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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 32
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, August 10th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

I really like the discussion about being attractive. I think no matter how much it may be explained it is still hard to understand. It is about being the best partner you can be and being loving even when you do not feel like it. But also, to me, it is about respecting and honoring yourself, who you are, who you can be, what you want.

It is a sensitive term due to the implicit rejection of an A. There is always someone smarter, better looking, more talented, whatever. Being attractive is understanding that and making sure your partner accepts it as well. I think being attractive also means you have nothing to prove. I told my WW that I do not have to prove anything to her. If she doesn't like me for who I am and can become, then fine, she can go and I can find someone more attractive than her.

I think being attractive iz also not being afraid to acknowledge ones own failings.

ATS, your comment about the kind of mirror you held up to your wife in your old marriage might be the most underrated comment I've seen in my 18 months on SI. It gets very close to the elusive *why* that we all seek. Why do people need mirrors, and some more than others? Why do we up the mirror that we do?

I held up a negative mirror to my WW for a long time. More on that later.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 3:11 PM, August 10th (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, August 11th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Jack:

This discussion is very good. I think I'm coming to the conclusion that being "attractive" is being healthy. Not codependent, but balanced in loving your spouse, being the best person you can be, AND having respect both for yourself and your spouse.

Respect in the sense that you don't put up with abuse and bad behaviors.

About mirrors..... hmmmm this can be complicated. There are some people who really need it, I know I needed it for reassurance about how much I was loved...which is my problem.

Over time, a negative response can erode the self esteem, especially if the only mirror you are seeing is your spouse's. You begin to believe their POV, especially when they seem so logical about everything else.

For me, it was the opposite, I held up a wonderful mirror for NPD, great NPD kibbles. He still thinks everything he does and says is right.

Still trying to work on me, but old habits of holding the mirror up for NPD are hard to break. I need to hold up my own mirror and see reality for myself and accept me and heal me and do things to make a better me.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, August 11th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest: You will find it easier to get past NPD's mirror when he plays less of a role in your life. He is toxic.

As to the attractiveness conversation - Im unsure of the context. While clearly partners need to be attractive (inall senses)to encourage a healthy, happy relationship, I don't think the opposite is necessarily true. People evolve over the course of their lives, at some point, partners in marriage may no longer be compatible or have the same interest, etc. Each may be a perfectly attracive person in their own right - just not right for each other anymore. Of course, any time someone's needs are not being met in their eyes, it can lead to affairs, etc. But, I think it's important to bear in mind that that doesnt mean theres something unattracive, etc as to the BS.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 10:45 AM, August 11th (Sunday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, August 11th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((walking))) welcome to our little corner of si...and so so sorry you are here......

ats's first post to you was completely awesome.....as were the rest....taking care of you needs to be your priority, as my c said to me after d-day...i experienced my own persnal 9/11....and its all so overwhelming...to say the least....so take each day as it comes...take care of yourself physically big time....because of your emotional state your health may be at risk....see a dr and talk to him(her) about some antidepressants or antianxiety meds so YOU CAN sleep at nite...you may still toss and turn, but at the very least you might get a couple of hours each nite for now...

as to your questions bout grand gestures....truthfully grand gestures is not really what you would need...you would need steady new behaviors, you would need total honesty, transparancy, and he would need to go to counseling to get to the bottom of his "whys".....that would be the grand gesture....but he probably has no idea what to do and how to do it...thats where you would need to give him a list while you are in the state of "not divorcing" and then its up to him whether or not he meets your NEW requirements or not...if he does then you can work on getting throught the infidelity stuff and once the infidelity stuff is dealt with then you work on the marriage....if that is what YOU CHOOSE to do then...take your time....never make decisions based on raw emotion.....more often then not raw emotion decisions are usually one that we regret in time....so give yourself the gift of time

you sound amazingly strong for someone so close to d-day, even though you may not feel it!!!

h&c: yay, you sould like you are really getting it all together...


honest and heart: you both are sounding stronger with each post...and i am proud of how far you both have come....


7years loved your post too!!!

and tryn...i already do live my life, with exception to family functions...tis the only place where we are the "family"...but even then, its different because i no longer "see" him in the light of "husband" in the traditional sense....and i really am doing well detaching and for the most part detached......it doesnt mean though that "he" doesnt astound me with his constant stupidity.....LOL and occasionally it still makes me angry....especially when it affects me on a day to day level....but thankfully most of his "stupid" has just become proof of my path...i have never had any doubt what so ever of my path because of his stupidity... which makes it easier....

as for you tryn....i still think you need to talk to your wife more....allow her into your heart with all of your fears.....allow her to help you heal which might in turn give you the marriage you truly desire....not to give her guilt, but to give her your "truths" your "fears".....and not to wait until your wife decides to go to the bar, or your wife continues to talk to men etc....when the sich arrises...i would think you could talk to her about it right then and there.....whatever did happen with the man at her job the guy you called "mike"

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had to chime in on the attractive discussion.
If what you mean is that the BS should not stay focused on the WS and should try to do what is best for himself/ herself etc.
Then I agree.
But, I do not want any newbies to get the impression that the affair happened because they were lacking in some way.
And I do not believe that they should beat themselves up about what they should have done to prevent the affair!
The LTA has very little to do with the BS.

Sometimes WS that have no remorse about their actions and WS that are very narcissistic and entitled will blame shift - try to blame the BS for the affair.

Do not buy into that!

Almost all the WS will describe themselves as being unhappy in the marriage. But, that unhappiness came from within themselves.
They were disappointed, depressed, detached . Often they had extremely unrealistic and immature attitudes as to what marriage and what life should be.
Life is hard, marriage is hard, being a parent is hard.

And unfortunately our spouses did not have the coping skills to deal with life's ups and downs.
When the going got rough they had an affair!
So often you read stories on SI that the WS had an affair after the first baby was born or if the couple was struggling with infertility. Or if ther was an ill child or a child in crisis .
A death in the family, financial problems, loss of job, dissatisfaction with their job. A fear of growing older - you name it.

Basically the affair was an escape from their day to day life.

So the attractiveness of the BS had little if anything to do with it!.
Often the BS was actually a very good spouse, good parent etc.

It was the WS ' perception that was wrong.

That's why many WS do have an epiphany after d - day.
Being confronted about their actions is like a slap in the face and it forces them to take a long look at themselves. And they realize that they had been looking at their life in a very toxic, skewed way.

Those are the WS that are able to turn things around.
And the way they do that is by making huge changes in themselves.
Basically, they need an attitude adjustment.

And that's when they begin to have a renewed appreciation for everything that they have-especially their marriage.

And that's where the grand gestures come in to play.
I do think that the WS needs to show grand gestures in order to successfully reconcile.
Small gestures are not enough.
The status quo is not enough.

I'm not talking about bouquets of flowers etc. although those gestures are nice too.

The grand gestures I'm talking about are making changes that need to be made to save the marriage: going no contact with the OM/OW, changing your job if need be to avoid the OM/OW, stopping drinking if that's an issue, moving if the OM/OW is a neighbor, handing over all of your passwords etc, going to counseling even if you are uncomfortable with it,
A grand gesture is stepping out of your comfort zone in order to save your marriage and make amends to your BS.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 12:49 PM, August 12th (Monday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great Post NJgal!

HandC you seem to be in a good place. Keep it up, focusing on you is always a good thing no matter the outcome.

Welcome Walking, sorry you are here but this is a great place to vent, discuss, and ask questions.

I hope all of you are coping and doing well in your situations.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Honest))) - did he really say that to you about moving OW into your house - or marrying someone else to put there??! I say this to you with all the love in my heart -- if anyone on SI needs to leave their WS, it's you, darlin'. Be strong. You deserve better.

Walking - glad we were able to help, even just a little. Keep posting, okay?

NJGal - well said!!!

Miracle - I do feel stronger overall, I think. After D-day, I couldn't bear to look at myself in the mirror. I felt ugly, inside and out. But more and more, I am feeling attractive, inside and out. I am seeking that validation from myself, and trying not to seek it from WH, which is where I always got that validation before, and it helps, I think. Sephora and Ann Taylor are making a mint off of WH's affair lol, but mostly I am trying to work on me - healing me, improving me, loving me.

I had a horrible trigger this past weekend, which led to probably the worst fight WH and I have had, which may have actually led to a breakthrough (or maybe I just let him hoover me in again - you be the judge).

There are 63 beaches on Long Island. One of them, which was always my favorite since WH took me there when we first started dating and was the first beach we took DD to, also turned out to be where WH and OW would meet to hook-up. I hate to say it, but when the hurricane hit it, I did a little happy dance inside. I envisioned every grain of sand they touched being swept away by the storm. It's since re-opened, and WH took DD there on Saturday while I was at work for a Daddy-Daughter day. Told me in an email while I was at work. I lost it, probably overreacted, but I couldn't help it. Ended up having to go home and get a half a Xanax on my lunch hour. Was crying when they got home shortly after I did. WH had no tolerance for me triggering and it blew up into a huge, HUGE fight. They'd rushed home to see me, wanted to have a great day with me, and I ruined it and ruined their Daddy-Daughter time. He actually told me he blamed me for the affair, wasn't remorseful at all, and would never forgive me for leaving to go to my dad's last summer (even though he was already 9 months into the affair by that time). At some point, I quit screaming and calmly told him that if he really has no compassion and no remorse, that I was done, and not "move into the spare room" done, but DONE. And I meant it. He said he wasn't talking about this anymore, and whether he was done with the conversation or done with us was up to me.

I went into the spare room and sat for a bit, trying to reconcile that it was really, really, over and where the hell do I go from here. An hour later, I go downstairs and DD says she got an invitation to a friend's birthday party and WH tells her no, we will be on vacation then for my birthday. I was so confused.

DD wants to go out for ice cream, so we do and have a great time - joking around and feeling like The Three Musketeers again and afterwards WH invites me out back to watch for the meteor shower with them... where he is cuddling me and getting frisky! He was kissing me, told me he loved me, and when DD got cold and went inside, we ended up making love on a lounge chair outside!

On Sunday, we all went to the movies. He was quiet, somewhat withdrawn, but he usually is on Sundays, always has been -- all the things he wanted to get accomplished that week, which is always a much longer list than plausible to do, catches up with him and he gets upset or freaks out. He specifically said it wasn't anything about me/us, although he was upset I screamed that he already had naked pics of OW on his phone when I went to my Dad's. If he was upset because he was ashamed of it and was afraid DD might have heard (she didn't), then I get that.

Part of me wants to say - he knew it was the last straw for me and he woke up, that things will start to get better from here. The one line he hasn't crossed yet was he wouldn't have sex with me when he was seeing her, and he wouldn't see her when he was being intimate with me. So I think I can assume that it's a sign the A is really over. Part of me says - it's just more hoovering, he panicked and knew the one way to lure me back in was to have sex with me when I have been very vocal that the lack of intimacy was a huge issue for me. That part says that the A is probably over FOR NOW, until the next time he breaks NC. Part of me wondered if it was a goodbye screw, although that doesn't seem to be the case.

So, thoughts? Think this is a turning point or just more of the same on a greater scale?

[This message edited by DecimatedHeart at 5:29 PM, August 12th (Monday)]


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all - its been a while since I have posted so I thought I would chime in and say hello.

Ahh I see the old attractiveness debate continues, I'll throw my two cents into the discussion from what I have learned as I approach almost one year out. I think ALL on here have great viewpoints on how to deal with an LTA. Many of these viewpoints vary greatly. While in my own situation I know there was absolutely nothing I did to cause my WW to have an A - I know that dealing with the after affects of it are as much about me as it is about her dealing with her own issues. I have had to sit back and reevaluate my own life and decide what it is that I want. I have had to find my own individualism again and if in me finding that it made me more attractive to my WW that is just a bonus. I don't think any marriage is affair proof but making yourself more attractive to your spouse certainly helps. Making yourself more aware of what is going on also helps. Making sure your spouse is no longer a broken person absolutely helps. The list goes on and on - there is not a perfect formula though.

Almost all the WS will describe themselves as being unhappy in the marriage.

Actually in my case this was not true for my WW. For many it probably is very likely but not in mine. I only point this out not that I think either way is a big deal - but to only show we have all unique situations to deal with. I think we often try to find similaries in each of our situations so that we can relate. We should also look to find the differences so that we properly adjust our plan. I have found it very benificial to listen to what different people have done and take bits and pieces from everyone to form my own plan to deal with all of this. Unfortunatly there is no magic map to provide us direction, we are left to just wing it and figure it out on our own.

For myself, I am starting to find more and more peace with my situation every day. It hasn't been easy, I know my situation has been much different than many others experiences but it is working for me and I am happy. It does feel strange as I start approaching a year out from knowing. I remember after I got over the initial shock of it all I foolishly thought I would be over this in a couple months. I was looking for a fast solution - I think I have finally come to accept it is a process that will just take time. I refuse to let my WW's LTA define me though - I will never let that happen. It will always be something that I had to experience that I wish I never had to but it will never define who I am.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, August 12th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal: excellent post....


heart: oh, hon.....i don't think he had any kind of breakthrough....sounds more like he is ignoring the elephant in the room.....

having fun, joking, planning a vacation having sex......no where is he dealing with HIS issues and the issues his affair has caused...

keep your eyes wide open....a few good days does not erase all the bad days and the bad days to come....and because he has not dealt with his issues you could probably take it to the bank that there WILL be lots more bad days until he does...and if and when he finally does deal with his issues there will still be bad days but there will be a difference...a big difference.....HE WOULD BE A WORK IN PROGRESS to improve who he is and how he treats you, he would be dealing with what ever led him to cheat in the first place so that he would be building a new "history"....

nobody is perfect and that is not what he would need to strive for, he would need to strive to be the best husband he could be and should be, and he would do it because he "WANTS" to!!!!whatever the motivation he would need to do it because HE WANTS TO...whether its to save your marriage, or he just wants to be the best man he could be for himself....and hopefully it would be both....

but for now, i dont think he has shown you anything..


((((heart))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 1:23 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reunite- Actually in my case my FWH said that he would have described himself as happily married during the LTA years.
And, he has always said that he loved only me and did not love the MOW.
But he would have described himself as dissatisfied with his lot in life.
Not happy with where his career was.
Not happy with how much of my time two teenage children and a full time job were taking away from him, angry at the world at the serious health crisis one of our children was dealing with .
He started the LTA the year he turned 50. Coincidence?
He said after d day that he took me for granted and never appreciated me.
So.... My FWH would not have said he was unhappy with his marriage either. It was more a dissatisfaction with his life.

In a nutshell as they say on SI .... He was broken. Toxic, depressed, drinking like a fish, carrying on a toxic LTA with an alcoholic MOW co-worker...
Now he looks at the world with different eyes.
He is so grateful for his life, wife, children , marriage.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 1:24 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reunite- Actually in my case my FWH said that he would have described himself as happily married during the LTA years.

That is interesting njgal - I would maybe suspect that it may be more common that in LTA's the WS would describe themselves as happy in the marraige during the A as how else in some cases do they last as long as they do. I still struggle trying to understand it all in my case as there was never a time when things were bad and then the A started, the A was always there from the very start of our time together. Lately I just been working to accept it as it is and realize that I will never fully make sense of it.

Your response made me think of another comment related to attractiveness. You can be the most attractive person in the world, both external and internal, but if your WS has not fixed their issues that may not be the attractiveness they are looking for so your efforts may go unnoticed. I know that in my case, OM1 treated my WW like crap basically. I was and have always been a pretty good husband but still my WW sought out someone that treated her like crap to fill her void. Broken people are often attracted to other broken people. Until your WS addresses their issues, what you would think would typically be found to be attractive may just turn out to be the opposite of what they are looking for.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal... spot on!


The LTA has very little to do with the BS.
Sometimes WS that have no remorse about their actions and WS that are very narcissistic and entitled will blame shift - try to blame the BS for the affair.


Almost all the WS will describe themselves as being unhappy in the marriage. But, that unhappiness came from within themselves.
They were disappointed, depressed, detached . Often they had extremely unrealistic and immature attitudes as to what marriage and what life should be.
Life is hard, marriage is hard, being a parent is hard.


Basically the affair was an escape from their day to day life.

It was the WS ' perception that was wrong.


Some examples (WW quotes) from h&c land.

It was exciting! - receiving a text
The thrill of the chase! - arranging for a tryst
It mad me feel good! - validation of beauty from someone other than h&c
It made our M better. - false and a huge delusion
I treated you, h&c, the same way during the A as I did during the rest of our M. - false and another grand delusion
You h&c were going to leave me anyway. - we had our arguments over affection and I suspect she was already starting email with her AP at the time
It was just sex! - true, partially true and false. Subject of another post.
The kids were mean to me! - yes, kids can be mean but usually we have the authority to control it if we choose.

Yes, WW life was "hard". She worked part time. She shuttled the kids to all of their activities. She maintained the household.

Yet, we lived in a nice community. We had no debts other than our home mortgage. We sent our kids to good summer camps. If I was not at work, then I was at home. I did the lawn, the dishes, and the laundry. WW had Mondays to herself as she did not work the entire day.

Yes, WW was busy and she had time to respond to her AP texts within a minute. Yes, I could be irritable when tired, frustrated. Yes, I could have done more, a little more, to help.

Rambling here. Just read your post nj and it resonated with me.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH had no tolerance for me triggering and it blew up into a huge, HUGE fight. They'd rushed home to see me, wanted to have a great day with me, and I ruined it and ruined their Daddy-Daughter time. He actually told me he blamed me for the affair, wasn't remorseful at all, and would never forgive me for leaving to go to my dad's last summer (even though he was already 9 months into the affair by that time). At some point, I quit screaming and calmly told him that if he really has no compassion and no remorse, that I was done, and not "move into the spare room" done, but DONE. And I meant it. He said he wasn't talking about this anymore, and whether he was done with the conversation or done with us was up to me.

DH -- read that. Does this sound like a man who's taken responsibility for what he's done? Does this sound like a man who has managed to find his way out of selfishness to connect to the pain he's caused by his actions? NFW.

I take it you're not in counseling, because then he would be able to talk about this stuff without turning pitbull on you. I do think his kindness after this WAS hoovering and rug-sweeping. I think you know this.

Re the attractiveness convo: I don't totally get this. I get the principle behind the 180 -- build yourself up to be happy on your own, be strong. But, frankly, I sometimes wonder if WH partly had an A because I was too "attractive" and he found it threatening. My career has been on an up while his has been volatile. I'm aging nicely. People always tell me how "strong" I am -- I'm independent, don't have a lot of "needs". Etc. I think some of the underlying stuff behind his A was that he wasn't good enough and that defiling the M in this way was just proof positive of what a loser he was. The trigger for the whole thing was probably him finding out about his infertility. (Which his mom made him feel terrible about.) His FOO issues were all about not being "good enough", especially compared to his beautiful, smart sister. He was kind of the dunce in the family (until he got to college, where he performed brilliantly, thus proving everyone completely wrong). This kind of fits into the fact that the OW in many ways resembles his mother.

I'm very lucky in that my WH has never blamed me for the A. I agree with

Often they had extremely unrealistic and immature attitudes as to what marriage and what life should be.

Life is hard, marriage is hard, being a parent is hard.

One of our ongoing struggles is that WH sees dealing with practical crap (AKA life) as such a burden. His increasing willingness to step up and even anticipate things is a big thing for me. I am so frigging TIRED of being the practical person in charge, the disciplinarian, the fixer. The perception that I don't have "needs" is really something he has to get over -- he has to see and feel my vulnerability, and he has to be able to help and support me. (DH, are you listening?)

One of the big turning points for us was a about 5 months post-DD, when WH wanted to go away for a boys' weekend. Totally innocent, I know these guys, FOTM and all that. BUT the previous week I'd received some bad news and started entertaining seriously suicidal thoughts. I shared this with WH and he went on his boys' weekend anyway. He was so used to me taking care of myself that he didn't even consider cancelling. He later said he thought I was trying to punish him by acting up. He "knew" I'd never kill myself. (And he's right -- I would never do that to my kids.)

Well, fuck that shit. Why on earth would I want to stay with a man who's going to abandon me at my moment of need? Who is incapable of pulling me from the brink when I'm at the end of my tether? Whether I really went to the extreme of killing myself or not, my feeling were intense enough that he should have paid attention.

Anyway, this all proved fodder for therapy and he supposedly gets it now.

This has all built up into something of a rant, I'm afraid. I guess I don't feel I need to be more attractive -- I'm plenty damn attractive enough and it's up to him to earn my love back. I suppose I see a tension between the 180/attractiveness thing and the need to show vulnerability so that the WS has to take responsibility/get over him or herself to connect and care for another. They have to stop seeing their BS as an object, a bit player in their little drama, and a person in their own right, someone to whom they have obligations, responsibilities, and love for. The only way to do this is through genuine emotional connection, which is what so many of the LTA WSs are avoiding through their LTAs. To connect, you have to sweep away your own issues about what the other person stands for and look at THEM, on their own terms. I think that is terrifying for so many WSs. End of rant.

[This message edited by Blobette at 9:31 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)]


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1035 | Registered: Aug 2012
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DH: His actions are Hoovering. All this time he has been placing blame on you for his actions and not wanting to take any responsibility. When you finally said "enough" he realized that he pushed too far. Of course he wants you to continue to take the blame.

When your WS continues to show you consistant behavior, then you can start to consider that perhaps he might be waking up. But a few small gestures to keep him cakeeating is not a turning point.

Attractiveness. We are human. We get sick, we have bad hair days, kids have needs, we have to work, the economy gets bad. Life is hard.

As a married couple we should work together and sometimes we lose our way. Our WS decided to have an affair than to try to fix the marriage or bridge the gaps.

NPD tells me how unhappy he was in the M. Of course it was all my fault. He will claim he did everything to make me happy , except of course to be faithful throughout our M.
He gets mad whenever I talk about committment as though it's a foreign concept to him. He tells me he doesn't want to be in a cage and doesn't want anyone to tell him what to do.

He spins his wheels with all kinds of double talk.

Was I always attractive? As much as I could be. I did gain weight the past few years but the A started when I looked my best and looked great for many years.

Being attractive is respecting others AND having self respect and expecting others to respect you back.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blobbette- I agree
You are and were very attractive in so many ways.
Me too.
My FWH felt inadequate as well.
Hence the drinking and the LTA.
He always thought of me as being incredibly strong and was shocked at how I reacted after d day, how I totally fell apart.
He has been very attentive to my needs ever since.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

calling on Dip and others.
I need to replace my grill and am looking for recommendations Something that does steaks, chicken, fish, and vegetables to a tasty delight

Just looking for good food.!

H&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
kalamity
♀ Member
Member # 21802
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I had time to really read all the posts here. Just from a quick scan, there appear to be some really great discussions going on! Quick review for those who are new since I've been away. H had 22+ yr affair with MOW (old girlfriend). The A ended the day before what would have been our 25th anniversary. Today would be our 30th Anniversary. Just want to know how others who are reconciling deal with that. We really are doing well. H is more relaxed, happier, truly comfortable in his own skin for the first time in his life. That certainly makes our relationship more fulfilling. HOWEVER...I still can't get past the belief that marriage vows cannot be patched or repaired; once broken, always broken. I'm OK with continuing to have a great relationship without feeling married. H feels differently and is quite sullen that I'm not into celebrating this day. Advice?


When it feels like your life is falling apart, perhaps it is falling in place.

BS(me)-56
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R


Posts: 104 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Nebraska
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopeandchange - as a post DDay present to myself I decided to buy myself a Bradley smoker.

I know you were asking about grills but getting a smoker is a lot of fun too. If you are a true smoke authentic you may not want the Bradley one but I have been loving using it. The Bradley one that I got is very easy to use, you use their bisquettes which makes it easy to load up and let it go. I don't have to be watching it constantly and can run around and do stuff while it slow cooks my meal to perfection. I've used it for ribs, chicken, beef tenderloin, brisket, pulled pork so far. Planning to smoke the thanksgiving day turkey in it this fall.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, Kalamity.
When I was trying to R, XWH was also very into the wedding anniversary (calling it "a sacred day" a-hem... sorry...) and insisted on making a big stinkin' deal out of the date. I dealt with it by acknowledging that he was extremely relieved that there was still a marriage to celebrate, and this was his way of proving his re-dedication to the marriage. Then I ignored the date and just worked to enjoy whatever festive event he planned. It worked twice. By the third time, we were D so it was no longer a problem for me.

As to the grill/smoker issue, I don't own either, so I would be an ideal judge of which thing makes the best ribs. Ya'll just tell when the cook off will happen and I'll bring my red-checked napkin and meet you there.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kalamity
We really are doing well.

What an inspiring post! Thank you for sharing.

Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease!

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
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