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User Topic: Counsellor's route
thisissogross
♀ Member
Member # 30294
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well you're ahead of me on kite flying then I only embraced it after 12 or 13 sessions (my silly was very broken then). I know I made the quest for mental health sound pretty bleak before. It's so much like exercising the body though! Just like that-if you've gotten out of shape and jog for an hour? You feel awful! Like crap-you totally think you're falling apart and start measuring your pulse and gulping like a fish on land and going 'ugh. Agh. I can't. Just can't!' But, if you stick with it it NEVER sucks as bad as that 1st time. Even has parallels in the phases of still suffering a fair bit-but you know it means something is being accomplished so its satisfying at the same time. And then, seriously, you'll have moments of glory and epiphany that almost seem like they're coming for free, except you know they're not. Its weird and awesome if you can hang with it.

[This message edited by thisissogross at 9:30 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday)]


"A pair of powerful spectacles has sometimes sufficed to cure a person in love." -Friedrich Nietzsche

i edit frequently because i have to


Posts: 234 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: southern us
Uneek
♀ Member
Member # 38416
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Madhatter here. Our MC is looking at a PTSD diagnosis for H and the more I read about it, the more I see it fits.

The thing is, WS's are broken. There is a reason that a wayward becomes a wayward. Much like a medical infection, if you treat the symptoms (the betrayal), it will get better...for a while. But until you get at the root of the problem, it's not gone and it will end up cropping up again.

I know what my brokenness is. I am dealing with it. It took us a couple months to figure out where H's came from, but it makes SO much sense now that MC brought it up. Please, please be open to what the IC has to say. It may hurt now, but it will be the best thing for *all* of you in the long run if you deal with the root of the problem instead of just the symptoms.


Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2013
Sienna500
♀ Member
Member # 38832
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Uneek, I'm open to it but I don't think I have PTSD, I honestly don't.

I'll explore lots of things and I can even take my past as the start point but I'm not going to delve deeply into it. I really do have too many responsibilities just in case.


Me: WW 27
Him: BH 28
M: 5 years, together 8
3 kids (aged 3, 4 & a baby born 5 Sept 2013)
3 ONSs in 2 weeks
DDay: 20 Jan 2013 (a week after)

Posts: 200 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: UK
Uneek
♀ Member
Member # 38416
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Funny, my H and I were talking last night and it's as if he were quoting your posts. He doesn't see it at all where I completely see it. I'd be curious if your H thinks there's a chance you have PTSD.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2013
Sienna500
♀ Member
Member # 38832
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't have nightmares, I did straight after but that's normal and not PTSD, I don't re-experience and that's apparently the most common symptom. I'm not irritable and I don't have angry outbursts. I also don't think I'm emotionally numb. In fact I wasn't going to put what happened on this site but then because everyone was being so kind thinking something had happened to me and saying what awful things had happened to them, I felt I had to say.

I'm not 100% dismissing it and I certainly don't want to be rude but, I honestly don't believe it's the right path for me.


Me: WW 27
Him: BH 28
M: 5 years, together 8
3 kids (aged 3, 4 & a baby born 5 Sept 2013)
3 ONSs in 2 weeks
DDay: 20 Jan 2013 (a week after)

Posts: 200 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: UK
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sienna I get you think that there is nothing more to be said about what happened to you or in your life. And that your not looking for sympathy. You can continue to think that you turning off your emotions when this happened in your family has no bearing to what is happening now or not. Others have tried to tell you different.

What I can tell you is that my brother committing suicide has been the single most horrible thing to get past in my life, short of what I did to myself. It was worse than my mother trying to kill us as children. You know why? Because he made a choice to leave us, he made a choice without telling me to take himself out of my life, with no regard to what that was going to do to me, or my kids or his daughter. And 18 yrs later it still sucks. Am I over grieving him, yes. Do I still miss him? You bet.

I don't think you are allowing yourself the time to think about anything that even revolves around what happened. I had responsibilities to when this happened, it was dam hard to get through it, and I didn't always do a good job of it. But it is healed now.

You can deny it, up to you. And no one will ever force you to do this. This is your work to do.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4767 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Akire
♀ Member
Member # 32101
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its a great thread. And a sad one. Thanks for starting it Sienna. I'm bowled over by your strength - not only exhibited through what you've gone through in both the far and recent past, but what you show in your posts in this thread also. Obviously struggling to say 'no' is not an issue for you, and since it is for me, I have to say I'm jealous! Saying 'yes' might be more the issue, but if it is, I'm sure you'll figure that out.

FRM I loved your post. Sometimes having things spelt out so simply has a powerful effect. When the time is right. I hope Sienna holds onto it.

More generally (and without personalizing), its also a frustrating thread to read, for me. And slightly alarming.

I know it sounds weird but I just don't want my life to involve talking about death.

See, to me? This is a red flag. Make that a black flag. People who know (and presumably love) her have also expressed concern about whether she could make it through a thorough examination of her past at this point. Another black flag. I know loved ones can stop us going where we need to go for their own self-protective reasons - but I'm not hearing her wanting to look at something against other's resistance. THAT'S what makes it another black flag for me.

I'm going to speak bluntly cos I believe it is important: back. the. f. off. I get encouragement. I get that in certain contexts people need a firm word, rather than a kind one. It is hard judging the difference. Every relationship, even online ones like this site offers, is an opportunity to learn and will provide triggers for your (our) own issues. My gut says that in this instance, the 'need' that literally rolls off some posts for Sienna to look at what she is clearly stating she's not ready to look at, has nothing to do with her. Take it to your own IC or whatever channel you use for support. Because I guarantee you, as well-meaning as your push might be, as much as you wish/hope for a 'better' mother/wife for Sienna's wee children and hubby, they will not thank you at all for your kind intentions if they end up without a mother/wife.

I say this facing my own excrutiating battle to straddle the line between not wanting to live and wanting to die. Its been a long and tiring journey. But I chose to deal with this now. If one bastard had pushed me before I was ready, I wouldn't be straddling it, I'd be over it. I have to know and decide when I'm ready for that toughest-of-all battles. Think about Sienna's past experiences with loved ones who crossed that line - black flag! Her solid insistence to decide for herself is not being listened to. I admire it. I salute it. I don't know if Sienna has either the external or internal support to face that battle. But I bet Sienna does, and I'm backing her as the expert in this instance. The biggest thing people took from me in my life is the belief that I could trust myself. Please stop doing that.

Anyway that's all I have.


BS(me), FWH(gone), 2DS
M-16y, now S
A friend will calm you down when you're angry, but a best friend will skip beside you with a baseball bat singing: "Someone's gonna get it!"

Posts: 124 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Wisconsin
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sienna, you said,

She worries that if they force grief out of me I might not cope well when my family life is already strained. I have the same worry, it's not just her.

It's not forcing the grief out but facing the grief that will help you heal. You don't necessarily have to do this with a counselor, although it could definitely help. You may just need to do it on your own; but make no mistake, you must deal with it and feel it or you will never heal from it.

I had so much unresolved grief (over many things) that got in my way all the time. I stuffed my pain, buried my feelings and tried to soldier on. Eventually though it will catch up- and it did- which had a lot to do with why I cheated. I was looking for some way to stop feeling pain.

Please consider reading the book "Unattended Sorrow" by Stephen Levine. Even if you don't feel like counseling will help you or that it might hurt you to be in therapy right now, you might find something in that book that you relate to. It helped me tremendously and I finally was able to grieve many of my losses and to end my internal suffering.

Just a paragraph or two from the book, in hope it will help you:


Repeated loss accumulates in the reservoir of sorrow. It is the repository of all we have ever lost, all that died despite our love, all we ever hoped to be, all the disappointment and despair buried over a lifetime. Those places within ourselves that have been dug away by loss, those parts lost, worn away, and excavated by a gradually increasing helplessness and apathy, slowly begin to fill with sorrow.

Unattended sorrow is a stone stuck in the throat from "swallowing our grief," a boulder rolled into the entrance to the heart against our resurrection. It is a great wounding of hope.

It is not only the loose ends of recent traumas that are the cause of our grief, but those traumas long sequestered in our flesh and bones. The hurt burrows into the tissues of our body and the fiber of our mind and contracts around pain, turning it into suffering. The unwillingness to touch our pain with mercy, even with forgiveness, amplifies our discontent and throws our life out of tune.

Wishing you peace and healing.

[This message edited by Fallen at 7:18 PM, April 24th (Wednesday)]


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23481 | Registered: May 2004
Sienna500
♀ Member
Member # 38832
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG, as always, thank you. I really mean it but I had to stop even reading that part of your last post. I'm honestly just not going to go there whether it's for good or bad I really just don't want to. I'm so sorry for your loss and It's warming to know it can heal. I know others can grieve and get on but I didn't do it right at the time, I get that I really do. I know I got it wrong but it doesn't mean now is the time to go backwards. I only have one life, I'm messing it up I know but this is still my life I can't dwell on death, I won't. I need to find another way to move forward.

Akire, I think you might be confusing strength with cowardice! I feel like the kid saying they don't want to go on the ghost train! Thank you though, I think you get it and that feels so good right now. I would like to point out that I'm not going anywhere, I'd never leave my children willingly and I wouldn't put anyone through that shit. Not even my worst enemy.


Me: WW 27
Him: BH 28
M: 5 years, together 8
3 kids (aged 3, 4 & a baby born 5 Sept 2013)
3 ONSs in 2 weeks
DDay: 20 Jan 2013 (a week after)

Posts: 200 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: UK
Sienna500
♀ Member
Member # 38832
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fallen, thank you and I'm sure you'll be right. No ones advice is falling on deaf ears I promise. I don't feel I could read a book like that, I had to skip over those paragraphs.

I wish I hadn't said anything because I'm sure I'm frustrating the hell out of everybody. That's another special gift of mine and I'm sorry, I truly am.

At both times, especially with my brother everyone was freaking out. My sister was hysterical and when I rang my husband he came, walked in and also became hysterical. My parents and sister in law were distraught when I told them. I personally would have loved to encountered 'me' at that time. I forced rational thinking and I did calm my family. My baby didn't have a crying hysterical mother, my pregnancy all went smoothly. It worked at the time for everyone. I made all arrangements I sorted everything and everyone out. I know with hindsight this didn't work out too good for me but, at the time it worked. I'm sure I'm irritating the life out of everyone but, I'm sorry I need to find a different way of moving forward.


Me: WW 27
Him: BH 28
M: 5 years, together 8
3 kids (aged 3, 4 & a baby born 5 Sept 2013)
3 ONSs in 2 weeks
DDay: 20 Jan 2013 (a week after)

Posts: 200 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: UK
Akire
♀ Member
Member # 32101
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you might be confusing strength with cowardice

Strength and cowardice are but two sides of the one coin, friend! I think you're doing great. Really.

I wish I hadn't said anything because I'm sure I'm frustrating the hell out of everybody.

No. That's theirs to own, you don't need to take it on. I know you've been a good little sponge taking on everyone's emotions and battling through, as you very accurately point out - at your own expense. You don't have to keep doing it, you really don't. I hear you say you want to find a different way and focus on the present (for now). I think here would be a good place to start :)

Thanks for your kind words.

Edited for mistakes!

[This message edited by Akire at 8:25 PM, April 24th (Wednesday)]


BS(me), FWH(gone), 2DS
M-16y, now S
A friend will calm you down when you're angry, but a best friend will skip beside you with a baseball bat singing: "Someone's gonna get it!"

Posts: 124 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Wisconsin
thisissogross
♀ Member
Member # 30294
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You don't have anything to apologize for Sienna. We're all here trying to figure stuff out. That's all you're doing and you're welcome to it.


"A pair of powerful spectacles has sometimes sufficed to cure a person in love." -Friedrich Nietzsche

i edit frequently because i have to


Posts: 234 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: southern us
cinnamongurl
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Member # 37879
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sienna, you've just begun therapy! Its Waaay too early to begin delving into the depths of that kind of pain! Akire is 100% correct. You cannot be forced to deal with grief and trauma by others, it has to be something you're ready to face.

Work on the here and now. With that work, over time you will develop healthy coping skills. That and a good support system will help you to get to a place where you can learn to handle those memories and feelings in a healthy way.

In the meantime, you're doing the right thing by continuing therapy. It will be good for you! And don't forget that it will take some time, and some days will seem like you're getting nowhere, but you are. Your building strength, and learning to make healthy choices. It just doesn't happen overnight.

Be patient and kind to yourself, Sienna. You deserve to be healthy and happy. You've been through so much! ((Sienna))


Me: 36 fWGF He: 35 BBF and my heart
Together 18 yrs. "You were sick, but now you're well again, and there's work to do."
Kurt Vonnegut



Posts: 506 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: home with my heart.
Finally10
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Member # 36900
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, April 24th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sienna;

I think you have it right despite what many here want to tell you. As one who has had to experience the suicide of a sibling, I know what you are feeling. My situation was nothing as horrible as yours, but I carry major guilt. I have spoken to my IC about it and simply told him I wasn't ready to deal with that now, that there were more pressing issues that needed to be conquered. He looked at me and said, "You know we have to go there eventually, right?" I said, yes, eventually. He said OK, moving on...

Only you can know when you are ready to process your feelings about your situations and your focus on the here and now, your children, and your wayward issues are current. Your strength is inspiring to those of us that can relate.


Posts: 113 | Registered: Sep 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:54 AM, April 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sienna,

I don't think anyone here is frustrated with you. You don't need to keep saying your sorry. I have been in IC off and on now for three years, I have taken some things faster than others. The stuff I am tackling right now feels the most daunting of all. I wasn't ready until now. It is what it is. I worked my onion from my present back. That was easiest for me, it was how I could handle it.

What happened with you and your family, you did nothing wrong. You filled a role that you thought everyone needed, you can look back now and see that probably did yourself no good. So at some point you figure out what that means to you.

This is your process Sienna, what we can tell you is that it is a process that has to be worked if you want change to occur. This is about your life, no one else's. You decide how you want it to look.

I think you have already started making some of those changes, so stick around. You will do fine.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4767 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Sienna500
♀ Member
Member # 38832
Default  Posted: 4:08 AM, April 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone. I definitely have some food for thought.

Cinnamongurl, Akire, You both make me feel a lot less weird!

I started this thread thinking my counsellor was talking rubbish and I'm pleased to say I feel differently now, I haven't done a U turn but I'm sure I'll get there some day.

Finally10, thank you and I'm so sorry for your loss. Don't say my experience is worse, it's always going to be horrid regardless of the circumstances. My counsellor did seem OK when I said I wasn't going there, I'm hoping she doesn't do anything sneaky.

TG, thank you again and good luck to you. I'm sure I'll summon the strength at some point.


Me: WW 27
Him: BH 28
M: 5 years, together 8
3 kids (aged 3, 4 & a baby born 5 Sept 2013)
3 ONSs in 2 weeks
DDay: 20 Jan 2013 (a week after)

Posts: 200 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: UK
idiot85
♂ Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 4:58 AM, April 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You tell 'em!!!

I said in an earlier post how she doesn't talk and she nods along to everything- I'm pretty sure I could persuade her black is white (maybe in the right lighting!!) but this is something she needs to decide when to talk about- she ALWAYS stands firm on this and I think she might be right- for now at least.

Hindsight's 20/20- I shouldn't have ran around like a headless chicken, I shouldn't have lent on her so much, I should have helped out more instead of wallowing in my own grief- but- I'm an idiot and she was STRONG and it's so selfish but I'm going to say it- she really was the calm and supportive person- the only one- from finding him to getting a headstone. We were all selfish and I regret it now but- it's like I said- hindsight's 20/20. I'm trying to keep my eyes wide open now and with this- she needs to decide when to dig.

I'll be your wing commander though- I've always fancied being a pilot.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
Sienna500
♀ Member
Member # 38832
Default  Posted: 5:09 AM, April 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe in the dark with my eyes shut!

You idiot.


Me: WW 27
Him: BH 28
M: 5 years, together 8
3 kids (aged 3, 4 & a baby born 5 Sept 2013)
3 ONSs in 2 weeks
DDay: 20 Jan 2013 (a week after)

Posts: 200 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: UK
idiot85
♂ Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 5:21 AM, April 25th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You idiot.

yes


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
Topic Posts: 59
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