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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 32
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MCJack-
I agree.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, July 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trust -
I also put up with a lot of bad behavior throughout my marriage.

I am an ACOA (adult child of an alcoholic) and perhaps that made me someone that did not have high expectations for myself and made me tolerate a lot of disrespectful behavior.

D-day was a wake up call for my FWH but it was also a wake up call for me as well.

I now have very expectations for my FWH and my marriage.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Peace comes with decisions... My W wants a D, I give it to her on my timeline which for me would be ASAP... Not hers. She doesn't want to love me, I cannot change it... I move on without...

Strength and courage...


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryin.. good to hear from you!

Peace comes with decisions...

Absolutely! Thoughtful choices - no regrets.

My W wants a D, I give it to her on my timeline which for me would be ASAP...

If only life were so simple, so clear cut. My W has an A and showed little interest in me during her A. I find out and she says she wants to fix it. My W wants a D, wants to stay in our house, stay with the kids, work part time, and have me support her. I said NO! My wife wants a D. I draft the agrrement and then does not take it to her lawyer.

My W has told me many things and a few weeks later denies saying them. My W struggles with her choices, past and present.

If it were so clear cut, all BS would file for D on DDay plus one.

She doesn't want to love me, I cannot change it... I move on without...

Absolutely! Can my W recover from her choice to A, return to the M and love me as her husband? For now, it is mixed with no absolute yes or no. It will have to change soon to a resounding yes or it will become time for me to move on.

Tryin.. thanks for your thoughts.

Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If it were so clear cut, all BS would file for D on DDay plus one.

Good point H&C.

Also, at some point we become responsible for our spouse in society's eyes. I can afford to have my W live in my house, but I cannot afford another house for my W to live in.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If it were so clear cut, all BS would file for D on DDay plus one.

...Or forgive on DDay plus one.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, July 26th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can forgive on dday + 1, but it many instances I have seen on SI, includingf my own, the WS would not have initiated the self-work necessary without the (negative) incentive. Sure, the FWS may start to do the work for themselves after they have started, but initially many seem to take the position of "nothing to see here sir, move along..."


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, July 28th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If it were so clear cut, all BS would file for D on DDay plus one.

This is so true. I think on DDay, so many of us can't see the forest for the trees. We get caught up in a lot of details.

Also, too, D is a big step and a big change overall, in finances, lifestyle, losing friends, losing in-laws (which can be good or bad), kid problems etc. It's not like we were dating and can make a clean break.

Trust: I am so very happy to hear your good news. Does your doctor suggest any ways to keep you liver as healthy as possible , such as a particular diet?
Focus on you and your healing. Your WH is selfish. He could have taken off a day or a few hours to be with you, no excuses. There are sacrifices that one makes in a marriage and you should take care of each other.

Miracle: Congratulations on the new job!! Wonderful news!

Ats: great posts!!

I agree with the idea that if stays in a sitch with open eyes and no expectations if one fully CHOOSES to do so it can be fine. But the problem with that, is that it's too easy to get false hope. Things seem to be going fine, and one starts to think it's ok. It almost becomes rugsweeping without us realizing it. We have to be fully aware of what the real sitch is.

For me, I have become caught up in the false expectations and hope. I get "hoovered" in again and again because I want to believe it sooooo badly. But as the article on emotional abuse said, it's like being in a physically abusive situation, weeks, months can go by when everything is fine and BAM out of the blue you get hit in the face. Are the good times worth that? When you are emotionally abused, it's similar. Everything is going fine, and an insidious remark, some selfish act and then you get blamed for it, like the abuser says that "you deserve it or if you didn't do x, I wouldn't have hit you."

Keep your eyes open.

It's hard when they seem nice most of the time. It's hard to be in limbo.

NPD has been paying for and fixing some things around the house and has gone with me to trade in our car for a better one. I keep thinking am I selling my soul for this?
Then when we were sitting in the car dealer talking, NPD looks at me and says once again about how the dentist has to fix my bridge to make it look better so it won't be so noticeable, it feels like a slap. I realize that one's spouse is sometimes the only one to tell you personal things like that, like your breath smells, or your fly is open, etc, but he's told me this before over and over. It makes me self conscious (and I have dental appointments for it already!)

Then I realize that NPD often does things like that, I'm in a good mood, and he gives me some little zing like that out of the blue and then accuses me of not being happy or being too sensitive, etc.

This is just a little example of things I'm becoming more aware of.

Perhaps this is the hard thing too, a lot of BS's were blindsided, thinking the M was OK, we were forgiving and accepting of our spouses faults, but after DDay we see more and more what was wrong with the M and with the WS. We were committed. They were not.

As Ats pointed out, we sometimes feel if the WS does this or that things will be better, but we have to heal ourselves. Yes, there are things the WS does that still hurts and brings down our self esteem, but we can't change their behavior, we can only change ours. Sometimes when we change OUR behavior the other party starts to change theirs, but that should not be our focus. That becomes codependent thinking. "If only I am nicer, more thoughtful, thinner, etc, then my WS will treat me better"
NOPE
That's what the 180 is about, changing the way you act for yourself and your healing. Not in hopes that the WS would wake up.

I've had a few more "dday's" in the past few weeks, and although I've cried and mourned a bit, it was different this time. I didn't want to crawl into bed like a wounded animal and lick my wounds. I cried because I was seeing the truth and it was not what I thought it was.

Although NPD probably cares for me, he never really loved me. He used me over and over again. I was there for him and of course he wanted that and gave me enough crumbs to keep me that way, but I don't believe I've ever, ever been his priority, or his love, or "wife".

Found out more about other cheating over the years, while we were dating, etc,

Not surprised, and I know he will never ever change.

Wow, that was a ramble!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, July 28th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If only life were so simple, so clear cut

Well H&C.. I never said anything about it being easy or clear cut. You can move things along with your attorney. You can pressure your wife with fair words and actions. Your wife made her choice a long time ago, but fear stands in her way.

My Aunt was told she only had weeks to live because she had Leukemia. She had a choice to fight it.. which meant possible quick death or slight chance of remission. If not, weeks to live.

"I am going to chance it and fight".

Only 15 days ago, all was well, not much a care in the world. She passed in peace Friday. She died with courage and hope. She never gave up on her future no matter how poor the odds. A person of strength!

You might think.. well she died. We all die... but she Fought for her future happiness.... Happiness is the key.. peace is the key.. you make decision to get there because you pull you hair out not making the decision.. it is misery.

and when you find it.. like I did on the golf course today playing under par on most holes.. it feels so good.

H&C.. Your good is coming.. eliminate the misery ASAP and never look back! You can do this.. You are a good man.. it will come.. make is sooner than later..

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:43 PM, July 28th (Sunday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, July 28th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest.. not a ramble, just perspective. I am sorry. It is awful to learn what you thought your life was, in fact was not. It sounds like you are coming to terms with your reality and beginning to live with ease. I wish you the best.

Tryin.. I am sorry about your Aunt's passing. She sounds like a remarkable woman, facing the ultimate challenge with bravery and determination.

Courage and strength come in many different forms. I recently learned of a woman in her 80s diagnosed with terminal cancer. She was given less than three months to live and with chemotherapy, and its horrendous side effects, her life may be extended up to six months. She declined the treatment. Instead, she focused on the joys in her life AND changed her diet to juices of pure fruits and vegetables. Over ten years later, she is still enjoying the beauty of life.

This in no ways diminishes the courage of your Aunt. It only shows another side of courage and strength.

Personally I do not see filing for D as a courageous act. Filing for D is eashy. My W betrayed me. D is easy. Staying after DDay was hard, very hard.
D

So, here I am two years later. My W asks for a D. We took the kids to a family counselor to give them support in the upcoming D. I wrote out a settlement. My W did not pursue it with her attorney. I have engaged an attorney myself but have yet to file.

I will not pressure my W by filing for D. I have been and will continue to be very clear with my W that she needs to be all in the M or we will D.

My IC made it very clear by sharing the following story. Long term dating relationship and the man was non commital towards marriage. So the woman could have dragged him to the altar and they would have gotten married. Instead, the woamn ended the realionship.

So, when everything was in place for D, my W decided there was a doubt as to whether or not she wanted to D. And if she decides to go all in for the M, then I will work on the M with her.

My W knows me well. She knows that I will not stay in the status quo. She knows time is no longer an ally once I laid out the D terms.

I will see what the future brings.

Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, July 29th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn: I am so sorry about your aunt. She was wonderfully courageous. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

H&C: It seems that your WW has started to look at reality. How long will you wait in limbo until she decides to be in the M? I've done that for far too long, living with false hope. We would slide back in to the "old routine", everything appears fine, until something A related rears its ugly head. There's nothing wrong, H&C to try everything you can to save your M, but still focus on healing yourself. You sound good.

I guess I'm on a rollercoaster of trying to focus on healing me this time. I try to focus on me, but keep looking at him.... I guess old habits are hard to break.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, July 29th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_Jack- I am so sorry to hear you are not doing well. I was going to suggest the same thing 7 yrs did; try writing a letter. Let the adrenaline die down, then read it before you give it to her to make sure you are communicating calmly and clearly.

H&C – it sounds as though she is having second thoughts, although the ‘still neutral’ bit is discomforting. Sounds too much like my WH – doesn’t want me to leave, but ‘is just trying to be friends again first.’ How are things going? Are you seeing any signs of improvement? I know you want so deeply for things to work out and I want that for you. I agree with you that D seems easier. Staying and fighting and bearing new hurts is hard. Hopefully we will both one day find, like ats, that it was worth the effort.

Miracle – YAY to the new job? Do you like it?

Trust – I am so glad you don’t need the transplant! My first thought regarding WH is, if he couldn’t find it in himself to be there for you NOW, when you needed him the most, when your life itself was on the line, how can you ever count on him again?

Tryn – you WW has asked you for D? I am so sorry. You know, when I read your posts, my brain automatically assigns you a sage and wise tone of voice. I know that you are, as you say, a quality person. That WW has decided, for whatever reason, not to accept the love and devotion you so freely offered, with only the fair expectation of the same in return, is sad. I wonder if deep down she doesn’t feel worthy of you. My thoughts and prayers are with you on the loss of your aunt.

You can forgive on dday + 1, but it many instances I have seen on SI, including my own, the WS would not have initiated the self-work necessary without the (negative) incentive. Sure, the FWS may start to do the work for themselves after they have started, but initially many seem to take the position of "nothing to see here sir, move along..."

Ats – very true. I told WH I forgave him on D-Day#1, and I meant it. If he would have maintained NC and done the work with me to re-establish trust and fix the pre-A problems, the A would have been a non-issue for me in the long run. I focused on fixing the things I needed to fix, addressing our issues and trying to be the best spouse I could be. I thought he would do the same. But he didn’t want to own his own shit, he didn’t want to heal me, heal himself, heal us. I wonder if I had kicked him to the curb that day, if he’d have woken up.

Honest – I am so sooo sorry! You deserve so much better. You really do. (((HONEST)))

My update? WH and I had a blow-up fight a couple of weekends ago – I made the mistake of asking him if he wanted to do something with me since DD was at a sleepover. Told me I was on page 200 – fighting to save our marriage and rekindle our love, but he was on page 1 – just trying to be friends again. I asked him if it was because of her, and he said no, that he hadn’t talked to her ‘since April or May’, then backed down when I pointed out that he previously told me he ended it on June 14th and said, ’okay, since then.’ How could he forget ending it on her birthday? On the day of his work reunion picnic??

I asked him – why am I here? You told me a month ago that you ended the A and were committed to making it work, but you have shown no effort to do that since. If you can’t even see fit to take me mini-golfing without DD, which quite frankly, even ‘friends’ do, then why am I here? Because it’s cheaper? Because it keeps DD nearby? Because you like my cooking? He said “you’re here because this is where you live.” My response was to inform him that was easily rectified, and that I was cleaning out the spare room (which we use as storage) to move into until I could save up the funds and find a place to live. I have spent the past two weeks clearing it out. Then this weekend he says ‘now that that room’s cleaned out, we can turn it into a game room for DD.’ I was completely dumbfounded! He is acting like everything is fine, has even cuddled me the past couple of nights! I am so confused.

I might be willing to let him hoover me back in, but I think he is still talking to OP. She posted a tattoo on FB (I know, I know – I shouldn’t look!) that looked like his initials. I asked him about it and he asked me why I was stalking her FB, even though I hadn’t told him that’s how I saw the tattoo, so obviously he’d been looking too. He told me it was an old tattoo, not sure why she posted it, and it was Sanskrit, not his initials. I accepted that answer and tried to move on. Except today, four days later when I couldn’t resist the urge to look, curious to see if the tattoo really did look like it was old, her FB page has been changed to private again. He claims he didn’t tell her I was looking. I don’t see how I can believe him.

Also - I caught him looking through my email on my tablet. I have nothing to hide, but purely on principle I asked him if I could look at his phone. Predictably, he said no, so I said then leave my tablet alone. He gave it back without a word.

Part of me is done, really done, with being hurt. Part of me wants to gobble up the crumbs he’s thrown me lately and hold on to that last glimmer of hope with everything I’ve got. I want him to finally choose us, not just with words but with actions. We had a great marriage once, and I so very desperately want that back. I still love him, even if right now I don’t like him very much, and I don’t want my DD to have to deal with the trauma that comes with being a child of divorce. Part of me is angry, really angry, that he repeatedly hurts me and puts me down and makes me feel like I’m not good enough - just the other day he was pissed I was taking DD to aquarium while my car was getting fixed, and mocked me for only working 20 hours a week - and I waver between trying to embrace that anger for strength and trying to force it away so I don’t end up bitter and cynical. I feel like a broken record, crying over the latest kick to the gut, and yet allowing him to do it again, and I hate that about myself.

In the end, I just want peace. I want the drama to end. I want the tears to end. I want serenity and happiness. I just don’t know how to get there.

[This message edited by DecimatedHeart at 3:01 PM, July 29th (Monday)]


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, July 29th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C: It seems that your WW has started to look at reality. How long will you wait in limbo until she decides to be in the M?

A few months - or shorter if I see obstinence.

H&C to try everything you can to save your M, but still focus on healing yourself. You sound good.

Absolutely! Once I decidend to stop the ADs last Nevember, I have been on a steady climb upward. I continue to find new sources that help me mentally and emotionally. I'll be starting a new exercise routine in August and that should help as well.

How are things going? Are you seeing any signs of improvement?

Yes, there are some signes of improvement. A thoughtful father's day gift. A thoughtful purchase of a sweater last week. A movie and dinner afterwards on Friday. A nice time. Dinner was late (after the movie) and normally she would not want to go out for dinner then.

I agree with you that D seems easier. Staying and fighting and bearing new hurts is hard. Hopefully we will both one day find, like ats, that it was worth the effort.

I have no regrets for staying and trying to build a great M with my WW. If it works, that will be wonderful. And if it does not work, I will have no regrets for trying.


Currently, there is a huge canyon between where we are and what the M will need to be for me to continue. And a large portion must be crossed soon before hope fades away completely. My WW and I are spending the week together going to see DS play in a baseball tournament so this could be the beginning or the end. I will enjoy the turnament and everything else is a bonus.

Be safe! Be happy! Be healthy! Live with ease!

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, July 29th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Part of me is done, really done, with being hurt. Part of me wants to gobble up the crumbs he’s thrown me lately and hold on to that last glimmer of hope with everything I’ve got

DH: When I read the above, it felt like I wrote the same post. That's all I have been doing for 4 years, and the crumbs got less and less to almost non existent and I get yelled at if I ask for more.

I believed in the false hope. Every glimmer I went chasing after like "fool's gold".

It was pointed out to me by the wonderful people here and my IC that I would "wake up" and see the reality, and then not being able to face it, put my head in the sand again.

Gently, DH, it may be good for you to do some sleuthing. Your gut is telling you something. Your WH doesn't even know when he stopped talking to the OW? BS.

Don't hang on to the false hope like I did. It just prolongs the pain.

As for me, I open up my iPhone to look at a pic, and accidentally pressed "photo stream" and lo and behold there are pics from OC's phone. Pics of all of them, the happy family in a place we always go. Pics of NPD and OW looking so happy. Pics of NPD and the kids. Pics of OW.
I didn't fall apart, but it's getting to me now. Not to be bitchy, but WTH? She's not all that at all. She's actually not that attractive. But still, it hurts like hell.

This is the elephant in the room that I can't ignore. Actually 4 elephants.

I'm trying to be strong, haven't cried yet, but boy oh boy.

And it doesn't matter if I filed or not, this hurts.

Just sharing, because I know you guys would understand more than people who haven't gone through this.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, July 29th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Decimated:

Im not going to try to decipher your husband's behavior - but, clearly, it's not too impressive, at best.

My question for you is: what is in it for you in this relationship?

I always asked myself this - and of course, there's the usual responses - for my child, convenience, companionship, I still love him, etc.

But, can you be happy with what he has to offer? Someone who has engaged in a LTA, doesn't appear to be remorseful, doesnt appear to be committed to R, only willing to TRY to become friends with you again?

Is that enough for you? I realize that it's not going to be all rainbows & unicorns - it will be a long, bumpy road - but your description of him - well, he just seems indifferent.

Im not a big fan of running to s/d - you have to be ready for it, KNOW it's the right decision, but Im also not a big fan of putting yourself emotionally out there with someone who is not at least trying to meet you half way.

Best of luck to you, Hun. Be well.

Honest: I'm sorry that you came across these photos & of course it hurts. Use your self talk to see it for what it is: that pic of a "happy family" is a lie. And, more importantly, you are not to envy anyone who is living with NPD!

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:35 PM, July 29th (Monday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, July 29th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn: sorry to hear about your aunt, thank you for sharing her journey with us


heart: oh hon, i am so sorry your ws seems to do stupid so so well.....

you need to look at his actions...ALL OF THEM....when people show you who they are BELIEVE THEM!!!....he keeps showing you who he really is.....sure there are parts of him you like and love.....he wasnt always this new person after all.....but for the most part he has turned into this "new"person with glimpses of "old"...and for now that is all he will be....can we forsee the future...of course not...but the best predicter of future behavior is "PAST behavior"....and frankly his behavior as of late, (since d-day) has not been one of a ws who is fighting for HIS marriage.....


pfm asks me all the time..."what can i do to make it work"...and its such a stupid quesiton at this point...he knows what had been required....not wanted but required...and it was HIS choice not to meet those requirements...and you would think that as much as he swears up and down that he wants this marriage....short of a doing a few errands.....he really has not stepped up to the plate...he is still a liar...and his response is always...Well no one is perfect".....while of course he swears he is a changed man who is open and honest... ....what a joke...

anyways heart...what has your ws SHOWN YOU ABOUT WHO HE IS NOW!!!!

and honest....i am so sorry for all your pain...and you know that once you finally cut that cord the pain will dullen with time....my wish for you is that you no longer prolong your agony....its so way past time....give that man the papers for his trip back....


as for my new job...i have not started yet....i did a bit of training last week and will do some more tomorrow...but i don't really start til next week...

and the only thing i can add for the miracle update is that pfm continues to show me who he is proving my path to be the right path.....everytime he does stupid well is another push....and i am looking forward to my new future life....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, July 30th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle: I forgot to congratulate you on the new job. CONGRATULATIONS!! That's awesome & Im very happy/proud of you.

Honest: Miracle is right - it will get better with time. A few months ago, I became aware that my X was at a party and that OW was also there. Not one tear was shed. I didnt even get upset. I cant say I wasnt annoyed - but it didn't affect me in any way like it would have in the past. Didnt impact my day at all.

Decimated: My X to this day, will tell me that he wants for us to reconcile, that he loves me, etc. But, the reality is that he was given that opportunity many times over the 1 1/2 years I attempted to reconcile before I gave up. The bottom line is that he felt that "not cheating" was enough - and that would be by his terms - some contact with OW would be ok as long as they werent having sex. Going to therapy & not participating was enough. Basically, he would agree to not cheat & for us to go out more/have sex more & our marriage would be perfect. It got to the point where I couldnt respect myself anymore, was embarrased to admit I was still with him to people who knew the details. I came to the realization that this was not love, and more importantly, not something that was in my best interest anymore. (I just couldnt believe that someone who claims to love me could see me unravel and be in so much pain and react the way he was.)

THe signs were there long before I pulled the plug, but I couldnt have that on my conscience until I was sure

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:17 AM, July 30th (Tuesday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, July 30th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, I wanted to thank everyone for sharing their stories. It is so helpful I think to realize that many of us needed time before we were ready to see and accept the reality of what was going on in our M.

ATS - I loved your analogy of the boat. That was such a fantastic way to think about the aftermath of our S's LTA's. For anyone who hasn't read this, it is worth going back a few pages and reading what ATS wrote.

Miracle - CONGRATULATIONS! You are amazing and I love reading about your successes - you are well on your way to a new and better life.

Tryn - so sorry to hear about your aunt but I am happy for you that you had someone in your life who was such an amazing inspiration.

In the end, I just want peace. I want the drama to end. I want the tears to end. I want serenity and happiness. I just don’t know how to get there.

DH - Unfortunately there are times when the only way to find this peace with an unremorseful spouse is to initiate a drastic measure. For me, I had papers drawn up and gave them to my FWH to take to his attorney. The shock and reality is what made him see that I would not tolerate anything less than what I deserved. NJG actually had her H move out of their home for several months. Another "oldie" had her H move into their detached garage. These drastic measures force a WS to see the consequences of their A's and finally decide whether or not they want to fight for the M. I don't know if you are ready yet for something more drastic but it seems clear, IMHO, that your H is taking advantage of your willingness to wait for him to change. He needs a reality check and the sooner the better. You mentioned that you prepared a room and now he is saying it will make a great game room for your DD. If you are not ready to ask him to move out or have papers drawn up, then maybe you really should consider moving into that room or, better yet, have him move into it. Would that be something you are ready to do?? The fact that he would not give you access to his phone sends out roaring red flags, as well as his other behaviors. Unfortunately, I feel that if you really want peace and serenity in your life, you need to be the one to initiate a change in your current situation.
(((((DH))))))))

Honest - I am so sorry you had to find these photos. As Miracle has said, "it is so way past time." My fear for you is that you are soaking up whatever crumbs he is feeding you while he remains here and when he leaves (which for your sake I hope is very soon) you will again feel devastated and hurt. Take care Honest and protect your fragile heart.
(((Honest))))
Trust - I am so sorry that your H was not more supportive during your latest medical ordeal. It was so good to read though that you will not need a transplant at this time. I hope you continue to get stronger. ((Trust))

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:34 AM, July 30th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, July 30th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The other night I was watching the news and it featured a couple whose son had committed suicide. The father was a pastor and he was giving a speech thanking everyone for their support. In this speech he said something that resonated with me that I thought I'd share. He said:
"Your illness is not your identity and your chemistry is not your character."
(He did not say what "illness" his son suffered with that contributed to his desire to commit suicide.)
What I found so interesting about this statement was how it relates to a successful R. What I have seen on my many years on this site is that for those whose S's suffer with a disorder, such as alcoholism, or have suffered major trauma in their life, such as sexual abuse, once the WS decides to get treatment, R becomes possible. Although this doesn't lesson the pain and suffering of the BS, I do think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that there would be an element of compassion and an understanding of how this could have happened. In other words, their S's chemistry is not their character.

Then there are those S's whose behavior is a true reflection of their character. It does not result from some chemical imbalance or former trauma. In my H's case for example, he had an undeniable sense of entitlement. He wanted to have a woman on the side, he felt entitled, he saw no reason why he shouldn't have one, and felt no shame or guilt. He was entitled.

Coming to this realization has changed my ability to fully commit to my M. I often wonder if some illness or trauma had been "responsible" for his wayward behavior would I have been more compassionate and open to a true R. As it is, I have always kept my H at arms length.

I am not saying that someone cannot make a concerted effort to change their character. But one must be willing to face who they are and want to make this change. In therapy, my H always said, "I don't need this but I'll do it for you." In fairness, he has worked to be a better H, but for me, the aftermath of seeing my H's true character has had long-term negative effects.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that for those newbies here who are having difficulty with unremorseful S's it may be necessary to discover what caused your S to go down their destructive path, was it chemistry or character?? Maybe an answer to this question will provide you with the way to move forward in your M and your life.
Hugs to the tribe.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, July 30th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgivenotforget- A very thoughtful post.

I do think that the key to whether or not a BS can reconcile with the WS after a LTA is the level of commitment that the WS makes to the marriage.
A BS cannot reconcile on their own. And actually, the only way that true reconciliation is possible is if the WS does the lion's share of the work to save the marriage.
The WS did the damage and so, it is his/her responsibility to take the lead in trying to repair the damage.

IMHO you simply cannot reconcile with a WS that is not remorseful and is not 100% motivated to save the marriage.

Now...as to the whys for the affair.... it is easier in some ways if you can look back and 'blame' a psychological disorder-depression, bipolar, etc. or an addiction, alcoholism, sex addiction for the LTA.
Because then if the WS takes action to remedy the disorder/addiction etc. by seeking help, getting on meds, going to a support group like AA or SAA etc. you as the BS have something concrete as evidence that the WS is changing his/her behaviors etc.

But, I do believe that even if the infidelity was due to character flaws in the WS that a very motivated WS can work on himself/herself and become a better person.

I've read many stories on SI that are similar to mine-where d-day is hitting bottom for the WS and causes them to re evaluate their entire life and take an inventory of themselves and realize that they do not want to go on living in the toxic way that they have been.



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


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