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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Noescape,

Some real good points there.


Which is where the fucking injustice of all this infidelity bullshit hits the hardest. The WS doesn't "get needs met" and instead of: 1) working on themselves to be an adult about it and take responsibility for their own happiness and 2) working with the BS to try and resolve the thornier issues (not all issues can be resolved though and that's just how life is-lump it), so they decide to blow up everybody around them for shits and giggles, and the BS is supposed to work with them now to 'fix' the M somehow?

I've heard that affairs happen in the space between "I don't want to leave" and "I don't want to do the work to change it" (I think I read it here on SI before). So they take the easy way out without regard to the damage they are going to cause. It's no surprise that the person who most often cheats is the one with the least investment in the marriage. My wife once told me that I couldn't of been happy during the period of our M where she was cheating, and I don't think she believed me when I told her I was. Of course I was happy - I was in the same marriage, but I was invested in the M, and taking care of my own happiness. Classic projection.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why can't they put 1/10 of the emotional energy into the M and their H's that they can into maintaining and hiding an A?

A's have a big advantage - no mortgage, or dirty diapers, or utility bills, or alarm clocks going off at 6:00 a.m. - marriages just aren't that sexy. And that whole commitment thingy is such a drag.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL, wert, SG et al say all this stuff so much better than me

don't fool yourself, that was very well said.
I think the truth of the matter is, WRT reconciliation after a wife cheats, is MOST couples will end up NOT in the classic "ideal" M.
I think that the vast majority of R'ing BHs will find themselves in more of companionship M than a dough eyed head over heals in love M. And since that is the majority, that is maybe what should be expected.
There are always exceptions, those who actually reach "better than ever" status, but those aren't the norm.

I would never say that my M is BTE, at least not at this point, but honestly, due to what I place high values on in a M(trust, fidelity,respect)its doubtful that BTE is even a possibility.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
jjct
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Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

noescape - Good one!
Fixing M issues alone only gives a surface veneer of things being OK while the bubbling mass of lava seethes underneath

"Fixing M issues" became a delaying and avoidance tactic for my X. I got to the point where I would not discuss the M. At all. Since she could never cobble up the introspection necessary to address the broken thing within her, well, I'm sure it was frustrating for her, but I could not allow myself to manipulated anymore.
In a very real sense to me, there was no M to discuss anyway. It was dead. She killed it.
(We could have had a new M, but she couldn't be Remorseful, Transparent, Honest, and NC - none of them)

Besides, 'M-talk' for the unremorseful is another trip down the rabbithole of this false narrative:

I was not that unhappy in the M.
To FWW’s thinking that was proof that she was being a good W.
OTOH, she was miserable, and that was proof that I was being a bad H and did not love her.

A custom-made mindworm for the white-knight guys, yes?

I will never read that book again.

Thanks for the new terms:
POSER & swole.
I started back up too, so it's too early to feel it in the gym, but I do feel somewhat swole in the morning.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is the link I promised:

http://mailmandelivers.net/passive-aggression/

There is also a file which I found through SI, though the link is gone now (i've created a new uplink); its a study cited in the new therapist magazine with an article by Tatkin going into some detail about how an avoidant acts in their primary relationship. Found it very relevant to my W.

(Note: I'm posting it up on dropbox, if its in violation of SI rules, could I ask a mod to please remove the link and apologies in advance)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7926434/TatkinInfidelity.pdf


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

noescape-
Academic articles are right in my wheelhouse, sir. Loved it. My wife fits the description of the ambivalent model to a 'T'. It's almost eerie how predictive certain FOO issues are with regards to attachment.

I half agree with the conclusion, though. Unless I didn't completely understand it, it seemed to me that the author's view was either:
A) That the primary dyadic relationship should be remodeled to 'work' with both actors' attachment styles. (Which, if true, is the part I disagree with)
or
B)That both partners should work towards achieving secure-autonomous attachment styles...which I'd imagine we phrase round these parts as "fixing your shit." (individually)

I don't get the impression that the author was saying that treating the symptoms of the affair are not important, but that until the attachment styles issues are worked through to a healthy model, you're basically just treading water. Overall, I lked it.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 8:01 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1618 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since she could never cobble up the introspection necessary to address the broken thing within her, well, I'm sure it was frustrating for her, but I could not allow myself to manipulated anymore.

thanks jj, getting there...


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP, glad you found it useful. funny enough my W swings between both ambivalent and avoidant but ticks ALL boxes related to the perceived threat from and reaction to the primary relationship.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
wert
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Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The reason is obviously because most affair recovery programs are focused on fixing the M without too much attention paid to inherent brokenness (of both WS and the BS), which is also why here on SI, you'll find the advise that MC is pretty pointless until the WS recognises and starts working to fix herself/himself. Fixing M issues alone only gives a surface veneer of things being OK while the bubbling mass of lava seethes underneath as atse pointed out.

That is great stuff and its the reason to keep pressing a WW to fix their shit.

I feel myself being in this in between space. I am becoming more comfortable living there. This stuff is not all or nothing. My W is working, but a life time of forging poor coping skills and messed up internal dialog is hard very hard to over come. I can see her looking for answers though. The rub for her and I think for me, is there is this life thing going on at the same time. Meaning, 3 kids, school, work, and toilets to clean. These aren't excuses but instead easy ways for hedgers and people who are prone to use avoidance as a soother to avoid. The rub for me is talking about these things consistently and ensuring through that dialog the work is being done.

There is this messy space between listening and demanding progress where many of us get lost. There is a resentment that I even need to be working on this crap that burns deep in me. I need to let that go - not for her, but for me.

My W doesn't blame the M for her A. It's not just lip service, she takes it on herself. I can see it. Trying to clean up that mess must really suck.

In recent pages I have been referred to as a 'vet' and used in the same sentence and WAL, SG, etc. I am 1.5 years out from d-day. I ain't no vet. I struggle daily with resentment, fear and pain. My internal dialog has improved massively. Introspection has defined me for the last year or so. I am not being self deprecating, but instead honest, in saying that their are many moments when I want to run, hide and give up. The struggle is never over.

For me the truth of being a BH is realizing that my W, while a part of the equation, is not the answer. I am. I am the only puzzle that I can figure. The only problem I can solve. As long as she keeps working and talks to me about, my take it what matters.

take it easy fellas...

ramble on...



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
greg888995
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Member # 29244
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A karma bus positive coupled with a negative vent (all arising out of the same event).

FWW, OM, and I are all marathon runners (FWW and OM were running buddies -- that is how they met, etc. etc.). Anyhow, I am much faster than OM.

We heard through mutual friends in the running club that OM just ran a ridiculously embarrassingly slow marathon this past weekend (in part because he's become a slobby fat bastard).

So, on the one hand, take that you fat SOB. MY all time slowest marathon (in which I had to walk three separate times) is still FASTER than your fat ass ever has or ever will run a marathon (and is easily 1 1/2 hours faster than your recent pathetic performance).

On the other hand, it doesn't change the fact that you fucked my wife.

Don't really need responses, just wanted to vent...


Me - BH (47)
Her - FWW (46)
Married 17 years
Together 19 years
3 kids
DDay #1 - 12/8/09 (EA)
DDay #2 - 12/18/09 (PA)
A ended - 2/21/10
R'ed - 2/19/11

Posts: 540 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Metro DC
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that the vast majority of R'ing BHs will find themselves in more of companionship M than a dough eyed head over heals in love M.

true, IMO, and I dunno why.

I was head over heels for this woman for years, now I feel very little for her-we get along, sleep in the same bed, but it's just not there anymore. She is the mother of both my fantastic kids, and I just dont feel love for her like I did.

Saddens me.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5360 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
slater13
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Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Neo- thanks for the article. I found it EXTREMELY insightful. My WW fits the Secure Avoidant to a "T". She has this belief that I am taking all the time and she must give give give, then gets resentful. The truth is, like others have said, when the marriage didn't provide me the happiness I needed, I found it elsewhere, in my hobbies. She has no hobbies and resents that I do. The article was great, thanks

64- I know exactly what you mean. My WW has been travelling this week, which usually triggers the hell out of me. Not this week. I have not called her once to check up. Today she said what a great week it has been for us.

She is mistaking my apathy for healing.

[This message edited by slater13 at 10:18 AM, June 6th (Thursday)]


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 154 | Registered: Apr 2013
Long Gone
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Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

greg....as a marathoner and ironman...I can follow your train of thought....even though I am probably way slower than you...I would dream of getting info on the OM in my case, but they are in a different city...no friends in our circle...nothing.

My OM was worse than yours....aside from being a fat slob...he wasnt into anything other than being a couch turd. My fww is a runner...has run a few 26.2s...but not obsessed like myself...she used that obsession as an excuse at first...


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 753 | Registered: Jun 2011
Later
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Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Man, you marathon guys -- my hat's off to you. I can recall back in my Army days I could run 4-6 miles without struggling. But 26.2? That's incredible to me.

Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But 26.2? That's incredible to me.

Same here. I ran almost a quarter-marathon last Saturday (6.3 miles, personal best) and have been patting myself on the back all week. I can't imagine 26.2 miles. Greg, LG, my hat's off to you as well.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is hard core brother. I salute all of you. Gotta scratch my head about a woman that cheats on a marathoner. But they are all crazy aren't they?
Last night I was enjoying a rum and coke. WW was bat shit all day because of the stress.
I initiate conversation about OM#2
Up to this point boys and girls the story was she abandoned my car in a parking lot because of suspected GPS issues and went to a party with a doctor 56 years old. Over 20 years her senior. Again, he looks like mr Bean. She said she drank and rebuffed his advances and slept in his guest bedroom.
Of course I called bullshit all this time.
Last night it was " I went to bed in guest bedroom, woke up naked in his bed. I remember nothing but I take responsibility for putting myself in that situation. "
Then added that he was upset because she refused to ever go out with him again.
I'm thinking about calling this asshole.
I also told her in my book that's rape. If it wasn't consensual and you said no before passing out then well call the Police.
She said she was irresponsible and didn't need anymore trouble.
It's funny. 2 days prior I filed a domestic violence report. She put holes in the wall, beat on me, and accidentally struck my kid and stole their Christmas money. The day after this party she was served with a protective order. She's fucked up. I wanna throw my hands up. It's almost comedic. Now she's like I found god and your welcome to join me and rebuild our family.
These events occurred between dec 6-dec 08 2012

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 11:46 AM, June 6th (Thursday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I am not that big into running. Really only do HIIT for weight loss. However, the thought of preparing for and running a 10k interests me. Just to have a goal to accomplish.

My biggest issue is trying to work out a schedule that works well with the different types of exercise.

My legs are always slow to recover from weightlifting - takes at least 2 days of rest before I am comfortable running after I lift.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444 I can relate. MY STBX said she wanted to know that someone still found her desirable. I thought, damn you sure stcked the deck in your favor. The OM is out of hsape, looks at least 10 years older than he is and he has a history of persuing any woman he comes in contact with.

As far as confronting, I am all in favor of it. I know most are not -- but I need it for myself. I even told her she was free to come along and see for herself what a cowardly little bitch her really is.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post and thanks
Stacking the deck. That's what it's about. Apparently, this sounds arrogant, I was too good and it lowered her self esteem.
Hence
I'll find someone that's worships me.
She's a physical trainer, I took the cert test for her, I bought her boobs, got her the job.
Now she looks for a nub cupcake that will say anything to get into her spandex.
Of course she was played, used, and abused.
Thing is I busted her for one and within a month it's number 2!
Of course the night of the domestic I told her it was over, called the cops, filed a report. She was on the street after threatening to hurt herself. She did end up at a friends.
On the 8th I spoke to her on the phone , she was crying as the deputies made contact and served her. I told her not to come home. That was the morning of her drunken fuck fest. That was something I did right. She must have felt like a million bucks.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 12:08 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
Long Gone
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Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, June 6th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Later....I do HIIT daily...tabata too...former BB and powerlifter...

I am 6'1 and 245.....I look like a circus bear on a toy bike during Tris....

but Ill say this...any 26.2 or 50K I run....It looks like 400 scrawy people running from the angry giant in the back of the pack.....lol


D-Day 11/26/10

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