those were my observations. As for the marriage getting stale, objectively it was - big time. And objectively, I'd be lying if I denied playing a role in it. For years I wouldn't take my wife out on a Saturday night if there was something more important going on - like a freakin' college football game on TV. Seems kind of stupid now.

But I can list a dozen ways that she contributed to the marriage going stale over the years, so it's 50/50. Still does not excuse what she did. If a stale marriage, or the old "my needs weren't being met" were valid excuses for having an affair, I could have had 5 of them by now with a clear conscience.

The underlying issue is that my wife showed poor morals, judgment, boundaries, and coping skills. Basically, she turned 40 and started acting like everyone else in her family after keeping it together for many years. She does IC about 2-3 times a month, and we do weekly MC sessions. For now, that's all we can do. We'll see what the future holds. But I'm damn tired of the rollercoaster and feel like it's time for me to either get off of it or remove myself from the family so they can have some peace. I've chosen the former. I mean at some point if you have a WW who seems to really be trying, you have to give it a chance.

But one thing her A has taught me is that you never really know what's going on inside someone else. Time will tell.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
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