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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 32
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

everything you described to allgood about what her "good man" of a ws would do to win her back

Actually - what Tryn described would mean something to me because it would be soooo different than my X's normal behavior it would show me he is actively thinking of me and what I need to get past this. More importantly, he would not be just thinking of himself!

But - I agree, Miracle - I would also need to hear from him that he thinks differently and that he has done the soul searching.

This is all an exercise in semantics tho as he is still running the same reel over and over again - just stating his conclusions & stating he doesnt know how to do it.

Been there, done that & it's exhausting. He has to get it together on his own.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

would be soooo different than my X's normal behavior it would show me he is actively thinking of me

This is all an exercise in semantics tho as he is still running the same reel over and over again - just stating his conclusions & stating he doesnt know how to do it.

Been there, done that & it's exhausting. He has to get it together on his own.


first: yes it would be different behavior....but i disagree that he would be thinking of you....how do i come to this conclusion..simple..pfm did all that and all of that was never in his nature....and he did it all in a way to kiss ass to make amends....not because he wanted to make these permament changes but lots of bandaid....and i believe he thought that because all of this was so different i would believe HE was different...but he wasnt different...he was just kissin ass to get what HE WANTS....which is sometimes human nature.....or the kid thing to do....mom is mad, let me behave and do extra shit to make her happy and then i wont be in trouble anymore kind of thing...

on the second front:...when they say they "dont how ".....OMG....that one makes me so mad.....we have given them a list of things to do....spoon fed them the HOW.....and stil they don't know how...because it needs to be from within and it needs to be an HONEST EFFORT.....anything less will fail...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember once in MC we had a discussion about the television. I had the TV on in our bedroom with a loud program....the kind of program my WW does not want on before she goes to sleep.

Well, my W came in the room and went into the bathroom...and did not come out for a LONG while, not until I don't declared to her that I wanted to go to sleep, that I was waiting for her, and that I was wondering what she was doing. Well, she was just sitting in the bathroom in silence, 'waiting' for me to turn off the TV. I was supposed to 'know'...

My MC asked her why she didn't just tell me what she wanted...my WW said it wouldn't be the same if she had to tell me what she needed...that my actions wouldn't mean the same thing if I did them in a response to a stated need. I had to have have done something 'on my own' for it to be 'real'.

My MC took my WW to the woodshed.

iwam, what is it that your WH has lied about in recent times? I found your post cynical. I don't know your story, but I get the sense that the standard that you have set for your H for R is to be a different human being. You are not going to forgive pfm (I can understand why) so why all the rationalizations?

*****

had my 20th anniv on Wed. Plowed through it.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:44 PM, October 5th (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack-

why she didn't just tell me what she wanted

I have been guilty of this in the past & it's something I'm more aware of post DDay. However, in my case & IWAM's, what we want has been spelled out ad nauseum and it really can reach a point where they should know.

As far as IWAM - goes - I can tell you that her expectations were very reasonable.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear ya agng, but the post just seemed to me a case of pivoting from questioning actions to questioning motives as the actions made sense...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:58 PM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mc: did you know that the show you were watching WAS a show she would prefer not to watch??

and i am split on this....i can understand why she felt the way she felt had she expressed these wishes to you in the past...

however, if she never expressed these wishes then i would say that she was being unreasonable, you are not a mind reader...

as far as me expecting pfm to be a different person....no, just an honest one....i wanted him to be a man of integrity, a man who stands up for his family and a man who once knows what my needs are, meet them as i had met his. i wanted a partnership....

i needed and required him to be a man who would say what he meant, and meant what he said....required total honesty....i gave him my requirements...he said over and over again that he would meet them and would not throw the opportunity away....more words ...and that is all he ever was...words...no actions...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwantamiracle…

Total honesty.. Lying.. Amazing that if you grow up a liar, lying just becomes part of you. I could have listed far more things but I could add that to the list.. EVERY piece of the puzzle is important.. Just one piece missing could be the key..

One thing in my therapist says is you behave in ways..Exaclty as MC describes it.. “ I had to have done something 'on my own' for it to be 'real'.”

So he points out these “type” things we men must do on our own to be most attractive. He will say MC wife is a closed down woman.. she is unable to be open with you MC..

Therefore you must work on yourself so she will then become open.. Not easy and it take months and months. There were things you said and did that facilitated your wife being a closed woman. Men who know how to open a woman is the key... I am just now finding my W to be more and more open.. It is a wonderful thing. It was because I was behaving in ways that she feared.


Of course, we need WS to do the work. The problem is.. You have no control over what a BS will do or not do.

This is why my therapist always says.. Look at yourself first... Stop blaming others.. Take a value of personal responsibility... You fix this about you, you will be at great peace. Be attractive and your good will come..

I just realized some manipulative technics he suggest... and when I called him out on them.. he says.. When using for the GOOD.. then it is good. When used for bad.. it is bad... and you had better be aware when you are bad.


everything you described to allgood about what her "good man" of a ws would do to win her back is total bullshit

Bullshit? Not from what I have seen with many men in my therapist circle.
Some committed infidelity. They come devastated over their behaviors that closed down their wives. Crying and full of anger.. They open up to us men and tell their story of idiocy… the why they did it.. etc.. Many of the cheating "themes" are very common in these men. Amazingly.

Now I have seen a few men turn it around… and how they behave and what they say is that important. Some are very skilled… patient.. smart.. and do “get it”. Those are the ones who have the ability to win back their wives. But for some men.. It just cannot be done no matter how they behave... NOTHING they can do can turn it for them no matter how well they behave and change.
Some, when we ask them questions about a certain behavior. We can catch them in a lie or not behaving the way they should. So many of these men are just, not patient… they let their emotions get the best of them.
And then we have the “Already know it” men.. Because let’s face it.. most of this stuff is just common sense… common sense that we know but don’t do… lol..
There is something very common in the men that fail in the therapist group.. Someone might have FORCED them to be in this therapy. When they are forced, they are not making the choice and it never works. The men who Want to change.. they have the most success.

My point.. Asking, forcing, your man to get help, never works. My asking my W to go never worked.. she went but it never worked.
Iwant.. I suppose your man is just not able to be attractive. It happens.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:06 AM, October 6th (Sunday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My MC asked her why she didn't just tell me what she wanted...my WW said it wouldn't be the same if she had to tell me what she needed...that my actions wouldn't mean the same thing if I did them in a response to a stated need. I had to have have done something 'on my own' for it to be 'real'.

I've heard something of the same from NPD. I do not agree with it, though.

Many of us have read the 5 Love Languages. If for example, a man's love language is giving of gifts, but the wife's is quality time, she may not feel loved if he gives her gifts all the time, but doesn't sit down with her to have quality time. He loves her, he wants to please her. If she tells him that it would make her feel more loved if he spent more time with her and he complies, does that mean it's not real?

If a W keeps giving her H ties for his birthday and he would rather have something else, is it wrong for him to kindly let her know? She wants to please him, she is not a mind reader.

Jack, I'm sure you did not have that program on to bother your W. She felt hurt because you "should have remembered", but communication here is the key. Instead she sat and simmered on it. It is real if she reminded you that she doesn't like that kind of program and then you turn it off.

xWH#1 was not an emotionally demonstrative person and very short on praise. But he took good care of our sons and I trusted him watching them then even myself. He was quite strict and I used to be upset that he didn't balance that with more loving gestures or praise.

Fast forward to when I had married current WH and DS3 was 8 months old. My mother, DS1 (21 at the time), DS2 (18 at the time), DS3 (7months) and I were sitting around the living room. DS1 is playing with the baby, hugging, kissing, doing anything at all to make him laugh. (He was and is the "camp counsellor" with the kids :) ). DS1 stopped for a moment to talk with my mother and the baby was crawling around. DS2 was watching him quietly like a mother bear. Anytime the baby was about to fall, DS2 quietly caught him, the baby crawls to the electic outlets, DS2 quietly picks him up and puts him in safety. DS2 didn't take his eyes off him for one minute.

Suddenly I saw the two different kinds of love and silently apologized to xH#1 in my head. DS2 acted exactly the way xH#1 did. He protected and cared. It was his way of showing love. He was ALWAYS like that. It didn't mean he loved them less than I did. DS1 was affectionate and outgoing and that was his way of showing love.

Unfortunately, for years DS1 didn't feel his father loved him, but finally realized it when DS1 was in an almost fatal accident at work. xWH#1 was always at the hospital and stood at the hospital room door like a body guard so he could get some sleep.

What we have to decide is that we can let our WS know what makes us feel loved. If they cannot do it for whatever reason, we have to decide can we live with that. Can we live with the knowledge that they love us, but not the way we want to be loved, and accept it, or we can't.

The one thing, the major thing I NEED is to feel "safe". I used to think it was to feel secure, but "safe" is a better word.

We were betrayed. I need to feel safe that I won't be betrayed again.

It's different if one spouse is very unhappy and tells the other and they try to work it and then they D. That is not betrayal. That is sad, but it happens.

I want to feel safe. I want to feel that I'm not being lied to, or will be betrayed. I want to trust.

I believe Miracle is saying that because pfm is still lying about everything, the littlest things, she can't feel safe.

Allgood, I'm so sorry, but I think that is the problem there too even though your xWH wants to R. Unless he changes and makes you feel safe, R cannot happen.

We cannot control another's actions. Even if we try to be the best person we can be and try to do everything "right" we cannot prevent our WS from cheating unless they change that within themselves.

I was unhappy in my M, but I didn't cheat.

I know that maybe we tried to do something about it, and it didn't work and perhaps we gave up trying in the past.

Betrayal runs very, very deep.

There is something to be said about honor and integrity.


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DecimatedHeart - where are you?!?

Hope you are doing well.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My MC took my WW to the woodshed.

My story was one about how my wife's tendency during our M (and can be difficult to unwind) is to be unnecessarily passive aggressive and prone to magical thinking. My MC called her out on it.

In my story, I was watching a show in the bedroom by myself - and one that my WW would not like and does not want to watch before bed. It is my room and my TV as well as hers. Rather than going into the bathroom, getting ready, then calling out to me that she is ready for bed and that she would like the TV turned off...she sat and stewed. A conscious choice to think negatively about your spouse.

The issue about asking for needs to be met in order for them to be met is important: my MC emphasized to say what you mean, mean what you say, and ask for what you want.

My wife suggested that if I didn't do something unless she asked for it, that it wasn't 'meaningful' in like a 'romantic' way - if I were her 'true' partner than I should just 'know' without having to ask. I think a lot of women look at things that way as a result of a fear of asking/demanding/confrontation/conflict that men don't have.

So, I do not agree with trynhard here that I should be jumping through hoops to be attractive so the WW does not have to state a need or want. At some point, her feeling safe to say something comes from within her, getting past severe FOO issues. I have provided a safe environment. I am attractive if I listen to what she wants and execute the task.

***

iwam & friends - obviously, I am not privy to pfs's continued aversion to the truth subsequent to disclosures of his As. So my remarks were based on the idea that he has been honest about stuff now that his A behavior is now out in the open and in the past.

***

about 'getting over it' and 'moving on': my IC told me at six months post-d-day that if I were still upset about/traumatized by/dwelling on the LTA that there was something emotionally unhealthy about me. That I needed significant emotional work. Maybe a sales pitch or a long term therapy relationship, but I think that the statement is TRUE.

By offering R, I am implicitly making a commitment to 'moving on' where the A is no longer a part of the everyday existence of the M nor my psyche. My happiness is my responsibility. It is MY job to prevent the A from interfering with my M happiness. With a clearer head you can better see what you want, what you have, and what you can do about the difference if any between those two.

***

so allgood,

and what I need to get past this

^^^why do you need anything from your H to get past whatever you need to get past? You don't. You should be 'moving on' and all that's left is whether that man is someone you want to go with you to where you are going.

***

side note - has anyone watched the TV series "American Horror Story"?

***

Happy Monday! Jack

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 12:43 PM, October 7th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack - I don't currently need anything from my X to move past this. I'm about as healed as I expect to be from this. (I seriously disagree with your MC's opinion that there's something wrong/emotionally unhealthy for someone to take more than 6 months to recover from a LTA.)

My comments about what I WOULD need, were more theoretical in nature. There is nothing I currently need from my X that would impact my emotional health.

The topic of what I would need, etc. is only relevant to my thoughts because my X is looking to R, and as Tryn says, people can change, and wouldn't that be a wonderful thing for my kids. But, my X is just nowhere near the target, so again, just a theoretical conversation.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my IC told me at six months post-d-day that if I were still upset about/traumatized by/dwelling on the LTA that there was something emotionally unhealthy about me.

Yes, if at d-day you learned all there was to learn about the A, if your WS became a poster child for remorse and reconciliation, or if you got an instant D. This was not my reality. I saw potential for R, and then got TT for 6+ months and a return to pre-dday behaviors culminating in my moving out. Then she started on IC in earnest to deal with her shit. About 6 months after that I started posting how I was mostly past the A-crap. So, 6-months after the last TT or wayward behavior, sure, I would accept that. Six months after dday, no way.

ETA: I am not referrign to 6 months to recover as allgood put it, rather by 6-months after the last TT and waywardness I no longer felt actively upset or traumatized by her A's.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:41 PM, October 7th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS, I think my IC was looking at 6 months past the 'trauma' in her statement (I used d-day in my post for shorthand) which would be like you say.

I am ok regarding myself as being emotionally unhealthy. I also think my IC was challenging me. I am a lot better now. The trauma of the A exposed unresolved issues of mine. Those unresolved issues played into my M.

This was from one of my early posts:

"Those events and people in our lives who trigger our unresolved issues could be regarded as good news. We don't have to go hunting for anything. We don't need to try to create situations in which we reach our limit. They occur all by themselves..." (from Pema Chodron, When Things Fall Apart).

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 2:18 PM, October 7th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_Jack, I have that book by Chodron. Many of her writings were helpful to me. I especially liked her thought that the Universe causes us pain where we need to do additional work on ourselves. I read that as physically or emotionally.

I was "fortunate" (?) going into dday. About 3 years prior I suspected an A, but FWW and a well-meaning friend convinced me it was in my head. While FWW went on to her last OM and a 2+ year A, I was in IC working on the anxiety I had developed, and a long list of complaints from FWW about how "broken" I was. I spent about 6 months going every other week and it really did wonders for me.

I am watching FWW struggle. She used the attention from OM (not just AP OM) to feel good about herself. She also relied on her blame-shifting and projecting (at me and others) to feel better about herself. She has learned to set boundaries, blame-shifts less, and does not look for attention from OM, but she has not found a resilient replacement. Without that attention, she is stuck with her depression and blaming herself. I am finding myself, metaphorically, putting on my lifejacket so that she does not pull me down with her in her depressed ruminations.

Speaking of Pema Chodron, anyone hear anything from m334455?


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm here! Sorry I haven't been on, I've honestly been too damn depressed and feel like a broken f'n record. WH came home that night, made no comment about it at all besides he only slept 3 hours, and has since gone back to his 'cover your ears, close your eyes and sing la-la-la as loud as you can' philosophy. In other words, he pretended like the whole conversation never took place. Big surprise, huh?

I woke him up crying over the weekend and he held me tight for a while, but didn't say a word.

I am so exhausted. Anniversary is this weekend. What do I do?

In other news, I may be getting promotion at work. Full time and two pay grades higher. Hopefully I can handle it physically. I have been having heart issues again, but things being what they are, I didn't feel I could say no.

Regarding the other conversation about telling your partner what you want. I am torn. Some things are basic to anyone with compassion and common sense, and I kind of feel like it doesn't mean as much if I have to give you the cliff notes, kwim? I get explaining things they may not realize, but you shouldn't have to tell people who are supposed to love you that you want treated with honesty, kindness, and affection.


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I kind of feel like it doesn't mean as much if I have to give you the cliff notes, kwim?

I see this a bit like being frustrated when someone does or does not do something, saying it is just common sense. The thing is that common sense for you may be foreign to me.

but you shouldn't have to tell people who are supposed to love you that you want treated with honesty, kindness, and affection.

Again, different strokes for different folks. It took reading through the Love Languages for FWW and I to understand the fine details of kindness and affection for each other. We had, for 20 years, speaking love and affection to each other in the wrong languages. There is no such thing as over explaining.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep, what ATS said.

It's not about common sense, basic kindness, etc....it is about the overall relationship dynamic in a stress filled world of bills to pay, kids to drive, spreadsheets to look at. You know, the stuff that is kryptonite for the rainbow-farting unicorns soaring to joy.

It is easy to let your relationship interaction get gobbled up by passive aggressive thinking. It is easy to react negatively to what you see as negative. What happens is a consistent tearing down of your spouse in your imagination and can become habit forming.

Harboring false expectations for others, for yourself, is an enabler of disappointment, destruction.

Well, not making sense tonight...

Jack

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:20 PM, October 7th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get explaining things they may not realize, but you shouldn't have to tell people who are supposed to love you that you want treated with honesty, kindness, and affection.

Ah, this is exactly the difference! The difference between the different love languages and someone actually not treating you well.

I feel it's real if you have to remind your spouse who may have a different love language than yours what would make you happier: some would love to get flowers, while others would prefer help around the house, or spending time together.

I do agree with you, DH, that we shouldn't have to remind our S that we should be respected and treated kindly and honestly. That should be understood between any two people, whether they are friends or family.

Congratulations on the promotion!!! That is wonderful news. It is good to feel that someone realizes your worth.

Jack: about your IC's comment about getting over it and moving on in 6 months? That is not possible with a LTA. It is commonly said on SI that it can take anywhere from 4-5 years to recover.
The following is from a thread is General posted by Skye "Interesting Article in the Paper Today". (sorry don't know how to give the address) It is quite interesting and is helpful in understanding why it takes so long to process things in a LTA, and of course when TT, gaslighting etc is going on:

A very interesting op ed piece in the “New York Times” today about betrayal. Not sure it tells us lots more than we already know, but in a very easy way for the WS and BS to understand.
The author is a psychiatrist and the betrayal isn't necessarily infidelity. Also, interesting, he feels the WS has an easier time recovering. (Which I certainly have seen from my years on SI.)
Discoveries of such secrets typically bring on tumultuous crises. Ironically, however, in my clinical experience, it is often the person who lied or cheated who has the easier time. People who transgressed might feel self-loathing, regret or shame. But they have the possibility of change going forward, and their sense of their own narrative, problematic though it may be, is intact. They knew all along what they were doing and made their own decisions. They may have made bad choices, but at least those were their own and under their control. Now they can make new, better choices.
And to an astonishing extent, the social blowback for such miscreants is often transient and relatively minor. They can change! Our culture, in fact, wholeheartedly supports such “new beginnings” — even celebrates them. It has a soft spot for the prodigal sons and daughters who set about repairing their ways, for tales of people starting over: reformed addicts, unfaithful spouses who rededicate themselves to family, convicted felons who find redemption in religion. Talk shows thrive on these tales. Perhaps it’s part of our powerful national belief in self-help and self-creation. It’s never too late to start anew.
But for the people who have been lied to, something more pervasive and disturbing occurs. They castigate themselves about why they didn’t suspect what was going on. The emotions they feel, while seemingly more benign than those of the perpetrator, may in the long run be more corrosive: humiliation, embarrassment, a sense of having been naïve or blind, alienation from those who knew the truth all along and, worst of all, bitterness.
Insidiously, the new information disrupts their sense of their own past, undermining the veracity of their personal history. Like a computer file corrupted by a virus, their life narrative has been invaded. Memories are now suspect: what was really going on that day? Why did the spouse suddenly buy a second phone “for work” several years ago? Did a friend know the truth even as they vacationed together? Compulsively going over past events in light of their recently acquired (and unwelcome) knowledge, such patients struggle to integrate the new version of reality. For many people, this discrediting of their experience is hard to accept. It’s as if they are constantly reviewing their past lives on a dual screen: the life they experienced on one side and the new “true” version on the other. But putting a story together about this kind of disjunctive past can be arduous.
.it’s often a painstaking process to reconstruct a coherent personal history piece by piece — one that acknowledges the deception while reaffirming the actual life experience. Yet it’s work that needs to be done. Moving forward in life is hard or even, at times, impossible, without owning a narrative of one’s past. Isak Dinesen has been quoted as saying “all sorrows can be borne if you put them in a story or tell a story about them.” Perhaps robbing someone of his or her story is the greatest betrayal of all.

Great food for thought.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 8:32 PM, October 7th (Monday)]


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, like I posted above, my IC might have been challenging me, cracking the whip, so to speak. It is also possible that my 'story' has been heard lots of times by my IC.

And as to being past the trauma in six months, sure it might not be probable but it is possible.

Honest, you said:

I was unhappy in my M, but I didn't cheat.

I want to ask you what you were doing with your unhappiness? Creating conflict? Seeking out new hobbies? I like to go back to some things tryn has posted and my car thief metaphor from August. What was it about me that accepted what I had? I believe that part of me that was complicit in my own unhappiness is also what is so wounded by the A. So, my IC might have the timeline for recovery exaggerated, but can we say that the LTA has not exposed our own unhealthiness? What are we doing about it?

My comments about communication were in the context of maintaining a healthy M, irrespective of whether there has been infidelity. So, yes as DH and honest say:

we should be respected and treated kindly and honestly

Haven't we learned from our time here reading from our friendly WS community, that some WSs do horrible and cruel things that are not kind and honest when things are in the shitter?

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:54 PM, October 7th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great article indeed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/great-betrayals.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
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