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User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 10
VD2012
♂ Member
Member # 36317
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since it seems thematically relevant to the goings on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7yCLn-O-Y0

"Carry On" by Fun.

Well I woke up to the sound of silence
And cries were cutting like knives in a fist fight
And I found you with a bottle of wine
Your head in the curtains
And heart like the Fourth of July

You swore and said,
"We are not,
We are not shining stars"
This I know,
I never said we are

Though I've never been through hell like that
I've closed enough windows to know you can never look back

If you're lost and alone
Or you're sinking like a stone
Carry on
May your past be the sound
Of your feet upon the ground
Carry on

Carry on, carry on

So I met up with some friends at the edge of the night
At a bar off 75
And we talked and talked about how our parents will die,
All our neighbours and wives

But I like to think I can cheat it all
To make up for the times I've been cheated on
And it's nice to know when I was left for dead
I was found and now I don't roam these streets
I am not the ghost you are to me

If you're lost and alone
Or you're sinking like a stone
Carry on
May your past be the sound
Of your feet upon the ground
Carry on

Whoa
My head is on fire but my legs are fine
After all they are mine
Lay your clothes down on the floor
Close the door, hold the phone
Show me how no one’s ever gonna stop us tonight

'Cause here we are
We are shining stars
We are invincible
We are who we are
On our darkest day
When we’re miles away
Sun will come
We will find our way home

If you're lost and alone
Or you're sinking like a stone
Carry on
May your past be the sound
Of your feet upon the ground
Carry on

Oooh.
Oooh
Oooh
Oooh

(No one's ever gonna stop us tonight)
(No one's ever, no one's ever gonna stop, no one's ever gonna stop us tonight)
(No one's ever, no one's ever gonna stop, no one's ever gonna stop, no one's ever gonna stop us tonight)


Me: 28 ~ Her (FR2012): 27
Together: 9 years, 2 children
D-Day: April 19, 2012

Surrender to the truth of life.


Posts: 466 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Traversing Dark Places With The Light of Truth
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Should have stuck with cool the fuck off.

Was unaware that panties would get bunched in BM thread, thought men could have their own opinions.

This thread has rules simple as that just like any other thread on SI, I get venting but when its a daily thing shouldn't we who have been down this road before call a spade a spade or is that too PC as well? If we want to call it a vent thread fine, vile comments are a cancer and that old adage garbage in garbage out is appropriate as well. Keep saying vile shit and say your doing it here so you don't say it to your wife, riiiight. Keep saying something enough and you keep saying it. If people here aren't man enough to take my opinions I am cool with that, just don't cry about. I say what I feel because it is important to me, not because of someone else, don't like it don't fuckin take it. Oh that's right all opinions are welcome, unless of course they are in the minority. Good luck and may god/krishna/allah/Glock23 whoever you pray too smile upon you.

[This message edited by hardlessons at 7:49 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You've already said this thread should be strictly reconciliation and damned be those that need some companionship and guidance.

Ummm... no! It should cover all aspects of surviving infidelity. Some of us do not believe in R -- says the D'ed guy. But we should support one another regardless. I will back anyone 100% who gives it a go.

Chill, guys. Don't try and spoil the good thing we have going here.


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not man enough to take your opinions? HL you are throwing a fucking temper tantrum. I'm trying to avoid a pissing contest because I'd rather not get spanked by MH but you piss all over half the guys in this thread, wave your fucking Interweb White Knight flag around like you're some god damned special guy and then have the absolute fucking temerity to spew some self-absorbed bullshit about your minority view being ignored because not everyone fucking agrees with you 100% of the time.

You go right on home then Cartman. I'm sorry about whatever has you so pissed off you feel the need to take swings at people but I'm sure the fuck not sorry for swinging back.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe I should say "as you were" or even better
Cease fire
HL your definitely being confrontational. I don't know what is setting you off but I'm betting its not my comments about my WW.
Ill reiterate. I am pretty straightforward and this is where I'm coming from
WW on Nov 10 was on her period
Said she was going to get tampons at 1800. Got a text at 2100 " don't worry. With friends. Be home before you go to work in the morning"
Came home at 3:14. I remember the time.
Today was the remark that she will have sex on her period. Instead of triggering, raging, and acting like an asshole I commented here and let it be.
Also. Dirty towel remark
Many people here have justifiable hang ups toward sex and I do also. Mental movies, what they did, whatever. I'm a man. I can't jack off every day and I'm not running around looking for some strange. We do make emotional connections. I like what I hear but sometimes I just get off. Instead of telling her rude demeaning things I said that here. So what.
Parachute. A joke. It was the thrill of her life. As I said, I wanted her to feel the butterflies in her stomache and take a leap for me like she did years ago. Did I really want it to fail? No absutely not but karma has beaten her down since her indiscretions and I make comments. I'm a soldier, we make light of a lot of things to lighten up a situation. It's a coping mechanism. Now I know I don't need to explain the psychology of this bullshit. I don't cry or whine, I deal with it the best I can.
HL I know your a good guy doing the best You can but were all different and were all trying to make a decision and reach the best objective that we can live with. I don't know if I'm going to R or D but I'm marking time and seeing what happens. Right now my WW is trying. At least that's the perception but before DDay my perception was that we had a good marriage. I was blind. Ambushed. I have to be alert and be prepared for ulterior motives as many have fond out after they thought their d's were successful. My children depend on me to make the right decision. If I want to make remarks at her expense I will. As I said she hasn't proven herself to me. It takes a lot to get respect back after it was so wantonly tossed away in exchange for such a callous act of selfishness at the expense of others who love you.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 8:09 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

B444 - good post. Well played.

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sooo... how about them Pacers?

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
Stillkicking
♂ Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whoa, shits getting all puffy chested up in hizere....

Anyway, what are the thoughts on Detroit and chitown? Who wins???

[This message edited by Stillkicking at 8:13 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HL, I apologize. I got pissed and lost my shit. This isn't the place for it and whatever our differences I should have conducted myself better than that. I have no excuse and not gonna make one. So, sorry for being a dickhead.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HEY! GD'it everyone stop pissing with my juju.

First off ... SG ... had me rolling with that Pat Robertson - Voltron comparison. That's good stuff there!

I think everyone has their own way of dealing with this. Hell most comments are meant more for ourselves than anyone in particular on this thread. Me for example, I'll make it perfectly clear, I am 100% committed to a R. From the beginning I never really never considered anything else...shhh don't tell her that though. However I still posted something calling her Betty Blowjob. Why? Cuz that shit made me laugh. And I'll take any laugh I can get right now. Honestly didn't post it for anyone else, I posted it for me cuz I find it damn funny. If someone else finds it funny great, if it offends someone, don't care brought an unforced smile to my face, and that a rarity these days.
Anger is a natural way to grieve for us men. If railing here releases enough stream thus making it possible for you to go home and give to a go with your WS, rail away. Coping mechanisms have to run their course no matter how destructive they seem to be, its simply part of the process.
Anyway I thought taking off her pants and sitting on another dude WAS the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. At least that what she tells me it was like at the time.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ya know what hell with it, hope you don't mind SG but I'm quoting this over here. Just has to be shared. I'm still laughing. Voltron was my favorite growing up. Remember making my parents set an alarm so I could get up at 6:00 am for ABC Saturday Morning's just to watch it.


I heard Pat Robertson is secretly one of Voltron's feet. The one that always gets stuck up the giant monsters ass at the end of the show and comes out covered in shit.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 429 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
VD2012
♂ Member
Member # 36317
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Didn't want to really join a pissing contest but wanted to address something you said StillGoing. Gonna chop your run-on a bit if you don't mind...


to spew some self-absorbed bullshit about your minority view being ignored because not everyone fucking agrees with you 100% of the time.

Is it minority because you say so? Because I 100% agree with hardlessons. Is my opinion less valuable in that regard because my wife didn't suck as much cock as someone else's? Thought I'd ask in case that's a prerequisite. Seems around the BM parts it's typically a one-upsmanship circlejerk of who's wife is the bigger whore.

I'm sure plenty would agree with hardlessons. Just not in this thread at this moment. Why? Mob mentality from the looks of it, but also because some people don't want to sift through the daily name calling pejorative nanny nanny boo boo bullshit. So those who'd agree aren't here. As much as the current crop of fellows have this view of the Betrayed Men's thread there are a fair few who disagree and just don't come here because of it.

You may disagree with him, but honestly the depths your dropping to and ad-hominems you're tossing out are just ridiculous. We're all here for support, he's trying to give it and you're just having a go. And the funny thing is a bunch of you are going off on him for sharing his opinion and beliefs while claiming that's all you're doing. If it's fine for you, it's fine for everyone else. Even if you disagree.

There really is sage advice in realizing that feeding that rage and anger just further prolongs it, instead of the bullshit "letting it out and venting". I say this as someone with massive fucking past anger issues. And sometimes people need to be called on their shit instead of coddled and praised.

But hey, let the chortling at cum rags, WSluts, failing parachutes, extolling the virtues of being verbally abusive or whatever floats your boat continue.

Oh, and some of you guys should really venture outside the closed environment of this thread. Would do ya a world of good.

ETA: Saw you posted an apology while I was writing... Good on ya. My points still stand though.

Stillkicking, if it honestly comes down to Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA and Boston as the final four... I officially consider that a sign of the apocalypse.

[This message edited by VD2012 at 8:59 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Me: 28 ~ Her (FR2012): 27
Together: 9 years, 2 children
D-Day: April 19, 2012

Surrender to the truth of life.


Posts: 466 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Traversing Dark Places With The Light of Truth
Betrayed444
♂ Member
Member # 38389
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't make it a habit of being betrayed. It is a strange and alien landscape to be in. It's like being dropped in behind enemy lines and trying to figure out how to get out of the area safely. I try to learn the terrain. Read a shit ton of books. Try to figure out the motive. Hope whatever happened before is repaired. Rescue her or myself and family.
First instinct is to pop smoke and leave but something about us at first wants her back. Win her back. Pride, ego, whatever. It's a terrible blow. Heart and mind combating with each other. Our moves are second guessed. We fuck up. Make it worse. We do the opposite of a 180.
Who the hell is she? What has she done? To what extent? Why was she so willing to screw everything away?
Who the hell knows. All the psychology, SAB's, etc.
just leave
But wait, let's work it out. WTF?!
The children? What's the best move?
Look I'm all for R but I'm in some strange quasi R. I don't want it to be rug swept but if I'm doing the R thing how can I when I don't know the extent of her exploits. How many? Is it going to bite me in the ass. Was it with anyone I know? Close friends?
It's frustrating and hard to commit myself if all the fires haven't been extinguished. Was she so comfortable that she got sloppy those 2 times. I don't know.
She says the right things now then goes off and says the guy "fit"
Really now, she's made some comments of her own.
I remember when I first asked her how many times and she said not enough. Then corrected it by saying he couldn't keep it up or go for round 2. She nudged him and he told her to go to sleep. She couldn't arouse him.
How could that not make someone angry?
I've maintained self discipline to an extraordinary degree. I could've snapped the OM in half. I didn't. I had a firearm in my vehicle and it never crossed my mind. I've NEVER been physical nor thought about it. But I turn to the only people that understand. We all deal differently but were In The same boat. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and we all know our spouses, or thought we did. Many opinions here have helped me immensely. I'm not an expert. I tell my story and share my thoughts and what works for me and along the way I pick up tools here and there that are offered on this site. I'm not upset at hard or anyone. I sometimes say some things that have an edge. I joke around and I don't wear kid gloves. We can't sugar coat this. It's a serious situation. A life altering time where decisions affect the lives of many and that ball ends up in our court. I don't take it lightly and I am pissed that she put this responsibility on my shoulders. I chose at this time to not D. I've Camo'd up. I'm playing nice and watching and listening to her. I don't mean to offend anyone.
Sal thanks for contributing.

[This message edited by Betrayed444 at 9:16 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 494 | Registered: Feb 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

444, you will, as will we all proceed through this at your own pace. There are gonna be times she's a cum swilling pig and there's gonna be times where she's the mother of your kids. Use the 180 to heal you and decide which category she falls into and respond appropriately. You will find support in whichever direction you decide to go. I supported you with TOT and will support you if your decision is to call for smoke. BTW, with kids involved, I firmly believe in R.

One of the first things I learned on this site is to take what you need and leave the rest. I found value in both hl and sg's positions. Sounds like you did too.

Strength brothers


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2086 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it minority because you say so?

No. He called it a minority. I was calling that bullshit.

You may disagree with him, but honestly the depths your dropping to and ad-hominems you're tossing out are just ridiculous. We're all here for support, he's trying to give it and you're just having a go. And the funny thing is a bunch of you are going off on him for sharing his opinion and beliefs while claiming that's all you're doing. If it's fine for you, it's fine for everyone else. Even if you disagree.

I did nothing of the sort until after three or four posts of being told I was crude, PC, panties in a bunch, lying about my motives and all sorts of other shit that hasn't been edited out for you to read. I lost my cool in one post, and I shouldn't have, but I'm not going to sit there and be called out repeatedly and not respond to it.

There really is sage advice in realizing that feeding that rage and anger just further prolongs it, instead of the bullshit "letting it out and venting". I say this as someone with massive fucking past anger issues. And sometimes people need to be called on their shit instead of coddled and praised.

Yes. There is also sage advice that everybody's different and what works for you doesn't necessarily work for someone else.


But hey, let the chortling at cum rags, WSluts, failing parachutes, extolling the virtues of being verbally abusive or whatever floats your boat continue.

There is no "extolling the virtues of being verbally abusive" and that's what I fucking take exception to. You talk in the next breath about looking beyond narrow horizons but how about taking a deep breath and actually reading the shit people are saying without immediately dismissing it as bullshit because you don't personally work that way?

Someone telling me I'm not man enough, that I'm vile, cancerous, bunched panties and all sorts of other fun stuff is pretty fucking provocative. If you want to talk about ad-homs lets take down that strawman of yours first.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

VD2012:

Is it minority because you say so?

No, because HL said so:

Oh that's right all opinions are welcome, unless of course they are in the minority.

HL and SG may or may not be wrong about HL's views being in the minority, but it does seem to be the one thing they've agreed on lately.

ETA:

SG: "I was calling that bullshit."

I stand corrected. That's what I get for not refreshing the page before commenting.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 10:21 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Metacommentary:

You do what works for you, whatever that happens to be. When that stops working, you do something else.

That's it.

There aren't any silver bullets. There aren't any manuals or ProTip tutorials. What we have here are collections of experiences that work for some guys, work for awhile, work in some phases but fail in others, etc., etc.

What works looks much more like a coherent plan in hindsight than it does in the middle. When you get to be a vet, you're more like the War College dissecting past battles and seeing what lessons can be learned for the next conflict (and if you're smart, learning that all of those lessons are likely going to be wrong).

I'm going to say this again, because I think it needs t be said: I don't regret a single step on my path to healing. There's not a single thing I look back at and think, "Man, I wish I'd handled that differently." Each step along the way was necessary.

Not a word spoken in anger, a weakness ruthlessly exploited, an unwarranted act of kindness, or a time that I let a ground ball go by. None of it.

Doesn't mean there weren't times I felt lost, lonely, directionless, abandoned, pissed off, impotent, alone against the world, biding my time, acting like a doormat, scared of change, fearful about the future, gut full of bile and lead. Whatever.

Standing on my own two feet through that shit helped me remember that I was going to be okay.

Somebody is going to ask the question (because someone always does): where are the lines? Where are the boundaries? That is, it's all well and good to talk about doing whatever it takes to heal and wandering from one method to another, but aren't there rules?

Rules like: no physical violence, no verbal abuse, no fucking other people, no going out for ice cream by yourself, no mixed gender softball leagues, no hording what you really think to share only with your lawyer.

Pick your list. I don't believe in lists. You do whatever you can within the bounds of being able to look at yourself in the mirror. Sure, entitlement is always going to be a risk. If you're not mindful, it might ruin your marriage. It might lead you down paths you wouldn't have gone down otherwise.

By all means, be mindful. But legalism is just as dangerous a route to travel. So, be mindful of that, too.

Above all, be good to yourself. Be gentle. Be forgiving. Extend grace to yourself, because that's a habit, too.

One of the things I admire about VD2012 is that he knows he's a guy who had anger issues in the past. He worked hard to overcome it, and chose (mindfully) not to include the old coping mechanisms in his healing path. That had nothing to do with his wife, you understand, but with protecting that guy in the mirror. He did not want to be "that guy".

We've all got an image of "that guy" that we don't want to be. For some of us, "that guy" is a pussy who lets his wife run all over him and keeps taking her back because he doesn't want to be alone. For some, "that guy" is the guy who forgives everything and never gets back his pound of flesh. For others, it's "that guy" who acts like a dick, holds on to his hurts, and makes everyone around him uncomfortable.

I know who my "that guy" is. VD and HL know who theirs is. I can say pretty categorically that they're not the same guys, and the paths we've travelled to get where we're at reflect that.

Reminds me of Bigger in JFO. Bigger used to give incredibly useful advice to n00bs back in the day (maybe still does -- I don't get down to JFO very often). It was all about figuring out what you wanted, devising a plan, then executing it. If you wanted R, that meant like acting you wanted R, regardless of the boiling cauldron of feelings inside you.

Great advice. Helped lots of people.

Not my cup of tea.

See, Bigger is a plan guy. Plans and goal-oriented thinking. Bigger is a great resource for developing a business plan or a devising a night raid on an entrenched enemy position. I have immense respect for Bigger. he's hepled hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of guys over the years...but his approach was and is completely lost on me.

I am not a plan guy. I'm a figure-it-out guy. I'm a shoot from the hip guy. I didn't mind sitting in limbo for a couple of years while I was deciding what I was going to do...because, unlike Bigger, I hold it as a personal conviction that outcomes are incidental. I never had in mind some iron clad goal of saving my marriage.

My goal was to heal and to like myself in the process. See, because even though I love my wife, I don't believe in star-crossed love or soulmate schmoopies or whatever we're calling it this week. I don't believe that marriage is the most important or defining experience of my life.

I don't believe -- even in the absence of infidelity -- that I'm the sort of guy who would have looked back on my life at 85 and thought about all the hard times my wife and I made it through together, and consider the fact that we made it through leaning on each other as the capstone of my existence. I'm not dissing that idea, just saying that for me personally, it would rank right up there with the perfect attendance trophy I got in 4th grade.

Just not the way I'm built. Marriage is a circumstance in life, not a reason for being. I realize that people have different feelings on that, weigh it on a different scale than I do. I'm not advising you to adopt my stance here. What I do know is that the time period I spent thinking daily about the quality and direction of my marriage were the most miserable three years of my entire human existence. I didn't start to feel free until I stopped giving as much of a shit and stopped doing the things all the relationship books and infidelity boards told me I "should" be doing to have a happy and fulfilled marital life -- because all of those programs are about somebody making money trying to sell you an idea of what will make you happy.

Thinking about all the things I can do to improve my marriage does not make me happy. So it's a non-starter. Like I've said in the past, I don't believe all of this shit about marriage is hard work. I've already got a full-time job. If marriage is going to be another fucking job, then somebody had better be cutting me a check, because I don't need marriage to "complete me" or keep me from feeling alone, lonely, and desolate.

(This is not a license to be a selfish dick. Most people are not, I believe, selfish dicks as a rule, so this "work" peple refer to in the context of marriage looks a whole lot more to me like finding ways to manipulate your spouse into being a mirror image of yourself rather than their own human being...and then just, you know, getting the fuck along with them. Srsly. This whole marriage help cottage industry of therapy, books, guidelines, articles, blah, blah, blah is the very definition of a First World Problem. If you spent more money on MC and marriage materials and aids in the last year than you did on healthcare or food to feed your family -- you, my friend, are the fucking 1%.)

Know who you are. You want to throw your disposable income at something worthwhile? Throw it at that. Throw it at figuring out who you are outside of the context, detritus, and driftwood of being a husband. Be the guy you want to be; be the guy you aspired to be when you were 14 and imagining what your life was going to be like.

Everything else falls into place once you've got a handle on your core identity. Whatever hijinks your wife gets up to are less immediate -- less personal -- when you start to know your own core self, and know that no matter what happens, you've got your back.

We forget that. So many of us transition from the hormonal uncertainty of our young adulthood to thinking of ourselves as an inseparable unit with this person who has come along to complete us. We get so used to having a crutch that we forget we're not lame.

We forget that we can plan our own hair cuts, our own doctor visits. We forget that we can buy our own underwear. We come to expect that nagging that we don't take care of ourselves, don't eat right, don't do x, y, or z like we should. We let our self-care erode, abdicate that responsibility to our "better half".

It's bullshit. We all do it. And then we say things like, "I don't know where I'd be without my wife to take care of me."

Why? I have no fucking clue, but I suspect it has more than a little to do with expending all of our time and energy making someone else happy because it's less invested work and uncertainty than embracing ourselves, who we want to be, and the risk of failing to attain what we really desire.

"I had a great marriage" is the consolation prize for those who can't say "I lived an awesome life". Maybe you score it differently. That's okay if you do.

Do whatever it takes to heal, then have the courage to take the next step and get the life you want. That last part is still, and hopefully will always be, a work in progress.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:40 PM, May 29th (Wednesday)]


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn Wal, that's good stuff. This was my favorite:

We get so used to having a crutch that we forget we're not lame.

That's Mark Twain-ish in its simplicity and profundity.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks WAL.

Got some more personal dissection to do now.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2086 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
VD2012
♂ Member
Member # 36317
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, May 29th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No. He called it a minority. I was calling that bullshit.

Yes, I saw but you used what he called it and reinforced your beliefs in agreement while tossing out a bunch of vulgarities. So my question still stands, regardless of what hardlessons said.


I did nothing of the sort until after[...]


I don't really care. I've heard that excuse from my daughter way too often lately. "No, but he did". Hell, that excuse doesn't fly over in the wayward forum, or anywhere else actually. You're a grown man, you can act like it. Don't mean that to sound harsh, but really look at how you're coming off.


I'm not going to sit there and be called out repeatedly and not respond to it.

Why? Has your name been disparaged? Your honour wounded? Your ego smushed? Pride torn asunder? No, some guy on the Internet said shit you didn't like. You chose to respond the way you did. I even said good on ya for apologizing. Though the initial rant didn't need to happen.

And the thing is hardlessons wasn't initially saying a thing to you, he was addressing someone else. You chimed in. You'd have nothing to respond to had you left it be.

I just found it odd to see someone like you, a veteran of this site with quite a bit of insight and knowledge behind you, and a hefty vocabulary to boot, resorting to such vitriol. I also can't stand the mob gang up mentality.

Yes. There is also sage advice that everybody's different and what works for you doesn't necessarily work for someone else.

Fine and dandy. But there's incredible merit in what hardlessons is saying and those his message is being drowned out by are doing a disservice to those who may need to hear it. Everyone needs to be challenged on their beliefs once in awhile, it's where growth and long term healing come from.


There is no "extolling the virtues of being verbally abusive" and that's what I fucking take exception to.

Really, because this was said a couple pages back by someone I won't name...


I won't beat her physically because it's illegal and I don't hit woman, so I beat her verbally when I get like this. And then I resent her for making me like this.

What's that sound like to you?

I've never dismissed what anyone has said as bullshit. Please point out where I did. Addressing your post isn't dismissing anything.

You also don't know the way I work StillGoing, so don't presume please. I get anger, I get rage. The way I used to be wasn't pretty. Closest I came to being the old me was looking my wife dead in the eye last June and in the most callous, venomous, hate filled way I could I asked "Did you like the taste of his cock in your mouth?"

If my wife fucked up before I started fixing my own shit years ago I'd make the lot of what is being said in here look like a boyscout meeting. I speak from experience as a person who used to make excuses for "venting" and "releasing it safely". It doesn't leave you, it stays and simply becomes easier and easier to do. Especially if you can hold onto the ideals of justice and have righteousness on your side long enough for it to corrupt before you without noticing. hardlessons gets that and was simply trying to point it out. Yeah he certainly could have taken the "gently here fellow brother, you're feeding into your anger and should focus on your own healing dude" approach but he didn't. Doesn't negate the message.

As someone who's been here so long and helped so many you should know the price and consequences of enabling and allowing poor coping mechanisms. And giving into anger in any way that isn't productive to self healing is just that.

Anyways my bladder just ran dry, so if you'd like to carry on be my guest. Just some honestly friendly advice, if you get this heated at words said to you via a message board just step away. Go cool off and come back with a clear head. Works for loads of situations in life, especially when it comes to the nature of a message board. We choose how to react and respond to things and no one has to click the submit button if they don't want to. There really is no need to blow up here.

Remember why we're all here.


Me: 28 ~ Her (FR2012): 27
Together: 9 years, 2 children
D-Day: April 19, 2012

Surrender to the truth of life.


Posts: 466 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Traversing Dark Places With The Light of Truth
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