oh hon...it really sucks a great big moose egg.....
7 years your post was totally awesomeness!!!!
i found myself screaming at the screen again, only this time i kept screaming yes, yes, yes...thats it, yes
I did it. I sat down and laid out the major red flags to him, especially the electronics. I said I don't feel safe that I can trust him. He said he doesn't feel safe I won't find something. I offered to let him sweep them first, and not to hold anything old against him. He said no. I also talked to him about the way I feel he villainizes me and that I feel he does it to blameshift and alleviate his own guilt.
I told him that if he is committed to fixing this marriage, we can't keep rugsweeping. If he's not, then we are just wasting time. I said our anniversary is in 2 weeks and I don't want to spend another anniversary curled up in a ball crying, and I don't want him to have to spend another anniversary lying to me.
He didn't say much, it was very short and quiet. He said he wanted to stay downstairs for a while and think, then ended up sleeping on the couch.
So hopefully tonight, one way or another, I will have my answer. I know I can't keep doing this, accepting crumbs and feeling like I am the only one trying to fix this. I am a wreck right now, honestly, this odd combination of anxious and resigned. But I am proud of myself for having the courage to say it, even if it ends my marriage. God, I need a hug.
All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)
I've even processed the issues of my lack of confidence, diminished self-esteem, his missing her and withdrawal from their relationship.
I've accepted almost all these things but I'm really struggling with the final piece of the puzzle. My WH is a workaholic. I paid my dues for years waiting for life to ease up so that we could spend time together. Only for him to have spent nearly three years of time with her. I feel so robbed of what should have been MY time for late mornings and lazy afternoons. MY time for trips and late nights.
My love language is quality time, and it is quickly eroding my soul that he freely gave to her what I was desperate for. Now work has him traveling all the time. That ease of the past three years is gone, and she got it all. As much as I want our marriage to survive, I don't know that I can work through this.
Don't let this drag on, because it will eat at your soul. Let him know that you need an answer now. He shouldn't have to think about whether or not he wants to R.
I'm so sorry. Keep posting. We're here for you.
PA- I am so with you on your post. Trying to accept, learn, and heal. I am also a Quality Time girl. I was suffering, not feeling loved, because he was spending so much time building his "business". Thought I was sacrificing for the common goal. God, was I stupid. How to forgive him for that as well as myself? IDK.
Just in case I haven't said this already : Infidelity sucks.
StillStanding: Yes, sacrificing for the business! My WH would be complaining how badly the business was going, etc and then I would try my best to cut corners, save money, go without only to find that he spent all that money on the OW! Boils my blood.
My WH is very committed to his career -- it is not too much to ask your WH to make a major life change by changing jobs to show the extent of his committment to the M. Frankly, R would have been nearly impossible had my WH not quit his job.
Your WH needs to show you he puts his M first.
Please brace yourself for hearing what you do not want to hear from him. AND even if he agrees to do what you want, and this is just me, but I would just be very put off by how little you have asked of him and how he still was reluctant to agree to it. Just doesn't sit well with me.
Really reminds me of my X quite a bit. A lot of things you said, I said - trying to make it as easy as possible for them to say the right thing & just get on track. And yet they still cant bring the same level of effort that we bring in our weakened state...
StillStanding: it's hard. We can all look back, in varying degrees, to time and opportunities lost as they threw their time and money away on an affair. My X and I have been separated for 2 years & he's wanted to get back together for awhile now, but currently over the past few weeks making a harder push for R and all in the same breath he tells me how he's going to have to work more overtime to afford all his bills.... Smh... just nuts.
I hope H comes through for you.
Don't let this drag on, because it will eat at your soul. Let him know that you need an answer now. He shouldn't have to think about whether or not he wants to R.
I have allowed WH to rugsweep for 3years. Little by little the love I had for WH is dying.
While WH is remorseful. I have never gotten answers, closure or any real conversations.
I am done. I am not M just not D.
I will stay until all our joint financial obligations(kids college loans, 3years left)are met, then I am gone. I do not want any contact with him once I go. That is why I want the loans paid in full. This I have just decided in the last few days after my last try at telling WH what I needed. WH is not abusive or mean he is actually kind generous. Just not what I have needed.
Please dont let this drag out "it will eat away at your soul"
[This message edited by danni at 3:59 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]
R'ing ?? yes, no, maybe, I dont know
This is not the end, this is not the beginning
Many people will make the choice to stay in a marriage accepting misery in exchange for financial security or for the emotional health of the kids.
I can tell those who stay for the emotional health of the kids some things I have learned.
Kids are smart. When kids are very young, the can and will see you not loving. They will then learn this from you. They then go on to treat their relationships like they ones they grew up in. I can say.. People in this position can make the choice to love to the best of their ability as to not teach their kids bad behaviors in marriage. It is most difficult. To kiss at every greeting, to hold each other, to share gifts to one another, forgive, etc.. hundreds of loving acts.
Statistics say that kids of D parents are most likely not going to be healthy. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with the fact they are D, but more to do with one or both parents not behaving healthy to begin with. Kids are mostly what the parents teach them. Staying with kids is only good when you are in repair mode.
Your kids are almost adults. They have passed the most influential stages. I am sure during your H secret, he behaved as if he was loving to you and you gave him reciprocity. Your kids likely saw the way you should love in many ways. They will likely be fine. This is not my point.
My point is that if you as a single, man or woman, have the best possible behaviors, your kids will see it no matter if you are single or not.
Financial… l make far more money than my W. We as partners in life live very well and are very secure. That bring a comfort that is about the most important part of our happiness. The money she makes is probably as much comfort to me then the money I make bring my W comfort. My lifestyle would change. I am very content with that. I don’t need all the things we have. On the other hand, I am not so sure my W does not need the things we have. This judgment is based on just me wanting to downsize for our future and the way she reacts.
My point is.. Want less. If you can develop wanting less, you can have a peace. I say this.. You can want to eliminate all debts.. That is a want.
I am here to say to you.. YOU have the ability to work your way as single with your children’s school debts and not sacrifice your own happiness. A choice like yours is one.. I choose to stay in misery.
And that is your choice to make. I choose because of my own fears, to stay in misery.
Let me lift you up.
If you can grasp some courage.. You can make these next few month just what it will be.. Temporary discomfort verse making a choice of 4 years of discomfort.
Being single can be most rewarding. Things you do, task you do, that end up in success will be a HUGE mental reward. Your self-esteem will be reinforced beyond what you think. It might be as simple as.. Hey, I painted this room.. the color I wanted, and I did a great job… it was neat and clean. I did it without some idiot man telling me how he would do it. That feels good!!!
And if you make yourself available, a man is going to pursue you. I don’t need to tell you how you felt when you began the new relationships years ago. You will feel like a million bucks.. NO money can replace this feeling other than maybe hitting the lotto.
The elimination of those daily negative feelings when you react to your man’s behaviors will be gone!
People will try hard to convince you to stay in your misery.. They will scare you with security, no good men other in this world all the good ones are taken blah blah blah.. Fear not I say. Good men are available and you’re staying in misery is denying those good men a good woman.
Just because your man is generous mean nothing. He may be generous in some ways, but your misery speaks for itself. Listen to it. Eliminate it with confidence your future happiness is waiting.. This is about you and nobody else. Make the choice for peace and happiness.. do it knowing only temporary discomfort will only be for a few months.. not years.
I suggest your reconsider your plan.
You have forgetting how to be self-sufficient. Re-learn it.. live it.
You are in step one. You made the choice to leave.
- Now, Keep your decision to yourself
- Go get a separate checking
- Start deciding how you are going to manipulate your weak H into leaving. A weak man will leave. He will likely leave the house.. make sure you can afford it. If not, then you start looking at being self-sufficient.
- Organize your paperwork. Do a credit check.
- Now, set up and visit an attorney.. try to take cash our in the next few weeks in secret or borrow from one close trusted friend for the retainer that will be needed.
- Plan the day you serve the papers.. Perhaps this is the day you pack your stuff for your move. Make sure you are safe.. it will be most emotional.
You can do this..
One you take that leap into the cold water… the shock will go away pretty quickly. Ask 7years.. he can tell you. Ask him to describe the feelings.. He is most healthy and can express this to you. Nell can too.. If I did not chase her away with my bad behaviors. You have a D trusted friend? They can give you support. Don’t be afraid to rely on your close family.. they will support you.
Then expect some temporary pain that will fade each day.
In a short time, your good will come.
My 2 cents..
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:25 AM, October 4th (Friday)]
I agree that parents who are at war with each other may not be doing their children any favors by staying together. However, once separated, the children will continue to observe both parents behaviors while they grieve the loss of their mariage and enter single life.
This may mean they never see either parent in a relationship at all or it could also mean they never see a parent in a relationship that they wish to emulate.
Along with s/d often comes financial stress, a change in standard of living, sometimes a change of the children's home, neighborhood & friends.
Again, I dont disagree with you, but it's a tough call to make - no one wants to see their kids hurt.
I know I am not providing my children with any model for relationships.
X and I are separated, but neither of us is dating anyone else. We co-parent smoothly, for the most part, and the kids' life has for the most part, remain unchanged.
And giving up on a relationship for myself, in my eyes, is a small price to pay to make sure my kids are happy.
So far, this has worked, but as my X's hopes for R are dashed, who knows what he's going to introduce to my kids. And, I fear for that.
So far, this has worked, but as my X's hopes for R are dashed
Perhaps now he is ready to be a real man?
Haven't seen any signs of it.
First let me say my post was in response to DH post about being clear to H about her needs and Honests reply. More to the opinion, that dont let it slide dont let him rug sweep the longer you do the harder it is to resolve the issues. It does eat away at your soul.
First off my WH does have alot of good qualities. I dont have to defend him or who he is. WH has done alot of soul searching himself in IC and reading. Just sharing with me is a problem. Afraid to say the wrong thing, make a mistake, hurt me more. OOPS defending him. Old habits are hard to break!!
"The consequences of his actions?"
Are a W whom no longer thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread. A W who no longer shows him the love and devotion he once got from her. I have become a very closed person.
"Many people will make the choice to stay in a marriage accepting misery in exchange for financial security or for the emotional health of the kids."
Thats the problem it is not Misery. It is nothing. After 20 years of M I would get butterflies when he came home from work or came to my office to see me. Now not so much.
Its not even the As per se. I have actualy made peace(most days). I can see who what and the whys. Just quickly, his business was in the tubes we were losing the home we had built (sold in short sale.) Thousands of dollars in dept. Kids off to college. Add the FOO issues(HUGE FOO ISSUES) and the ego. It was the perfect storm so to speak. I knew we had some financial issue but not to the extent that was our actual reality. No communication. So he excaped.
These women knew nothing they only saw the things he wanted them to see so the refection he saw of himself in their eyes was ALL GOOD.
For me now it is lack of communication! Nothing in that respect has changed. WH himself has changed in his attitute and behavior toward me.
But how long before there is another A still no communication between us and a W that has no passion for him.
Your kids are almost adults. They have passed the most influential stages.
We did have a very loving and happy M when my children were young. I am very proud of the young adults they have become. Funny they have great communication skills!! GO figure!!
Since the As I have been very open and forthcoming about my feelings and where I am in this stage of my life with WH.
As far as the financial aspects. I do not want to change my standard of living. Call me shallow or materialistic whatever but its where I am right now.
As far a preparing I am way ahead.
I have my own checking account and savings.
The house is mine. I bought it while WH and I were seperated. In January I can drop the PMI insurance and my mortgage payment will be more that affordable. I decide everything from flower in the yard to the colors of the walls.
The place in Maine is also mine. In my name only.
I did all this with WHs approval and knowledge it was one of the terms when I agreed to try to R. That our finances would remain seperate. H gives me a weekly check that I do what I want,pay what i want.
I have seen a attorney so all set there.
I am paying extra on all student loans. I have already paid one off.
I have no credit cards or car loans.
So I do have a good plan. The whole insurance fiasco has set me back but I will keep plugging away.
Three Years is the max it should take me.
"And if you make yourself available, a man is going to pursue you."
This just makes me want to vomit!!!!
My IC said the same thing. Why do you want to save this marraige ? Single men would line up at your door. He got the same reaction.
I can never imagine myself wanting to be with anyone again. WH was my one and only, high school sweet hearts. I had my children young. So I have been taking care of others for more than half my life. Solitude and being on my own is much more appealing. I think I want to leave it that way.
Who knows I may feel different everything in a week, a month a year. STILL RIDING THE ROLLERCOASTER MOST DAYS. For now I am staying with the plan.
Thank you for your 2 cents you made alot of good points. Some off. but some good.
[This message edited by danni at 12:03 PM, October 4th (Friday)]
I think having a man in your life can mean simply a boyfriend that u see when u want...
as a H whose W kept a lot of expectations, needs, wants, etc. unspoken, I want to make sure (on behalf of the husbands union) that you have stated very, very specially what you want from your H in terms of action. Magical thinking of "well, he should know if he really knew or loved me". Hints do not qualify. Him taking away your negative feelings does not qualify.
you have probably done this, but I wanted to make sure :-)
Boyfriend in life Seriously that is how I feel.
Very prepared. I will neverfeel as helpless as I did on DDay.
WH controlled everything prior to dday. I can not allow that to happen again.
Husband Union I like that.
stated very, very specially what you want from your H in terms of action
Signed sealed and delivered in a letter.
WH read it and said we would talk. Never happened. What more to do. As I said WH has huge FOO issues.
I have been very honest about everything even telling WH that I cannot stay the M if we cannot change. I feel I have done everything and more to save this M. I am out of ideas and frankly the desire to do more.
Sometimes, Honest will say I am angry with how I write. I can slightly raise my voice to my W and she will say don’t get mad.. When I am not angry.. So I took many of your post as misery.
Too me, misery is when someone is not happy… they are in discomfort. Do you cry? When was the last time you cried? Misery could me feelings of shame or self-pity. Depression. It can come and go on a hourly, daily or weekly.. Seems to me we all have misery at least sometimes. When it lingers… It is time to try something different.
It does not sound like Iwant and Allgood live so much in misery every day. Honest either.. They have managed a peace about their situation. A good thing.
Can I push with written words for you all toward a better peace? We can have it and it is our choice.
Allgood.. Sometimes, you can take a risk and allow someone back. I have no idea the behaviors your H is doing.. perhaps he spends much of his own time not behaving. If that is the case, I get it.
If I was in the shoes of your H.. I would come home right after work. I would never drink unless it was with you. I would bring you simple and stupid gifts to make you laugh. If you took me down the path of my failures.. I would not argue or debate.. or defend. Just say, Honey, I am deeply sorry. I failed not only you but me but I am never again going to be that man, with you, or without you. I would make sure I do all my chores with you never asking. I would slowly glide by you and touch you.. each week more and more and maybe get to the point you will again want to hold my hand. I would never ask you for sex… but if you wanted me.. I would only want you if you deeply wanted that connection of touch. You would not be able to use me for just sex. When the kids are around, friends are around, I would say things.. in the flow of my own words.. to build you up. I would never say, “I love you”.. I will show you. I would make sure I can make you proud by leading something in the community for the good of all people. Anytime you need me, to rely on me, I would do my best to be reliable. I would never flirt with any woman and only focus on you when we are together…I would watch my money wisely and never spend it on any foolishness. I would invite you to join me in some interesting new events, things.. Places… I would place the kids and you in front my job unless I am forced by my work…
I would do all those things for months.. If you still could not forgive.. I would slowly with words.. Stop loving you in parts.. I would force your choice.. You in or out.. Until a final ultimatum.. Get back in this marriage or I will execute your choice. I will hold my head high and forgive myself knowing I did all I could do to change and be a better man.. and I will move on to be single and happy.. and hope love will find me.
Oh well that was good for me.. lol..
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:10 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]
Thank you for taking time to respond.
I am at peace. I can honestly say, however, that I don't feel like I am really LIVING life, though, if that makes sense to anyone. I'm not truly happy. I'm happy enough & I'm not sad, not anxious.
This is fine for me, for now.
WHat you described would be the way for my X to go about winning me back. We do spend a lot of time together and he has the opportunity to do these things, but the truth of the matter is that he has not grown much over the past 2 years.
He wants to R. He recognizes some of the things he did wrong, which evaded his radar during R. Says he understands the limits of what I'm willing to give at the moment. But, as always, communication, especially on an emotional level, is not something he is comfortable with and yet, what I would need to believe that his general statements and promises are sincere. THat he has thought all of this through - his behavior, what he needs to change, knowing he can make the change & knowing he may not get the rewarding relationship he wants for a long time.
So, he has, as you said, tried to push me to a conclusion. It's apparent he's spent the past 2 years waiting for me to change my mind and wants to move on in one direction or the other. And, if I'm not willing to R, then he will start dating and "everything will change", meaning the way things are for the kids - seeing us both every day, etc.
He doesnt say it in an obnoxious, threatening way, and I'm not intimidated by it in the least - I only worry for my children, perhaps unnecessarily....
Anyway, got to go.
Enjoy your weekend all.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:27 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]
i can only speak for me, but what i needed was total honesty....i needed the man to stop lying and i needed the man to accept full ownership of ALL of his actions.....he needed to own his past choices and find out why he made his past choices....now granted that is what ic is supposed to do....but he still made the choice to continue to lie and to continue not to take full accountability for what he had done and continues to do by not being truthful.....
i believe for most of us we need for the ws to do the work...the important work of getting their shit together...their internal shit that led them to the craptastic life they chose....and only then can they take a physic and clean it all out.....and then hopefully begin anew...and if need be get a colostomy to cut out all of the diseased tissue.... .of course they need to take their heads out of their asses first.... ......boy am i venting a shitstorm... ......i can't seem to help myself here....so with that i think i need to sign off....get some air so i can stop smelling the shit....
have a glorious day today...here in Long Island its a beautiful day.....will open the windows and enjoy the fresh air...