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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 11
SI Staff
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Member # 10
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When push comes to shove, remember that you know a whole site full of men who were willing to sacrifice everything for their kids instead of being the ones to burn it down assisted by some antiquated belief that daddy is optional and mom controls custody.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First!


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1604 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well my nights of good food and a few beers are over for now. Spent the evening in the pool with the little man. Priceless!

MC_Jack


Figuring out what I want extends well beyond M, R, and WW

I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve followed many of your posts over on LTA and you have always seemed to be very good at introspection. Keep up your hard work, as it will pay off. This ties in with my own issue of self-respect, not from a loss of self-esteem because my WW made the choice to sleep around kind of way, but from a what do I REALLY want from life perspective. What does living an ‘authentic’ life look for me? I know that I have a few things to improve about my own emotional maturity – fixing myself. My M and handling the aftermath of her A as honorably as I can is just a part of the work that lies ahead.

DefiledRage

I have noticed other married women but for a different reason. I look at them and my inner dialogue starts saying things like:
She looks happy; I bet she's not cheating on her husband

This was exactly my feeling for a long time. I attribute it to my ‘bargaining’ and mourning the loss of …

The fantasy of being married to someone with those qualities has been killed. My wife's infidelity killed it.

StillGoing
I think we all react to this situation in a fear response. It goads a fight or flight - I think every single one of us has been launched into that adrenaline zone and panic survival to some degree - and attacking your wife is just not acceptable. So it's fear management and situational control in a constant state of danger, and that shit is a hard place to make good calls. Getting out intact and sane and protecting as much as you can is an optimal result.

Outstanding perspective. I agree completely. Unfortunately for me, the fear response seemed to have, at least temporarily, uncovered a few poor coping skills of my own. I buried the emotions of her A down deep and tried to rug sweep myself, which is exactly what my WW wanted. I didn’t do it because of her but because I wasn’t well prepared to deal with a trauma of this magnitude. That is just a part of the fixing myself project that is still underway. Sharing my thoughts and perspective here are helping me tremendously to that end. I hope I’m not being too ‘selfish’ because I feel as if I am taking a whole lot more than I am giving here.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 8:44 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say, at first I though you guys would be as big of losers as I am....
Seriously though,

I want to point out I was joking with the loser comment. Just don't want anyone wasting time responding to that.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did anyone bring the Budweiser clock from the last thread? The one that hung over the bar?

I can't seem to find it in the moving boxes.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
stilllovingher
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Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

uncovered a few poor coping skills of my own

This is completely normal, trauma has that effect on most people. Look up some professional articles on coping/defense mechanisms and you read about all sorts of "immature" or "maladaptive" tactics. They exist in all of us, and severe trauma tends to bring them out.
Its usually temporary, and if you have already recognized them, you have progressed onto more adaptive and mature mechanisms.

in other words:
don't beat yourself up over it.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sharing my thoughts and perspective here are helping me tremendously to that end. I hope I’m not being too ‘selfish’ because I feel as if I am taking a whole lot more than I am giving here.

For what it's worth, the thought of you being selfish has never crossed my mind -- although I can understand the feeling. I feel the same way at times.

I think we may be "giving back" even when we feel like our posts are all about ourselves. (Of course, someone else may read this and think, "oh lord, Later is never going to STFU." )

[This message edited by Later at 9:03 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
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Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh lord, Later is never going to...

Nothing to add, just wanted in on the first page here.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
dday3302011
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Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The problem here IMO isn't that you were the one steering, it's that you accepted compliance for participation. In the moment it can be hard to see what the difference is so it's not so easy to say that if you'd done something differently you'd have a different perspective on what to accept in the moment there. You said she wasn't defensive or impatient, but the things she did are classic defensiveness and impatience - blameshifting, TT, etc. You said it yourself, you gave her credit she didn't deserve. You wanted to see something that wasn't really there.

@StillGoing, agreed. Also part of the reason why I called myself a desperate pussy. I was desperate to label her efforts to comply as something more, and my fear was what led me to do that. In hindsight, some of the behaviors were hard to recognize at the time, but I knew she didn't have the drive to accurately self-assess and the follow through to implement real change. I was doing those things for her. Reading articles in Wayward, sending her the links, asking her what she thought, etc. Not that SI is the only tool available, but it's pretty fucking valuable in my opinion and anyone who's really interested in analyzing their fucked-upedness could use a healthy dose. xWW was never interested in coming here. I remember thinking "red flag!!".

When I said that I agreed with the WS driving R, I should have said driving their own healing. My R had almost none of that. I did all the reading. I did all the analysis. I started all the conversations.

Point is SG, you're right much of R has to be driven by the BS. The WS can't possibly know what the BS wants as far as details, timelines, and a million other things. Because of that, it's also a great opportunity for image management experts, and passive control compliance wizards to fall back into their comfort zone and pretend to be introspective and digging for answers when all they really are doing is the same shit they've done from jump.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
ReunitePangea
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Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all of your awesome posts guys, I put them to go use the other night when discussing my WWs LTA with her.

It's been 8 months since Dday for me and I had been thinking I had one of those unique A situations where I wasn't going to get the typical list of demands with the M hinting that that was the reason for the A. My WW was already dating the OM (not to my knowledge at the time) the first day we meet and it continued on for 12 years. I thought there is no way possible that she could say in any way I did anything to cause it right? Well she finally tried, albeit softly with subtle things like I am not affectionate enough and wasn't fullfilling her needs at times and thats why she reached outside the M.

Thanks to all of your posts I knew better than to go down this line of thinking and shot those attempts down pretty quickly. I let her know I appreciate her letting me know her wants but in no way was I going to accept having this associated with excuses for why in your own mind you thought your actions were acceptable. She quickly backed off and took full responsibility again. I am sure I will have to play defense again on this topic but I will be ready.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 405 | Registered: Nov 2012
DefiledRage
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Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did all the reading. I did all the analysis. I started all the conversations.

This ^^^^.
Its frustrating beyond belief. She's seems incapable of being proactive in the recovery of the marriage. She seems to think that time is going to heal all wounds here.

She thought it must be something like fate when about a month after dday we had an opportunity to go to a professional mental health conference where one (well published)speaker covered how to help clients through infidelity. She was miserable the whole time. It was too hard for her to listen for an entire day because it, in her words, "painted the betrayer as a bad guy." For me it was enlightening, but she just shuts down when I try to talk about any topics that were brought up. I don't know what she expected, whatever it was she didn't get it. This one thing is the only thing that she has initiated on her own.

Almost 4 months since dday, and her responses are already down to "I'm sorry, its all my fault" then nothing. That's it, that's all I get.
I'm still the one doing all the work. She wants it ignore it away.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 426 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
DefiledRage
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Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL
Just found the St. Pauli's Girl sign, but still no clock.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 11:20 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 426 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
stilllovingher
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Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry, its all my fault

sounds more like veiled defiance to me, in that context.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
5454real
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Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Almost 4 months since dday, and her responses are already down to "I'm sorry, its all my fault" then nothing. That's it, that's all I get.
I'm still the one doing all the work. She wants it ignore it away.

What's your response? Personally I'd reply "So how ya gonna fix it?" and then shut down.



BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2068 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SG, well said, thank you. Gives a lot of perspective to the UO thread. :clap:

Question is whether you're still being the fool if you've been through that process of steering and the WS has already been trying to pull the wool over your eyes and demonstrating token compliance... When do you decide you get to make that call to distinguish between compliance and participation, remember, we're pretty whacked initially ourselves, and then, when do you let your WS know that their compliance or pretend R is bullshit (or do you let them know at all)???


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Later
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Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With regards to waywards who do not "get it", I think it is fairly obvious that unless there is a sea change, a dramatic awakening, things will only get worse.

They are making it impossible for the BS to progress. Nothing gets resolved. Meanwhile, they grow more inpatient and more defiant.

There is an ugly wreck waiting to happen down that road.

As long as they do not "get it," I think the BS's efforts to "work on the M or make peace" are counterproductive, as they only encourage the WS to stay in that remorseless place.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL, found a few cartons if buds, Ni clock yet.... I mean I found a few empty cartons

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
DefiledRage
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Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure it veiled defiance, I don't sense any malice in it. It's feels more like 50-50 of rug-sweeping and goading me into showing a lose of constraint. 50% more of the same old pity party woo is me type stuff. Her pessimistic view of life coming out. I've only shown any real anger maybe twice, and I think that bothers her. She wants me to unload on her, that's the other 50%. I refuse.
"So how ya gonna fix it?"

This is good. I'm been trying to figure a way to counter with something that doesn't feed into that line of negative thinking she wants. Up to this point I've really just dropped it, even though I want to scream "It's Not about You for once, just trying to be open and share here". She's really just invalidating my pain when she does it, she doesn't want to face my pain.
I don't know why a simple response like that has eluded me, its exactly what needs to be said. I've been completely over analyzing it, looking for a profound statement to lead R in the right direction.
Next time, I'm quoting you, should be an insightful response.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 11:17 AM, June 14th (Friday)]


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 426 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn, BM10 was a fast episode! Maybe we should rename the thread Fast and Furious? Good discussions all...


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
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