Can you have a one day EA? a one week EA? How does that compare to a ONS?
Every type of A is wrong. Some BSs can "handle" an EA more than a PA. But the next BS would feel quite differently. I've seen BSs here completely devastated from coffee and a handful of texts. And I've seen BSs take an LT-PA in relatively decent stride.
To discount blackkat's feelings because we might not feel her betrayal is "as bad" is wrong. It's not up to us to tell her how she should feel. That's up to her.
he did vent at one point that "I've no fucking right to question him, after what I've done."
I think it's important to keep things in perspective. Otherwise I can't imagine there would be hope for reconciliation. There has to be a meeting of the minds. Please don't read too much into that. I'm trying to help. Not trying to minimize her H's actions.
I wish you luck BK
She just got over giving the agonizing bloody, gory, details and *then* he says, oh yeah by the way.... That is all kinds of wrong. I think it was a way for him to ensure that his wasn't 'as bad' as hers. And maybe to him it isn't. And maybe with time she'll decide it isn't to her either. They can both deal with their betrayals separately.
I can't imagine how complicated being a MH is. All the "Am I allowed to be hurt or question." stuff. And will he be open to her processing her betrayal. It couple take more than a couple days for her to find perspective on this.
How's it going today blackkat?
Its obviously a comfort to me that my BS has not had sex with these individuals; however its the fact that this has happened off and on for a period of years (there were previous dalliances that I knew about earlier on in our relationship). So, putting the more recent discoveries together - I wonder how long a period of our relationship has been affected by this.
For the sake of our R - I have to ask questions and express my feelings - if he thinks thats unacceptable - then what does that say about our chances for R. What hurts is that I've quite rightly had months of shit for being a liar - but all along he knew he has been less than honest himself.
Thank you for your ongoing support ... Helps a lot
there are smarter people here than me. I think it's best if you listen to them.
there are smarter people here than me. I think it's best if you listen to them.
Can you have a one-day EA?
D-day #1 in my case was in 2007, less than 2 weeks before XH and I married. He found a string of texts between me and the OM (yep, same OM from the affair that caused our divorce) reminiscing about our past dating relationship, how great it was, etc.
XH and I got into a raging fight over that. I had never heard of an "EA" and acknowledged that it may have been somewhat inappropriate, but to make that big a deal over it???
Obviously I didn't have a clue. I know better now. It was about 10 messages back and forth over the span of 2 hours. Yet I consider it an EA, and it damaged our relationship.
Married 2.5 years
Reconciling after divorce
I totally, 100% understand how you feel. I caught my H's EA, though it was over when I caught him, and catching him prompted me to tell him about what I like to pretty up as an EA, even though I think most would consider it a PA since we did kiss.
As the second confessor, I absolutely felt H had the right to ask any question he wants, so I totally disagree with your H there. Then again, in his eyes I'd be the "worse" one since I kissed my AP and H didn't.
As far as what's worse, I agree with those who say that's all in the eye of the beholder. I waffle every day between thinking what I did was worse and what he did was worse. But in the end, as we talked about in MC, it really doesn't matter. We're both broken people who need to work on ourselves so that we can fix our marriage. It's as simple as that.
Do I have the right to ask him questions or express my hurt? It feels like what I did was so much worse ... But, surely if we stand any chance of going forward - its all got to come out now?
IMO - you have a right to ask him questions and express your hurt. what you did is worse. it's all got to come out if you can move forward.
and..... you need to decide if you want to stay married. maybe you don't. this argument about what is worse doesn't really help anything.
this argument about what is worse doesn't really help anything
I am going to tell you right now that in a madhatter situation, if you want to have any hope of making it work, this is the argument that you stay away from. It will never get resolved. Never.
What is a deep hurt to one person can be not so much to another. You have to acknowledge each other's hurt period. And if each partner cannot get to that place, there is going to be real difficulty in going forward. Each partner has equal rights, to ask questions, to be comforted, to trigger, to have to fix themselves, to be held accountable. Hlessons and I have found that this has been the only way it has worked for us. I don't know how other madhatters have done it, maybe they will weigh in.
I find that as the WS who had a PA, I'm more forgiving of the physical part than the emotional part. I feel more betrayed over the roses, the concert and the love than I do over the sex. It might also be that I'm a woman. We think differently than men do. I also have a major problem that all this occurred while I thought we were working to reconcile our marriage, AND I thought we had accomplished that as we "graduated" from MC before I discovered his A.
So, to summarize, I think the BS is always going to think they got the worse end of the deal because of the pain you are feeling. However, each person in the marriage has to take responsibility for the state the marriage was in and their weakness in allowing any kind of affair to happen, and has to be 100% committed to reconciliation. Beyond that, what else really matters? When the blaming stops, then the forgiveness can begin.
I recommend that if you haven't already gotten into MC, that you start now. A big part of that process is forgiveness of yourself and our spouse.
My husband and I are beginning that process once again.
Mine DD - 6/2012
His DD - 5/2013
The posts that speak about not comparing the details of As are thoughts that I agree with. I wouldn't call it useless, but would rather spend the energy and feelings on sorting out how to put the different pieces of hurt away in order to move on. I worry that comparing them could lead to bitterness and not letting go.
Things have been done by each person in the couple that Blackat is in. They were living as a couple but not doing the things as a couple does, for and with each other, married or otherwise...I didn't read the profile.
I am sorry for your hurt, Blackkat, because it seems like one of the most painful feelings in the world, to learn a spouse or partner has been out living their own life and hidden and deceived. But you have the added burden of things you've done as well and that I cannot imagine...and am sorry for it.
I don't know if this will help any, but it finally helped me to realize that I do actually have a threshold of both pain and tolerance-and STBXH violated both of those to extremes. I suspect that we all have that threshold?
And I think that you have a whole lot of sorting to do, if you don't mind my suggesting it...here are some questions that I ask of myself...first with yourself, how are you going to come to terms with your life and its actions? And then how to to turn to your spouse/partner and see where everything is going to stand there...what is left to go forward with? Do you want to?
What can you tolerate? What do you want for the rest of your life? How can you alter your thinking, so that the actions of both of you won't haunt you for the rest of your life? Would you be like I would and always wonder about the other person and what they're doing? Wonder if something they said is honest?
Yes, the post that speaks about forgiveness seems like a really important early step.
The only thing that stays the same, is change. -M. Etheridge