SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So I started thinking about this. I'm going to play a bit of devils advocate here and ask some questions and put some thoughts out there.

H suffered from severe depression at the time of A.

So, yes, his actions destroyed us, but was it all intentional? Was he at fault if his intent was not to hurt me, but look for a way to make himself feel better?

I'm not saying I don't think it was 100% his fault, but just throwing this out there to see what others think.

If he had (God forbid) cancer and that financially detested us, would that be his fault? If he was bi-polar would he be accountable for the actions just because he did them?

I'm not saying H didn't know what he was doing, but in light of the depression, I need to remember it was not his intent to hurt me. I need to remember that he was so messed up.

I need to remember that he has earned forgiveness by his actions everyday.

Why is this coming up? Why is this coming up now?

I absolutely agree that a WS's behavior after D-Day can restore an M, but the lack of intention to hurt doesn't mean much to me. At all.

My W said she never intended to hurt me. Boy, I can't even imagine what she'd do if she intended to hurt me, given the amount of damage she did without intending to....

But, again, why is this coming up now? What purpose do you think it will serve to remember he didn't mean to hurt you? (No sarcasm here - you might be onto something good, even though I can't see it.)

What?!

No. Just no.

I don't care what the circumstances are - choosing to have an A and put your BS through the emotional roller coaster - there is NEVER an excuse that is ok with me.

Do not justify his actions. Whatever the reason - he should have come to you FIRST and addressed it.

If he was trying to make himself feel better, he could've sought IC or opened up to you. Having an A is a choice. My H was very depressed as well, but that is no excuse. I can understand how he was pulled into the A while depressed, but it doesn't excuse it, or make forgiveness any easier.

My WH suffered CSA, his FOO has a history of A's and he never felt like it was safe to really open up to another person. Because of the CSA (at the hand of older boys) he felt an enormous need for female validation. Does it make it easier to understand why he would make such a devastating and hurtful choice? Yes. Does it make it any less selfish or intentional? Absolutely not.

I think having compassion for your WH and his struggles can help with healing and R, but don't let him off the hook that easily, he needs to be looking at how he was able to unintentionally hurt and destroy the spouse he was supposed to love and treasure forever.

If he was bi-polar would he be accountable for the actions just because he did them?

Well, IMO yes, even people with "disorders" need to be held accountable for their actions. This may make them "more" forgiveable to certain BS in some situations, but it is their fault and I would stop short of asking the question "was it really his fault" because to the me answer is an obvious yes.

Many many people suffer from depression and do not choose to cope by having an affair.

I suffered from depression and sought therapy, trying to talk to my spouse and meds. My husband chose to have multiple affairs to cope with his issues. Sure he didn't intend to hurt me, because he never intended for me to find out.

Oh and because of the 5 years of infidelity I now suffer from severe depression and massive anxiety. I'm still choosing *not* to have an affair. I went back on meds, back to therapy.

My fwh is a model fwh now. But it doesn't negate his horrific choice nor do his "issues" give him an excuse.

Nope, no devil's advocate here.

Yep his fault. My FWH had an EA as we were having issues and then years later had a ONS because he was drunk. We had issues, I didn't have an EA and I have been drunk and didn't have a ONS. His choices.

I've had bouts of severe depression stemming from PTSD, and even at my lowest I knew the difference between right and wrong.

Was he at fault if his intent was not to hurt me, but look for a way to make himself feel better?

Flatlined, I think this applies to all almost WS's. There are those who have an A to intentionally hurt their BS, but I don't think that is what most WS's do. My FWH didn't set out to find a way to hurt me and he was looking for a way to feel better. His mother was dying. He is an alcoholic and he had very poor coping skills at the time. Does any of that make him less accountable?

Not in my book. He could have chosen much more constructive ways of dealing with his pain, but he chose an A. He's come a long, long way since that time, and I've forgiven him. But he's still accountable for what he did.

Every WS is broken in some way, and I think there comes a time in the course of R when most BS's can look at the context of the WS's life and see how the damaged person the WS was led to the A. It's a huge leap for any BS to make, but it goes a long way toward helping to heal the M.

But, no matter how much compassion I have for the pain FWH was in, it was still his choice- freely made and without my consent- to self-medicate in that way without regard to how it would impact me or our child.

There is never a single justifiable reason for a married man or woman to cheat. Cancer, bipolar, std, hepatitis, diabetes, depression, midlife crisis...

None. If there is are any problems in the marriage such as huge neglect...then suck it up, grow some balls and face your spouse and tell them "I dont want to live like this anymore, the love is gone and I want a divorce". As painful as that is, betrayal of this magnitude is much more painful

[This message edited by Offhispedestal at 7:33 PM, June 10th (Monday)]

No.

Stop. Just stop.

First of all, there is no excuse for destroying your family by having an affair.

Second, my DD's dad had bipolar disorder. I can tell you right now that when he had an outburst and slapped me across the face, his judge didn't give a crap why he decided to physically abuse the mother of his child, and he was held responsible. Anything less would have been unjust.

Third, I have struggled with clinical depression off and on since I was in the eighth grade. I have never ever cheated intentionally (I was an OW once but didn't know that the guy wasn't single- as soon as I found out, I ended things immediately and told his wife, and blocked him completely). I am offended. Having depression is no excuse for lying to your wife and exposing her to death via terrible STI's.

Fourth, if he had cancer and his treatments put you two into the poor house, obviously that is completely different. He didn't choose to have cancer, and going to chemo isn't a bad choice he would be making selfishly in spite of you.

Fifth- who cares what his "intention" was? The bottom line is that he made a conscious decision to do something that he knew was violating your marriage vows and that he knew would hurt you. Was it his fault? Absolutely. He big fat didn't care. About you, OR probably himself. If he isn't responsible, then who is?

To me, I can understand that the affairs were not meant to hurt me, but to satisfy his selfish needs.

I am just collateral damage.

He pretty much had no consideration for me. So yes, he didn't intend to hurt me because he did even bother to think about me.

Eta: not sure how this would help in terms of forgiveness...

[This message edited by lemony.2008 at 1:16 AM, June 11th (Tuesday)]

Sometimes women who have been abused blame it on their partners drinking, "if only he/she didn't drink so much they wouldn't hit me", "it's not their fault, it's the alcohol talking". The interesting thing is that don't we all know "happy drunks"? People that get silly when try drink, not violent. Drinking doesn't cause people to hit their partners.

Mental illness does not cause people to cheat on their partners, it just doesn't. My WH was working in a war zone when he cheated, was it the Talibans fault? No, he chose to cheat, period.

He also got cancer around the time I discovered the cheating. What a nightmare for sure. Interestingly, our MC pointed out many similarities with getting rid of the cancer and overcoming the guilt and shame of

cheating. I truly believe the guilt/ shame of infidelity played a part in developing cancer.

I respect your opinions and it sure gives one something to ponder! Thanks for starting a dialogue!

Take care!

I'm at a place where I can understand how it happened. Things weren't going smoothly, opposite schedules, adjusting to parenthood, loss of self, etc., and some twenty something whose biggest problem in life is where to go dancing flirts with you and makes you feel good, I get it. It doesn't by ANY stretch make it right, but I get it. That said, however, I haven't forgiven him, and I don't know if I ever can.

There are no excuses. All sorts of things can cloud our judgement, but at the end of the day we need to own the decisions that we make.

I never feel there is an excuse for H having the affair. I hold him 100% accountable.

Some have some very valid points:

I think having compassion for your WH and his struggles can help with healing and R

Every WS is broken in some way, and I think there comes a time in the course of R when most BS's can look at the context of the WS's life and see how the damaged person the WS was led to the A. It's a huge leap for any BS to make, but it goes a long way toward helping to heal the M.

I was just wondering if anyone felt there was ever another reason except for being selfish and having poor coping skills.

Seeing everything that was going on with H at the time helps me to understand why. I don't think I'll ever understand how he could just forget about us and his family.

Just because you found the reason behind the A does not mean he is not accountable for what he did.

I struggle with this too. My H had depression during his A's and I felt bad for him, because I did some stuff that I am not proud of when I had depression too.

Having compasion and understanding for what he did does not mean you have to let him off the hook. It only means you feel for him and know why he did it.

Lets compare this with drunk drivers that kill people. Do you think that since they did not mean to kill someone, they should not be held responsible for their actions? All would answer no, they need to be held responsible. Their actions cause hurt and pain. I know this is an extreme example, but it still the same concept. Your WS did not mean to hurt you, but he did and needs to be held responsible for his actions.

Was he at fault if his intent was not to hurt me, but look for a way to make himself feel better?

Very interesting. Let's ask the parents of the young girl who was kidnapped a couple of weeks ago by a young man who had no intention of harming her. He just wanted to kidnap her for a short period of time, release her, then "find" her and rescue her and become the hero. What, in fact, happened though was he taped her mouth shut and left her in the back of his pickup until she was "missed", and when he went to retrieve her and release her, she was dead.

So, according to your statement there, he shouldn't be held responsible for her death because he didn't mean to kill her, then he has nothing to be forgiven for or charged with. Interesting theory.... but I think this young girls parents will strongly disagree.

I don't think a lack of intent absolves someone from being 100% accountable for their actions.

I was just wondering if anyone felt there was ever another reason except for being selfish and having poor coping skills.

Not really, no.

Depression can be crippling. I suffered from PPD and had to pull myself out of the depths of it. But even though I didn't recognize it for what it was, at first, and didn't know how to cope, I acquired those skills.

I think it is wonderful to acknowledge your H's depression and have compassion for him. It will help you reconcile. But it is not a reason. There is other stuff underneath that is the reason.

Sure he didn't intend to hurt me, because he never intended for me to find out.

I laughed.

BTW, do any of them ever say "I meant to hurt you?"

I guess "it's not what it seemed" either.

Anyway, I say their "excuses" are only significant to the extent: they need to understand their behavior, you need to understand in knowing whether to R, and you need to know what to look for in the future.

As a silly example, if your wayward had an A because seeing white pickup trucks throws him into a state of poor judgment and adulterous lust, you may want to think long before reconciling.

There are a lot of white pick ups out there.