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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 32
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn:

i respectfully disagree...the whole weakness thing as well as the being attractive thing....

i do believe that we teach people how to treat us, i also believe that under different circumstances we accept certain behaviors because we cannot change them and we choose whether or not we want to keep our families together....

to not accept certain behaviors would be ending a marriage.....and one needs to decide if its worth the marriage.....

then there is infidelity...which is not just a behavior, its more then a behavior...its a conscious choice made on the part of the ws to NOT CHOOSE the marriage, and in our cases to NOT CHOOSE the marriage, year after year after year.....its the ws who chooses to run the risk of losing the marriage because not too many spouses are wiling participants for their ws's to carry on in their affairs...

weakness....no my friend, more like tolerance for certain behaviors, the price to keep a family intact

as for attractiveness: a hell to the no on that one....there are many of us who were the spouse who loved unconditionally, were the spouse who did it all, were the spouse who put their spouse above themselves...i don't care how attractive you are its all about the weakness in the ws, the ws has issues and CHOOSES to address those issues by choosing infidelity, choosing to put themselves first, choosing their affairs over their spouses, their families and for some their jobs too.....if it were all about attractiveness i would have cheated years upon years ago, but it was not in ME....it was in pfm as it was in your ws, and eveyone elses ws....that is 100% on the ws, no matter the state of the marriage the ws has no business CHOOSING to cheat!!!


h&c: i am sorry that your wife has failed you and happy that now you can move forward with a clear head....i for one hated that limbo state.....just knowing one way or the other is a sense of peace.

WARNING: stop reading here...major rant ahead....


in the miracle household.....pfm continues to do stupid really well....and i try daily not to lose it, take a step back and let whatever new stunt, new words, new actions pass....the issue...sometimes the actions don't pass as quickly as they entered.....and i hate that i still live with secrets....

my kids are planning to go to a water park with my friend, this friend is someone pfm hit upon, thats actually how she ended up in our lives...he hit on her, she blew him off, believed his lies (that he never did anything like that before) and they became "buddies"...and then he introduced her to the rest of us and we love her and her kids.....i found out about him hittin on her shortly after d-day...welll anyway...last year this came up and i was not happy so he backed out...she is a married a woman and her husband is not going....so he has no business going....well it came up this year and of course he is inviting himself on the trip and i can't tell my kids why....it would hurt them to know how this woman came into our lives and it has nothing to do with the wman and everything to do with their dad, asshole that he is!!!!

anyways.....i have decided not to say anything because last year my dd got mad that i wasn't happy about it and her dad backed out...ironic...anyways its just not worth it....the audacity of him though is astounding...and out the side of his mouth he keeps asking..."is there anything i can do for us to be able to reconcile"

LIKE HELLO ASSHOLE.....YOU HAVE HAD THE SAME LIST FROM D-DAY AND YOU KEEP CHOOSING NOT TO MEET MY POST D-DAY REQUIREMENTS....WHY THE HELL DO YOU KEEP ASKING...AND BETTER YET YOU ARE OR WERE ONCE ON SI, YOU KNOW THE DRILL, YOU KNOW HOW TO POST...TAKE THE FUCKING INITIATIVE.......AND SHOW ME....AND AT THIS POINT EVEN IF YOU FINALLY CHOOSE TO SHOW ME, ITS TO FUCKING LATE, ......AND ITS BEEN 4 1/2 YEARS....ITS TIME TO JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET ME BE AND MOVE ON.....

ok, rant over

i feel so much better

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, August 7th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle.. thanks!

i for one hated that limbo state.....just knowing one way or the other is a sense of peace.

Yes, the uncertainty is hard, very hard. I view the (negative) outcome as far worse than the uncertainty.

I am in a much better place today, looking forward to the joys of life with or without my wife. That is how I began to move forward.

The loss of what was and what could have been will always be there in some form and it need not reduce the enjoyment of today and tommorrow.

miracle.. oh my, what an incredible story! Though, I would have a hard time beliving they were just "buddies". I have always been cyncal and post DDay I have also become suspicious of everything someone says or does. Too bad.

Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease!

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, August 7th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I find the conversation of strength versus weakness an interesting one. Is a BS strong and brave because they are fighting for their marriage and family? Or are they weak for putting up with any of the multitude examples of horrific treatment we have seen just on this board alone?

I think perhaps the answer is both. I know for me personally, there are days I feel like a warrior, battling for the preservation of all that is precious to my DD and me, all that was once precious to my WH. Other days, I feel like I am allowing myself to be a victim - Please, sir, may I have another? I believe there may be a small shard of my soul you haven't crushed yet.

If I keep hanging on and in the end we R and get back on track for our happily ever after, then I will look back and pat myself on the back for being so strong and not giving up. On the other hand, if I keep hanging on and in the end I am starting my life over without him, I will be royally pissed at myself for being so weak that I allowed myself to be treated so poorly for so long.

WH has been playing mind games. He will tell me he has 'zero compassion' for me, then the same afternoon will buy me Starbucks and Ben and Jerry's because he was 'thinking of me and knew I'd like it.' He tells me he's not trying to save our marriage right now, then will talk about buying a new house together. He refuses me any kind of affection or intimacy, but offered to take me and DD on vacation for my birthday (which I am sure will be a huge trigger day for me).

Why? Is it malicious? To try and keep me off balance, give me just enough so I don't move out and he doesn't have to pay me or lose time with DD? Or is it unintentional - perhaps he is genuinely confused and it comes through in his actions. I have no idea.

((Miracle)) - Your WH does indeed do stupid well, as you say. Did you verbalize any of your rant to him? Do you think it would make a difference if you did?

h&c - You sound at peace. Glad to hear it. :)


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
TrustGone
♀ Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, August 7th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((H&C)))

I am sorry that your WW has decided to D rather than R. I know that is not what you wanted. IWAM is right..Living in limbo is hell. I know you feel right now that you would rather be in limbo than to D, but that will eventually change. It takes time to let go and accept that the marriage is over. Your WW does not have the strength that it would take to R the marriage. She checked out a long time ago and it will take you a while to catch up. One day you will be so thankful that you no longer have to deal with her brokeness and the pain of her infedelity. It takes time to get to the indiffernce stage, but it really is a good place to be. It helps to go NC except for kids and finances, and to start focusing on you. It sounds like you are ready to start moving forward with your life. In a few years you will look back and ask yourself.."What the hell was I thinking".

I have never regretted divorcing XWH#1. He was a mess and continues to be a mess. None of his family will have anything to do with him anymore. I actually feel sorry for him, but it is the life he choose. Hopefully my son will someday see him for what he is. I was happy to hear that my son will be going to Japan (in the military) for two years. Hopefully it will help him to see how disfunctional his dad really is once he is away from him for awhile. We shall see. Anyway, hang in there. It does get better.

(((IWAM)))
Why doesn't this friend tell pfm that she is not comfortable with him going since her husband will not be there? He is also not a friend of their marriage if he hit on her and that's what she needs to tell him. I know it might be a little awkward to say that to him but I know I wouldn't want him going with me if he hit on me before. If nothing else she can blame it on her husband and say he is not comfortable with him going. Does her husband even know he hit on her? I think it is strange that she would allow him to go after what he did before.


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
Walking
♀ Member
Member # 40102
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So hi. I am new here, I found out a few weeks ago about my husbands long term affair. He was outed by the other woman who called multiple times and then walked in the house to confront me. 2 years if I believe him, 3 years if I believe her. My husband is out of the house. He gave a few half hearted I'm sorrys on d day. He told our kids (who were in the same room when the crazy other woman walked in the house to confront me) that he loves them and me and wants to stay together as a family.

I am so angry. What a betrayal, what an enormous series of lies. I keep thinking of missed birthdays and anniversaries chalked up to work travel and I am realizing he was with her on our special days. I am thinking of the lack of sex and physical closeness over the last couple years, we are middle aged, I thought he was tired or possibly experiencing some age related issues in that department, no, it turns out he was getting it else where. On dday, my husband said he wanted to stay together because of the kids, and because of our shared history. In the few weeks we have been apart we have not talked, we have only communicated about finances and child issues. I have kept it all business, he has tried to be funny or familiar in his communications. Here are my issues, first if he wants to save this marriage, where are the freakin grand gestures? He seems to be trying to figure out if I have contacted a lawyer, but has not since dday said he loves us, begged to come back, sent flowers. Apathy does not equal trying to save the marriage to me, besides, i now know the last few years, and maybe longer it turns out I have been married to a liar, a big liar. Why should I believe anything he did/said on d day. How does anyone married to a long term cheater take their word for anything ever? He seemed to be very angry with the OW since she outed him and since she also told his Mom and Dad(who also have not called me, wtf)? We have been married 18 years. So my question for all you lovely people, when you are married to a professional liar such as we have been how do you know what it real and what is just another lie thrown out there? It turns out my bs meter is broken and my wh is not doing enough groveling, confessing, professing his love to offer me any reassurance of his goals. I feel paralyzed. Help.


Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Midwest
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why? Is it malicious?

What does he say when you ask him about this DH? We can all guess (and I have a suspicion) at the meaning, but he either knows or should.

Walking,
Welcome, I am so sorry that you have a reason to be here. SI is a wondrous place, and LTA is a very special part of it.

...he wanted to stay together because of the kids, and because of our shared history.

Yea, I initially got this from FWW too. As I came out of my initial shock and numbness I realized if we were going to stay together I wanted a healthy and vibrant M, not just inertia. It is complicated with children, mortgages, jobs, and such. I agree that he should want YOU and rediscovering his love for YOU as a requirement to consider R.

Do not be in a rush to make a decision about your future. Instead, I encourage you to give yourself time to begin to heal, or at least get to acceptance about your WH's A. If the WS is NC with AP, and you feel reasonably safe in the M, then I think that between dday and R or D it is useful to have a period of “not divorcing” where you are staying in the M and watching, healing, but not committed to R or D. I found an IC was very helpful to me during this time in processing through my feelings after dday and doing some values clarification re: my M. Use the time while you are working on your healing to visit with a couple of attorneys to see what you need to know if you decide to D. Look at your finances and see what you can do to shore them up. Expand your social network if you can to create more friends for support and recreation independent of your WH.

...when you are married to a professional liar such as we have been how do you know what it real and what is just another lie thrown out there?

Sustained actions over time, a lot of time. Words mean little to nothing to me. I am looking for sustained and increasingly more positive behavior. Initially I looked month to month, now I am looking over years.

It is my opinion after my own dday and participating on SI that the WS in a LTA is a special type of WS. To sustain an A for so long without it bubbling over into lurrve and leaving to be with their soul mate is a sign that the WS is damaged in a way that affects relationships. There is an absence of emotional intimacy, walls kept up to keep others, even the spouse and AP at a distance. This is in addition to al of the “normal” WS compartmentalizing, projecting and blame shifting, etc. Especially in the aftermath of a LTA dday the WS must identify, own, and make progress on addressing their issues before R is really possible.

I found the book Sexual Detours by Holly Hines to be especially helpful in understanding the dynamics behind my FWW’s A. Best wishes to you, others will be by.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:51 AM, August 8th (Thursday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ATS - I did ask him, and he said he is just taking things day by day, which to me was a non-answer. He wants me to subscribe to the rug-sweeping philosophy - focus on other things and eventually the M will get better on its own, which I simply can't do when I have no confidence that he has actually gone NC with her. When I get upset or trigger, he loses his temper, goes off and says things he later recants - like the 'zero compassion' remark.


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Walking - so sorry you find yourself here. I think that, while grand gestures may be nice, they are not going to be what truly shows you your WS is remorseful. You need consistent behavior change for that.

The anger you are feeling is natural, as is the distrust. The best advice I have been given on this site is to focus on yourself, which for some of us is a difficult concept. Put yourself in charge of your own healing. Be kind to yourself, pamper yourself even. Instead of being sad he didn't by you flowers, buy yourself flowers. Use this time as a period of self discovery. Are there things about yourself you need to work on? How about things you've always wanted to do but haven't? Now is the perfect time for that. Read. Exercise. Eat. Play in the rain with your kids. ((Hugs))


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C.. It is a celebration for you! You stand tough and your good will come. What I have learned about life.. Life is not fair. This is not for only you but us all. Some have more unfair things happen than others.

Unfairness comes.. It continues for those who put up with addicted people, laziness, people who use powerful mean ugly words in attempt to get your reactions, controlling people, people who do unloving things to us…

The happy people do not allow others in there circle who have destructive behaviors.

Yes, Iwant.. you do teach people. I gave you my story about my neighbor allow there child to roam the neighborhood doing destructive behaviors and risk to his own life. For 2 years, as much as I hate to say it.. Even about myself. I felt sorry for that autistic child. I let him barge in on my son graduation party and invade my privacy, I let him pick up my dog with no consequences, I let him tell my friend he was going to kill his parents. I was weak. No longer will I be that man. His parent “let me have it” with the most unkind words. His Parents tried hard to push me back in my hole so they could have it there way washing there hands of their responsibility. I did not go into my hole this time. I did what I had to do. They can now make the choice to protect their child or not. They are because I notice a man now chaperones this autistic child. If they did not, I was going to get the state involved and that was all I could do. If the State did nothing, then I just watch and let this autistic child get hit by car, or shot when he enters someone’s house. At that point, will the parent feel enough guilt and remorse to change future behaviors? Maybe. But my mind is free… I did what I needed to do.

Iwant.. You make pfm no longer part of your world you might be surprised what peace you end up with. You have taken all the right steps to this point in your life.. take the leap of faith! You make the choice to end it with pfm…do stuff with your just your kids.. and pfm does stuff on his own with his kids, you won’t be able to control what he does with him and stop trying to do such. Your tough job will be to point out bad behaviors your H obviously will and has taught your kids so they don’t behave that way.. it is part of him and nothing you can do to change that. See, I agree you can teach people but some people do not reach a point where they change. Nothing you can do about it. pfm cannot learn right now. He is not capable. Fact is.. he may never be able to learn. Some people are just that stubborn.


DecimatedHeart

Is a BS strong and brave because they are fighting for their marriage and family?

IMO.. it depends on the fight. You fight with “I am going to be most attractive first” I am going to learn everything I need to know about being attractive. Attractive can mean conflict.. it can mean doing nice loving things. It can mean doing loving things when you are not even in the loving mood.

Let me share something going on with me right now.. So my W was telling me a new single woman at her work wants to go out and have drinks with co-workers both men and woman. How you say things is that important.. how you behave is that important. If she goes.. I am going to fire a warning shot. Sure it is a bit scary.. but as I do these kinds of things I am about to say.. SHE reacts. I make her react. It is good for our M and relationship.

Me, “Honey, you can go out with your new friend with the men from your office all you want and maybe it’s good to go every once in a blue moon.. it is your life. Given what we have been through, should I be concerned? As a reminder to you, please have the courage to tell me when you begin to have feelings for another so we can both avoid unnecessary pain.” Then I say nothing more.. I can listen to all her defensiveness.. all her excuses.. reasons for needing drinks with co-workers. If she wants to start this again, I am ok with with it… She will not get my blessings. Yes, this is a conflict and yes this is fighting for my marriage and family. I catch her in a lie.. She will feel the full wrath of my NON Blessings. I take them away.

I can also say my fight for my M and family is with my own feelings of accepting the past hurt and pain.. my feelings of anger.. due to what happened to me years ago. That is my fight, not my W’s. But if she wants to behave in a way to risk my future feelings.. I cannot change that. I am not going to worry about it..or it will be very minimal. I will find a woman who wants and is attracted to my blessings. And my family will still be my family.. just without my wife in it. And I don’t care if I am 80 years old.

Humans fall into the romance trap.. You, me and many others who’s spouses had LTA may have had the morality, the will, the power inside ourselves to avoid situations that would lead us to our own failings. That is something good about US. We are those kinds of people. But many people are not. We married these kinds of people. A LTA is not mistake. It is not like falling into lust one night or even a few months. Most important to discover is… what was it was about US… What was it about me where I could not see my spouse not loving me? and believe me, when anyone is in an affair.. they are not loving you the way it is supposed to be. We must now learn what complete love is.. what mature love is.. and be keenly aware in all situation when we are not being loved.. and we must behave the same FIRST. Only then can you 100% know bad behaviors and conflict them.

Walking..
You are going to be fine.. Here are my thoughts.
“My husband is out of the house.” Good, if that is his choice. A weak man leaves. You seek a strong man.. not a wimp. Why are you attracted to such a bad man?
“He gave a few half hearted I'm sorrys on d day.” He is a scared man.. he cannot express his emotions nor wants too.. he cannot lead his woman because he has been feminized by society or his parents.
“I am so angry.” Yes you are and should be.
“I am thinking of the lack of sex and physical closeness over the last couple years,”.. Yes, I get it. ME TOO.. I failed myself by doing nothing about it.. and will never again be this kind of person. Sex is far different to a man vs a woman. The man must do certain things to fight this and a woman must do certain things. So now you are very aware and never again let it happen.
“I have kept it all business” Good.. the only way you should EVER accept him back in your world if he seeks counseling on his own.. he owns up to his failures.. He tells you all you need to get it off both chest… He says he is going to change.. he apologizes to you from the deepest part of his heart.. then when you do let him back.. with time, YOU SEE IT. It does not matter what he feels about the OW.. it matters what he does to YOU. Let me tell you something you will need to accept that is most hard. Most men in LTA do have fond memories and liked what they did. You will need to develop a “so what”.. it just doesn’t matter kind of feelings. Do YOU still think about and like what an old boyfriend and the things YOU did together? maybe you think about those good things right? But I am sure there are some bad things too. It take a long time to have these feelings of SO WHAT.. it took me YEARS.. not months. And if I want, I can take my mind back to the anger. I choose not got go there.

So my question for all you lovely people, when you are married to a professional liar such as we have been how do you know what it real and what is just another lie thrown out there? It turns out my bs meter is broken and my wh is not doing enough groveling, confessing, professing his love to offer me any reassurance of his goals. I feel paralyzed.

You sound like a super fine woman to me… other than you feel paralyzed. So do something about feeling paralyzed..

OK so he is not doing enough. That is up to him.
Words to say.. One liners are good.. the theme if you can get what I say…

“I don’t feel safe…I cannot be with and will not be with a man who cannot make me feel safe. That would make me a weak woman. It is not up to me to tell you how to get out of the mess you have made. No, I don’t want to end our M, but at this time, it appears too me I must do things to protect myself and give me peace given your current behavior”

“you can go learn what it means to be a masculine man, honest man, loving man.. or not. It is your choice. I must see it because I am changing myself to figure out what I need to do to be much stronger, much more attractive.. so when I enter into my new beginnings.. I pick my next partner who won’t dare fail me. I have some work to do…Maybe you should change the way you think Mr. STBXH”

just a few ideas.. but the message is.. I am changing to be a far better woman.. It is up to you to want to change on your own and prove it to me.. because I eliminate misery in my life and the center of my misery is YOU. So, what is it you do to end my misery.. to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt… because I know misery is part of life but I do something about it.

Then work on yourself for awhile.. what was it about me.. OK so you admit lack of romance.. investigate what made you be that kind of woman… You know deep inside.. I will say it is far more harder in general for most woman to keep romance up verses a man. I would not beat yourself up over this.. A strong man, a wise man, can and does lead his woman into being a very sexual. If he fails, that falls on him. And it is not easy.

It’s ok to take some things slowly.. It takes 3 months for people to change on average.. IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE…


NJGal.. My wife called me her “rock” not long ago. I think it was gotta’s H saying he was her “rock?” When my wife told me that. .I laughed. It was funny because and I was shocked to here it… Behaving like a rock verse saying you are a rock.. I never once thought of myself as a rock. In fact, I am no rock.. the lord is my rock.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:40 AM, August 8th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

... he is just taking things day by day, which to me was a non-answer.

It is an answer. He is avoiding conflict. He is not owning and addressing his issues and responsibility.

I appreciate that you cannot feel safe with him if NC is uncertain and after betraying you he now shows no commitment, or even a desire for a commitment with you.

DH, from an earlier post of yours:

....that I allowed myself to be treated so poorly for so long.

Prior to dday I allowed myself to be treated poorly for years, a decade. After dday I allowed myself to be treated poorly for months as I came out of the shock. Now I am stronger, unafraid of conflict, and certain of MY happy future. I do not allow myself to be treated poorly. I may tolerate some poor treatment while I make a course adjustment on our relationship.

FWW had many issues to address, and they could not all be accomplished at once. I may tolerate some poor treatment B & C if FWW is earnestly working on correcting poor treatment A, but my expectation is that eventually (and timely) FWW will work on B & C too.

tryn,

What was it about me where I could not see my spouse not loving me?

I know my answer to that, and it was one of the most important parts of my healing when I owned it. I enabled FWW for so long. I deserved better treatment for most of my M, but I did not ask for it, my bad. I know now, and I am very insistent on what I want. As I have healed and become a healthier person and spouse, I provide a much clearer mirror for FWW to see herself reflected in, my being healthier helps her to heal. That was my failure to her for much of our M.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Walking
♀ Member
Member # 40102
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Atsenaotie, Decimated Heart, and Trynhard: Thank you so much for your considered advice, and the action items, its a lot to absorb but wow, good mind blowing stuff there. Wow.

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Midwest
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Walking: Welcome to our little corner of SI. It takes a long time to deal with an LTA. Give yourself some time, and focus on your healing. That is the main key.

DH: Your WH wants rugsweeping. He doesn't want to deal with the aftermath of the mess he caused and whatever aftermath there is, he will want to blame you for it. DO NOT TAKE THE BLAME!!!

Some of things you are saying that he is doing might be out of guilt. He knows you are a good woman, perhaps he doesn't know what he wants, but at this point you have to decide what YOU want. I know that for far too long I was waiting to make MY decision based on what NPD was going to do or decide. Now, I have to focus on what I want, not what he wants. It's a very difficult thing to do.

Miracle: I remember pfm doing this last year. He doesn't get it and never will. All you can say is that you think it's inappropriate for the kids, especially since they now know and let go. I also agree with Trust that your friend should just tell pfm that it is inappropriate for her to go with him.

H&C: I'm sorry that your WW wants the D. I do understand what you are saying that being in limbo can be less scary than actually going through the D. I've been there for far too long myself, but I'm realizing that I have not felt safe and that feeling is one of the main roots of my unhappiness. I've put my faith in NPD to feel safe, and it's not there and never will be.

Never will be......now that's the real scary thing.

I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Anticipating that something I will do or say will get him upset and then the silent treatment or withdrawal of attention etc.

I can't walk on eggshells no matter how "normal" we can act.

Trust: Could you give more concrete examples of what you mean by bringing on conflict? For far too long, I've put up with a lot of bad behavior and I guess was afraid to bring it up for fear of the consequences. Especially when NPD would twist and turn my words and the conversation to the point that I felt like I was the one who was crazy and wrong. <sigh>

Ats: I love your posts. They are so very, very helpful to me. Your posts encourage me to keep working to heal myself and no longer tolerate bad behavior and work on me.

Love to all.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn,

What was it about me where I could not see my spouse not loving me?

I know my answer to that, and it was one of the most important parts of my healing when I owned it. I enabled FWW for so long. I deserved better treatment for most of my M, but I did not ask for it, my bad. I know now, and I am very insistent on what I want. As I have healed and become a healthier person and spouse, I provide a much clearer mirror for FWW to see herself reflected in, my being healthier helps her to heal. That was my failure to her for much of our M.

Same for me..Perfect words.. I enabled FWW.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, August 8th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Walking.. I am so sorry. The betrayal is awful, unbeliveable, incomprehensible. The person you gave your best and they in turn gave you the worst.

I have been married to a liar, a big liar. Why should I believe anything he did/said on d day. How does anyone married to a long term cheater take their word for anything ever?

If he begins to show remorse through his words and actions AND sustains them over a lengthy period of time (equal to or greater than the length of the LTA) then you will probably begin to develop trust again. Unfortuantely, IMHO there will never be the complete and unconditional trust we once gave our WS.

I belive that you are doing the best thing now with limited contact as he is not pulling out the stops to show remorse and a desire to save the marriage.


WH has been playing mind games. He will tell me he has 'zero compassion' for me, then the same afternoon will buy me Starbucks and Ben and Jerry's because he was 'thinking of me and knew I'd like it.' He tells me he's not trying to save our marriage right now, then will talk about buying a new house together. He refuses me any kind of affection or intimacy, but offered to take me and DD on vacation for my birthday (which I am sure will be a huge trigger day for me).

Why? Is it malicious? To try and keep me off balance, give me just enough so I don't move out and he doesn't have to pay me or lose time with DD? Or is it unintentional - perhaps he is genuinely confused and it comes through in his actions. I have no idea.


DH.. IMHO all of the above!

The behaviour is real. I do not belive it is intentional (consciously planned). It does keep you off balance. It is negative and destructive. And I do not think the WS can even comprehend what they are doing even if it were pointed out to them.

Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease!

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, August 9th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now that my eyes are wide open and I have smashed the rose colored glasses I keep seeing more and more things, and it's sad, so sad,

Why did we put up with so much? I don't think it was because we were weak. I think it was the opposite, we were strong. We took on more responsibility for the marriage, were trying to be understanding and excuse bad behavior because "they're tired, they're stressed, they had a bad day, etc"

Maybe we weren't strong enough for ourselves to say "Hey!! You may be tired,etc, but it's no excuse for bad behavior"

Or maybe, too like with my xWH#1, I felt a deep down gut feeling that if I stood up and said "stop!!!" he would leave, and it's actually what ended up happening. But he decided to have an exit affair.

I think what Tryn is saying, that attractive people don't put up with crap and inappropriate behavior.

Why is it that I can say to my sons if they talk back to me or are speaking to me in a nasty tone that I can say, "hey, I understand you are tired or hungry, etc, but it doesn't give you an excuse to talk to me that way. "
But somehow we don't do that with our spouses?

I have to learn to let the past go. I know that lots of times when I don't have the answers, I make some excuse up that allows me to deal with it. Stupid me asked NPD if the reason he didn't tell me all those years was because he didn't want to lose me, his answer was, "No, I wasn't afraid I'd lose you. I didn't think you'd leave, but you'd make my life miserable"

Slap

Me: "if you told me after OC#1, do you think that the others wouldn't have happened?"
NPD: "no, they were meant to be. God wanted it that way"

Slap

I have to detach and not try to make sense of anything or give him excuses.

Not one shred of remorse, all I ever got once was that he was sorry I got hurt, but not sorry about the whole thing.

As my xWH#1 said wisely a long time ago:

"You can't analyze stupidity"

NPD is here for another week. It's like that emotional abuse article, everything can seem good and nice and BAM some behavior that's like a punch in the gut happens.

The good does not outweigh the bad. And all the time the good is happening, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. Me to say or do something he doesn't like and then I accept that it's my fault.

At least I'm starting to feel a bit stronger. I'm starting to feel that although I am not perfect, I can change some things about myself for me.

I'm standing at the precipice and trying to decide if I should jump, swim across, or walk down to a bridge I see in the distance.
<sigh>



Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, August 9th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm standing at the precipice and trying to decide if I should jump, swim across, or walk down to a bridge I see in the distance
Here's where our minds play tricks on us. There is no precipice, there is no ledge, there is no cliff, there is no gaping chasm between you and the rest of your life. You just have to put one foot forward and do it.

The analogy that worked for me was I thought I was standing on the edge of a cliff and I was scared of falling but then I loooked down and realized I was just standing on the curb and just needed to step out and walk towards my new life. No jumping needed at all. Keep at it Honest, i'm still pulling for you!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, August 9th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For a moment of inappropriate humor...

There is no precipice, there is no ledge, there is no cliff, there is no gaping chasm between you and the rest of your life. You just have to put one foot forward and do it.

Did anyone else get Indiana Jones stuck in their head while reading this?

I will give a serious, non-alcohol induced response tomorrow.

Love to you all.


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
Walking
♀ Member
Member # 40102
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, August 10th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks h&c and honest for chiming in as well. I keep coming back to the words of wisdom you all have left for me and rereading them. I'm grappling a bit with the fact that every story, every gift, every holiday, every memory from the last 3 years is now so tainted. Also, that my husband at times not only put the other woman before me, but also before his children. I love the idea of being in a place called not divorcing. I am not ready for reconciliation, and my husband certainly is not. That said, making snap decisions that would impact an entire family and especially the kids is not my style. H-ll if he can fake for 3 years in this marriage for selfish reasons, I can fake it for a while for unselfish reasons I guess. Although with such limited contact it certainly does not feel like much of a marriage and so far he is not even reaching out much to the kids, much less me, although he has been pretty absent since the affair began 3 years ago to all of us in retrospect (so much so that the kids don't seem to notice). I understand what you are all saying about the grand gesture being shallow and meaningless, but it would be something other than this covert need to know basis relationship we are currently having. It would be an indicator of some sort. I know, I know, back to taking care of me and not dwelling on whats his name. Now if I could just sleep through the night.

I have the book atsenotie recommended on order. Hopefully it will help me gain strength for myself rather then dwelling on reading the tea leaves of my husbands obscure behavior and trying to unravel exactly how much of this marriage is a lie.


Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Midwest
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, August 10th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopefully it will help me gain strength for myself rather then dwelling on reading the tea leaves of my husbands obscure behavior and trying to unravel exactly how much of this marriage is a lie.

Walking: I love how you put this. It is very hard not to always be looking at what the WS is doing. I think a lot of us wonder if we should make any effort for R if the WS does not seem to be doing anything. It is very difficult.
But the advice to work on you and try to heal yourself is essential. After 4 years I'm finally trying to concentrate on that.

Give yourself some time. The decision to "not divorce" is a decision, but also has its challenges. This is the time to heal yourself.

DH: Lol, about Indiana Jones. I hope you are doing better.

7yrs: thank you. I think you are right, the chasm may not be as big as I think, but it a chasm for me because of mental and emotional reasons.

NPD tells me that since I won't go back to live overseas, OW and OC's will be staying with him in MY house over there while he is there. He tells me it's not fair that he does not enjoy that house because I refuse to go back to live there. Does he want me to just stay there by himself or would I rather that he marry someone else to stay with him there so OW and OC's don't stay there?

SLAP

I don't want to slap back. It just gets to be a boxing match with a black belt. But I don't have to put up with this shit anymore.

I'm tired of balancing everything, I'm broken hearted and need to find my big girl panties and so enough!!

<sigh>


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, August 10th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Keep at it Honest, i'm still pulling for you!

me too!!!

I love the idea of being in a place called not divorcing

Walking.. yes, changes will have major long term consequences and taking some time to sort through your choices can be a very good thing. You sound like someone with lots of wisdom.

Post DDay, a good night's rest did not come easily for me. I did not sleep at all for the first two days and then the nightmares followed limiting my rest. I just worked through this by getting up when I woke up and dragging myself through the day no matter how exhausted. It helped to keep physically busy.

"not divorcing" can be hard, very hard. So be prepared and work on taking care of yourself.

h&c land
I saw my optamologist for the first time in five years.
I replaced my eyeglasses which I lost over a year ago. (they help me enjoy events such as plays and baseball games though not much else)
I joined a gym this week and began twice weekly work outs.
I successfully completed a major project at work.
I have resumed a focus on investing (restarted a year ago and am continuing to restore / improve upong my skills). This is something that I did very well before the M and stopped early on in the M due to some losses and scrutiny from my W. It was hard to be effective and successful when you decisions (the failures) are second guessed and create doubts.
I started a new book which has given some very useful insights that continues the healing process.

So, like miracle, I am taking my life back one step at a time! and enjoying everything life has to offer.

Wishing all a great, great weekend. Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease!

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

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