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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 32
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi seenow,

That is exactly what I am waiting for! I've written him lots. I get apologies and how he is "working" on himself, but he finally said this weekend that he wants to read and re-read my emails and write a "thoughtful" response. I often write to him because 1) he doesn't live here and I don't want to be "fighting" or discussing when the kids are around and 2) I like having the time to really edit my messages and take the emotionally-charged stuff out and 3) yes, I'm highly conflict-avoidant. (I'm hoping that putting my thoughts and feelings in writing often will help bring me to a point where I am ready and better able to communicate in person without breaking down and being unproductive).

I gave him a bit of the cold-shoulder last night when he visited, not to be passive aggressive, but I just can't protect myself against the hurt right now. He came up to me, patted my shoulder, and said, "I'm sorry I've been so busy these last couple days with work. I'm not ignoring your emails. I'm going to spend some time over the next few days reading them carefully and writing back to you."

The 2 businesses he runs are in the tank right now (really truly awful) due to current US policy on energy. He's had to let 30% of his people go and has remaining working on odd maintenance jobs while they wait for more work to come in. It is majorly stressful and I'm trying to be accommodating and patient. He has a conference call in minutes with the other 3 owners of the business...

This all couldn't have happened at a worse time. I know that's not my fault, it's his, but it just makes it that much harder.


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 20 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, MC/IC/FC,
He officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
PositiveAttitude
♀ Member
Member # 40624
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fighting Back - Thank you so much for finding and posting the "affair down" post.

My WH made OW out to be queen of her own little realm where she ruled all her subjects with immense beauty and grace with an IQ of 300 and tricks in bed that would make a man's head spin.

Then he had to start acknowledging to himself that I was better looking, better built, better in bed, classier, a better mother, etc. etc. etc.

He still holds to the fact that she is faultless however.

"She's a hard worker to provide for her kids" is his latest. No kidding dipwad - so was I when I was a single mother. Working hard is the difference between survival and living life - show me one single mother that ISN'T working(barring the independently wealthy and those living off their CS, alimony, perhaps welfare, but that's a stereotype that I don't particularly care to perpetuate). OMG, infuriates me.

He will NEVER see the faults in her I'm afraid, and I believe it is truly important that he realize she is not perfect for him to knock her off the pedestal he's built for her in his mind.


Posts: 145 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From:
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He still holds to the fact that she is faultless however

O yea - I got this too. She did nothing wrong.

Plus, a whole bunch of other highly complimentary stuff. Apparently faultless.

I really felt I needed her knocked off the pedestal too & spent way too much time comparing myself to OW because of it.

Post-separation, however, he will admit she is a loser for having stayed in a relationship like that for so long.

Thank you Captain Obvious!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
seenow
♀ Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Positive Attitude:

That just hurts to hear. I'm sorry. It's like the OWs are magical until you see their tricks and know they had to use them to entice a married man. They are not better than us!


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13
LTA 5 years, ONS.
married 19 years, together 24 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 211 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, PositiveAttitude. I can totally relate.

My WH made OW out to be queen of her own little realm where she ruled all her subjects with immense beauty and grace with an IQ of 300 and tricks in bed that would make a man's head spin.

This^^^. Oh yes. This. Very hard not to succumb to feelings of inferiority, inadequacy, when faced with this "perfection". I can see she's not perfect. Why can't he?

I so badly want her knocked off her stupid pedestal. I've found though, that if anyone tries to do it, WH just protects that pedestal like a rabid bulldog. Seriously, WTF?

Somehow, I keep hoping that in time, he will finally give that pedestal a little shake on his own... or perhaps just inadvertantly bump into it and watch it fall... Is this a fantasy on my part?

Am I foolishly trying to climb on my own pedestal and hoping he's notice? Good Lord. I am carried away with analogies today...


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 20 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, MC/IC/FC,
He officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He still holds to the fact that she is faultless however

This of course could mean many things - all depending on the particular situation.

We have no idea as to what our WSs truly said to their APs. You have read here at SI many of the kinds of lies told. On one level I do think the OM/OW is faultless - they promised nothing to you. They did not break YOUR vows. The only kind of fault and flaws I was interested in having my WW see in her OM was in relation to her seeing who him for who really was, i.e. ending the fantasy.

Hell, there are some cheaters that tell their APs that they are single, or separated, or haven't had sex in 10 years, or are abuse victims, etc., all lies to get what they want. So I would say that yes there are some APs who are faultless, and then there are some that a evil predators, and all the shades in between.

I want to respond to the monkey-sex desire on the part of one of the WHs, will have to do that later. Time constrained today a bit for now.

Happy Wednesday all!!

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 1:19 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have read here at SI many of the kinds of lies told. On one level I do think the OM/OW is faultless - they promised nothing to you. They did not break YOUR vows. The only kind of fault and flaws I was interested in having my WW see in her OM was in relation to her seeing who him for who really was, i.e. ending the fantasy.

MC Jack - you are right that I see some faultless OM/OW stories on SI but rarely do I with LTA's. I can fully understand the ONS or short A situations where they were lied to themselves and didn't know the real facts. But to go years and years like in these LTA's - I would say rarely are they faultless.

Do did the OM/OW make promises to me? No. Does the OM/OW owe me anything? even an apology? No. That still doesn't mean they are faultless.

I see them in the opposite light, they are full of fault. Yes my WS is who I need to focus my attention on - but I put a great about of blame, fault & anger towards the OM. Do onto others as you would like done to you is a basic code we all live by and they violated this over and over again.

Until the OM or OW do the hard work to make up for their mistakes in life, they are a simply a discusting part of society that seems to have little respect for other human beings. They are like a drug dealer, so self involved in their own self interests that they don't give a crap how they may harm others. Just because there are lots of drug dealers or OM/OW that if it wasnt them it would be someone else doesn't make them innocent.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But to go years and years like in these LTA's - I would say rarely are they faultless.

Of course, we are talking in generalities. And I did not have LTAs in mind specifically. I did meet a lady last year who was the OW for 2 years (long-distance) and did not know that her 'bf' was married. But your point is well taken by all here.


That still doesn't mean they are faultless.

I agree in an absolute sense - but not really at fault in my immediate world. The drug dealer analogy is correct and if you look back several pages (and to my current bio) you will see that I use it.


Until the OM or OW do the hard work to make up for their mistakes in life, they are a simply a disgusting part of society that seems to have little respect for other human beings.

^^^yep. Glad I told the other BW. Looking the other way allows this shit to happen. I am so mad at the moral complacency of so many in society, including ICs. Still kinda bummed that she (I think) has very negative feelings for me. But that is my need for approval talking.

You got my overall point which was that we should be focused on the WS and their attitudes and beliefs. What they are doing (or not doing) to clean things up - which has nothing to do with the AP.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 1:21 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You got my overall point which was that we should be focused on the WS and their attitudes and beliefs. What they are doing (or not doing) to clean things up - which has nothing to do with the AP.

Yep - focus should be on our own WS.

Here is the thing that is my current struggle as I sit here a year out. I have heard "the don't concern yourself with the OM/OW speech" so many times that I wonder if I skipped a step in my own healing. I did just as we always say. But I still hold a lot of anger for OM1. I can't tell you the number of revenge plots that circle in my head still even a year out because they are too many to count. I fully understand he does not matter but in my case, I have never seen him, I have never talked to him, I dont know what he even looks like and I only know the city of where he now lives. This guy lives a very low profile, just about nothing online and he now lives a few states away. He now is married with kids.

This last year has been a lot of pain to process in my life for someone that seems more of a fantasy than real because I know nothing about him. I get the realities of the situation, I've read about other unsatisfying OM/OW encounters on SI, I know I should not expect much of anything from this person except more lies and deception. Half apologies are often a best case scenario. I still want to contact him and give him a piece of my mind. Other times one of my revenge plots seems like a better solution.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PositiveAttitude:

He will NEVER see the faults in her I'm afraid, and I believe it is truly important that he realize she is not perfect for him to knock her off the pedestal he's built for her in his mind.

That is not so important as the need for him to see the faults within himself. Until he can see them, he cannot own them. Until he owns his faults, he cannot change or fix them. Thus, he remains perfect on the pedestal he has created in his mind for himself. She was really just the mirror he used to admire himself on his pedestal.

StillStanding1:

I can see she's not perfect. Why can't he?

Because he cannot see, or is unwilling to acknowledge, his faults and imperfections. The OP was nothing special beyond a blank canvass willing to allow out our WS to paint on to them the picture of themselves our WS wanted to believe.

I think one of the benchmarks of a WS on the way to FWS and possible option for R is when he or she sees his or her true self in the A. Seeing his or her true self shatters the mirror the AP held, and the WS finally can see the former OP for what she or he really was and was not. It does no good to tell our WS to despise the OP, but when the WS does begin to despise the OP (especially if they see it without blaming shifting) it is a sign they are seeing reality.

My thought for the day:
There are no direct flights to R. Getting there requires many connections, often with extended layovers. Sometimes you may not even be on the same plane, and there is no certainty you will ever get there until you get there.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:57 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Ats!!!

There are no direct flights to R. Getting there requires many connections, often with extended layovers. Sometimes you may not even be on the same plane, and there is no certainty you will ever get there until you get there.

Well said, my friend, well said.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
PositiveAttitude
♀ Member
Member # 40624
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In our case I most certainly hold OW partially accountable. She knew WH was married when she gave him her number (hell, she was married too.) She knew WH had small children when she was arranging playdates for them with her children. She knew WH tried to end the affair 3 times to work on our marriage, and she continued to chase him.

I know she planned most of their dates and trips. How do I know this? Because I'm the "social director" in our marriage too. My husband doesn't trust any man, but he believes that most women do little wrong. He doesn't understand the ability for women to be manipulative, etc. My WH was easy prey for her.

Then when she decided to leave her husband, she finally found a way to let me know of the affair without it looking like ot was her that told me. She blamed it on a "friend." Then she attacked me repeatedly via text, started allowing WH to introduce her to his family members below I even "officially" knew about the affair. Started inviting my teenage Stepdaughter (MY baby) to go shopping, etc.

So while I don't hold WH faultless, in my opinion OW holds a ton of blame too!

My WH made vows with me, but seriously? Be a woman, and find an available man!

I hold NOTHING, but contempt for most OW/OM - and that's saying something because I'm an OC myself!!!


Posts: 145 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From:
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey ATS.

Is that sort of like "no matter where you go there you are" ?

BTW. The frog legs were some my W split with some co-workers. I do not know where they came from. I used to gig, grab and sometimes just shoot them. Those fresh legs were better than the ones I had last week.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Positive Attitude ~ You might have a conversation (maybe you have already) with your WH on flipping the situation.

Ask him how he would feel about you if you went out and fucked (yes, use shocking, vulgar language, because that is what an affair is) some other man. For years. Would you be faultless? I would be interested in what his take would be on that.

Is he trying to claim since she was single she had no fault? Wasn't she married when it started?

Because she luuuuurrrrrrvvvvvveeeeeeddddd him so much? And, I mean, who can blame OW? He is really just something, ain't he?
This is a quote from a different thread of yours that I posted. She has no fault because she just couldn't help falling in luuurrrvvvveee with him? Your WH's head is so big, I wonder how it fits up his ass!!!!!!!!!

eta: I missed the line in your above post saying OW was married then divorced. I thought I remembered that from a different post.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:15 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8947 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I could be wrong here, but I feel the number one quality that a lot of good men look for in a woman, especially if they are a BH, is faithfulness, trustworthiness and loyalty.

A faithful woman is a treasure. Real men want and appreciate that treasure. Any man who wouldn't want that, well, he isn't quality.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8947 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
PositiveAttitude
♀ Member
Member # 40624
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister -

My WH pulls the "free pass" card. As in I get a free pass to have sex with someone else once - you know since he did.

He truly infuriates me. I'm dealing with said big head today. "My affair would have worked out if I had wanted it to." "I would have gotten passed the guilt. How would I have destroyed everyone's life?"

Whatever.

I'm getting stronger every day. I'm sitting on one job offer. Still have the potential for a second, and have two interviews tomorrow.

I'm going to blow him away with how amazing *I* am. Shame the two of them (especially him) aren't in the same league as me.

[This message edited by PositiveAttitude at 5:34 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 145 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From:
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you go girl, Postive. I like your attitude.

a year from now you will see this:

He doesn't understand the ability for women to be manipulative, etc. My WH was easy prey for her.

as unnecessarily trying to rescue your H. Men are not hapless fools. He wanted to fuck her (using Sister's easy vernacular) and he thought he could get away with it. You won't really know who planned what without detailed questions. Maybe you've covered that ground. But why does it matter?

I get the rescuing - how do you rationalize reconciling with a heartless perpetrator. One that made lots of empty promises to an AP. Better to tell oneself a story that one's spouse was a 'victim' of a really clever, manipulative, mastermind predator. We all need to look at the truth to heal in the long run. Maybe in the end we do decide that our spouses were more the victim than not. Anyways, more opining.

Positive, do you not see the OW as doing you a huge favor by outing your WH?

This was your quote from your other thread:

I read an article the other day that said in affairs women want their AP to become reality and men want their affair partner to remain the fantasy.

I agree with that as a general statement. Responders to your post painted a picture of a delusional, desperate, screwed up woman. Sounds like someone deserving of, dare I say it...pity? What did your H say/do to enable this in order to get his illicit sex? In contrast your H sounds like a cold, heartless egotist.

You sound so much like you are on the upside of life right now. Interviewing successfully? I am impressed. Why do you want that guy? You might just be the bomb!

Sister,

well, he isn't quality.

DAMN STRAIGHT. Good to see your making an appearance absent an ideological controversy.

ETA: Has anyone read "The Seducer" by Claudia Moscovici? I read it last year. Wondering if anyone else did as well.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 6:01 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

prowoman, I just saw your other thread:

Don't believe in Divorce...but he is the father of my children and at least he's still here right?

Nope. File. Time for tough love indeed. I was sorry to see what you wrote.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
PositiveAttitude
♀ Member
Member # 40624
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do you want that guy? You might just be the bomb!

WH is starting to realize that I AM worth five of him and her put together - which I think is scaring him all the more. Good, he deserves to be shaken up a little.

Why do I want him - when he really isn't quality (Sister pegged that one!)? I want him because he USED to be a good man. Devoted, faithful, trying to put his cheating past behind him.

But while he didn't continue working on himself - I too let myself go for a very long time. I ballooned from 120 to 180 in a matter of months(of which I've lost 50 since DDay). I stopped being interesting in exchange for being nothing but a frumpy houeswife. My self-esteem plummeted, my self confidence disappeared.

I have ALL off that back now, and I'm never going to lose it again!

So why do I want him? Because I don't want to have to start over again by myself or with someone else. Because I still go weak in the knees when he looks at me and breathless when he kisses me. Because we are compatible and just different enough to keep things interesting. Because I don't want to lower mine or my children's standard of living.

But mostly because I don't want my children exposed to the OW. I think she is low quality trash, and I want my daughters surrounded by only positive examples of what ladies should be!!


Posts: 145 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From:
PositiveAttitude
♀ Member
Member # 40624
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder on a personal level though - the brokenness on both accounts for not only my WH but OW as well.

OW was married. OW was/is a predator. She's also a groupie for the particular line of work that my husband is involved in (Social Media posts prior to their affair even beginning proves this theory!)

If in my case it does conclude that OW was the chaser/predator will she ever NOT pursue WH? Will she ever move on? She seems to have already done so because she wasn't getting what she wanted out of the situation (as well as the possibility that she was seeing someone else earlier this year behind WH's back). Which means WH was nothing more than a conquest, and I was nothing more than the competition/enemy. Just sick.

[This message edited by PositiveAttitude at 6:22 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]


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