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User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really, because this was said a couple pages back by someone I won't name...


I won't beat her physically because it's illegal and I don't hit woman, so I beat her verbally when I get like this. And then I resent her for making me like this.

The name is Sal1995, and I stand by it. And any man on this site who denies having ever felt like that post D Day, even once, is full of shit IMO.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1025 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And I didn't extol the virtues of verbal abuse, quite the opposite. I resent like hell that her outrageous acts of betrayal have put me in that frame of mind because that's not me. I haven't been me since February 17, 2013, when I discovered things about my wife no man wants to discover. And this seemed like a safe place to vent these feelings, but maybe I read the landscape wrong.

Look, if some of you guys are in a much better place than the rest of us, good for you. You are my heroes, really. I'd love to get out of the abyss and get to where you are, but the sad fact is I'm not there yet. If it's ok I wouldn't mind expressing that every once in awhile.

And I realize that written words lack much of what we get from spoken words, like tone, but I would think most of you can recognize things like hyperbole. Truth is, what my wife has done to me constitutes abuse - we're talking about acts, not words. I've said very little to her that rises to the level of "abuse", unless accurately describing her acts, aka the truth, is abuse. If it is, so be it.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1025 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Later
♂ Member
Member # 39375
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hell, I have said some "mean" things and then turned around and said "I am sorry, I try to control it, but you can expect more of it in the future I am sure."

She says she understands.

I control it most of the time, but I don't worry about it when I don't.

I do the best I can, appreciating that I don't really like doing that and that anyone is going to become defensive when the hear too much. Oh well.


Posts: 384 | Registered: May 2013
VD2012
♂ Member
Member # 36317
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Sal, didn't want to call you out (as it's unnecessary and didn't wish for an issue) but your post did exemplify what I was saying. Also, I guess I'm full of shit.

Resentment is such a terrible thing. Now THAT is what really eats away at you. Just sits there doing nothing productive. Anger, you can at least focus for good use if you know how (I never learned how, so I found alternative ways). I think my father may have beat my ability to resent people out of me, or perhaps it was my mother. I can't remember. I quit letting what other people do affect me a long time ago. Not saying what people do doesn't affect me, it does obviously, but it doesn't affect who I am.

Binding my own choices to those of my wife isn't my thing. I'd rather not be a victim blaming my wife for how I choose to act, regardless of what addled brained fucked up thing she may say or do. She doesn't own me, control me, dictate shit for me and never has. I'm my own man, and I don't resent her for anything nor did I ever want to verbally abuse her.

Have I in the past? You bet, and I was a piece of shit for doing so because not only did it hurt her, I hurt myself doing so. And I used to always have the great excuse of "well, it's your fault I'm so pissed", and she will agree to this day because she caused a lot of shit in our life or at least let it happen. The problem is, even if righteous in my anger I chose to use it in a way that wasn't okay. At least to me. Because deep down (and it took too long for me to realize -as far as I'm concerned) it really was hurting me in terrible ways. So I stopped hurting myself. That was the most important thing I could do. As WAL very accurately described, I didn't want to be "that guy" anymore.

I resent like hell that her outrageous acts of betrayal have put me in that frame of mind because that's not me.

That's the thing, it is you. At least now it is. Her infidelity has changed you. Own it, accept it, and change it if you want. That's on you. You choose how you react. It fucking sucks I'm sure. I can't really say my wife's infidelity changed me too much, I already was changing for the better for a couple years before this shit happened. I've just continued that process while adding on needing to recover from her bullshit.

It honestly just comes down to you have to work on yourself Sal. Yes, your wife did this to you. Mine stabbed me right in the back trying to cripple me too. But there comes a point when you have to accept the reality of your situation, choose what you want to do, and work toward getting there for yourself. If you were left with nerve damage giving you a limp from that knife to the back, being bitter about your circumstance won't change a thing about needing to do physio to recover. My uncle was wheel chair bound for most of my life, he was such a vibrant amazing man when I was younger and one of my few decent family members. I'm the last person who saw him alive, and it was such a sad pathetic waste of life. I love him, but fuck did he just give up and suck down on that bitterness hard. I refuse to be an emotional cripple because of someone else's actions.

I don't expect you to think or react like me. Hell you're only a few months out. What some people don't realize about me around here (though those who do know me totally get it) I hit this shit running. April 19, 2012 may be my D-Day but my conception started me into terrible life altering shit. My life has been one trauma after another, and this is just like the others. I'm hardened, I'm resilient and I persevere. Not because of "fuck them" but because "I'm fucking awesome". You need to get into that state of mind, and I know it's easier said than done. It took almost my whole life, and I know 27 years doesn't look like much but I've lived enough lifetimes during it to be considered a geriatric.

Also I personally don't believe in the timelines a lot of folks talk about around here. I accept that there may be commonality to how people process things and what phases they typically may go through. But I've never been one to follow the pack. We all choose our own path one way or another.

Being in a better place is a matter of perspective and situational. I'm in no better place than anyone else really as I'm not you or them. I'm in my own place; whatever I choose that to be. You may think that comes from being farther out from my D-Day but I've been like this since 2 months out mostly by choice. I'm in a better place than where I was, but I'm not where I want to be. I'm working on that, and am now incorporating my wife into that as well. Hell I'm just now coming to realize I've been half checked out of my marriage for a whole year without noticing, despite thinking I was "all in" the whole time. That's how focused I was on myself during this.

And honestly, yeah I agree with what your wife did as abuse. My wife abused me worse than anyone has in my life by doing what she did. Physically, mentally and emotionally. And let me yell ya, I've been fucking abused. What she did eclipses everything else, not even hyperbole. Everyone who's been betrayed has been abused there's no question there. However, at least in my eyes, there's no need to head down that path yourself in any way. Not worth it.

Just eats away at who you want to be.

Anyways, I've gone on enough. I genuinely mean it when I say I wish you well with your own journey through this shit, however you get through it. Just make sure you do it healthily.

WAL,

Tremendous post and a great place to leave this shit show behind. Though, must say, not much to admire about me. I'm just a guy doing my own thing. Thanks though.


I never had in mind some iron clad goal of saving my marriage.

Everyone should have that in mind as far as I'm concerned. It should be about saving yourself. If your spouse wishes to save themselves in the meantime, all the better, but not necessary.

Everything else falls into place once you've got a handle on your core identity. Whatever hijinks your wife gets up to are less immediate -- less personal -- when you start to know your own core self, and know that no matter what happens, you've got your back.

Spot on and perfectly said.


Me: 28 ~ Her (FR2012): 27
Together: 9 years, 2 children
D-Day: April 19, 2012

Surrender to the truth of life.


Posts: 466 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Traversing Dark Places With The Light of Truth
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal, I could've written what you said in the last page, the similarities in our sitch are striking.

VD, HL, WAL, SG .... Great stuff , carry on.

WAL, as usual, you've given me a lot more to think about and act on, thank you.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I saw but you used what he called it and reinforced your beliefs in agreement while tossing out a bunch of vulgarities. So my question still stands, regardless of what hardlessons said.

What, your question that it's that way because I say so? No. That answer was already provided and further, putting words in my mouth and trying to make them stick is not going to accomplish a damn thing.

OTOH you calling this thread a one-upsman circlejerk is reinforcing that. Which was another comment I took issue with. If you want to take everything I said, everything everyone else said on the last half dozen pages and distill it down to a fucking fart joke also, then go for it, but I took time to carefully choose my words to explain my thought process and why I felt the way I felt.

So you know what? If you're going to trash my opinion and the opinion of everyone elses and dump a load of obscenities on me for it, don't fucking expect any more than that, either of you.

I don't really care. I've heard that excuse from my daughter way too often lately. "No, but he did". Hell, that excuse doesn't fly over in the wayward forum, or anywhere else actually. You're a grown man, you can act like it. Don't mean that to sound harsh, but really look at how you're coming off.

If you don't really care then don't bring it up.

This is nothing to do with buthediditfirst so turning that around won't accomplish anything either. This is me calling bullshit on what you said. Simply put, I did not ramp up a bunch of hostile posts, I got sick of HL doing that and snapped off an asshole post of my own for which I apologized.

If you want to look at that as an excuse then how about you tell me why the last eight pages you've done nothing but be a condescending asshole and throw poop at the walls? Don't bother trying to explain that you haven't been doing any such thing, or I'll call it out as an excuse.

You're welcome to show me where I've been throwing out ad-homs to a ridiculous depth aside from that post for which I apologized, but I can't force you to interpret my words past how you want to. if you want to read messages into them that aren't there, it's not my responsibility to agree with you. Go ahead and grab a few and ask how they're not insulting if you like and I can address them specifically but I'm not interested in "but what you REALLY mean is" shit.


Why? Has your name been disparaged? Your honour wounded? Your ego smushed? Pride torn asunder? No, some guy on the Internet said shit you didn't like. You chose to respond the way you did. I even said good on ya for apologizing. Though the initial rant didn't need to happen.

And the thing is hardlessons wasn't initially saying a thing to you, he was addressing someone else. You chimed in. You'd have nothing to respond to had you left it be.

I just found it odd to see someone like you, a veteran of this site with quite a bit of insight and knowledge behind you, and a hefty vocabulary to boot, resorting to such vitriol. I also can't stand the mob gang up mentality.

Why are you doing the same? How do you see yourself as any better or different? What is the point of that question for you?

HL specifically referenced me when I responded a few pages back to him. Otherwise I would not have got involved in that mess.

There is no mob mentality. This persecution complex stuff needs to stop. If you want a rational conversation you can only rant irrationally so long before people stop trying to be rational with you, and you give up the right to bitch about that. That is what happened with HL as far as I am concerned.

Fine and dandy. But there's incredible merit in what hardlessons is saying and those his message is being drowned out by are doing a disservice to those who may need to hear it. Everyone needs to be challenged on their beliefs once in awhile, it's where growth and long term healing come from.

See, this is the issue: nobody is arguing with that. That is a fabricated problem. The real problem is that he - and possibly now you - appear to be unwilling to accept that opinion is not shared universally, and that people have other opinions.

What's that sound like to you?

I've never dismissed what anyone has said as bullshit. Please point out where I did. Addressing your post isn't dismissing anything.

What it sounds like is a poor choice of words cherry picked out of context and blown up to be something it isn't. If you have an issue with that then you should first respond to that specific individual regarding that specific comment before unloading on others and what you claim they support.

I've never dismissed what anyone has said as bullshit. Please point out where I did. Addressing your post isn't dismissing anything.

You and HL referring to this thread as a one-upsmanship circlejerk and demanding that a certain opinion be given precedence over others is dismissive. Your opinions have already been heard and acknowledged. HL's confrontational attitude and refusal to accept that other people may not see it his way is what got it to this point.


You also don't know the way I work StillGoing, so don't presume please. I get anger, I get rage. The way I used to be wasn't pretty. Closest I came to being the old me was looking my wife dead in the eye last June and in the most callous, venomous, hate filled way I could I asked "Did you like the taste of his cock in your mouth?"

If my wife fucked up before I started fixing my own shit years ago I'd make the lot of what is being said in here look like a boyscout meeting. I speak from experience as a person who used to make excuses for "venting" and "releasing it safely". It doesn't leave you, it stays and simply becomes easier and easier to do. Especially if you can hold onto the ideals of justice and have righteousness on your side long enough for it to corrupt before you without noticing. hardlessons gets that and was simply trying to point it out. Yeah he certainly could have taken the "gently here fellow brother, you're feeding into your anger and should focus on your own healing dude" approach but he didn't. Doesn't negate the message.

You're right, I don't know that and in fact said so in as many words several pages back to HL. If he knows that, great, but assuming that I do not simply because I have a different opinion on something is self important and condescending.


As someone who's been here so long and helped so many you should know the price and consequences of enabling and allowing poor coping mechanisms. And giving into anger in any way that isn't productive to self healing is just that.

I have already spoken on this subject in several posts on page 14 of this thread. I don't feel the need to revisit it.


Anyways my bladder just ran dry, so if you'd like to carry on be my guest. Just some honestly friendly advice, if you get this heated at words said to you via a message board just step away. Go cool off and come back with a clear head. Works for loads of situations in life, especially when it comes to the nature of a message board. We choose how to react and respond to things and no one has to click the submit button if they don't want to. There really is no need to blow up here.

Remember why we're all here.

Look, I get it.

What I am not okay with is people putting words in my mouth, or changing the meaning of words I have used. You're right, I should not have lost my temper. That has been addressed also.

What I don't get is the need to expand on this. It has gone far beyond what it needed to. If you have issues with something I said specifically, please put them down. Otherwise I think I have hashed this out enough and made myself as clear as I need to. Yes, I feel compelled to respond to posts calling me out, if it makes me look insecure then I look insecure. My tone has not been in anger except for the one obvious place, so again, don't assume how other people work either.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 6:19 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7101 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

<-- Actually something of a fan of resentment in moderation.

Resentment that takes over your life === bad. Resentment that reminds you to stand up for yourself because someone has proven they don't have your back === useful.

And yes, I pulled out the bitwise comparison for that.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 8:10 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A general reminder to all. Please post respectfully or your posting rights will be suspended. There's no need for the name calling or one-upmanship. We're all on the same team here.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35331 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bitwise comparison

If you do an exclusive or on WAL's premise you'll see that it comes out to be 0.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3301 | Registered: Dec 2011
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember the anger stage well, did many, many, things I am not proud of, said way too many things I am not proud of either. D-day I remember the fear in her eyes, she actually thought I would hit her. I felt like shit.
HL is pissed, sal is pissed, I was pissed. Normal male response to their betrothed on another guys pole, IMHO.

Anger stage-like all else, it passes.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And I didn't extol the virtues of verbal abuse, quite the opposite. I resent like hell that her outrageous acts of betrayal have put me in that frame of mind because that's not me. I haven't been me since February 17, 2013, when I discovered things about my wife no man wants to discover. And this seemed like a safe place to vent these feelings, but maybe I read the landscape wrong.

Nicely said. I do in fact agree with HL, but think he was a little heavy handed, high and mighty or however you want to say it. At times, we are not perfect in what we say, write or do.

I resent like hell that her outrageous acts of betrayal have put me in that frame of mind because that's not me.

Sal1995 - What are you doing about that? It took me a while to figure out that my reaction was the problem not my W's stupid antics. As WAL said resentment is not bad all the time, particularly in small temp doses. Temp is the key word I think. Which is why HL was calling you out making fun of your W.

I do think this is about distance and perspective. For a long time I called my W names, to myself, to others and to her. It took me a long time to realize that was counter productive to my healing, it wasn't who I wanted to be and wasn't healthy for R in the long run. Short run - it was what I needed. I got kicked in the proverbial crotch and by god I was going to kick back. It helped me separate, helped me detach, helped me hate her for what she did. I think that was healthy. Hate is underrated as a temp coping mechanism. Its real, deserved and can protect us for a while.

Long term I would argue not so good. Sal1995, from what you wrote you seem to understand that but aren't there yet, which is just fine. I remember at one point thinking to myself that I was saying those things to push her away because she was unsafe. That's not R (IMO), that's survival. Again, just dandy.

I do think with all this crap we need to be aware of where we and others are in the process. From reading this thread I think the conversation moved a long just fine. As my W said to me recently, it's OK to be pissed, disagree and be angry about stuff. Then what do we do? She is getting to be cool by the way.

That is the other thing to remember. Some of us are still with a WW who is not cool. Who is on the fence, still stupid or is struggling to figure out who the hell they are. Maybe those names are still justified.

Context matters a lot with this shit.

Just my two cent...

take care...




Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
Stillkicking
♂ Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thought this could get a few laughs:

http://dietrolldie.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/hurtfeelingsform.pdf

Disclaimer: this is not directed at ANYONE, it is only meant to get a few laughs, we need them


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, I guess I'm full of shit.

No, but I think you and I are putting different labels on the same type of behavior.

You posted on your bio that your wife became a terrible wife, mother and person in general. Pretty harsh. Did you ever express that to her verbally? Ever direct her to your bio on this site? If so, you "beat her verbally" using my standards.

I'm sorry you were abused VD2012, and in that light my use of the term was insensitive. What I was trying to express was giving my wife grief, berating her, busting her chops so to speak.

Abuse is a word that should not be tossed around lightly, and for that I apologize.

I appreciate the rest of your response VD2012 and look forward to many more friendly discussions with you.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1025 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...no going out for ice cream by yourself, no mixed gender softball leagues...

Fuck. fuckfuckfuck. I *thought* my man card was missing when I checked my wallet yesterday.

At the risk of coming off polly-anna-ish:
In all seriousness though, with regards to the current topic(s) of discussion: I think a lot of the advice here is completely relevant to a lot of people but it is 100% dependent on your personal circumstances and whatnot.
I *do* poke around in other forums, as I'm sure many of us do, and I'm sure many of us have seen guys one or two weeks after DDAY saying that they're in R, and doing well, and at the same time kinda/sorta taking some sort of blame upon himself for his wife's A.

A lot of the posts on here are 99% context. If a guy comes on here and asks for advice because he really wants to continue in R with his WW, but he's getting hung up on the sexual aspect, I don't know that telling him to view his wife as a "cum rag" (to use the current term of choice) is wrong. I always thought it was kind of assumed that the advice was being given with the concept firmly in mind that it would not be forever. I would imagine that *most* of the guys on here would agree that it's not a healthy or helpful way to view a significant other in any kind of healthy relationship, from a long-term perspective....but sometimes I think that we (those of us with less time under our beltss) just need a solution to get us over the *current* hump, and not every solution needs to be extrapolated as a long-term framework for relationships.

That being said, I get what HL is saying about that thought process being poisonous (paraphrasing here). I'm positive there is a danger for some guys who start thinking aabout their wives in those terms...because for some guys, once their thinking starts down that path they are unable to walk themselves back to the fork in the road, and follow the roaad marked "healthy relationship mindset."

You see that with guys who had fathers who conveyed the idea (or modeled it, whatever) that all women are whores who will eventually betray you when it's convenient...instead of it being set within a narrow context confined to one person/relationship/instance, it becomes their entire framework for viewing the female gender. There is a real danger in patterns of thinking becoming permananent (or semi-permanent)...but that's where individual discretion HAS to come in. You gotta know yourself.

Like WAL said, some of the advice here applies to us, and some doesn't. Some works for a while, until it doesn't. It really is a "one day at a time" process, and sometimes we just need to hear what we need to hear *today* to get us through until tomorrow....and so on and so forth until we look back and realize that it's become so long aand we're healed enough that it's just not a huge part of us anymore.

Not everything applies to everyone, you know? One of the things that gets tossed around on here quite a bit about the healing process for us BMs is to focuse on yourself for a while. Well, I never really felt like that applied to me, because I've always done that in my marriage. If I want to go work out, go play soccer, go to a movie, or go to lunch, I always have, throughout my marriage. I just knew that a marriage where I was miserable about missing doing stuff I wanted to do was not a relationship I'd want to be in...because I'd resent my wife for it. And honestly, I took it too far in that direction ocassionally where my *living life* probably went past "healthy guy" into "selfish guy" so part of the process of MC has been trying to be more equitable with that kind of stuff. My situation may be different than others. It's cool.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1587 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My next agenda item is to get us to stop referring to this thread as the "BM Thread".

Viable options include:

1. Menz Thread
2. BD Thread (betrayed dudes)
3. Dudes Thread (though incorrect given the implied possessive -- but we don't give a shit about grammar and punctuation)
3. BGTABS Thread (Badass Guys Talking about Badass Stuff)

Betrayed spouses already get stuck with the "BS" label. Adding potential poop jokes into the mix is just insult to injury.

(Note: Not in any way suggesting we change the actual thread titles, just the way we internally and externally refer to it when we're talking about the thread as an object or destination.)


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me try to explain a little my pushback to you, VD.

For you, this revolves around anger. It's something you dealt with and made a huge effort to win out over.

I was not pissed off until the comment I made in response to hl's final response. Like I said in my apology, it was uncalled for and you're absolutely right when you say we don't have to hit submit. In that regard everything you said is correct.

What drags at my heels is not anger, it's gaslighting.

I have never yelled at my wife. I've called her a bitch once and a fishwife once an even longer time back. I have never placed hands on her except one time I feel absolutely justified in, and I refuse to give details on that as it is no longer an issue; suffice to say she was never in danger of being hurt and I was in protective mode.

The gaslighting for me was many, many years of people telling me what I really think, of what my words really mean. It was many, many years of me not being heard, and to such a degree I question the validity of everything I say and think and look at my motives in minute detail. It was not until some time around dday that I told my wife "You do not get to tell me what I am really thinking. You do not get to tell me what I am really feeling, or what I really mean. You get to ask me about it and discuss it with me."

In response, I push back when I feel that what I have said has been overlooked in favor of what someone wants to see.

I have never advocated anger or abuse in any form. I have advocated a more reasonable understanding of the anger of others and their choice of outlets. I have been the one to come down on people, *in this thread* when they choose to speak of *all* former wayward wives in a derogatory and nasty way. Ask Mypoorboys if he's around, you can go back looking for it if you want, but I don't remember which iteration of this thread that went down in. I believe we parted ways there amicably.

I'm also an advocate for R on the BS terms and will go to the mat for that. I am also a firm believer that a WS has as much a choice to make amends as they do to cheat and will be just as vocal in that as I will in other things.

What I am not an advocate of is the bulldozing of the perspective of others, especially when they are at the point of this process that is one of the most confusing of all and easily leads towards anger. You have had anger issues and see that danger clearly, yes, but these dangers are always magnified most by those who have defeated them. It's hard for people who have defeated toxic shame to see shame as a potentially healthy emotion as well - but shame and anger can both be normal and healthy.

What is normal and healthy for one person may not be the same for another. What is normal and healthy for me is the purity of semantics involved. I need to ensure my statements are clearly communicated, whether I am rambling or succinct, and I have a strong pushback reaction when I feel my words are being manipulated - even when that is done so inadvertently. It's not anger, but it does nag, and probably for the very same reasons the anger issue sticks so hard with you.

I can see how the Q&A quoteback stuff can be seen as angry, and would like to edit it enough to change the tone but I don't think that is entirely necessary or even useful at this point. I would like this to resolve amiably but there is no beer available, so I am open to suggestions.

eta:

My next agenda item is to get us to stop referring to this thread as the "BM Thread".

The Angry Marines thread?

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:50 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7101 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WAL,

I'd stay away from BD, it's an ampersand away from a totally different meaning...I like Menz thread...MT? Menz?

SG,

The Angry Marines thread?

Don't the Army pukes whine enough as it is ?

Edited to capitalize the A in Army...(man they whine about everything... )

Note - my dad was a SSG, did 4 tours in Nam. His flag is proudly displayed on my wall. My comments are what is known between inter-service agencies as "ribbing".

[This message edited by Tred at 11:20 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3301 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I resent like hell that her outrageous acts of betrayal have put me in that frame of mind because that's not me.

Sal1995 - What are you doing about that? It took me a while to figure out that my reaction was the problem not my W's stupid antics.

wert, right now I'm venting to her, but only about once or twice every 7-10 days. I vent here daily, and we're going to MC/IC. I'm also finding distractions, like teaching our 6-year old twin boys how to play baseball. I'm also spending time with a local BH who is an SI lurker, and a really good mentor.

It feels like I should be doing something more, but right now that's it.

ETA:

wert: "For a long time I called my W names, to myself, to others and to her."

Unfortunately I've slipped into that mode a few times since D Day, but generally that's not how it goes (except for the part about saying these things to myself). Calling my wife a faithless pig, for example. I believe that does rise to the level of abusive language, although it feels like self-defense at the time considering the level of "abuse" from my wife that prompted the reaction. But no excuse, bad behavior is bad behavior, whether hers or mine.

Thankfully these episodes have been the exception, not the rule. But I'm not at all proud of them, and nothing I've said on here is meant to extol the virtues of that kind of hurtful and damaging language.

I think our perspective is different based on where we are in the healing process. For instance, when I read that B444 took his wife skydiving, and dammit, the parachute opened, I hear: "I love my wife and took her skydiving because I still want to do things with her. But this hurts like hell, so I joke about it to keep from going crazy."

Similarly, "cum rag" quotes strikes me this way: "She's my wife and I still want to make love to her, but sometimes the act itself is painful because of what she did with other men, so I have to detach emotionally to get through it."

Just a different way of looking at things. If a guy was making these comments 5 or 10 years down the line, then I think we have a problem. But inside of 1 year? I can relate.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 11:10 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1025 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
VD2012
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Member # 36317
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal, that's just where a misunderstanding comes into play. Semantics and perspective really. I'm more of literalist when it comes to words. If my few posts in here weren't an indication you're remarks aren't necessarily the one's that warrant concern. That sentence of yours though, it did point out what I wanted.

Case in point for instance, I disagree with WAL's stance on resentment. Why? Not that we likely disagree, but our views on the word and concept are different. We may well, and I do believe, tred down the same path in regard to the sentiment but I'm looking left at the ocean and he's looking right at the trees. Still probably the same path. Just different viewpoints.

With regards to my wife and what was said to her, then no I suppose I'm not full of shit by your standards. Yes, everything in my profile has been said to her. She even posts here herself on occasion. In fact, every post I make on here has already been run by her or read to her at some point (she's often my sounding board). I'm an open book. If she didn't like it, well tough shit. I don't rub things in her face and I don't vent anything toward her or even in regard to her because it isn't conducive to my state of being or healing.

Yet, I still will talk matter of factly about what she did. I don't shy away from it, I don't even care if it offends her. She was the best person I ever met, was a great human being, a wonderful partner for myself and the best damn mother possible. I'm not even putting her on a pedastal, she truly was amazing. She then pissed that all away because life caught up with her and she didn't deal with her shit. She's become all those things in my eyes again, and more, because she's owned her shit and finally started dealing with it.

Everything in my profile is true to the word about her. She'll agree. She was a terrible mother during those months, a terrible wife and a terrible person. It's not in there as a source of venting, simply for accuracy of the facts. My experiences I often speak about don't come from dealing with this shit, it's life experience. My wife spent months telling me I'd let myself go, she lost her spark for me, that sex with me was an obligation (she didn't seem to complain every night), that she'd thought about being with someone else and even said I wasn't her best friend anymore (that one hurt). And there was more. Our fucking cats hated her during the time. Seriously. (It may sound stupid but my one cat going near her again was actually a positive sign for me). And that was all before she let some fucking loser stick his half limp pencil dick in her because she didn't want her new "friend" to be disappointed or upset with her and figured she'd already wrecked our relationship.

And how was I during all of that? The same way I am now (though thinking of divorce honestly since my life is too short to deal with any more bullshit from anyone). Sure, I had a few terrible rough days and have had more than a few crying fits. I was pissed for months on end, but outside of acting like a total psycho one day, I chose my reactions. And that included knowing that "what a bitch" muttered in my head or "you had no problem fucking him then" had no place in my mind. If you let it, it takes hold and doesn't let up. Many people do not know their limits and often overstep them and regret it. You already show signs of not liking how you've been regarded this. After all, it's not you. I'm just trying to point out and help by saying, just choose not to be that way. It's that simple. Difficult, especially when so raw and hurt, but it's that simple.

As for abuse, don't worry about it. I'm not sensitive to anything. That shit is part of my life, I accept and accept how it has affected me and how I've chosen to be in light of it all. That's why I can talk almost flippantly about it. My experience with it has helped mould me into who I am, and I try to share that experience with others in hopes it does something for them. Hell that's the only reason I post around here much anymore, people keep saying my posts are insightful and helpful. I usually do that by talking about myself and my approach to life, I actually dislike giving direct advice to people. But I'm typically over in Reconciliation talking about Flow and Contrition and shit.

And I really am glad you appreciated my response. No one should be enemies here.

Like I said, I wish you well in your personal journey. This shit is hard. Just bolster yourself and who you want to be, and realize you have choices.


Me: 28 ~ Her (FR2012): 27
Together: 9 years, 2 children
D-Day: April 19, 2012

Surrender to the truth of life.


Posts: 466 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Traversing Dark Places With The Light of Truth
Betrayed444
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Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, May 30th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't the army pukes whine enough as it is ?

That's Army with a capital A
And we bitch about everything

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 11:14 AM, May 30th (Thursday)]


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