It's a long and difficult journey.
Ats and NJgal have given you great advice. The MC that says your WH should NOT share is wrong. The MC should have left that open to WH. For true R, it is good to share and communicate.
Rugsweeping is not R. It's like the term someone said here, (I think it may have been Ats) you are not R, but just not divorcing.
I know that is where I am now myself and am realizing that although that worked for a while for me, it's not what I want/need.
I think being in the state of "not divorcing" may be helpful to take a break from the chaos and pain and to get your head together and to work on you. You no longer need to listen to what your WH says or doesn't say. You can sit back and look at his actions. You cannot force him to communicate or share or act the way you wish he would/should act.
Make a decision to look at what you want and need. It's been a long time since Dday and you no longer have to wait to see what WH is saying or doing. Continue IC if you need it. Start making your own plans.
When you are sure of what you want, you can discuss it one more time with WH. If you feel that you can no longer live like this, let him know that if he decides to continue to rugsweep and not work for real R, you cannot stay married. (If that is your decision)
If you feel that you can continue like this because of the thousand and one reasons so many of us here on LTA who have been M for many years want to stay: kids, long M and extended family, house, careers, etc etc. then stay with the full knowledge of your decision. You can always change your mind in the future.
It's hard to soul search when our hearts, spirit, mind and soul have been torn apart and shredded. We have to find ourselves again and work on ourselves to heal and become the best we can be.
Keep posting, Danni.
[This message edited by honesttoafault at 1:50 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]
I have actually sorted out my emotions and accept the situation. I really do. I have absolutely no regrets about choosing separation & know that there was nothing I could've done post DDay, short of a lobotomy, to yield a different result.
Ive done plenty of exploring as to my contributions to the state of our marriage pre-A and have learned from them, now more aware of my communication deficiencies within a relationship, etc.
Ive also done a lot of reflecting upon the X, his downfalls, etc. and I do not pine for him in any way. He is not for me.
So, Im really ok. It is a bit lonely - that's all.
I limit my posting because I dont want to go back and think about these things all over again. But, I do relate to a lot that is said here - see myself in some people & for that reason - I urge you to look at the bigger picture.
When I read my journal - and saw what was going on regularly - I can't believe I lived that for 1 1/2 years with almost no emotional or other support from X whlie I tried to recover from this, before giving up - it's just astounding to me.
Anyway - thanks for the well wishes - but I'm aight.
it amazes me how much solace we all draw from here....even if we lurk once in a while or daily....there is a sense of community, a sense of belonging, a sense of remembering, and most importantly a sense of moving on, and a sense of survival
well it was a long ass week....and my fil is back in pfms life which i have to be honest has thrown me back to an ugly feeling.....had a bit of break down yesterday....as much as i tried to prepare myself for the ugly that will come when i finally give pfm his walkin papers.....i fear that the ugly will be here that much sooner now that his dad is back in his life....my in laws are not nice people and their perceptions in general are warped....and i believe once he learns what his son has done and then learns that i plan on divorcing pfm at some point in the future....my fil will twist pfm and pfm will make my life a living hell.....sooooo, anyways.....i know i will deal, i know i will survive, i know i will move on, i know i will come out of this much stronger and yet i also i know i will come out of this with more scarring then need be, as willl my kids....
at the funeral, when pfm looked upon his mother for the last time, me and the kids were with him, all holding him or touching him somehow so he knew he was not alone, all pfm kept repeating to the kids to his mother and to me..." this all should have been so different, its all my fault, i should have been different, i should have handled everything so different, its all my fault, i am so sorry, this is all my fault"......he actually kept saying that all through the wake and funeral.....much as he says it, is as much as he is still liar, he still untrustworthy and he is still the man who made my life a living hell as a wife and will continnue to make my life a living hell either when his father learns of all of it or when i give him his walking papers....whichever comes first.....
and when i voice these concerns to pfm, all he says is that he doesn't want the m arrage to end, is there anything he can do to make our marriage work...REALLY, REALLY....WHAT CAN YOU POSSIBLY DO!?!?!?!?...REALLY ASSHOLE...OR AS UKGIRL WOULD SAY ASSHAT......REALLY
he has been told so many times what he needed to do, and instead of doing them he just keeps asking what he can do,....the list is not gonna change...and at the top of the list was always...no more lying...the one thing, the one BIG thing he never could stop......stop askin idiot....he has had close to 5 fucking years.....5 fucking years to show me the "new" him......and the new him aint new enough.....he still has too much of the old, the liar part, the untrustworthy, the man who is still inappropriate, the man who has never been open, honest and transparent, the man who still made friendships with other women, whether or not they were or weren't sexual, he still had no business having those relationships if he wanted me....and the whole time i never made any secret of what my requirements were.....if he really wanted the marriage you would think he would have met them.....instead he just keeps askin....and i don't know why he keeps askin...is he really hopin the list will change...NOT`
anyways....its been a long ass week...and it gonna be an interesting time comin up.....and depending on pfm with my fil.....my timetable may be moved up.....which might just be a good thing....at least that is the way i will CHOOSE to see it.....because i will be that much closer to being free of him!!!!
ok....i am feelin my strength comin back....i will be ok, i will be better then ok....
its amazing how writing it all out helps....
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 8:08 AM, September 15th (Sunday)]
[This message edited by MutedMan at 6:38 AM, September 16th (Monday)]
Courage is attractive.
A life changing decision can be very hard.. like Iwant and Allgood. I listen to Dr Laura all the time. Her value is you stay M for the kids unless you are in abuse, infidelity, or addicted.
Abuse is abuse and should demand an immediate end to the M.
Once you realize infidelity or an addiction is part of your M and yet it still continues, You must have the courage to end your M.
Allgood, people do change. Some change once the bad behavior is identified, some don’t. When people continue to hide after they are exposed, you cannot fault yourself for making an effort. That is what you tried back then. I get it.. I can think of you as good woman for it. I do. And so you say.. I cannot control the choices other make, I can only control the choices I make.
Now, you made your choice. To free yourself, you make a good solid healthy choice for YOU.. because you love yourself.. make your H no longer part of your everyday world. You will end all your lingering grief. To keep the M just for the kids does have some responsibility. A child will see right through a M that is not loving. We teach our kids and IMO.. we can teach them that we don’t let anyone stomp on us. We teach them that even people very close to us may make choices not to love us, and we cannot accept it. We bring new people in our lives, their lives.. who only know how to love the proper way.
All of us are very sexual people. We all need to be loved with the love of touch, the love of quality time, love of services, love of gifts and words of affirmation. When we are denied any one of those things in a M.. it does have an element of misery at the very least. Life is way too short to accept it. We make a change and do not deny ourselves.
And something I know about every one of us who had spouses decided to be in a LTA.
We denied ourselves quality love. We accepted it. Thus, we must have the courage to change ourselves.
A story about this weekend.. I was at the Colts game with my W and her two friends. Her friend went to the restroom and I followed to do the same. I waited for my W’s friend but in the crowd we somehow got separated. When I get to my seat, I told my W’s friend in the presents of my W that I waited for her but must have missed her. She said, “Oh”… My W chimes in, “No you didn’t, you never wait for me, you always walk in front of me and never wait”
Me, “I wait for you.”
Truth.. Yes, I walk in front of my W. I walk fast, my legs are longer, I do it and that has been us our whole M. As we were walking in to the stadium, I intentionally walked slower. She has no clue any efforts I now make to be a far better man. She could not see it.
What my W did was to criticize me. And a second criticism was to do in public. It is her bad behavior.. most just go over her head. But I think she is now getting it.. She knew maybe by my body.. women read thing like that very well. She tried to put her hand on my shoulder as a way to apologize I suppose.
I tell you fine folks this story to tell you who I was.. In the past, I let that go. I am pretty sure everyone who had a spouse in a LTA had behaviors like me. I let bad behaviors go. It got to the point that stuff went right over my head. What I have changed about me is I control the things I can…
So here goes…
“Wife.. Yesterday at the game, you criticize me. And you did it in front of your friends. In the past, yes, I admit not being a man who waited for you… That has not been me for a long time. I can walk faster and that is a physical aspect, and I might slip again. But I am trying to the best of my ability. I realize it. I intentionally walk slower for you. Even going to the stadium without your noticing. This is really about criticizing. Criticizing does nothing to bring us closer. Telling me what you want does bring us closer.. because I am going to give you what you want the best I can. I expect nothing less then the same courtesy in return. Now I am going to fix us some dinner.. anything special you want?”
How about this addressing the real problem? “W, You are the one who walks too slow.. YOU CHANGE and walk faster. It is your fault you walk slow.. I wait for you and you take too long, hurry up.” Humm… a criticism addressed with a criticism.. why do we do that?
I tend to think the beautiful part of us is to be a giver. Honest.. you are most attractive because you give and give. And that is good. Never change that. But to give and give and be treated so poorly becomes misery in us.. Eliminate it. A simple “wait” is far different in giving than what you do.
You have a challenge. Your fears are great and all valid. Somehow, you must behave in ways your H is no longer attracted to you. What the heck are you doing to keep him still wanting you. I am confused about pfm too? Why would a man want a woman who chooses not to love him? Weakness I suppose.
Honest, If you can somehow guide him to make it HIS decision to not want you, not to want to be his W again.. You will get what you want and he will go away not so threatening. You almost had him when he told you, “You are no longer my W”.. Get him back in that mode.. keep him in that mode and skillfully place him place where he wants to take care of his children. Stop having sex with him to start. Is it his religion? Start communicating to him in ways that will convince him he no longer needs you because you are unable to complete him…. it is far better for him to focus on his real M.. but his boys need him. It is ok to let go.. that kind of stuff.. and you.. give your talents away for free right now. Go volunteer to be a substitute teacher… volunteer at the school and get to know the principle.. be creative. That might lead to security.
[This message edited by trynhard at 12:22 PM, September 16th (Monday)]
I had a rough weekend with WW...one major fight and one disagreement, both around the transitions in child care. I ended up asking in an e-mail today whether she would ever conceivably go NC with the AP. Dumb question, I know, but my give-a-fuck is still giving.
Her response is that she would only answer a personal question like that in front of a counselor. My response was that in that case we were at an impasse, because I would only go to a MC with her if she ended her affair.
If we didn't have to communicate about the kids, and coordinate all of the various kid activities, this would be so much easier to go NC with her.
Just feeling hopeless at the moment.
IWAM - I had a dream about you the other night. You were sitting behind a desk and your WH walks in and asks 'what can I do?' You reach into a drawer, where there is a huge stack of papers, all with the same list, and hand him the top page. He comes in a little while later, asks the same question, and you don't even look up, just reach in and give him another copy. I thought you would get a kick out of that. Glad funeral is over and it went reasonably without drama.
Mutedman - glad reunion went well, and you kept true to yourself. :-)
(((Kg))) - Hope dies a slow death. I don't know how to turn off the give-a-fuck. Wish I did. But please don't feel hopeless. No matter what, this will get better, for all of us. I truly believe that.
Love and hugs to you all!
All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)
That leaves me with so little hope since my WH still hasn't gone completely NC, has kept me in limbo all summer, and seems to reevaluate staying in our marriage at least once a week. He always rearrives at the decision to stay however.
Will he ever move past the feelings and positive emotions he holds for her? will she ever not be a third party in our marriage? :-(
Insist on NC. It's not worth trying to rebuild your marriage if the A is still going on in any form. My H was still texting his A (they were on a break, at her suggestion (isn't that cute? She did not want to be a homewrecker after all), after DD for another 7 weeks until he finally cut her off). And the first 2 weeks of MC, the A was still going on until I found hard evidence that he could no longer deny.
The fact that he is still there is a good sign...if he wanted out, he would leave. Many of them do.
Were did you read that about LTA's? I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I know that a few of us here had WS's that weren't really emotionally attached to the AP's.
That being said, I have read a few of your threads, and honestly, it doesn't seem like your WH is particularly remorseful. I feel you know that, though.
Will he ever move past the feelings and positive emotions he holds for her? will she ever not be a third party in our marriage? :-(
[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:40 PM, September 16th (Monday)]
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
I have no doubts that my husband loved this (insert colorful descriptives here) woman, and I know it's going to be hard for him to let her go since she did fill such a void for him. A void I would have gladly filled, but he always pushed me away and never made time for me. He even acknowledges this now.
He and I have talked more openly and honestly in the last week than we ever have, and it's all been about how he's trying to get over "her". I seriously deserve a medal for listening to all this crap.
But at this point I don't even know which direction to point my feet in. Again nine hours from home, unemployed, two small children with a WH that travels all the time (he's been gone for 10 days this time).
I'm just exhausted, and I still have to hold on because I don't have any other choice right now.
Why is it so hard to separate emotionally? You know that they have made the choice for the AP, yet switching off the give-a-fuck in yourself is so hard
I do not know your back story - but in general - you were likely blind-sided by your wife's LTA and your feelings for your spouse dont just end because her infidelity has become known to you. She's still likely the person you are closest to in this world. And, yes, it would be easier to move on or not care if you didnt have daily contact with her - but not an option when you have little kids.
While Im sure this seems like the longest 2 months of your life - you have a long way to go. YOu are still raw. It takes a long time for your heart to catch up with your head, but you will get there.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:46 PM, September 16th (Monday)]
I read the blurb about LTA's being harder to heal from because of the likelihood of emotional attachment. But I couldn't tell you where I read it because I read so much nowadays that I don't ever remember.
I dont think you need to listen to him describe how he misses OW. That is just adding salt to the wound. I get it that they dont lose their feelings for OW just like that - but he needs to just keep that to himself. That' sjust unbelievably selfish & quite frankly heartless.
Have you read: 'Love Must Be Tough' by James Dobson?
He's a christian author and believes in trying to save marriages but in cases like your's where the WS thinks he is 'in luv' with the affair partner Dobson advises that the BS take a tough love approach-very similar to the 180 approach that they talk about on SI.
Dobson gives a good explanation of how to implement the tough love approach and how and why it often makes the WS finally wake up out of the fog.
allowing him to sit on the fence and have it both ways will only allow the affair to continue.
I am so tired of his fence sitting, and I can tell that he is emotionally traumatized from it as well.
I'm not sure how much grief he can continue to put himself through.
Part of our problem was that we don't have a ton of memories/experiences that don't involve our children. They have no memories that DO involve children. I'm trying to heal the emotional wounds so he sees that he doesn't need her and all his needs can be met within the context of our marriage.
However, we have seen it time and time again how you can not "win" back or "love" them back into the marriage.
(((PositiveAttitude))) Sorry you're having a rough time this evening. Take care of yourself, sweetie, it will get better.
[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 10:13 PM, September 16th (Monday)]