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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is sort of fucked up to admit, but during the A (when she wasn't drunk), she was actually really attractive to me because she seemed to be brimming with new find confidence that she had always lacked. I was so proud of her.

Understand this completely. Can be hard to remember that confidence came out of some fucked up place. It did, but looking back, at the time all I saw was how self assured and confident she was. We had a conversation about this specifically not long ago actually.

Tough shit to work through.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow, on a trigger day for me as well and what a lot of awesome insight/posts I can relate to... and all around pain... its not a pity party but it gives me a lot of support to know that I'm not crazy, that my sitch is not singular in its fuckedupness or that there is indeed a way out (eventually) - thanks to wb for that. sorry for the colossal post that follows, just quotes of stuff i can totally relate to, skip if you tire easily...

slater, sorry to hear about the TT - it really does equate to death by a 1000 cuts. It is DDay all over again; the devastation and the pain ; added to the time since the last DDay as to "who the fuck is this person who can continue to do this to me?". Our brains are screaming with the agony of our souls and yet our hearts betrayed us once again. I'd flop over at every dday and my mind and heart were doing tricks on my sense of being - sometimes its too much for any single person to bear.

I need her to realize the errors of her ways.

tc; sorry to say this bud, but its a fools errand.

I protested but it fell on deaf ears

about the broken NC, tc - as I read a tagline here on SI, you are not the jackass whisperer

They think the got one over on us but its worse, they used our love as concealment.

and once they do this after DDay - it is (as uo said once) a fatal blow to an already terminal injury

As long as she holds those secrets she is still that animal. By holding back the truth she is still playing the game. She's not real. She's hurting me and my kids. And she is still capable in the fact that lies are a continuance of betrayal.

thats why most here say that its not the A that kills the M, its the deceit and lies that follow afterwards....

STD Testing: $300
New Clothes and replacing sullied articles: $10000
Psychiatric treatment for PTSD: $Arm and a leg

A faithful wife: Priceless

dont forget the polygraph, the books, CD's, MC, IC, PI, phone tracking software, VAR, $ to release call/text logs from telecom provider, lost days/weeks/months/years off productivity... I could go on...

The whole process of me trying to R while having nothing but doubts about all the alledged "facts" wore the shit out of me... I thought I saw what I wanted the results of R to be but really all I was working with was a "hopey changy" thing...

right there with you WB... again, it was SI that taught me that hope kills action (or something like that). waiting on hope, we fail to ACT to heal ourselves...

To me if a WW is remorseless she is incapable of R because she will continue to accuse you of punishing her and how can she possibly love you again if we continue in the same spin cycle. A cycle of abuse.
The honeymoon phase
The tension phase
The blow up phase
The forgiveness phase
Then honeymoon phase again
Throughout all of this the actual problem is never addressed and it seems the WW is content with this.
In reality she got hers. She went adrift. Slept around. Had a good time getting "validated" and has no concern about the repercussions except to get us to shut up and let them continue with their house wife facade.

wow, B444, some of the stuff said/done over the past few years (of "working on R" ) has been exactly what you wrote above. Its always "I can't do this because you..."; fact is, fixing herself is under HER ownership not ours. Of course they are content with this and can play the 'good' housewife card - their "suffering" is their penance for their A's. Problem with that approach is that it ALWAYS leads back to the same justifications, feelings of alienation, manipulation, blame shifting and eventually another A (or As as in my case).


She doesn't see how this affected us or refuses to. If and when I cut her loose I think she may see the light.

just dont hold your breath. remember - let go of the outcome, focus on the INcome.

She was a SAHM whose primary role was to be happy - do interesting things, go to the gym, shop, visit with friends. A life I would die to have. . She paid me back by giving herself to strangers on the internet.

If being my wife isn't good enough for her but my generosity and security is all she wants, then she can go find her happiness somewhere else.


tred, i remember at times telling my W (before the DDays) that I would give up a lot to have her life; to spend time with the kids, to not worry about paychecks and promotions and stress at work and 3 hour commutes. We didnt really live it up but we didnt have a bad life either. it wasnt enough though of course... on one of the DDays, she told me how impressed she was with one OMs wealth and apparent lifestyle (yeah, he was having a free lunch off my hard earned bread; no wife to look after or provide for, no kids deliveries to pay for, no vacations, no need to spend time and money on helping her cope with her mothers terminal illness). Yup, what a lucky and wealthy guy. Real attractive.

I was in love with the person I was projecting on to my FWW, and she was hating the person she was projecting on to me.

hits the nail on the head. you neednt have done anything yet you could come out the bad guy in any situation. no, we werent saints and we all have mistakes. well, neither was she exactly the "most amazing housewife and partner" either. the difference lies in the narrative. your narrative was probably that "hey, i love her though she could work on a few issues", while hers was from way before the A "I need to get away from this demon and get back at him for my unhappiness and oppression". as long as this narrative survives, A or no A, remorse will be unattainable.

While I miss a sexual connection, I realize for most of our relationship sex was used to control and manipulate me, not as an expression of love.

and how well we fooled ourselves. I know most times there was lack of connection/satisfaction - yet i *believed*/forced myself to believe that there was some connection. Fact is, for most of my M, that connection had long been severed. i was just unable to distinguish and had settled for what I had perceived to be a two way relationship.

if you would spend time with the person your W is now if she were not your W? Would you date her? Would you M her?

an emphatic NO, NO and NOOOOooooooOOOOoooooo

You can't reason with crazy. You can't sit down and converse with someone that has tricked themselves into believing a false narrative. It is impossible and the more you try to reason with them what they hear is
"He's calling me crazy and this is exactly why I cheated on him. He hates me. He thinks I'm stupid. He doesn't love me. He's an asshole.i hate him, nothing's changed, it's always my fault"

thats naughty of you B444, have you been eavesdropping on our conversations??? (or actually her brainwaves)

Who is this person in the bed next to me? I thought I knew her, now I know I didn't. There has to be some true parts in there, some really good parts. I just don't know what's real and what's the "good wife" façade. She's lost all benefit of the doubt.

and thats the rub, isn't it? I am not one to demonise everything about my W. God knows she has some excellent qualities. Problem is I no longer know/nor trust my judgement of what I see of her; is this the facade, or is this authentic? On another forum, she once posted, "see, I am good, arent I?" (or something to that effect) and a few posters called her out on that; self esteem issues, trying to prove to unknown people that she was good somehow (as if it mattered - rather than actual work and self realisation), seeking approval rather than looking at herself and being authentic to herself first rather than projecting some approval/validation seeking self to others...

Unless your an OM. Then they get to rewrite their lives. Rewrite their good parts. It's a blank canvass and they get to start over and reinvent themselves. Always reinventing and fooling other people until they get wise to it. Then it's time to move on again.

THAT^^^^

and

I'm the only sucker to stick around this long or I was strong enough to keep her attention and overlook her flaws.

THAT^^^^

I keep thinking about the pre-M days and I asked her once about "why me?" and she responded (I should have had ALARM bells go off at this) "you are the one that persisted"... uhhh yeah....DING!DING!DING! suckerrrrrrrr. forget truth about the A(s) I am so uncertain of her pre-M past as well, there were so many hidden nooks and crannies (and quite a lot of TT from then and recently ABOUT then as well)...

My WW has told me several times that she 'didn't expect me to stay'. Amazing. I lose her respect by trying to be honorable even when she knows she isn't worthy of that honor. Talk about a no-win situation.

yup, ditto and I think I not only lost a lot of respect with her (which showed/shows through continued deceit, etc...) but also for myself. as if her affairing and lying and gas lighting wasnt humiliating enough... i'd like to think that my staying till now was primarily dictated by that honour and fighting for my kids future. I now know that I have/had tried everything I had within my grasp/capabilities (and more) to salvage what I could.

My WW created quite a few hurdles and she definitely wouldn't be a "trophy catch"

its such a sad realisation, I always took pride in her and "my trophy catch", to think she has degraded herself to this... brought that second hand/hand me down goods center near my house to mind.... "one mans garbage is another mans treasure"... sad to think that thats what she values herself at

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
aesir
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Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well...I felt like there was too much action (ie, explosions, fast camera work, etc). I appreciate a good story with some depth. Movie felt kind of rushed. Don't want to throw out spoilers but lots of focus on Krypton and how it relates to superman. Could be cool to some but it gave the movie almost a sci-fi feel more than a superhero feel. They didn't really establish the main comic book characters very well either. Will be interesting to see where they take the sequel (because we all know there will be a sequel).

Superman is a bad character to base a story on. He doesn't have any weakness to overcome, its just here is a problem and he is so awesome. The only story ever is how somebody manages to collect some of the remnants of his home planet.

Not certain about the sequel, they did one not long ago and did not bother with a sequel, probably for the reasons above.

Ever wonder why when guys shoot at Superman the bullets bounce right off with no effect (even the bullet to the eyeball in the last movie), but then when they are out of ammo and in desperation throw the gun, Superman always ducks? What's up with that?


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what you said aesir:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-its-so-hard-to-make-superman-interesting/


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep thinking about the pre-M days and I asked her once about "why me?" and she responded (I should have had ALARM bells go off at this) "you are the one that persisted

And boom goes the dynamite!
Mine told me that she would either pursue or be pursued. Get together. Then lose interest and move on.
As soon as she would sleep with someone it would be over.
I think now she was easily manipulated.
I always told her, and I was genuine,
That I believed in her. She was quirky, couldn't really handle her booze, and had issues but I saw inside of her. Truthfully she wasn't even the best sexually. I broke up with an incredible girl before her. That girl cheated so I didn't hesitate to drop her.
I overlooked those flaws. My WW was a trophy. Very attractive.
She has given me 2 gorgeous kids but now? Really.... Nothing. Horrible. Disgusting. Like a bad dream.
My buddy just got back from Afghanistan. He's a para rescueman, a PJ, in the Air Force. He was in disbelief and said it is the worst thing he ever heard. Pills, bills, affairs, and an arrest. He was like hit the quick release dude. Although he understands with the kids and all.
Yep. I believed in her. She rewrote herself. Her story got better. She adapted and I imagine her script gets edited as she moves along.
But as SAL said she's no trophy now but she would be an easy bang.
When I confronted OM 1 it looked like he's was relieved and done. He didn't fight for her. He didn't chase her. He quit his job and got as far away as possible. I even tried to call him on her phone a couple of times. He never picked up or returned the call.
She had laughed and said she was done with him anyway and was going to break up with him the day after dday , which actually fits her history, but when I told him to move out and they were over she looked sad and forlorn. Like she wanted to chase him. It sucked.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

as I read a tagline here on SI, you are not the jackass whisperer

Lots of great stuff in your post NE, but when something makes you laugh and brings clarity it's noteworthy.

I am not sure if "jackass" is the most acurate term (BPD, NPD, princess, etc) but the point is well taken.

It should give us pause. They would resist the message that they need "work" no matter who told them. What are the chances they will listen to us, of all people?

They never listened before, and now we are the evil villains who are constantly trying to remind them of something they would rather forget. And, although they know they are not supposed to say it out loud, they believe we caused this.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And, although they know they are not supposed to say it out loud, they believe we caused this.

throw in a "come to jesus" moment BEFORE DDay (or any kind of realisation approaching remorse) and you can imagine the super-demonic depths you will be cast into for making them fall so low that they committed such a deadly sin!!! OMG, what a moment of truth Later (Edit-thought it was tred).

[This message edited by noescape at 6:28 PM, June 17th (Monday)]


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Until they understand that happiness comes from within, nobody can ever make them happy because they will never be happy unless someone is entertaining them.

& that is why they blame their unhappiness without - the natural target is us. We're close, a known quantity, easy to paint as evil villain for reminding them. (insert evil laugh here, Later!)

Oh, even before SI, my regular mantra was; "I'm sorry you feel that way."
It frustrated her so much, that she resorted to more screaming, more dramatics, more histrionics.
She was desperately clinging to the belief that she could train me (as before) through punishment not to bring it up - not to say that phrase.

Put my boat on a reef too.
I just went swimming.
FTN!

That ats quote is in the quote thread now. It is very wise, very helpful to have and internalize going forward.

Thinkingclear – you’re not being selfish, unless being selfish is healing yourself from a deep wound.
The A, for the WS, is the epitome of selfish, stolen ‘me time’.
It’s ‘me time’ for you now brother.
Was it your WW the poser contacted @ film & back? (fishing for contact)...
I think you'll find a phallus-shaped object migrating up the spinal cord - destination cerebrum.

noescape: their "suffering" is their penance for their A's

Is that not truly a sick sack o shit? Anyone reading here who gets that from a WW should bootheel down on that.



Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

borrowing your quote tred for my tag

PS, jj-can you point me to the quote thread?


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At the top in F&G

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=246918

It's a gold mine.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
didiknow
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Member # 39410
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep thinking about the pre-M days and I asked her once about "why me?" and she responded (I should have had ALARM bells go off at this) "you are the one that persisted"... uhhh yeah....DING!DING!DING! suckerrrrrrrr.

Holy shit!
My STBXWW said the same freaking thing when I asked why she married me.
"Because you were persistent"
WTF

Once in MC, before the A, the counselor asked what attracted us to each other.
I listed a bunch of stuff, beautiful, funny, intelligent, blah blah blah.
Her response:
"His niceness"
Seriously, that's all you can come up with, I was nice to you.

I had red flags from the beginning of the relationship but that's a post for another day.


Me-BH (38)
Her-WW (27)
M Aug 29, 2010
D-day May 25, 2013
A #1 June 2012
A #2 Late 2012-May 2013
No matter what "new" information you find out, it's all just part of the same iceberg, hidden under the surface.

Posts: 50 | Registered: May 2013 | From: wa
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At the top in F&G
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=246918

It's a gold mine.

Thanks for that. If any of you have not found that thread yet, you owe it to yourself to peruse it.

My favorite lines sa far, and I am paraphrsing (on xanex and bud light):

Sometimes you have to stop wondering why the turd smells so bad and just flush the fucking toilet.

When you are in a relationhip with someone who is fucked up, they have an annoying habit of doing doing fucked up shit that is not good for your well being.

He is not a better man than I am, he is not a better lover than I am. They are just two fucked up people who for a moment shared their fuckedupness.

My apologies to the originals, but be flattered they stood out.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 12:08 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is not a quote form that thread, but:

Tomorrow, I am going to do something that surprises myself. I don't know what it will be, but if you have goats I suggest you hide them (just in case).

Seriously though, I feel like a lot of us had shitty days. Here is tomorrow.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
thinkingclear
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Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all. 2x4s welcome as always. Much better day so far. Can't wait until tomorrow. Going to do some diving with or without WW.

Doing my best impression of 'me time'. If I keep trying, maybe I'll get good at it.

Yes jjct that unfortunately was me.

Was it your WW the poser contacted @ film & back? (fishing for contact)...

He moved 5 states away physically, but has fished for her attention all along. Apparently she is a bigger prize than I give her credit for. I know he's not the issue, but I admire the restraint you gentlemen have shown. I would have a lot to loose. Getting privileges and maintaining them at facilities is an ongoing process that a criminal record would severely hinder. I'm not sure I would be strong enough to resist the primal urges if we ever met face to face.

Anyway. Back to having a good day..


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Apparently she is a bigger prize than I give her credit for.

Nah, the POSER is the one you are giving too much credit...he's actually a lot stupider than you think.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure I would be strong enough to resist the primal urges if we ever met face to face.

I know what you mean. A week ago I saw a man who looked liked OM at a function it was conceivable he would be at -- walked directly to the guy through a crowd. Once a got close I could tell it was not him. Poor guy was kinda freaking out.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
thinkingclear
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Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nah, the POSER is the one you are giving too much credit...he's actually a lot stupider than you think.

I know and agree. I guess I needed to hold up my 'sarcasm' sign. A real catch isn't he? Holding out for his "soulmate'. I take at least some solace in having had the 'pleasure' of banging his 'soulmate' about 400 times since their last embrace.

I didn't have my head in the right place for a long time and put up with way too much. Even without SI and the wisdom here, I realized after the latest break in NC that NO ONE is worth putting up with that crap (not even for my kids). She get's that I've reached my limit and has made some minor changes. There is a part of me that wants her to break NC just one more time. I have finally let go of the outcome and would walk away with a clear conscience that I did my best to keep our family together.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 8:29 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a saying that while probably not 100% accurate, seems to hold in a lot of situations:

You have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it.

Sounds simple. Hard to get to that point, but I believe I did when my wife destroyed her laptop so I couldn't get any more information off the hard drive. I just didn't give a shit any more, hope had died that I could verify she was telling me the truth. I don't know if she saw that in me or not, but she should have because I was on the verge of walking. I was cold inside with anger. That was when I decided that there were no more straws. If something comes up or I find out more information that isn't volunteered, we're done. It will be a shame, because we are really compatible, but if she is holding on to secrets then she is still a cheating whore protecting her and her AP. I'd rather get a divorce and then pick up mail order bride that will pamper me. I'll know from the start I can't trust her, but I won't feel too bad about providing for her and using her because at least it will be an honest business relationship. Nothing more. I won't have to protect my heart because she'll never have it.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My STBXWW said the same freaking thing when I asked why she married me.
"Because you were persistent"
WTF

Wow...I got the "persistent" line too. She said it was what attracted her to me. Now I realize what she really meant was, "I really like that you pursued me to make me feel special. Because we all know that I am special and it is up to you to re-enforce that for me."

Check please!

[This message edited by RyeBread at 9:00 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
ssi0318
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Member # 39225
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Once in MC, before the A, the counselor asked what attracted us to each other.
I listed a bunch of stuff, beautiful, funny, intelligent, blah blah blah.
Her response:
"His niceness"
Seriously, that's all you can come up with, I was nice to you.

DIDIKNOW - Almost exact same thing. Our first MC (way back in February), before I knew for sure that the A was going on, asked the same question. I gave a similiar sort of answer, beautiful, engaging, lights up a room with her personality. She said about me, "He's a good listener". You don't fucking say. You know what else I'm good at? Finding shit out. That was our first session, when we were in our individual sessions, the C told me basically that I need to work on detaching, to try and protect myself, as my WW was already very detached (C's words). Wish we could've stayed with that MC, she was great and would have nailed my WW to the wall, but found out that LMFT weren't covered by my insurance, so had to find a new one later (after I confronted her with the evidence about the A).


Me-BS
Her-WW - probable NPD
M 11 years, T 14 years
3 kids, all under 10
DDay 3/18/13
I'm not happy - Nov-12

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