Unfortunately that's the best they can do right now besides showing you true remorse. Positive signs? I would certainly think so!
May the light keep shining on all of us!
Outta - So glad you are having fun with the GBs! Time with kiddos is the best. Don't have any yet, but some of my best friends already do.
Outta! Congrats!! I was thinking of you and hoping you were enjoying your weekend!
SK....pain and indignation..you named what I feel exactly and I think you are right - I need to work the steps to be able to let some of that go.
WIF - that's wonderful news and yes, I think that's all positive signs!
Welcome to all the new posters!
I had a wonderful weekend away for our anniversary with only a few bittersweet moments and one meltdown. The pain and indignation is what did me in on Sunday night...After an amazing weekend I just could not let go of the fact that he was willing to just throw everything we have away...and I kept waiting for him to "share" over the weekend and he never did. It was, in my mind, the perfect opportunity to connect and talk about SA and struggles etc...and in his head, he wanted to just connect and be and not talk about it. I told him last night that the only difference I can honestly see is when he is sharing his feelings, his struggles etc...that the rest of the time he appears to be my wonderful, sweet, patient and kind husband that I've always known and that would flirt/cheat on me in a heartbeat. I keep looking for signs and clues so I won't get broadsided again...and I know in my head this is all pointless but I can't stop regardless...so him talking about his addiction gives me comfort. I need to work the steps..I think this would help tremendously. This morning I also feel awful that I ruined our last night with all of this and yet indignant at the same time...:( He is trying to hear me and help but he is very confused as to what I need from him..which honestly I can't blame him there, I am so confused as to what I need! I can't even write about all of this without getting confused! AHHH!~
boon- so sorry. All of the emotions you are feeling are completely normal. Glad your SAWH is getting the help he needs and you are in IC. One. day. at. a. time.
wif- wooohoooo!! Seems like good signs to me! Enjoy for now, but keep watching - time will tell.
84CF - welcome, and sorry you are here. Read what outta wrote over and over again - she is wise. Feel free to post as much or as little as you like - we are here for you.
UMBL - glad you had a good time for your anniversary. I totally get what you mean about being confused. Sometimes everything seems so clear and other times, it is all muddled. Maybe those are the times that our mind is trying to make sense of something and it is just before a breakthrough? I don't know, but it seems like after those times, something big happens - a big realization, or some peace. Here's hoping that's what's going on with you!
Thank you for the strength you give me everyday...
ETA: SK, thank you for your lovely post. It gives me hope, and it's so nice to hear that recovering SAs and their spouses are some of the wisest people on earth! Also good to hear that the skills we are learning will help us in other areas of our life - makes me feel the LIGHT!!!
[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 12:24 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)]
Oh, and the orchid I bought my first weekend here to celebrate our new life is blooming. It only blooms once a year. I remember how happy I was that day. Hoe excited I was to be starting life in paradise with my best friend. And now here I am. I can't stop crying. How did this happen? How is this my new life?
When you DO make it back here, you'd better look me up. I'll treat you to a meal and a mai tai.
Hanging in there for one more day.
One of the women in my SA spouse group told us about a movie about SA that's coming out on Sept 20th called "Thanks for Sharing." It's a pretty mainstream movie, starring Mark Ruffalo and Gwenyth Paltrow. From the trailer I saw, it talks about 12 step programs, sponsors - looks pretty realistic.
I had the money discussion today. (Background: SAWH and I are working on a budget; we are putting all of our expenses into Quicken. For the cash that SAWH has taken out, he has $300 of a $400 withdrawal labeled "miscellaneous." I had a psycho fantasy about how I would handle it bc I was so angry, but then the wise women on this forum advised me not to go apeshit on him. )
So, I asked him about the money tonight and he................ got defensive. WRONG ANSWER. He acted like an asshole, getting pissed that I was even asking about the money, saying that "I knew you would react this way." (My response? "Then don't fucking do things like this.") He said that he can't put everything on the cc/debit card, said he needs cash for when he travels, that he can't pay for cabs and other things with credit.
I explained to him that if he knows that I think he is an SA, why would he have so much money categorized as misc? My assumption will be that it is going to his addiction. He said over and over that he has receipts for all his cash purchases, so I left it at that. We'll see if he can produce them and if not, I will lay down the law re: NO cash to be taken out.
He still does not think he is an SA; I spoke with him about how the CSAT that runs our SA spouse group was saying that a paradigm shift is coming because there is talk about SA in the media and there are people on both sides: one camp saying that it is real and the other saying it isn't. SAWH's repsonse? "Well, they may prove that it isn't real, just like the myth about mercury in vaccines causing autism was debunked."
He is in such deep denial. I know I should just run, but I am waiting to see what his polygraph shows next month. He is also working on disclosure.
I'm so confused. I know that all the signs are pointing to him not being close to being in recovery. I don't know why I am still hanging around.
Can you ramp up your IC? Maybe make a list of all of your visceral thoughts and fears of what D will mean or feel like -- and then see where you are being too extreme, too global, telling the future, etc and then correct your thought -- this is a classic cognitive behavioral exercise.
I also wonder is a total separation an option? As in everything looks like a divorce but you aren't legally divorced. You have a separation custody agreement and financial agreements. Then if he goes into recovery you could reunite without having to remarry. Just a thought.
Outta: congrats on the grandchild!!
CM: Ugh. I am really sorry. Understandably that raises alot of concerns.
Boon and other new members: welcome!!
So while you can't "force" him to account for cash expenditures, you can say it's a dealbreaker for staying in the M. And even if you D, he will have to account for cash withdrawals as part of the divorce, so he really needs to do it either way. Of course he can choose not to, but in that event you need to divide the assets in half and put it in a different account and leave anyway, right?
So here's what I would do. Again, this is an opportunity to for him to build trust, and if he has any interest in R he would be happy to comply. This is just standard SI stuff, nothing to do with SA really, the WS should be willing to do whatever it takes. He accounts for all cash expenses going forward. Extra credit for receipts for the past month and going back further. This is a condition of staying in the M and considering R. He does not do it, you will re-evaluate your options.
So say he won't do it. Fine. Then inform him now he will now have to do it as part of separating assets, that you will assume all cash withdrawals are for acting out and you will expect to be reimbursed for those as part of asset division. So he still has a choice not to do it, but you will get the reimbursement for that choice.
Say he grumbles and says he will do it. Make sure you are crystal clear with your expectations. Say ALL cash expenses must be accounted for, there is no more "Miscellaneous". Receipts will be kept and shown to you. Cash in wallet should match the difference. You will do the same. You will need to check on this once or twice a week, because it is so easy to forget when you spend cash and aren't used to doing this. Again, he needs to know this is coming from a place of love, and is his opportunity to prove his trustworthiness. As far as he is concerned it has nothing to do with SA.
As far as YOU are concerned, it is establishing and maintaining boundaries that let you feel safe.
Phoenix - Oh, I am soo sorry! It is the sad reality of SA. They say they will stop and don't. When I discovered everything my SAWH acted out again a week later. Then he went immediately to a CSAT. I think it really shook him because he realized he couldn't stop on his own. Take care of you!
Hath - Very well put! You are always so eloquent. I think many spouses in early recovery get confused by the detaching. Detaching is NOT being without boundaries. There are some that are even far along in recovery that don't really believe in boundaries. That tends to show a little magical thinking and is actually a symptom of codependency. I think the SA makes it worse because they keep hearing in meetings that their spouses should detach. It wasn't until my SAWH went to treatment and started with this new CSAT, that they explained to him I absolutely had the right to expect that he be in a strong recovery to be willing to stay married to him.
Anyhow, things are pretty good here. SAWH apologized for being an ass while we were on vacation, and is working on taking better care of his health (including taking his antidepressants regularly).
In reading today's posts I see that I still haven't heard all the tricks SA's use, no pun intended! I had not heard the gift card idea & now have a whole new set of questions for my H.
Seriously, do any of the rest of you ever wonder about your own sanity in choosing to stay with such shifty characters? Makes me even wonder if our church contributions are legit! Ugh!
Phoenix - so sorry. You are sounding strong. Take gentle care of yourself.
Missy - glad your H apologized and is taking his meds.