Since d-day my new attitude is to protect myself from any drama, anxiety, unpleasantness whenever possible.
I try to stay away from toxic people-family or not.
second: even though i plan of divorcing pfm, he is still the father of my kids, therefore connecting us as family, and i would like to remain amicable
third: its the right thing to do....and miracle always does the right thing...
but I am different now....they are no longer in a power position to hurt me emotionally, while my sil could still throw a hissy fit and just might, and she might even try to physically hurt me....she will end up hurting herself way more with that behavior...and i intend on staying clear away from her....pfm has already told her that she was out of line....even he is different now...once upon a time he would have helped them put me under the bus, not anymore...he has finally stepped up in every way i had always needed him too, ironically....he just could not stop lying....
anyways...i would regret it if i didn't go more then i would regret goin!!!!
I have stepped up and have been there for pfm while he has had this loss.....he and his mother were estranged almost since d-day.....it was d-day that exposed them for the parents they were to pfm....
wow....i had finished writing the above, pfm came home from his sisters after they picked out his mothers burial place...and me, pfm and kids were talking...turns out my kids say that i have not been a good girl with my mouth...my actions yes but my mouth..NOT....well bad me....apparently.....dr phil always says...there is no reality, only perception...!!! its amazing how everyones perceptions can be so different.....and well...it is what it is....i believe considering the circmstances i have gone above and beyond...i know i have been there for him...and he knows i have been there for him, i will be damned if i am going to pussyfoot around him.....these are not nice people, and neither was he...but there is a part of me that is proud of my kids...sticking up for their dad..
I think that is the key...what you NEED.
Again this is premature, but it is one of those complicated situations that I may need to deal with in the future. Any thoughts on how to deal with something like this?
ok...now to your question....a little background...my father left my mother for her sister...the sister had 3 kids, my mother had only me....he married the sister and they had their own child....pretty messed up...
anyways....there were always funerals, weddings and family events...my mother only went to the funerals and only one wedding, that of one of her brothers...and every time they saw each other they were very cordial, sometimes chatty about the dead person, and one would never know their history...my mother has an enormous capacity to put aside her pain from the past to deal with the present...she has lived her life letting go of all the anger because she saw from her own mother how anger can turn you into a distortion of someone you once were....and harboring all that anger made me grandmother forever unhappy....it doesn't mean that you forgive, it doesn t mean that you forget...you just let it go....it serves no purpose..prolonged anger will never serve any purpose...
now...granted short term anger is warranted and deserved...but in your case...at your wifes funeral if and when that occurs.....your kids will be present and they will have lost their mother....LET IT GO......it would not be the time nor would it be the place...and i hope the om would have the decency to stay away..but the world is full of indecent people....at wakes, funerals etc....it needs to be about the people left behind....in your case it would be your kids....and it would not do them any good in their greif to their remaining parent lose it to anger...you will need to step up to be there for them in any way shape and form....and giving in to the anger would also end up being a regret....always take the high road...
today i will be walking in to the lions den myself...i know i am not welcome by several of the children (grown ass adults) left behind from my mil...but i go to offer support to my ws, whom i am still currently married to, because its his mother as well....you cannot please all the people all the time...and i really don't care about his sisters....if his father expressed that he didn't want me there, i might have considered not going....but then again...these people never showed me an ounce of respect either...so my high road...go and stay in the background COMPLETELY.....tis not the time and place for any of us to deal with each other from an angry persepective....but i know at least one of his sisters will not care less...her emotions run very high...and i seriously believe she has some serious mental health issues...whether she be bipolar or bpd....she def has some issues ....anyways, i digress....
i live my life always trying to take the path of least regret....play out scenarios in my head before i make decisions based upon my choices...and when we are allowed the luxury of time to consider all the choices put before us its easy to figure out most of the time...and you need to ask yourself how you would feel about each choice, not tomorrow, but a year from now and 5 years from now.....the short term gratitfication usually means long term regret...!!!!
so kg...play out each choice and what effects each choice will have not only to you but your kids and from there make your decision based on what would give you the least regret and hopefully no regret....
not looking forward to these next 2 days...god bless xanax....it is great for my figure though....i don't have much of an appetite....so thats the good side...
My sich is not exactly the same, but I attended MIL's funeral a year or so ago. MIL did not like me, the toxic members of FWW's family were there, and the BIL she had an EA (PA?) with. I went to support my family (FWW, son and younger stepdaughter).
I arranged for FWW, DS and I to have a hotel to stay at so we did not need to stay at condo with other people. I rented a car at the airport so no one had to pick us up or drive us around. I let FWW do what she needed to preparing for the funeral and all with her family. DS and I did other things.
I mostly stayed in the background, and people were fine letting me do that. There were occasional people who came to me to talk; I was not a part of a receiving line or sitting with her family. Ironically, my niece, nephew and his wife spent about as much time talking with me and DS as they did BIL and SIL. I assisted as requested by FWW or church/funeral staff.
BIL said Hi to me early on, and I had nothing to say to him. I did not avoid him or his gaze, but looked through him. He knows that I know what an ass he is. When FIL, FWW, DS, BIL, SIL, niece and I went to lunch after the funeral I arranged with the Hostess to have the entire bill put onto my card.
I will go through a similar event when FIL dies, and that I intend to make my last contact with members of FWW’s family. I will have demonstrated to my DS how a healthy person attends to these life events, and fully supported my FWW with whom I am R’d. I ensured that I owed her family for nothing, not even a GD lunch.
KG: You would be going to the funeral for your kids' sake. When my grandfather and grandmother died, xWH#1 went and sat with our sons to give them support. They needed it because I had so much to do at the wake (being the only grandchild and my mother was the only surviving child) I believe when the time comes, you'll be able to hold it together for your kids.
I just first want to clarify WH is remorseful. He is kind helpful and respectful and does treat me well. So he has changed a great deal. He is doing what he can not what I need/want I know.
He has had IC. I do not know what or if it was helpful. I do not ask. I thought it was not my business.
I also was in IC up until about 6 monthes ago. I also stopped taking some of the meds that I began after the As. That may be why it is all in my face again. The meds were keeping these feelings at bay.
What Do I want? I HAVE NO IDEA.
Is it to late to talk about the As. to figure this out I have no idea.
Just need some one to talk to I guess.
R'ing ?? yes, no, maybe, I dont know
This is not the end, this is not the beginning
He has had IC. I do not know what or if it was helpful. I do not ask. I thought it was not my business.
FWW's IC was my business. I did not look for session by session details, but I expected to know what was being worked on, and how it was progressing. I wanted to be aware of examples of her implementing the things IC had worked with her on.
There were times in the first year or so that I called to talk with our IC/MC, or scheduled a session, to ask about FWW and looking for answers based on his insights.
It is never too late to talk with your partner about what bothers you and impedes you communication in a M.
FWW is better at doing what she can as opposed to doing what I need or want, so I get your frustration.
Danni - I have no advice for you, just well wishes.
As for me, WH and I have entered a state of pleasant limbo. I can't call it R - his phone is still under tight security and any talk of the A is still off limits, outside of the occasional trigger. On the other hand, he is being sweet, loving and attentive and is handling my triggers with sensitivity. He's made comments, not to me, but to DD, that show signs he is starting to be remorseful. He's given me access to his iTunes account, is taking the Love Languages quiz this weekend, and I'm fairly certain he's started listening to one of the audiobooks I bought him (they aren't where they were gathering dust for months, so he's either listening to them or threw them out lol). If only I didn't have a panic attack every time I walk into the bathroom and see him on the phone quickly flipping pages... *shrugs*
ETA - No worries, 7yrs.
[This message edited by DecimatedHeart at 8:20 AM, September 13th (Friday)]
All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)
Also told him that if he did not feel comforable talking to me about the As that he should not it was his business. So we started off in a bad way.
So 3 years later still so may issues.
I do have to say just being here and posting again has made a difference for me.
We pick up his nephews every Wed. Right before we were to pick them up he started with " If I had money I would take you away would you come". Stupid Sh**. I actually said I dont think I would. But he could not let it go. "Why? Why would I not want to go away with him? I Lost it!! You want to talk now we are driving into the driveway to pick them up and now you want to talk. Let start with keeping you d*** in your pants. But I can not change the past can I. I can't remember everything I said. I know not very productive but I felt better.
I started back at the gym and stopped drinking (it was becoming a problem) 2 weeks ago.
We will be leaving for Maine we go every weekend. It gets harder to just spend my weekends with him. I have nothing to say to him.
Hopefully the weather is nice and I wont be stuck inside.
Have a good weekend everyone. Here to uneventful for everyone.
I have found that if there is something specific I want to talk about, I prepare myself ahead of time. I let NPDWH know that I want to talk and set aside a time. I try to stick to the one (or two) topics. Sometimes it's productive, sometimes it's not.
You have a lot of anger and hurt inside that has not been dealt with.
You might consider a new MC and let WH know that there are some issues that you need to discuss and a third party will help both of you discuss it in a more productive way.
Just wanted to throw this out there for anyone who is dealing with a ton of crap, inconsistent statements, behavior, etc while trying to navigate through R:
I used to post here every day, probably many times during the day for well over a year, I would imagine. AT one point, probably when i couldnt sleep, I decided to take each one of my SI posts and condense it into a document - editing out my responses to other members. I just read some of it tonight & I can't believe how much I forgot. It's clear to me now that back then, while I was in the moment, I couldnt see what an arrogant, unremorseful, insensitive prick he was (sorry - is there still a no venting policy here?lol) But, it was a clear pattern of just a few days of me posting how hopeful I was, then the inevitable follow up post where I had realized he was never going to change.
As I read it now, removed from it - it is so clear that this was nothing like R. That the slightest effort on his part made me unbelievably hopeful, despite a solid history of his disappointing me.
Anyway, just throwing it out there in case it's helpful to someone.
And, in case anyone's wondering why I would havw been reading my document 2 years after separating - well, I must admit, I haven't healed from this as much as I would like. But, plugging along...
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 10:56 PM, September 13th (Friday)]
if this is a mess sorry trying this on my phone.
5am and surfing here, not a good sign
honest, that is me again stuffing everything down while in ic i got much better at talking but back to the old me again. as for mc it was not her it was wh. all agreeable in her office but once we were out everything forgotten. our last appointment we talked about how he froze with a up instead of
talking. she gave us some good tools i wanted to talk about the difference between sex and love. he is my one and only. we never had the talk. when i asked him he said in a bit. no talking happened. so i canceled the rest of the appointments.
i do not think a new mc would help. he is incapable of talking about anything foo issues.
so i will stay here because this is helping me to talk about it.
try to work this out myself.
Hi allgood, what a really insightful post. Thank you I think many of us mistake occasional minimal efforts for sustained effort over time.
Early in this process when FWW was very unwilling to share any information about her A, our IC/MC made the comment that I was entitled to ask any questions I wanted to ask, and FWW was entitled to answer as little as she wanted, even to answer none. Truthfully, that is a reality. If I asked and she was not willing to answer, my next decision was not how to MAKE her answer, but to decide if I wanted to stay and try to fix a M with a FWW who was unwilling to show me she owned her A-crap by telling me what that crap was. Did I want to be M’d to a person who put her own shame and guilt ahead of my legitimate interest in what she did and who she did it with?
Your WH does not HAVE to tell you anything, or share his IC work. What you need to decide is if you can have a strong M with a person who continues to hide parts of his life from you? Who, apparently, is still ashamed of who he is.
With FWW and I, I moved out of the house at one point, and her attending and progressing in IC was a condition of my moving back in. She did not HAVE to do IC, tell me about her IC, or have IC share with me. OTOH, I did not have to move back in and keep working on R.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:20 AM, September 14th (Saturday)]
i agree he does not have to answer or say anything. i was just surprised that the ic advocated no communication. that i had no right to ask, not that he had to or should talk to me. he cannot own his crap and his ego, shame and his needs aremore important to him than i am.
hard reality to swallow.
i am looking at this mess with a clear head for the first time in a long time(no meds).
i need to look at me not h anake some hard choices.
I am so sorry that you are struggling.
You have gotten some great advice.
Allgood is right-you are not feeling positive about reconciling with your WH because there is a lot of unfinished business. She struggled to try to R but her WS would not give it his all.
Your WH is trying to slap a band aid on an oozing open sore in the hope that everything will heal with very limited discussion, honesty, or openness.
That's not going to happen.
The only way that most BS can begin to heal from the LTA and move toward true reconciliation is when we have had a chance to process the infidelity to the extent that we need to.
I needed to process and process.
I needed to know everything.
I needed to be able to feel like my FWH was willing to do everything in his power to save this marriage.
I feel that those that are in a successful reconciliation after a LTA are those that had a very remorseful WS that was willing to rip that band aid off and really clean out all the garbage.
It's amazing how often I read posts where the BS is willing to accept a WS who does not 'feel comfortable' going to IC/MC.
A WS that thinks all ICs are quacks etc.
IMHO the reason that the WS does not believe in IC is because he is afraid to open up to anyone, afraid to face what he has done, afraid that he will be criticized,afraid of facing his demons, afraid of the truth.
7 yrs is right when he says that not all ICs know how to deal with infidelity and may not be helpful but that's when you need to search for someone that is a good fit for you and your spouse .
There are good ICs out there as well as good programs like Retrouvaille that the couple can attend.
The point is...I have not heard about any couple that has survived infidelity by sweeping things under the rug.
They may stay married but they are not reconciled.
And about the IC telling your husband that he should not discuss his sessions with you....I don't believe that he said that.
An IC is not allowed to discuss the sessions with anyone without the permission of the client but...the client can discuss what happens with anyone.
I often talked about things that my IC said to me etc.
And a good IC may even ask the BS to come in for one session to get a feel for the dynamics between the couple and to check in.
I think your WH is telling you this because he does not want to share his true feelings and thoughts with you.
And the reason that you are feeling uncomfortable with this is because the only way that you can reconcile after a huge betrayal is if you can begin to trust the WS again.
And the only way we can trust them is if they are honest with us.
In my case I kicked my FWH out of the house right after d-day and we were separated for 6 months.
During those months he was desperate to get back together and he was willing to do a lot of hard work on himself- IC, AA, MC.
That was when we did much of the hard work of getting to the bottom of the whys? hows? where? when? etc.
And even with all of that work I still had questions for a few more years!
Recovering from infidelity takes a long time and a lot of hard work.
[This message edited by njgal480 at 8:48 AM, September 14th (Saturday)]
But after going and going, and doing things that seem to be moving forward, we don't always have time to deal with all those emotions that got shoved to the side as we were doing what needed to be done. You have 4 young kids and a challenging job and still are trying to coparent with xWH.
I felt like one of the performers that are spinning all those plates on sticks and had to keep it going. Didn't have time to breathe or reflect.
Take some time for you. If you need to go to IC for a few sessions it may be helpful to sort out a lot of the emotions that you still have.