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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it wasnít so much a fear of abandonment, but a fear of failure.

Nmp, thank you, I think you've nailed it for me... I don't have any issues with abandonment yet I wonder why I clung so hard and put up with so much to save this M. I think "failure is not an option" is my kryptonite.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The day before my wedding my FIL to be told me, ďdonít do it.Ē Even though he sounded serious, I laughed it off because he must be joking, right? A few months later, I found out he was a BH.

Mine did something similar. He told my WW to "be nice to me" when I asked for hand in marriage. She has anger issues and has always been told that she is "passionate". I think it really is just immature coping/defense mechanisms but what do I know? He is a BH as well.

STBXWW is very insecure and her selfesteem is highly contingent on what others think and say about her. Her need for validation trumps everything from rational thought to appropriate boundaries

Bingo. I knew this was an issue all along, but didn't think it would lead to an A. I didn't know the extent of her need for validation. After our last MC session she was upset that I didn't give her enough credit in front of the MC for the "loving things" that she does for me. (make my lunch, washes my clothes, hold my hand, etc.) We have never had a discussion where I have complained about her lack of ability to perform 'loving tasks'. Even during her A, she didn't let her day job suffer. She made sure that my needs were being met. To her it was a justification that her moonlighting (the A) wasn't interfering with her M. It was all about performing tasks and the validation for doing a good job. Anyway, my point is her concern was how she looked to the MC. She didn't care that I've always acknowledged her ability to meet most of my needs. The need for faithfulness was apparently not important enough. She is a positive mirroring junky.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 12:36 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she intermingles them into everything so it is minefield. It is like being married to a teenager.

Ironically, that's exactly what W said she felt like/usually behaved like (a teenager) in the few months after DDay when we were actually making a little progress. And yes, it's infuriating, I'm parent by proxy to a 30 something who feels like, emotes and communicates like a teenager.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even during her A, she didn't let her day job suffer. She made sure that my needs were being met. To her it was a justification that her moonlighting (the A) wasn't interfering with her M.

^^^ My wife even went so far as to 'do better' by me during the A. Not just about the justification as you mention but about assuaging guilt. So how was I supposed to know anything was wrong when she was over-compensating? All it did was to add to the trauma of finding out.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
nomoreplease
♂ Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't know the extent of her need for validation.
She didn't care that I've always acknowledged her ability to meet most of my needs.
I think part of it is that they become immune to our validation. Hearing the same thing from the same person year after year stops filling that hole. Then they use the easy justification that youíre her H you have to say those things, and now she just has to seek it from others.


'one walks away saying "I fought to save God's ideal," and the other must always admit, "I fought to destroy God's ideal!"'

Posts: 343 | Registered: Jul 2011
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even during her A, she didn't let her day job suffer. She made sure that my needs were being met. To her it was a justification that her moonlighting (the A) wasn't interfering with her M. It was all about performing tasks and the validation for doing a good job. Anyway, my point is her concern was how she looked to the MC. She didn't care that I've always acknowledged her ability to meet most of my needs.

I am just curious as to whether any of them recognize that part of a spouse's job is to at least try to avoid doing something that will become a psychological and emotional drain of epic proportions.

That is something that really drives me crazy. I am not sure how they don't fully get that they have harmed the family units opportunity to survive and thrive.

By way of an odd analogy, it would be like one member of a predator pack that, just for the hell of it, decided to continually alert the prey just when it was in striking distance. Self sabotage.

(I know, that was weak)


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So how was I supposed to know anything was wrong when she was over-compensating?

Mine was the same way. If anything I thought (stupid me) that our relationship was fine during the A. Nothing in our routines changed. All kinds of "I love you" e-mails, talks of the future, plans, and bullshit that really led to my complete and total devastation when I found it it was just compensation for letting another man use her body any way he wanted so he would tell her she was pretty. It's all kind of fucked up - I could of handled it better if I thought there was a problem, but I didn't have a clue. But then again, since I wasn't ever supposed to find out, I guess that made it all better that all she had to do was keep up a very minimal routine (honestly, I asked very little of her) to keep me from getting suspicious. It makes R hard because I stop and try to say "what was the difference between then and now, except she isn't swallowing some dude's load every couple of weeks?" Total mindfuck.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred

It makes R hard because I stop and try to say "what was the difference between then and now, except she isn't swallowing some dude's load every couple of weeks?" Total mindfuck.

That was the exact train of thought that got me in trouble during the MC session. The MC wanted us to give examples of what the other was doing to demonstrate love. My mind immediately went to what can I identify that she is doing differently now to demonstrate love that she didn't do before except for NOT

letting another man use her body any way he wanted so he would tell her she was pretty

and I was coming up blank. Sucks! As she will tell you, it was never about the sex. Sex was payment to keep the emotional attachment intact. She needed her external validation really badly it seems.

[This message edited by thinkingclear at 1:11 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)]


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I missed a lot since this morning, and started to respond to some good quotes here before realizing that there were too many.

My BIL tried to warn me off before I married his sister. My wife actually treated me better and was more sexually available and more tolerant of my flaws than ever during the A. She took me for granted and didn't appreciate being married to a professional who earned a decent living so she could be a SAHM. My compliments to her didn't count, but some POSOM player's compliments really hit home, and lead to an A. She risked everything for the affection of someone who is objectively, a lowlife bottom feeder. She has self-esteem issues and a desperate need for external validation, and a seriously fucked-up FOO.

There must be a factory somewhere that cranks these women out, because we're all married to one of them.

ETA: Now that I think about it, the "factory" I mentioned earlier is really a bunch of mini-factories called batshit crazy moms and, in many cases, wayward dads that abandon the family. My wife suffered from both as a kid. Now that I'm out of the happily-ever-after-marriage fog, I realize that my wife never really had a shot at being emotionally healthy. She never saw an example of it growing up and wouldn't recognize it if she saw it. She actually held it together remarkably well until she turned 40.

I'll give her credit for this, she's trying like hell to fix herself and make things right. But so much damage has been done. Whoever said that R is not for the weak really nailed it, only 4 months in and I have to agree.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 1:19 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

STBXWW is very insecure and her selfesteem is highly contingent on what others think and say about her. Her need for validation trumps everything from rational thought to appropriate boundaries

^^^ this
Pure gold. Shows motive
Isn't this one of the prevailing themes when you boil it all down.
My WW was always concerned with what others thought of her. Whenever we met a new couple or she befriended another woman or got a new job she would immediately begin to break them down, compare herself to them or point out their flaws to me. Especially women. She made sure I knew what was "wrong" with them.
Her friendships didn't last long and neither did her jobs. She created drama. There would be some big fallout.
She would say they were copying her or trying to be like her and write them off as crazy.
It was a joke to me. I used to guess the length of a friendship of her newfound friend or job to myself
And all the time she was doing it about me to others to invalidate me.
Of course shell fuck someone else if they appeal to her esteem.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
thinkingclear
♂ Member
Member # 38884
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate to keep interjecting but a quick update. I really do have a full schedule today, but it feels good to get this crap off my chest. I've been playing it cool with WW since this morning just like Betrayed444 suggested.

Last text from her:

If I haven't said I love u I should have shame on me I LOVE YOU

I'm so getting some of that cologne tonight.


BS - Me
WW - Her
10 month EA/PA

Posts: 211 | Registered: Apr 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

factory - for sure. batshit crazy familial background - check.

And yes,

compare herself to them or point out their flaws to me. Especially women. She made sure I knew what was "wrong" with them.

just add "I always was better friends with boys than girls in chat rooms <replace this with her favourite social setting/affairing hunting grounds>, girls are always bitchy and petty" (yeah hon, i'm sure its not because the men are all attempting to get into your pants virtually or physically and are lauding you with all that external validation you are lapping up in spades.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate to keep interjecting but a quick update. I really do have a full schedule today, but it feels good to get this crap off my chest. I've been playing it cool with WW since this morning just like Betrayed444 suggested.

I'm telling you dude it works!!
If she starts to act up about it act non Chalant. You've been busy. Laugh. Be pleasant.
This has to be your new normal. Aloof. Not easy to get ahold of but nice when it happens. Those texts will get more and more loving. Watch. Try it. Don't let yourself get called on it.
If she comes home and you have a new cologne her head will spin. Do it
Don't say anything. She'll notice
She may not say anything.
I just got home. Sent one text today consisting of
"Hey you!"
Now she's scrubbing the bathroom and bought me a gift.
It's about respecting yourself
And that's powerful

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yeah hon, i'm sure its not because the men are all attempting to get into your pants virtually or physically and are lauding you with all that external validation you are lapping up in spades.

And you can add to that - And the other women probably see right through your bullshit, hon.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honestly, I asked very little of her

Same here Tred. As a matter of fact, and you could argue this is wrong too, but I didn't ask anything of her. I figured if I couldn't get it myself then I'd have to improvise, adapt, and overcome... Actually, now that I write that maybe that doesn't really build intimacy either...whatever. To late now, have to work on that if there is a next go around.

Anyway, my point was that I didn't ask for anything. My wife had it easy from my perspective. While she was in the land of chocolate blowjobs and compliments galore from OM I was holding down the fort, doing everything but wiping her ass. At one point the subject came up of how hard she must have worked at keeping the A secret. Her response: "It wasn't that hard." I allowed myself to get used like no other.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While she was in the land of chocolate blowjobs and compliments galore from OM I was holding down the fort, doing everything but wiping her ass. At one point the subject came up of how hard she must have worked at keeping the A secret. Her response: "It wasn't that hard." I allowed myself to get used like no other.

WoW!!!

Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
numb&dumb
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Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, my W projected her feelings on to me so heavily that I gave up and sought IC. She thought that a previous relationship where I was cheated on "turned me into a paranoid person."

Yeah that must have been it.

The 3 years she kept me in the dark I was a very doting husband, kept a full time job (earned most of the money) did 90% of the domestic stuff, sent her flowers, etc. I was trying so hard to make her happy. The more I did the angrier she got. Little did I know.

Today things are not as "easy" for her as they once were. She has to do at least 50% of domestic stuff and the doormat guy got replaced with a distant, unromantic, and angry one. What a sweet deal she threw away.

It is odd my W doesn't get along well with women either. She tells me that women are too catty. Maybe were are onto something here.

I have used the term validation vampire. She had to get regular validation or she would die. After sucking me dry she went onto to someone else.

BTW Pun intended.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
nomoreplease
♂ Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If I think about starting to date again, Iím pretty sure:
I always was better friends with boys than girls
will be an instant dealbreaker for me.


'one walks away saying "I fought to save God's ideal," and the other must always admit, "I fought to destroy God's ideal!"'

Posts: 343 | Registered: Jul 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

numb & dumb,

Yeah, my W projected her feelings on to me so heavily that I gave up and sought IC.

I did this in 2007 when I thought we were having M problems. FWW convinced me that I was broken and needed help. I went to IC for 6 months, FWW went on to a new OM for the next 2+ years.

Like you I redoubled my efforts to be the good husband. MORE housework ( I was already doing about half), special gifts, notes, activities she wanted to do, etc.

After dday I could understand "falling" into an A. What really pissed me off was FWW flirting with, going on trips with, and fucking another OM while I am attending IC, inviting her to sessions (she refused), and clearly making an all court press effort to make her happy.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
slater13
♂ Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, June 11th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my WW has almost no girlfriends either...hmmm. It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. I was away for the weekend (doing guy stuff, I was driving my car at a local racetrack! which my WW hates- even better) and this thread got away from me. Damn- we all married the same woman! This thread is just GREATNESS. I am implementing the 3 text rule immediately.

I did mention to the WW last night after she asked how I was feeling, I said, " I have been thinking about how you de-humanized me during the A. I was just a projection of your beliefs. " Her reply after a long pause, "you're right. That's pretty much what I did." Her admission doesn't make it any easier to swallow though.


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

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