[This message edited by scaredyKat at 9:40 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]
I don't know if this will be of any help to you or not but, I will put it out there. My SAWH was diagnosed by a family counselor. On d-day he only admitted to having sex with a hooker he found on CL, twice. I told him that I couldn't consider staying unless we got into therapy ASAP. He drug his feet like most passive-aggressives do and, after 4 days had still not called anyone. He decided that we could handle by ourselves with on-line material. Can we say CYA & denial?
I didn't even pretend that would be an option and told him if he couldn't find someone that very day I was leaving to go stay with a friend. He was able to schedule an appointment at a christian counseling center that afternoon. Weird. The counselor we happened to get was in her early 40's but, very sharp. She pegged him immediately but, waited a couple of weeks to confront him with it. He rebelled and said it wasn't so but, after taking the SA quiz, accepted that after years of escalating acting out, he indeed had become an addict.
She informed him of what he needed to do, gave him contact numbers to find SA meetings and that was it. He quit seeing her shortly after but he did start going to SA meetings immediately. He started seeing a male counselor who ironically, we had seen about 15 years ago for marriage counseling. He resented having to spend $80 a visit back then when he didn't have a problem. After all, he loved me and couldn't understand why I had issues with the marriage. He stopped going after about 3 sessions. Now I know that even back then he was buying blowjobs and lingerie models but, I digress.
We found out that this new counselor actually took our insurance which eased the financial burden we had so, I started seeing him as well about 4 months ago. We go individually and every third visit we go together. So far, so good. There are only two CSATs in our area and the feedback on them was iffy. So, although my SAWH isn't seeing the specialist, he has made drastic improvements. He is all about recovery and schedules his day around meetings and phone calls to his sponsor.
I frankly don't know what the outcome will be but, for now it feels like we are headed in the right direction. I'm sure if it all eventually falls apart I will have some regrets about the decision to carry on without the input of a CSAT.
I have come to believe that addictions are only what they are allowed to be. I was a smoker on and off in early adulthood. It was a challenge but, I quit. 30 years ago after my daughter died following a brief illness I used copious amounts of alcohol to numb my pain. It became a habit that continued until about a year ago. I was confronted by one of my daughters so many times I began to resent her intrusions on how I chose to loosen up and have a little fun. As time went on, I came to believe I couldn't have a good time unless I had a few drinks. I finally realized what I was doing to myself and those that loved me. I actually had to face the idea that my beloved children would choose to not be around me if I was going to drink. I chose to stop doing those things that were damaging me and everything I held dear. I have never looked back. Even through all of this shitstorm, I have stayed the course. I believe it is largely a matter of self discipline. Personality disorders aside, I don't for a minute believe that they have no control over what they do. Not.for.one.minute. But, that's just me.
I think they have just never had consequences that were severe enough to them to stop. We impose what we feel are severe consequences but, I'm not convinced that the addict is as affected by it as we think they should be. Before d-day I could have told my SAWH that I was going to leave him and I would have gotten an "ok, be that way" response. It has to be the "OMG, I stand to loose everything that is important in my life" if I don't stop this behavior type thing. The phrase coined by Oprah "That Aha moment". My SAWH actually had his.
Over the course of my life & career I have seen friends and others as well fall into the trap of addiction. I've seen some stay there and wallow but, I've watched others who by sheer will and determination fought their way out to have a happy life free of their drug of choice. I have no medical evidence or research to back me up. Just what I have personally been through and witnessed for myself.
The odds may be higher for those who ulitize CSAT's but, I don't know if that has been proven or not. I believe the odds are strongly dependent on the motivation of addictto repair their underlying issues.
I didn't accept addiction for myself and I'm not going to accept it from my husband either. I don't care how he goes about fixing himself as long as he does it. I have come to accept that if he can't find it in himself to be true to what he knows is right, he is not the man I want to spend the rest of my life with anyway.
ETA: I know that there are many, many circumstances where my line of thinking doesn't hit the mark. I truly mean no offense to anyone. Every one here is dealing with their unique situations. We all have our special level of hell.
[This message edited by outtanowhere at 11:46 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]
I got extremely worried when he said he could be treated in 20 or so weeks, to what my husband said, well if I am to be in therapy for years, maybe it's worth it to try this method now for 20 weeks and see how it goes, if it doesn't we can try something else. I guess I can agree with that and at least he is trying to fix his problem. However I have made it clear that any physical acting out and I am out of here. So I don't know if we should try to see if it works and risk a relapse.
Another thing he says is that he doesn't have withdrawals from the acting out, so maybe he isn't an addict. I said well maybe because it has been only a month and a half and he has been going to his SA meetings every day to keep him accountable, I don't know. But what about 3 months from now? 6 months? I'm so confused.
He has been doing everything I ask him to do, but who knows how long that is going to last. He isn't a bad person, and before I discovered his secret email we were a happy couple. He has always been sweet with me, yes the sex was almost non existent, but I always thought it was stress related. But regardless, I was happy, which is why it came to such a shock to me. It's so overwhelming.
While CSATs are usually the most qualified, I don't think it is as important as the right fit of an IC. It does bother me that IC is making promises of "curing" mental illness in 20 weeks, that is a red flag to me right there. Second, it is troubling she doesn't believe in SA, or even entertain the idea. So I would definitely insist that you get WH to sign the hippa form and go talk to her yourself, alone, to get the info straight from the source.
The reason being, is that many of the SAs in early therapy lie. Lie to the IC, lie about what they were told in IC, lie about going to IC. Sometimes they lie intentionally, sometimes they are so far in denial they are not able to determine their own reality. So going to the IC directly and alone may clear that up for you. The IC may tell you a whole 'nuther story, and when she talks to you, may find out he told her a different story than what he led you to believe.
My other warning is about the comment about no withdrawal during sobriety. They often lie about that too. Lie about actually being sober, lie about withdrawal symptoms if they are actually being sober, lie about what they say in meetings about sobriety. They may lie because they need to go through stuff with their IC/sponsor first before telling you, or they may be lying to their IC/sponsor too. So those are all possible as well.
I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer about anyone's SA in early recovery. I am glad when they do go and try to do the right thing. I am just saying, from my experience, that all of the above scenarios happened to me. And I am not the only one. So any and all of them are possible.
Everything is so confusing and interrelated.
He likes going to his SA meetings, he said he finds them helpful, however yesterday he said to me that he finds weird that some people have to restrain from even looking at girls because it triggers them, and he doesn't have such triggers, which makes him think he might not be an addict.
And yes I go to S-anon, I find it very helpful, and of course you guys. I will start my IC hopefully this weekend.
Don't worry about being a Debbie downer, you are not, I appreciate and want as much honest advice as possible, whether is a downer or not. For that, thank you.
Double ditto on what Hath said. My husband relayed information to me after his first IC that turned out to be a real distortion of the facts. I don't know if what he told me was an intentional lie but, it was deceptive and manipulative all the same.
He tells me many of the same things your H is telling you. We were at WalMart one day and saw a woman who was dressed very provocatively. I specifically asked him if that was a trigger. "Oh, NO! THAT does not bother me!" Then just last week includes seeing women at the store scantily clothed as something that gets him reaved up. Sheesh.
Your d-day is pretty new. I always hated hearing about how time would make things clearer but, it has proved to be true. Keeping in mind that we are all dealing with slightly different specimens, the disease is all the same. I would caution you to be careful about believing anything he says just yet. Keep your ears open and your eyes peeled. You will start to see reality for yourself as everything unfolds. I'm 7 months in and am still putting pieces together.
I worked in the women's health field for almost 20 years. When fibromyalgia was discovered, there was a general sense among providers that this was not a real disease. Now we know better. It is real and it is a very difficult disease for those who have it to deal with. I feel so sorry for those who endured all that pain while being looked at as chronic complainers with little to no sympathy for what they were going through.
Even tho we are not seeing a CSAT, I'm a little leary of a counselor who professes to be able to "cure" a disease within a given time frame. Especially for someone who doesn't even believe that the disease exists. Almost sounds like it starts off with an agenda.
My h personally feels like sa is most helpful to him. He gets a fair amount out of ic too but for him the sa mtgs and sponsor are the lynchpin. I guess I am wondering whether your h will benefit from sa if his therapist is denying sa?? Fwiw my therapist is not a csat but her view is that most in the therapy world think sa is real they just don't know what to do with it.
Fwiw my h did not have any big withdrawal until a crisis or stress through the roof. Also it is easier not to experience withdrawal if you are still viewing porn, masturbating to it, and/or on hook up websites.
I do think that sa treatment csat style falls down somewhat when dealing with a major co morbidity. But I think it should be in the mix. One option is always to see if a non csat will learn about snd use the Patrick cranes workbook. A good portion of what h does in therapy is work through that workbook.
I was tested for STDs back in February. "Just" BV. But it's a pesky little thing and can't seem to get past it. It's not technically an STD, but I've never had it before and his visit to the prostitute was 11/30/12, so . . .
Intimacy. Wow. I just don't know what to do about that. Detaching from someone who is very tactile and affectionate--and an SA--is hard. I do NOT know how to deal with that.
Yesterday evening, I sat down next to him on the couch--not particularly close but not far away. He pulled me over into a hug, told me he loved me, and asked if I wanted to go get some ice cream (that's my addiction!). While there, he apologized--for the first time--for going to the hook-up sites and flirting with women. I thanked him. It wasn't flowery; it was very no-nonsense. But it seemed sincere, if awkward.
As for the rest, part of me has just decided to never ask him questions I need to know the answers to. I mean, surely there are times he's telling the truth. But I've caught him in enough lies that I don't see the value in having a conversation about any of this: the infidelity, the OW, the hook-up sites, the porn, the flirting, the boundaries, the grooming. I desperately want to believe him, but I can't. Not yet. Not until I've observed truth somehow, somewhere. And that hasn't come yet.
So do I just back off? And wait? And observe? And instead just keep working on myself and interacting with my children? And being ready to be supportive?
As for your counselor questions, SJ, some of that does sound a bit off. At the same time, that could be because of the second-hand nature of the convo. A meet and greet with her could be very calming and helpful for you. Like Outta, I've seen a non-CSAT therapist do wonders for someone. I think the "fit" might be more important than the area of specialty--especially at the beginning. If your WH believes in his therapist enough to try the behavioral modifications suggested to him, then that can't be all bad. My SAWH's second therapist is the one who diagnosed his SA. She was a recovered SA herself and she "got" him. He made great strides with her (7 years ago) even though she wasn't a CSAT. We're at that same place right now because it doesn't appear that Kaiser offers CSATs. If they don't, then ANY counselor he clicks with should be helpful at the point where he is. Who knows? I wish I could give you a more definite answer.
Yesterday was a tough day for me. I've been dealing with some evolving health issues and didn't feel well in the first place then someone at work brought up that this week end is a local annual event on the coast. Arts and crafts and seafood galore. I went to it last year with my sister and a girlfriend. I bet you can't guess what my H was doing while I was gone all weekend.
I was in a sad/pissy mood & had a miserable headache the rest of the day. I got home in time to see H off to his SA meeting then spent an hour or so at my parents house. I got home in time to shower and lay down for a few minutes before he got home. He was in a great mood. It didn't last long because I went off on him. I blame it on temporary insanity but, I lost it. I wasn't mean or condescending. SA didn't even enter in to it. Imagine that!
I feel like my body has aged 20 years over the last 7 months. I now have high blood pressure that results in constant headaches, I have no energy and am probably clinically depressed. I can't figure it out
I got diarrhea of the mouth and informed him that I'm sick of having to go to work when he gets to pick and choose when he wants to work. My parents are getting to the place where I need to be more present. My 85 year old dad needs a hip replacement and right now I can't even commit to being there to help. My mom is completely dependent on him and will also need assistance. I just feel so trapped.
So today H comes in after driving a truck for 12 hours (to help a friend) and is all snappy and curt. We were going to go to the store to get some groceries for a tailgating party that HE arranged. He wanted me to drive but, my vision is extremely limited in the dark after having implants a few years ago. I reminded him of that (seems he can't seem to remember that) and he rolled his eyes and snatched the keys off the counter. The End. I told him I wasn't going if he intended to act like that so, he put the car keys down and got his truck keys and left.
He has been trying so hard for the last 7 months. That being said I feel like I should cut him a little slack for just being human so, why can't I? That behavior just rocks me to my core because that is the cocky person who didn't mind hurting me over and over again and I hate that man!
Realistically, I know I'm expecting too much to think he is never going to be in a bad mood or revisit old behaviors. I think I just answered my own question.
Well, off to have a good day!
I'm sure that if I stay this will happen over and over until I become numb to it. I wish I knew where you drew your strength from that you can encourage others even when you are being crushed yourself. Missy, thanks from the bottom of my heart. I pray for you daily!
ETA : I tried to look it up in iTunes but, couldn't find anything that had that name.
[This message edited by outtanowhere at 8:06 AM, October 13th (Sunday)]