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User Topic: Im a WS - turns out my BS has been no angel!!
blackkat
♀ New Member
Member # 39101
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unfortunately, I am back again asking for insight and information from others who have walked path before me.

If any of you read my thread - he wants details will have seen the angst of me writing ALL the details of my A to my BH at his request. This must have been pricking at him as I got a reply from him today ...

Basically, confessing that over the last 3/4 years or so (the period we started drifting apart) he has met, had coffee, drinks, emails, texts etc with about 3 - 4 different women. He says only kissed one of them passionately and has admitted he was actively planning on taking it further physically and thought better of it.

This has not come as a surprise to me on many levels - I've always sensed a 'secret' life but didn't want to deal with it. But, I've got really mixed reactions - part of me feels - you bastard - for months I've borne the guilt for lying etc and you know you've also lied, but haven't admitted it until now; the other part feels - Ive no right to be angry or upset - what I did was so much worse as I had a physical affair.

Its like we are on opposite ends of the spectrum - for 17 years Ive never even given my phone number out to another man - but had a very intense affair for a period of a few weeks; and he has 'dabbled' for years.

Do I have the right to ask him questions or express my hurt? It feels like what I did was so much worse ... But, surely if we stand any chance of going forward - its all got to come out now?

Help?


Posts: 23 | Registered: Apr 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you checked out the Madhatter thread in the I Can Relate forum?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
roughroadahead
♀ Member
Member # 36060
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't see a stop sign. I just saw this on the main forum page and wanted to let you know that there is a thread in the I Can Relate forum called "mad hatters only". That is for people in your situation, where they are both wayward and betrayed.


BS-Me 30s
WS-Him 30s
D-Day 4/2012 (Insisted EA only)
D-Day 5/2012 (Did I say EA? Ummm..)
Numerous other TT/broken NC d-days until S 1/2013. D settled 11/2013
MOW-coworker, 40s.
2 DS and DD all w/autism

Posts: 738 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: USA
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PM for you blackkat


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37253 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
blackkat
♀ New Member
Member # 39101
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just when I thought I had the lingo figured out here - I've learned a new term 'madhatter'.

Thank you for those who've pointed me towards that madhatter thread - there is a lot of info to go through there so will make a start.


Posts: 23 | Registered: Apr 2013
Theradin
♂ Member
Member # 38518
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here -
Although there is no justification for having an A or engaging in A-like behavior, even a revenge A, which is what your WS/BS may have engaged in, something else may be at play here.

There are several folks i've read about that have been cheated on, and subsequently 'disconnected' their hearts from their WS such that they were really a "ghost" in the relationship, but simple remained in it because, well, why not? However, for these BSs, there is no way they will ever truly return to the relationship. Therefore, they simply allow themselves to drift into somethinf much healthier, normal, and which doesn't present an perceived safety risk. They truly are allowing their broken hearts to move on.

Usually, i've seen that their new AP is someone with strong moral values, self-esteem, and very grounded in reality. Often, they don't even reveal to their AP that they are even in a relationship. It is rare that they would have gone "slumming", and ended up banging the waiter at Denny's.

If these characteristics are similar in your MH spouse, then you might want to consider this possibility. If so, chances are that he simply cannot get himself to truly feel safe with you ever again, and is seeking companionship with someone who doesn't exhibit the "typical" A-like attributes (e.g., low self-esteem, secrecy, codependency, promiscuity prior to M, etc.)

Just wanted to throw that out there to contemplate.


ME: 33 BH
HER: 32 WW
Married: 8 years
Children: Yes
DDay #1: 02/22/2006 (ONS)
DDay #2: 09/23/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #3: 12/07/2012 (EA/PA)
DDay #4: 01/03/2013 (EA/PA)
DDay #5: 01/24/2013 (EA/PA)
TT until 04/07/2013
100% NC: 04/18/2013

Posts: 190 | Registered: Feb 2013
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slight t/j:
Theradin, unless I missed something in Cat's post, it looks as if her BH has been unfiathful prior to / during her A and is now telling her only because she confessed to him. End t/j

Makes me wonder now if the reason behind him wanting to know every explicit detail was to "compare" his A's to yours so that he could come back with tit for tat. And btw, one betrail does not make another "not as bad". They're both horrible and it's a load of shit if he's making you believe otherwise.

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 6:14 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1942 | Registered: Oct 2010
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

****Posting as a member who is hopefully misinterpreting something here****

additional t/j -

There are several folks i've read about that have been cheated on, and subsequently 'disconnected' their hearts from their WS such that they were really a "ghost" in the relationship, but simple remained in it because, well, why not? However, for these BSs, there is no way they will ever truly return to the relationship. Therefore, they simply allow themselves to drift into somethinf much healthier, normal, and which doesn't present an perceived safety risk. They truly are allowing their broken hearts to move on.



Drifting into another relationship while married isn't healthy OR normal. It's cheating.

You just described textbook WS permissions and behaviors, and are saying it's ok because it's a BS who is doing it this time? Like two wrongs and whatnot?

My brain is literally sputtering over this... they were wronged and unhappy and a ghost in their relationship, but stayed because "why not" and then started another relationship instead of ending the one they were in?!?! Really?!?!?!

[This message edited by Jrazz at 6:33 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17552 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry for the t/j, blackkat.

You have every right to be hurt and ask questions.

It's just so much harder once the MH'er effect is in place.

It's not about what's worse now. It's about how to heal as a team.


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17552 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are several folks i've read about that have been cheated on, and subsequently 'disconnected' their hearts from their WS such that they were really a "ghost" in the relationship, but simple remained in it because, well, why not? However, for these BSs, there is no way they will ever truly return to the relationship. Therefore, they simply allow themselves to drift into somethinf much healthier, normal, and which doesn't present an perceived safety risk. They truly are allowing their broken hearts to move on.
Then get a dang divorce.

Justifying their own A because they were "cheated on first" doesn't make it any less hurtful or acceptable.

As it seems, that's totally not the case. He was cheating on her at the same time or before her infidelities. So I wonder how he can spin and justify that to his advantage?

blackkat, I've been keeping up with your posts. I'm sorry you're in this position.

(((bk)))

[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 6:57 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6257 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j:

Usually, i've seen that their new AP is someone with strong moral values, self-esteem, and very grounded in reality.

Seems like there's a contradiction in that paragraph...


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Remarried. Reconciliation is a process and I still struggle.


Posts: 2204 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying not to T/J -
Then get a dang divorce.

Always. Then none of us would be here. Aubrie - you are so right. Divorce isn't forever - the other option unfortunately is.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3962 | Registered: Dec 2011
Vulcanized
♀ Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This has not come as a surprise to me on many levels - I've always sensed a 'secret' life but didn't want to deal with it. But, I've got really mixed reactions - part of me feels - you bastard - for months I've borne the guilt for lying etc and you know you've also lied, but haven't admitted it until now; the other part feels - Ive no right to be angry or upset - what I did was so much worse as I had a physical affair.

Hi Blackkat,

I had a revenge A after discovering H's A. (None of this is in my profile. It is on the DB site). My XH has absolutely no idea. I'm not sure if I am technically a MH, (see myself as BS) but this is my perspective. You have absolutely every right to feel angry at your H dropping this on you. I don't know how believable it is that your H only kissed one; I'd just assume the worst. Regardless, he is just as wrong as you are. Doesn't matter if his only went x far. The fact is what he did was also cheating. It seems rather cruel to me that he watched you going through pain for months, while covering his own ass. Do you think he came clean b/c he wants to truly R or do you think it was meant to hurt you?

Do I have the right to ask him questions or express my hurt? It feels like what I did was so much worse ... But, surely if we stand any chance of going forward - its all got to come out now?

You have the same rights as BH. It doesn't matter who did it first or to what degree it progressed. The damage has been inflicted by both. If you both want to R, then you both have to express you hurt, anger, whatever. The focus needs to be on repairing the damage that you both inflicted.

I have no advice as to how to R, as my XH opted to not try. I don't believe what you did is any worse than what he did. I can't imagine that focusing on who was badder can help in any way.


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 756 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

blackkat,

I'm sorry to hear this.

This:

Basically, confessing that over the last 3/4 years or so (the period we started drifting apart) he has met, had coffee, drinks, emails, texts etc with about 3 - 4 different women. He says only kissed one of them passionately and has admitted he was actively planning on taking it further physically and thought better of it.

I don't believe. I believe he told you that, but I do not believe the contents of his "confession". If he met 3-4 women for drinks, conversation, etc., I just don't think he stopped at a kiss.

Posts: 11688 | Registered: Mar 2008
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, May 14th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry you are here, MH status is a horrible place to be, its all horrible really. I just want to offer you support, there are many of us MH's here and it takes a lot of hard work to get through. Work that cannot be done by comparing or belittling. Work that can only be done if you both own your actions. If your not both in it with hard work and dedication it'll be like spitting on a fire that's slowly raging into an inferno. You both must do the work to heal from this, individually and as a couple. Hugs and support.

Slight t/j:

Theradin I was apalled reading your take on this. Nothing justifies an affair and an AP cannot be of strong moral character just by the very title of AP. Whether or not they are a waiter from Denny's is inconsequential, not even sure why someone is slumming material because they are a waiter. Also if he is having an A all those things you listed he is not looking for he is involved in. Last point, he seems to have done all this before she engaged in her A and now that she's done her dirt he figures its okay to unload his baggage because in his opinion she did worse. Give me a break here.

End T/J.

Sorry blackkat. We are here to support you, please post when you need to.

[This message edited by Unagie at 9:43 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)]


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2755 | Registered: Oct 2012
blackkat
♀ New Member
Member # 39101
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, May 15th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for the support and confirmation that it is OK for me to be hurt, upset and ask questions of him.

His dalliances did start a couple of years ago from what I know up til now - so well before I went off the path. My A was a matter of several intense weeks that started just before Christmas.

He is definitely of the opinion that as I had sex - I am the one 'more' at fault here. - he did vent at one point that "I've no fucking right to question him, after what I've done." I think thats a lot to do with how I was caught - which was red-handed with lots of very incriminating emails - I did nothing as noble as confessing and am in awe of the SIers who have done this.

Have to say that I bought into his view that what I did was worse and in comparison his seems fairly innocent ... until read your threads.

I also agree with what some of you have said that its unlikely that it stopped at kissing. Oh deep joy!!!!


Posts: 23 | Registered: Apr 2013
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, May 16th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm afraid I have to disagree to some extent than most people here. I do believe that what you did was worse.

Tell me, would you have felt better if you had coffee with your OM for 3 weeks and then when you saw it getting too serious you broke it off? I think you know the answer to that.

Other's here who only had an EA are appropriately considering themselves as waywards, but yet I think they might be thankful that they didn't let it progress to a PA. Notice the word "progress?" That word alone indicates a difference.

I do agree that what he did was wrong. And I think you have every right to ask all the details of what he did. He definitely needs to figure out why he let himself do those things. But, honestly, aren't you relieved he didn't have a PA? That he didn't get someone pregnant? That alone should answer your question.

I think what people are getting at, I hope, is that an EA and a PA both come from the same place of fucked up. They come from the same problems. I certainly agree with that.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
KeepCalm_CarryOn
♀ Member
Member # 33374
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, May 16th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mike7- respectfully, and I don't know your story, I think it's very hard to qualify one type of A as "worse". I think that's a very individual assessment. Some may feel an EA is "worse", the emotional time, energy, effort all put into someone else? Whereas some may feel the physical act of a PA is "worse". The reality is you're splitting hairs.

All A's a jacked. All A's are wrong. There is no better A. All A's come from a broken, messed up place. Healing from all A's requires work.

BlackKat- you have every right to be hurt, upset, sad, and question things. You are now in the realm of madhatters. I'm very sorry.


You are not dealing with rational people or situations. Normal thought processes won't work...story of my life.

Me- BW, 28
Him- fWh, 34
Mostly R'd, minus a few scars...bought a house and got a puppy...And baby makes 3! She arrived August


Posts: 2024 | Registered: Sep 2011
badchoice
♂ Member
Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, May 16th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

blackkat - yes, you have every right to get all of your questions answered. Do not get caught in the trap of feeling like one is worse than the other, it will not help you process anything.

You have to deal with each one in as big of a vacuum as possible. It is very hard to do that, I had a lot of trouble with it. Take time to ask your questions, express you feelings, get the answers you need to heal and process, and let your BS do the same.

Good luck - sorry you find yourself in this boat.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 725 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, May 16th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree that it doesn't help anything to try to determine what is worse. What matters is what the couple thinks and how they feel. That doesn't change the fact that there are degrees. To ignore that is to be willfully ignorant. Like saying slapping someone is the same thing as killing someone or hitting them over the head with a bat. It's just not true. Even though they may all come from the frame of mind of anger.

Can you have a one day EA? a one week EA? How does that compare to a ONS?

Personnaly, I would have loved it if my wife had had coffee for three weeks, even kissed a guy, and then realized she was making a mistake and stopped of her own accord. Instead, I caught her having unprotected sex. To my mind, that is much, much worse. But that's just me. You may feel differently.

But none of that matters. If someone is unhappy, that unhappiness must be addressed.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
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