God help me
At least this fence is mine to own and
This is what I would do.
If your H is on disability and can go back to work, encourage him to do so in the sweetest, I love when you are successful, you're so strong, way possible.
My husband tried to do the crap-husband/creep thing where he was at his lowest. Had I dealt with it as it was, I would have let K Peachey from Denver get it all. She just wanted underwear and sex while tied up - with lots more guys than my husband. Blpghhh. Now she will never get anything and he will never have anything unless he stays with me - and that's all on my terms. Why let the next one get what is yours?
Secure your future and then let what happens happen. I guarantee you that he won't have a future if the girls know he can't have one...
[This message edited by emptyempty at 3:42 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]
Liar, liar. I wish your pants were (literally) on fire.
[This message edited by scaredyKat at 5:41 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]
empty - Wow! I'm impressed!! I just heard about post-ups today as I was reading all the previous posts here. I too live in a non-alimony state but I did find out that post-nups are valid here. Can you help me understand how it works - is it a condition that he stay faithful or this document kicks in? How did you manage to negotiate such an awesome future settlement?
I do have an L that I spoke with back in Feb before Dday when we were really having a bad time and he was threatening to leave. I have some idea on what I could expect out of a divorce settlement but as a SAHM it would be a big life style change for me. I would not be able to replace his income ever and would feel like whatever I got in the settlement would need to be invested for the future. Any advice you can pass on is most welcome.
I have the pics of the first cow; the second cow; they will never have a career or even a job; they gave up woman power and now there are scores of women making sure they never can move forward.
Let me know if I can help in this. Dillards has been particularly helpful for getting women with prostitution charges jobs - well. I shopped at Dillards - they can give up thousands - and I have found thousands of women - who will never shop again if they have to face their husband's whore. I don't care. Screw them and the guys they plannned to ride forward. And Nordstrom's is better anyway.
what I meant to say is that Dillards is giving people who have had prostitution charges the chance for "second-chance" jobs, but I don't feel that I should ever have to shop in a place where my husband's former whore works. So - whores don't get second chances. They spread disease and ruin families; not that the man doesn't own his own crap, but why should I face it over the Clinique counter?
Empty, you are my hero. I too was angry, more yelling then destruction. When WH would complain about it, I would remind him that at least I did not go Tiger Woods and golf club his car. I must admitt I fantasized about it. You were able to get to where he was remorseful and have him right by you.
Confused, I'm afraid I'm also calling my L and going to file.
MC has not been going well. I took money out, he retaliated by pulling his check, I told him honesty and check were condition for MC. He put check back, but that was 2 wks ago.
Today he told me he was tired of MC and it wasn't getting anywhere. He gets it that he was the one who did wrong and the bad guy but he felt that he is seeing IC, going to MC and has stayed out of the house but I'm still angry and he feels that I would never forgive him. He also stated that he is tired of living at his mothers and we can't afford three houses, our vacation home, our home and if he gets one, his apartment. He wants to move forward and move back home, at least three to five nights a week. He was nasty, he interrupted the MC three times and basically gave me three ultimatums.
1) We can try gradually spending more time together and he can start to move back.
2)He can get an apartment but he will pull his check out of our account because if we have two households to support, we need two checking accounts.
3) We both go to our Ls and get D.
In my mind I'm thinking, door number three please.
I propose a 4th option, I'm not ready for forced cohabitation and propose that he get an apartment and we keep our finances together and transparent. Since he also had previous financial infidelity the finances being transparent is essential to help build back trust.
MC tries to assist and says she thinks we want the same things but Eyes wants to move slower and build trust. While you WH want to spend more time with Eyes maybe you could voice this in a more gentle way without an ultimatum and try to move back when eyes is ready.
WH interrupts MC and says the house is mine and you know I can move back in whenever I want and don't need eyes permission.
Wow! I'm just taking it all in. I wish I had come to SA forum sooner. Maybe I would have had a CSAT who could have guided us better. Or maybe we would be in the same boat.
To tell you the truth, since reading about SA you women and some men are awsome. You have signed up for gut wrenching work. You are selfless and to I am in aw. I have been wondering if i could cut it. I dont know. I have been praying for a sign. I want to save my M. I want to get to the root and not be so hurt and angry. I want to heal and have him heal but honestly this is scarry. I know he has issues since he has escalated from porn, masterbation no sex or bad sex with me for years before OW. I realize I was in a FOG. Im not now. I never will be again.
I have been praying that God show me a sign, which path to take. Make me brave enough to know which shitty side of the fence I am meant to jump to. I know i am ready now to face D. I pray that I can do hard SA work if WH can recognize this. Im at the point where im ready to jump. I know I won't be pushed. I'm jumping.
Well last night DS had a helmit issue after football and called his Dad. Dad came over and hung out with kids. I went to bed. When i woke up WH had stayed on the couch. When he went to get a shower i checked his phone. There is now another OW. again someone who works for him. She is older and M. She is now his confidant, stroking his ego. I notice he calls her after and before all our MCs and he called her before and after tonight. That was first sign. Then the nasty ultimatum was the second
As you can see, I never had the chance to bring up SA. I will now be one who can share what it is like to D an SA. I hope my postings will help some who are going that route and I hope those here continue to provide me with tips and pointers for how you are dealing with your SA. I wish you all strength and wisdom for which ever side of the fence you end up on.
I am so angry now, I want to hit him - he is the most vile human ever. Says he loves me - no he doesn't
He is such am arsehole. I called 2 d lawyers, one called back and said she is a mediator and would only see us together. The other didn't call back
So want to know how sick I am. Part of me thinks I should tell him amicably I want a divorce and keep it friendly. I am so angry but I'm really hoping this will wake him up. I think an aggressive mood will kill any chance of r. At the same time, I don't think I can trust him and if I don't file first then he can hide assets.
Although I'm angry I still want to be with him. Maybe I should just check into a loony bin.
What did I do to make him hate me. I think of the way he treated, why did I put up with it. I guess I believed I was causing the treatment.
I also think I'm dealing with cognitive dissonance. I fought so long to make him stay with me and want me that I can't believe I am choosing to voluntarily let him go.
Sorry, il shut up now
confused - I am so sorry. Do you have a job? Kids? IC, IC, IC - they don't call it a rollercoaster for nothin'! It is normal to hate them but to still want to stay together. Continue IC and getting yourself strong and healthy so you will be ok no matter what happens. You are NOT crazy. Be smart: call some more D lawyers, get your financial ducks in a row and file first so that the money restraining orders are in effect. Don't tell him that you are filing so he doesn't get tipped off so he can hide money.
As for your questions, you could D now or give him the conditions for you to stay in the M - it's your call. I too thought my SAWH would balk at seeing a CSAT, but when threatened with D, he didn't.
The asking to see his phone in front of MC is a good idea, but I don't know how it would go down.
I like your list of conditions/boundaries. I would add NC letter to the OW/she gets transferred so that he has NC with her.
Also, MC is useless if he is still actively cheating. You need to find out if he is willing to commit to the M and SA recovery first, then he needs to get into therapy with a CSAT, THEN you can resume MC after he has been in IC for a while. It is so hard. I did MC without him doing IC and it was a complete waste of time and money. He was an asshole during MC sessions and it just left me more frustrated.
Phoenix - so sorry you are here. Yes, I can relate to your story: frustrating and unsatisfying sex, blaming it on me (trust me, your weight is not the issue!)
To answer your question, yes, SAs are just like other addicts where they have to hit rock bottom before they realize they need help. Your H seems to have the unmanageability aspect of the addiction with him committing to your M, but then acting out again - he can't control it. Also, the gaslighting himself is common in SAs - they have a distorted view of reality that they actually believe so they can continue with the addiction.
I feel like your story otherwise relates. I don't feel old. I feel like I can still grasp a brand new life. This is new. Up until a month ago I have been mourning my life with WS and I still do but now I can mourn and begin to move on. Similar to my grieving process years before. As my IC has said " honey that was the dead in the ground. This is the walking dead and they are much harder to deal with. "
Since he also had previous financial infidelity the finances being transparent is essential to help build back trust.
This jumped out at me as a huge red flag. Gather as much information as you can before you file. In my case, the previous financial infidelity was pretty severe, but once I filed, things got really bad. Information slammed shut and lies started.
Divorcing an SA is not easy. Mine was personality disordered, as well, in my opinion. He was powerful and manipulative in the divorce proceedings. I had an aggressive attorney as a defensive move. It turned out that was a necessity.
One trauma therapist told me that he'd seen people get plenty "twisted up inside" due to addiction, so maybe my X wasn't truly a sociopath. So maybe your divorce path will be similar to mine? If so, it's hard, and you have to hunker down and get through it, but you can get through it. When you do, bliss and serenity are on the other side.
One thing a CSAT told me that helped me in understanding what happened to our marriage was that the sex addiction is like heroin to them. Nothing else matters but that next fix. They can't care about people; they have to have that fix to stop the pain they are in.
edited to correct grammar
[This message edited by Compartmented at 9:43 AM, August 15th (Thursday)]
Right now my job is our only source of steady income which also provides access to group health insurance. The pay is insulting but, I digress. H contributes to our expenses as his income becomes available. If we are blessed enough to be low bidders on the very few projects which have been let out for bid the last 3 years, we will receive payment at the end of the job and he deposits money into our joint account to help with the bills. Sometimes this process takes months. The problem is that the nature of the beast of construction work tends to be feast or famine. For the last 3 years you could say we've been starving in that respect. The projects have been few and far between so at best, things are limping along at a rather uncomfortable and unpredictable pace.
I'm a planner so this method of trying to meet our financial demands just serves to heighten my anxiety. Will we have enough money to make the house note this month? Maybe, maybe not. I can't stand it. When we talked last night, I once again suggested that he declare bankruptcy for the business as there is no possible way to repay the level of debt that is owed on it. Not the way I prefer to deal with my obligations but, the choices are pretty limited. I then gently suggested that he start visiting some of the larger construction companies here in the area and see what options for employment he could find.
H's demeanor shifted to one of flabbergasted defensiveness. He said he knows that I have no faith in his abilities or trust that he can resurrect this business. I simply told him he has had a little over 3 years to show me that and what he did was spend every hour of every day during that time chasing down potential sex partners & planning the next encounter. I do believe he is past that now and really wants to prove to me and desperately needs to prove to himself that he can do this but, I'm skeptical that it's even possible at this point and I hate to see him set himself for another failure.
I have so much resentment about those 3 years. I was working a job I hated with a passion. Right after getting that job my daughter was put on bed rest at 27 weeks with a two year old to care for. Her first child was born at 29 weeks so it was strict bed rest. Thankfully my older daughter who is a sahm and lives 45 min. away from her sister took over and they got through. But, I couldn't be there. I couldn't support her or help her in any way. Then, my dad had a hip replacement at age 82 and had a difficult recovery. I watched as friends from church took turns helping out as best they could. Most of them were close to his age. Again, I could do nothing because my job was the only income we had and all the while, without a clue, H was spending literally hours scouting prospects then paying them $100 a pop to soothe his anxiety due to his failing business. The female employee (who isn't an employee anymore) continues to be a burr in my saddle since he has done absolutely nothing to change anything in regards to that relationship.
So, he suggested this divorce settlement. I don't feel ready to divorce so I thought it more prudent to try a temporary separation in an effort for us to have room to work on ourselves without the distraction of trying to maintain the normal routine of married life which I firmly believe is impossible for me.
He is flipping out. He is convinced that this is as good as saying we are going to divorce. But...wasn't that his suggestion to begin with? My head spins with this nonsense. He made an appointment with our MC for this afternoon and asked if I would go & see what advice he could offer before this plan of separation is put into action. I am convinced that this would be a good thing not only for me but for him as well even tho he can only see the negatives right now.
So much for believing that I was on my way to clearer thinking! This I know, I will find my peace one day. I have a new found confidence that I have gained from all of you here. A mistake is only a mistake if you don't learn something from it right?
Will update this breaking story tonight. Stay tuned!
Today is the day I will trust my instincts and make an informed decision to move myself to a better place. I know myself well enough to know in a couple of days doubts will creep in so please just keep telling me...it's gonna be ok outta!
[This message edited by outtanowhere at 11:00 AM, August 15th (Thursday)]
Compartment, I have a good L and I did copy all finances and tax returns on a F'D to L. I keep in contact with both L and my IC before I make any moves.
Outta, I am so sorry your H is turning the tables on you.
Today I get a text from WH that he wants to discuss Finances and bills. i I ask if he is willing to consider discussion of 4th option where we keep our checks in our joint account and work on trust and figure out how we can together secure his Seperate living arrangements? He says yes.
Now remember he said 2wks ago he would keep chk in joint acct. then he says he needs to move out of his mothers and will move it. Now he will consider another option. WTF.
My IC said to lay out my terms as 4th option. If we can agree, then consider giving permission to our ICs to talk to MC in order for her to assist us better with moving forward. She also suggested that we each give permission for our ICs to talk with each others spouse for the same reasons. She suggested I bring up my concerns with SA to his MC and get her thoughts.
I told her I'm ready for D but could be willing to try this if he keeps his chk in. I would need to run this by my L as far as what a financial conversation would look like.
Ughhhhh so many twists. I am realizing that the man I knew is gone and this man is not stable. My IC said that although we can guess what is wrong withWH, we can't be sure at this stage. She suggested that I may be having problems letting go or committing to L when he is still a mystery.
My L agrees that if he is willing to discuss 4th option I should go hear it and discuss it. Then tell him I will consider it and get back to him. My L also advises not to see him without MC or his IC if he is more comfortable with that. Not to see him alone where he can try to bully. I sent a text with this suggestion hours ago and have not heard back.
[This message edited by eyesrnowopen at 3:37 PM, August 15th (Thursday)]
I have to admit I'm a little confused by your observation of my situation. Please help me understand what you meant by my H turning the tables.