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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Rye - I understand that intellectually, I have just always been suspect of it b/c it seems to easy to someone to slip into the mode of looking at their spouse's reaction.

I know it has to be a common problem, even for people who go into it for the right reasons.

BTW, I was away from her most of the day yesterday and was great. When I got around her again, my attitude when to shit. It wasn't anything that was said or done, I just felt like crap - distracted - while I was around her.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last post on BM thread which for me is unfortunate. I would appreciate it if this is the end of it and ya’ll can carry on, there is more important stuff in our lives than to keep this shit going.

BH, just like everyone else here. Same anger, pain, pissed that I have to say that.

Never said this should be a Recon thread. Understand there are people in all various places.

Was not taking pot shots at anyone, was most upset by the “veterans” who have no problem being a part of the vent of others. Even when they have seen people like DTOM go off the rails and become a Wayward just like me. If we see a pattern of abuse or vile, shouldn't it be addressed? Instead it’s like a bad AA meeting telling war stories. But that is accepted here so I need to step out. Got it.

My passion is to heal from being a BH/WH and if I can be a cautionary tale as well, awesome. Will not apologize for that, also will not apologize for being able to dig my trench as deep as the rest of you.

Good luck and I wish you healing for this insane shit we deal with.

[This message edited by hardlessons at 10:29 AM, May 31st (Friday)]


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was away from her most of the day yesterday and was great. When I got around her again, my attitude when to shit. It wasn't anything that was said or done, I just felt like crap - distracted - while I was around her.

And I think that right there is exactly why the 180 is a good thing. You need those breaks, you need that you time, you need to distance yourself from the craziness. It's for you. Granted you can't avoid your WW forever, but you can be the best possible you by focusing on you.

You got this my friend.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Drew_n_Va
♂ Member
Member # 31043
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's actually more fun than it looks. Despite what a lot of military journals say the Abrams is the best tank in the world. Hands down. The Republican Guard agrees.

Rye....agree on loud. Not so bad inside though.


Me: BH 50
her: fWW 41
Married 19 years
3 Beautiful Kids (14,8,6)
D-Day: 1-26-11
Status: Reconciled
"From Happy to Separated to Divorcing to living together again in 16 Days."

Endeavor to Persevere


Posts: 424 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Va
HereWeGo62
♂ Member
Member # 34766
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

<<<ate a lot of dust driving an M1 Abrams. Any other tankers here?

Spent 8 years in Armor. Started off in the M60a3 and then the M1a1.

"56 tons of pure hell"

I am new to this thread but have been around for awhile, my story is in my profile.

Hope to be of some help here.


If there is reincarnation I hope OM comes back as a low water flush truck stop toilet!

Posts: 304 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Tx
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks SG. I am really trying to focus on what I need/want.

I have no need to manipulate her into acting as though she wants R, she is doing that already. However, regardless of whether she knows or believes it's a false R, it is, in my opinion, a fantasy R. One where we simply forget about the past, do no work, and treat each other like newlyweds.

I know that is not reality regardless of her true intentions. Not to mention the fact that I have learned she can't be trusted. I am not sure she can even believe herself.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 11:00 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hardlessons,

You do not need to leave this thread, it was explained several times that you were grandfathered in and have every right to post in here as the other BS men.

If someone doesn't like it, they can find another place to post because its beyond rude to make anyone feel as if they don't belong.

Please know that you are welcome to continue to post.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...The Republican Guard agrees.

oh hell yes!!


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read fairly often down here... rarely post. Maybe I'll try to start contributing a bit more.

Right now I'm still a bit blown away about Ed O'Neill being such a badass at BJJ. Never knew that about him!


Posts: 4496 | Registered: Dec 2010
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Movie ideas involving BHs killing OMs

Can anyone give me an general idea where all these movie ideas occurred? Thought I've read through most of Part 9 and didn't see them there. I'd like to go read back even further but with 3 young kids just don't have the time.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, wrt madhatter status, this has always been a thread for Betrayed Men. Not Betrayed Men who were Never Wayward or Betrayed Men who were Never Addicts or Betrayed Men who were Always Perfect In Every Way. eta: This is meant to include madhatters as part of the thread, not exclude. Apologies if I was unclear.

This is about dealing with a cheating wife from a betrayed male perspective and always has been. If WAL were to suddenly say he is a madhatter, his words wouldn't matter any less in their significance on their own either. The healing process is different for everyone, and that's what set this whole thing off, so lets really not do this no madhatters allowed stuff again. It did not go well last time either.

Now:

Was not taking pot shots at anyone, was most upset by the “veterans” who have no problem being a part of the vent of others. Even when they have seen people like DTOM go off the rails and become a Wayward just like me. If we see a pattern of abuse or vile, shouldn't it be addressed? Instead it’s like a bad AA meeting telling war stories. But that is accepted here so I need to step out. Got it.

I assume I am the subject of this comment since you specifically called me out on it several pages back there. I'm really just tired of this whole argument. I did not participate in venting. I related, I cautioned, then my opinion was told to be wrong.

With all due respect hl, you going off the rails had nothing to do with the advice you may have received from this thread. I even remember giving you some and I believe it involved reading NJF.

You don't like it, fine. You don't have to. That doesn't mean I have to agree with what you say, or that we're all abusive maniacs because we don't immediately fall into line behind your opinion. If you want to further chase the discussion then making comments that it's like AA war stories or circlejerks is not the way to get a rational response.

I think it would be great if you continued posting, but I think it'd be even better if you were willing to consider an opinion other than your own, and if you still find it lacking then to disagree and leave it at that. Not everyone works the same way. Everyone is subject to the same hazards, and I include infidelity in that as well, but like the AA meeting you threw out there, not everyone involved here is a raging alcoholic.

Again, I'm sorry I was a dick before. It was unnecessary and I should have kept my cool, I have no idea what's going on in your life right now. Have a good weekend.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 3:16 PM, May 31st (Friday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7096 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Drew_n_Va
♂ Member
Member # 31043
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hwg62.....we might have eaten some of the same dust. I was in during the same time as you.


Me: BH 50
her: fWW 41
Married 19 years
3 Beautiful Kids (14,8,6)
D-Day: 1-26-11
Status: Reconciled
"From Happy to Separated to Divorcing to living together again in 16 Days."

Endeavor to Persevere


Posts: 424 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Va
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Metacommentary:
You do what works for you, whatever that happens to be. When that stops working, you do something else.

That's it.

There aren't any silver bullets. There aren't any manuals or ProTip tutorials. What we have here are collections of experiences that work for some guys, work for awhile, work in some phases but fail in others, etc., etc.

What works looks much more like a coherent plan in hindsight than it does in the middle. When you get to be a vet, you're more like the War College dissecting past battles and seeing what lessons can be learned for the next conflict (and if you're smart, learning that all of those lessons are likely going to be wrong).

I'm going to say this again, because I think it needs t be said: I don't regret a single step on my path to healing. There's not a single thing I look back at and think, "Man, I wish I'd handled that differently." Each step along the way was necessary.

Not a word spoken in anger, a weakness ruthlessly exploited, an unwarranted act of kindness, or a time that I let a ground ball go by. None of it.

Doesn't mean there weren't times I felt lost, lonely, directionless, abandoned, pissed off, impotent, alone against the world, biding my time, acting like a doormat, scared of change, fearful about the future, gut full of bile and lead. Whatever.

Standing on my own two feet through that shit helped me remember that I was going to be okay.

Somebody is going to ask the question (because someone always does): where are the lines? Where are the boundaries? That is, it's all well and good to talk about doing whatever it takes to heal and wandering from one method to another, but aren't there rules?

Rules like: no physical violence, no verbal abuse, no fucking other people, no going out for ice cream by yourself, no mixed gender softball leagues, no hording what you really think to share only with your lawyer.

Pick your list. I don't believe in lists. You do whatever you can within the bounds of being able to look at yourself in the mirror. Sure, entitlement is always going to be a risk. If you're not mindful, it might ruin your marriage. It might lead you down paths you wouldn't have gone down otherwise.

By all means, be mindful. But legalism is just as dangerous a route to travel. So, be mindful of that, too.

Above all, be good to yourself. Be gentle. Be forgiving. Extend grace to yourself, because that's a habit, too.

One of the things I admire about VD2012 is that he knows he's a guy who had anger issues in the past. He worked hard to overcome it, and chose (mindfully) not to include the old coping mechanisms in his healing path. That had nothing to do with his wife, you understand, but with protecting that guy in the mirror. He did not want to be "that guy".

We've all got an image of "that guy" that we don't want to be. For some of us, "that guy" is a pussy who lets his wife run all over him and keeps taking her back because he doesn't want to be alone. For some, "that guy" is the guy who forgives everything and never gets back his pound of flesh. For others, it's "that guy" who acts like a dick, holds on to his hurts, and makes everyone around him uncomfortable.

I know who my "that guy" is. VD and HL know who theirs is. I can say pretty categorically that they're not the same guys, and the paths we've travelled to get where we're at reflect that.

Reminds me of Bigger in JFO. Bigger used to give incredibly useful advice to n00bs back in the day (maybe still does -- I don't get down to JFO very often). It was all about figuring out what you wanted, devising a plan, then executing it. If you wanted R, that meant like acting you wanted R, regardless of the boiling cauldron of feelings inside you.

Great advice. Helped lots of people.

Not my cup of tea.

See, Bigger is a plan guy. Plans and goal-oriented thinking. Bigger is a great resource for developing a business plan or a devising a night raid on an entrenched enemy position. I have immense respect for Bigger. he's hepled hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of guys over the years...but his approach was and is completely lost on me.

I am not a plan guy. I'm a figure-it-out guy. I'm a shoot from the hip guy. I didn't mind sitting in limbo for a couple of years while I was deciding what I was going to do...because, unlike Bigger, I hold it as a personal conviction that outcomes are incidental. I never had in mind some iron clad goal of saving my marriage.

My goal was to heal and to like myself in the process. See, because even though I love my wife, I don't believe in star-crossed love or soulmate schmoopies or whatever we're calling it this week. I don't believe that marriage is the most important or defining experience of my life.

I don't believe -- even in the absence of infidelity -- that I'm the sort of guy who would have looked back on my life at 85 and thought about all the hard times my wife and I made it through together, and consider the fact that we made it through leaning on each other as the capstone of my existence. I'm not dissing that idea, just saying that for me personally, it would rank right up there with the perfect attendance trophy I got in 4th grade.

Just not the way I'm built. Marriage is a circumstance in life, not a reason for being. I realize that people have different feelings on that, weigh it on a different scale than I do. I'm not advising you to adopt my stance here. What I do know is that the time period I spent thinking daily about the quality and direction of my marriage were the most miserable three years of my entire human existence. I didn't start to feel free until I stopped giving as much of a shit and stopped doing the things all the relationship books and infidelity boards told me I "should" be doing to have a happy and fulfilled marital life -- because all of those programs are about somebody making money trying to sell you an idea of what will make you happy.

Thinking about all the things I can do to improve my marriage does not make me happy. So it's a non-starter. Like I've said in the past, I don't believe all of this shit about marriage is hard work. I've already got a full-time job. If marriage is going to be another fucking job, then somebody had better be cutting me a check, because I don't need marriage to "complete me" or keep me from feeling alone, lonely, and desolate.

(This is not a license to be a selfish dick. Most people are not, I believe, selfish dicks as a rule, so this "work" peple refer to in the context of marriage looks a whole lot more to me like finding ways to manipulate your spouse into being a mirror image of yourself rather than their own human being...and then just, you know, getting the fuck along with them. Srsly. This whole marriage help cottage industry of therapy, books, guidelines, articles, blah, blah, blah is the very definition of a First World Problem. If you spent more money on MC and marriage materials and aids in the last year than you did on healthcare or food to feed your family -- you, my friend, are the fucking 1%.)

Know who you are. You want to throw your disposable income at something worthwhile? Throw it at that. Throw it at figuring out who you are outside of the context, detritus, and driftwood of being a husband. Be the guy you want to be; be the guy you aspired to be when you were 14 and imagining what your life was going to be like.

Everything else falls into place once you've got a handle on your core identity. Whatever hijinks your wife gets up to are less immediate -- less personal -- when you start to know your own core self, and know that no matter what happens, you've got your back.

We forget that. So many of us transition from the hormonal uncertainty of our young adulthood to thinking of ourselves as an inseparable unit with this person who has come along to complete us. We get so used to having a crutch that we forget we're not lame.

We forget that we can plan our own hair cuts, our own doctor visits. We forget that we can buy our own underwear. We come to expect that nagging that we don't take care of ourselves, don't eat right, don't do x, y, or z like we should. We let our self-care erode, abdicate that responsibility to our "better half".

It's bullshit. We all do it. And then we say things like, "I don't know where I'd be without my wife to take care of me."

Why? I have no fucking clue, but I suspect it has more than a little to do with expending all of our time and energy making someone else happy because it's less invested work and uncertainty than embracing ourselves, who we want to be, and the risk of failing to attain what we really desire.

"I had a great marriage" is the consolation prize for those who can't say "I lived an awesome life". Maybe you score it differently. That's okay if you do.

Do whatever it takes to heal, then have the courage to take the next step and get the life you want. That last part is still, and hopefully will always be, a work in progress.

Sorry for reposting your entire thread from a few pages ago but it is great stuff. This forum needs to have a WAL folder where he can post all his wonderful advise to make it easier to find. Thanks WAL!


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Double post - Sorry

[This message edited by ReunitePangea at 12:07 PM, May 31st (Friday)]


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it just me or does anyone else hear the faint underscore of baritone monks chanting while they read WAL's posts?


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
greg888995
♂ Member
Member # 29244
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I rarely post in this forum, but read it religiously. I suspect there are many lurkers like me who gain such valuable insight from everyone's posts. Yes, some posts apply to my personal situation and some don't. To some posts, I say "yes, that's exactly how I feel" and to others "meh, that's not me." But it is all extremely valuable (at least to me it is).

I quote Thomas Jefferson:

For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.

Every voice that posts on this forum has merit and I hope every voice continues to speak. There are many of us who are eagerly listening.


Me - BH (47)
Her - FWW (46)
Married 17 years
Together 19 years
3 kids
DDay #1 - 12/8/09 (EA)
DDay #2 - 12/18/09 (PA)
A ended - 2/21/10
R'ed - 2/19/11

Posts: 540 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Metro DC
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Know who you are. You want to throw your disposable income at something worthwhile? Throw it at that. Throw it at figuring out who you are outside of the context, detritus, and driftwood of being a husband. Be the guy you want to be; be the guy you aspired to be when you were 14 and imagining what your life was going to be like.

Everything else falls into place once you've got a handle on your core identity. Whatever hijinks your wife gets up to are less immediate -- less personal -- when you start to know your own core self, and know that no matter what happens, you've got your back.

We forget that. So many of us transition from the hormonal uncertainty of our young adulthood to thinking of ourselves as an inseparable unit with this person who has come along to complete us. We get so used to having a crutch that we forget we're not lame.

We forget that we can plan our own hair cuts, our own doctor visits. We forget that we can buy our own underwear. We come to expect that nagging that we don't take care of ourselves, don't eat right, don't do x, y, or z like we should. We let our self-care erode, abdicate that responsibility to our "better half".

It's bullshit. We all do it. And then we say things like, "I don't know where I'd be without my wife to take care of me."

I love this section, it really hits home. There's so much about the guy I became prior to D Day that I don't like. A domesticated shell of a man who worked every day, then came home and either vegged in front of the TV watching whatever the world of sports or the history channel had to offer, or discussing with the wife what we should have for dinner that night. Arguing over the best way to discipline one of the kids for whatever it was she was doing wrong at the time, griping at each other for perceived slights.

What happened to the guy who golfed, played racquetball, hung out with other guys, tossed a football or baseball around, or met other guys after work for a beer or two? In other words, who enjoyed life separate and apart from his wife. A wife who "completed me" by making herself one with another man, behind my back, for 11 months.

A wife who let it be known over a period of almost a year that I was absolutely dead last on her list. A distant 7th place behind her, her lover, and our 4 kids - in that order. Not someone deserving of her fidelity and loyalty.

Message received, Hon. I'm now going to enjoy life and my children in a way I haven't allowed myself to do so before discovering your capacity to betray, disregard, and disrespect me. If that involves good times with you, and I suspect it will, then that's great. If not, I'm ok with that to. If we're able to move past your treachery and rebuild a great marriage, that's wonderful. If we can't, well that's the price of your selfishness I suppose. We both lose. But I'll be fine either way. And I'll dedicate my life to making sure our kids are fine, too.

We can't get enough WAL on this site.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Mikey56
♂ Member
Member # 38063
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Every voice that posts on this forum has merit and I hope every voice continues to speak. There are many of us who are eagerly listening

^^^Agreed...now back to lurking.......


Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2013
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it just me or does anyone else hear the faint underscore of baritone monks chanting while they read WAL's posts?

So it's not just me?

We're not worthy.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
gutpunch33
♂ New Member
Member # 36484
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, May 31st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too am a lurker and enjoy the male banter on this forum. I'm very fortunate (sick irony) that my fWW "only" had a one night stand and has owned everything from DDay forward. Not sure I could have endured any more than that and remained married. She's in therapy to deal her FOO issues and is showing me daily her commitment to me and the M.

My question to the gang: Do any of you every sit back and think "well shit, if I had known I was going to have to do all of this work to improve my marriage (an M that I was very happy) that my fWW thinks needs so much work, why the fuck didn't I mess it all up by fucking some hot chick and beat her to the punch?" Does anyone besides me feel cheated in some way now that you know your wife is capable of destroying the marriage? It's kind of like her taking the big vacation trip to the Islands and you get stuck just paying the bill. Wouldn't you have liked to have taken a nice trip too seeing how you are going to pay for it anyway


Posts: 25 | Registered: Aug 2012
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