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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: WW still in contact w/ OM - claims there is no relationship
worknprogress
♂ New Member
Member # 39316
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can you stay with a wife who continues to deny and conceal her relationship with her boyfriend? Can you leave a wife (and mother of your two small children) who is starting breast cancer treatment and having a double mastectomy in 4 days?

...

Ten months ago I discovered my wife's more than year long A w/ a co-worker. She claims it was only an EA w/ a single kiss. The TT that lead to the revelation of the kiss and other revelations makes me think it was a PA, but she is unwilling to admit it. I would have left her after the affair discovery, but I wanted my marriage to work and felt I owed it to my 2 and 5 year old daughters to try and make it work.

Since then we have been through couple and individual counseling. It has been a rough road. We agreed to NC, and she sent OM a letter stating any workplace interactions between the two of them would be strictly professional. It felt like we were making progress and getting things close to back on track.

Three weeks ago my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. That same week I found an e-mail she sent to herself with her boyfriends name as the subject and an image file within stating "I love pretending we are not sleeping together". When confronted with the information she maintained that she never passed the image on to her boyfriend, and that she has no relationship with him. She said she drunkenly sent it to herself fantasizing about him. I told her that I was deeply hurt, but that I will be here for her through treatment. I made it clear that I wanted to be her husband, but I won't have a wife with a boyfriend.

After the confrontation she put a passcode on her phone and changed her passwords on her Facebook and e-mail accounts. I guess changing her passwords made her more confident that she didn't need to be so careful using her accounts to continue her affair. Yesterday in her e-mail I found a receipt for a gift she recently sent to him and another image she e-mailed to herself stating "never give up on someone you think about everyday".

She maintains that she currently doesn't have any friendship with him, and that it really just was an EA that ended immediately after D-Day. I would love to hear from WW's, or anyone else, with their opinion on the likelihood of her honesty.

I love her and want this family to work. I wish there was a way to fix this, but I can't change her heart. She wants me, but can't give him up or be honest with me about him. I feel like I can't stay, but I also can't leave my children's mother as she starts a fight with cancer. I don't want to go. I wish I could make this work but I don't know how.

------------------

Me BS 36
Her WS 36
OM 40 (on 3rd marriage & in A)
DDay July 10, 2012


Posts: 4 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((worknprogress))))

So sorry for what you are going through.

I would say there is about a zero percent chance your WW is being honest with you. If you really need proof there is more you could do (PI, VAR, etc) but with her going to surgery soon that may need to wait.

I would help her through her surgery and the start of her treatment; that may actually help to open her eyes. But I would protect your heart during this process. Her changing her passwords is really all the proof you need. She is not remorseful and is not in R.

Wishing you strength during this doubly difficult time.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1772 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So sorry you are going through this.

You requested WW opinion of her honesty. Since the mods will probably move this thread out of Reconciliation (because R is a two-way street, and you're the only one driving) I will limit my response: She's lying. All. The. Time. Honest women committed to M and R don't change their passwords.

If you haven't, read this: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/beyond-betrayal-life-after-infidelity

You may especially recognize your wife in this paragraph:
Men who get caught screwing around are more likely to be honest about the sex than women. Men will confess the full sexual details, even if they are vague about the emotions. Women on the other hand will confess to total consuming love and suicidal desire to die with some man, while insisting no sex ever took place. I would believe that if I'd ever seen a man describe the affair as so consumingly intense from the waist up and so chaste from the waist down. I assume these women are lying to me about what they know they did or did not do, while I assume that the men really are honest about the genital ups and downs—and honestly confused about the emotional ones.

Best to you and your sweet little girls.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will limit my response: She's lying. All. The. Time.

I agree. Maybe I am a cold hearted bitch but I would offer to take custody of the girls while she goes through chemo and leave her faster than she could speak his name. She is still IN her A and expecting you to be the one who deals with her health issues because - well, because you will. So sorry you have to go through this. Whatever you decide, this just plain sucks :-(


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 769 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
Ashland13
♀ Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So very sorry, WNProgress.

What a really difficult place to be in.

I'm going to agree with the post that talks about remaining "as is" until after she is strong in remission.

Also, I wonder if you have any chance at getting some help for what's needed in her recovery...thinking of maybe a break for you, for some rest and ability to think a little?

I am glad to read that you are "onto her" and it seems like she's not really fooling you any longer. That's good. That took me a really long time, because I wanted so much to trust and not to believe.

Maybe a little bit of thinking at a time isn't a bad thing and some watching and waiting as well?

Then you would be able to proceed in which direction you chose later on and could know that you stayed on through the surgery and some-or all-of the recovery. I suspect that could go a long way later on for your own piece of mind?

And maybe in the meanwhile could quietly think, line up ducks (quack) and even detatch if you decide to?

And yes, this major illness could snap her thinking at some point, if you still wanted the chance.

I hope you'll be able to figure out what you're going to do and peace will come soon.


Ashland 13

You gave me nothing and now it's all I've got - Bono

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2306 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi worknprogress,

So sorry for your sich. I too believe your wife is lying. I might be more inclined to believe her if she had not already broken NC and had not pass protected her phone.

I feel like I can't stay, but I also can't leave my children's mother as she starts a fight with cancer.

You know, if having you and your support around was important to your WW she could be transparent and honest with you. She could unlock her phone; never delete text messages until you have reviewed the phone, give you access to her emails, Facebook, etc. You cannot end the A, only she can. You cannot fix a M alone, she has to do her part (starting with ending the A).

It is really crappy for all concerned to have to deal with her betrayal and A at the same time as her surgery (all about her eh?), but again this is her doing, not yours. You already offered R and a chance to work on the M and in return she fantasized about having more sex with him.

Her medical procedure is not your primary concern; you have to be able to take care of you, then your kids. Make sure to meet with an Attorney to understand your rights. Is OM married? If so, have you notified OM BS?

Keep posting, SI is a great resource to help with an awful time.


LTA FBS 54
dday 10.5.09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4140 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Theradin
♂ Member
Member # 38518
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So sorry to hear your WW continues to inflict pain upon you and your family, and is continuing to emotionally abuse you. No one should ever have to tolerate abuse, regardless of if it is physical, emotional, sexual, etc.

It is very clear she is still continuing to betray you, while lying to you and harming you.

I'm not sure of the particulars of your situation, but if I was in the situation, I would have no choice other than to tell my WW the following: "We are done. You have clearly chosen to continue to emotionally abuse me and harm our family unit. Both of which are unacceptable and will not be tolerated in our home. I will be separating from you, and I wish you the best in your surgery and subsequent recovery. Perhaps your 'boy friend' will be able to support you during what will undoubtedly be a very difficult time for you." I would also fight for full custody of your two girls (she really isn't in a mental or physical state to be a primary care provider for two young girls). Sheesh.. what type of example is she setting for her daughters when they grow up and learn about mommy's emotional abuse toward daddy (note: if there is ever an STd involved, it then becomes physical abuse, too), let alone how it may shape your girls' 'view' about fidelity, relationships, love, etc.? Hardly something a mother could really proudly put on a trophy, I'm sure.

Focus on the well-being of your daughters and yourself. Your WW has clearly chosen another man for her sexual and/or emotional needs. Perhaps it's time for her to test this "undying love" for the OM by having him provide for her and support her during her cancer treatments. Something tells me the OM will opt not to do this, and find another married woman instead. After all, a double-mastectomy AP isn't the most flattering trait an AP looks for. That's too much in-reality stuff for an AP, when he could simply find another married woman with low self-esteem and FOO issues to bounce up and down on his lap for a bit. Otherwise, he would have to love her unconditionally, care for her, support her during her surgeries and chemo treatments, be there holding her hand in the hospital while sleeping bedside with her, etc., and that is simply too much effort for this "amazing, most loving, gold-encapsulated" AP of hers.

Sorry to say it, but based on her behavior, what you've written, etc., it may be that ths M has simply run its course. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. Your daughters are still very young and can easily be co-raised by you with a healthy, non-abusive stepmother who can serve as a positive role model in their lives. Although it isn't ideal, it is certainly better than continuing to have your children subjected to the emotional abuse and trauma she is inflicting upon you. They need a healthy, happy dad, and you cannot be either of those if you stay with this woman in her current state.

Best of luck to you.


ME: 33 BH
HER: 32 WW
Married: 8 years
Children: Yes
DDay #1: 02/22/2006 (ONS)
DDay #2: 09/23/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #3: 12/07/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #4: 01/03/2013 (EA/PA)
DDay #5: 01/24/2013 (EA/PA)
TT until 04/07/2013
100% NC: 04/18/2013

Posts: 190 | Registered: Feb 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree with the above. Total bs about the physical nature of the affair, and although the timing is unfortunate with the cancer diagnosis/treatment, it appears that she has already moved on.

I feel bad for you worknprogress. Wish you the best, your kids are lucky to have you.


Me (BS)-45, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1463 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I may be in the minority and sound cruel, but I don't see her illness as a valid reason to "drop everything." There is no, meaning none, zippo, zero, zilch, for carrying on this way. There are always circumstances. Her illness does not give her license to treat you so poorly. It does not give her license to act like she is on her deathbed and can ignore the consequences of her actions.

I would ask her, at a minimum, to provide you transparency. She is going to need your support through her illness. If she has nothing to hide, she should hide nothing. Right ?

If push comes to shove ask her to ask her boyfriend to take care of her. He can talk to the doctors. He can hold her while she cries and needs support. He can figure out how to pay the medical bills. I'll bet he has something else going on at that time and every other time after. That should help clear the disillusions about how much he really cares. My thinking is she is still at a minimum in an EA with him.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. FWIW my mother had cancer and I spent the better part of two years taking care of her through chemo, radiation, etc. I am not saying this lightly and with no personal appreciation dealing with cancer. You are going to have to be a rock for her during her illness. Being her rock does not mean you have to be her slave and abide by her wishes especially when they are so damaging to you. If she wants a H through this process she should act like a W. KWIM ?

BTW odds of surviving a cancer diagnosis are much better today than they were even a few years ago. Despite her making several bad choices, I will say a prayer for her tonight.

((worknprogress)) I am sorry you are dealing with all of this. So sorry.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2570 | Registered: May 2010
faithfulfool
♂ Member
Member # 34252
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can you stay with a wife who continues to deny and conceal her relationship with her boyfriend?

I wouldn't.

Can you leave a wife (and mother of your two small children) who is starting breast cancer treatment and having a double mastectomy in 4 days?

Sounds to me like, she already left you, you would just be moving on with your life. It sounds like you would have been a loving, supportive, wonderful husband for a wife facing the awfulness of cancer, but she knew that and she threw it straight in the garbage. She knew the risks/consequences of what she is doing. Do not feel guilty for taking care of yourself. She does not get to eat cake.

She said she drunkenly sent it to herself fantasizing about him.

This makes no sense...none.

she put a passcode on her phone and changed her passwords on her Facebook and e-mail accounts.

Not the actions of a remourseful spouse. This alone would be a dealbreaker for me.

"never give up on someone you think about everyday".

NC was NEVER established.

She maintains that she currently doesn't have any friendship with him

She playing you for a fool.

I love her and want this family to work. I wish there was a way to fix this, but I can't change her heart. She wants me, but can't give him up or be honest with me about him. I feel like I can't stay, but I also can't leave my children's mother as she starts a fight with cancer. I don't want to go. I wish I could make this work but I don't know how.

I understand you 100%. We've all been there. Unfortunately denial doesn't change reality.

If I were in your shoes, i would not look back. I would not feel guilty. You tried. You loved. She was never aboard.

I hope that doesn't come across as insensitive, but i feel really angry on your behalf. Best of luck to you. I'll be praying for your strength.


--------------
Me: BH(33)
Her: fWW(31)
Married 8 yrs, together 15. no kids
D-day: 7/15/11
TT thru 4/24/12

Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: The South (USA)
OK now
♀ Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its not too late to save this marriage but you are really going to need to get tough with your WW. The feelings for the OM need to be eradicated and since only your wife can do this, you need to 'persuade' her to go NC.

Remind her the cancer she has may return and if she doesn't cooperate in reconciliation and give up OM, she could end up fighting this illness on her own. You are fighting for the welfare of your family; stop being nice - it doesn't work, try filing for divorce to wake her up on what she stands to lose. Always withdraw the petition later.

What ever you do; whatever road you take; stop being so nice and decent. Tough people know when being reasonable doesn't work and are prepared to use stronger tactics. This is the approach you need to take.



Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Remind her the cancer she has may return and if she doesn't cooperate in reconciliation and give up OM, she could end up fighting this illness on her own.

I would not want to R with a WW who came back to me out of fear of being alone in the future when something bad might happen and she would need me to put on the shining armor again. The only WW I was willing to R with was a remorseful W who wanted to be with me because she loved me, was aroused by me, and valued who I was.

You already offered R and she ignored it.

I would not use her surgery and diagnosis as a tool in working through her betrayal. If you bring up her health it just lets her play the victim card.

Your WW cheated on you. Her current health has nothing to do with your healing, other than she will be even less available to offer any support and truth to you, not that it sounds like she is on that path. Separate the issues. You take care of you and your kids. WW takes care of herself. It sucks that WW will have to deal with health issues and her betrayal if she wants you and the M, but that is the bed she made.

Wedding vows mention sickness and health, but they first say forsaking all others. You currently have no obligations to your WW beyond society’s legal obligations; which is why I suggested meeting with an attorney or two.


LTA FBS 54
dday 10.5.09
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4140 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
worknprogress
♂ New Member
Member # 39316
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate it.

If there weren't children involved I would leave. I am not going to stay in this marriage without some serious changes in the way our relationship works and proof that my wife is working hard at fixing herself. But leaving my children's mother while she is recovering from a serious surgery will not be the best thing for them. Leaving while she is in any sort of compromised state will make the trauma of a separation much more traumatic.

I spoke with our MC today. She put it well, "you are screwed". I can't leave, but I can't stay "in" this marriage. My marriage as of right now is over. I just have to keep calm and carry-on. I will be kind and caring to my children's co-parent, but I have to stop thinking of her as my wife. It is an incredibly messed up situation, but I am more concerned about the welfare of these two little girls than I am about my hurt. I will be fine. I am not sure if they will be fine with the kind of scars their father leaving their cancer stricken mother will leave on them.

I hope and pray that something happens in the next few weeks that will convince me that this marriage can be resuscitated, but for now the only healthy thing for me is to think of it as done and try to carry on as well as I can given my current condition.

P.S. There is no way the OM will take care of her. He has kids, is on his 3rd marriage at 40 and he and his wife are cheating on each other.


Posts: 4 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Clarrissa
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Member # 21886
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another WW here and I call bullshit. As another poster said, just the fact that she passcode protected her phone and changed her passwords says quite clearly she's hiding something and that something is most likely the ongoing A. A remorseful WS hides nothing, volunteers passcodes and passwords and is truthful. Your WW is none of these things.


BH Cee64D - 48
WW (me) - 49


All affairs are variations on a theme. No one has 'Beethoven's 5th' to everyone else's 'Chopsticks'.


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: A better place
OK now
♀ Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would not want to R with a WW who came back to me out of fear of being alone in the future

Hey, whatever works. This is the reconciliation forum; the poster chose this forum for a good reason; advice given needs to be directed at the goal of saving the marriage.

If worknprogress can pressure his wife into NC and finally reach the goal of WW remorse, then its all to the good. The only issue to be debated is how to achieve this end. My suggestion is taking a no-nonsense, hardass approach, and if that means exploiting her current health vulnerability, then thats an acceptable way forward. Being ruthless and taking charge is especially relevant when considering he has a family of young children.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you decide to stay until she is recovered from her surgery, I would recommend 180ing her. Discuss nothing with her other than doctor's appts and child care. Be polite, but disinterested sort of like an underpaid home health aide. If that phone is on your name, disconnect it. She doesn't need it. Unless the computer is hers, bought with her own money, I would drop it into the bathtub and decline to replace it. Bare minimum of what's needed to get her to her appointments and make sure that she gets her treatment, and with your children the rest of the time. If she complains, calmly remark that she has fired you from being your husband and thus she cannot expect you to give you more than the humane bare minimum, and you're just waiting until she's healthy to completely leave the marriage. Then back to 180 and taking primary care of your daughters. I'd see a lawyer too so that the moment that she is healed, you can have her served.

Best of luck to you. (((hugs))) You're a good man.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4966 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you used the traditional tool of exposure? You could still employ this, and I would certainly check back in with the OM's wife and let her know the affair continues. (I'm assuming you have told his wife)


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6582 | Registered: Jan 2011
tooanalytical
♂ Member
Member # 22306
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2X what Theradin said. I recommend re-reading the post.

You need to start 180 and moving 100 mph in the opposite direction of her. She is cake eating, fence sitting, having a friend with benefits on the side and you are paying for it and enabling her. I took the approach from day 1 just like Theradin and FWW came out of her fog immediately.


Me BH 44
FWW 44
Married 21 years
D-Day Apr 29, 2008
Children: 19,17,14
EA/PA - 1 year
Status: R

Posts: 282 | Registered: Jan 2009
Nogoingback
♀ Member
Member # 38712
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That same week I found an e-mail she sent to herself with her boyfriends name as the subject and an image file within stating "I love pretending we are not sleeping together". When confronted with the information she maintained that she never passed the image on to her boyfriend, and that she has no relationship with him. She said she drunkenly sent it to herself fantasizing about him.

Sorry if someone has pointed this out (at work and skimmed through replies), but I suspect OM has her email password and using his name as the subject line is some type of code between them. I'm sorry. You can't even confront her with this because you can't prove it, and it sounds like they will just find another way.
She is still cheating on you


BS 33
WS 31
together 10 years
DD 4/8/2011
EA/PA with co-worker while I was pregnant
Trying to reconcile

"Above all, be the heroine of your life, not the victim." Nora Ephron


Posts: 66 | Registered: Mar 2013
kenny55
♂ Member
Member # 23014
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, May 20th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isn't this the way Paula Broadwell and the General communicated? They would type the message and not send it. The other person would log on as them and read . Nothing was ever sent.

Posts: 474 | Registered: Feb 2009
Topic Posts: 37
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