Should I send it to her?
No, it will do no good. She is not inclined to believe anything that does not fit with the perception of reality that she has created. More, she is going to be inclined to see anything from you as manipulative.
Use the information for your own purpose, to reinforce your 180 and resolve. Continue to detach and avoid stepping in the puddles of drama that she sheds.
Exactly, Allatsea. Don't send it. As you know, I have been in this hell far longer than you, and I can assure you that at best, it is futile.
Over the course of more than a year I have done the following:
Gave my wife five books on infidelity
Numerous articles, both scholarly and popular
Tracked down and sent her the names of therapists specializing in her FOO issues
Wrote to her countless letters apologizing, pleading, reasoning, groveling, and more reasoning, reasoning, reasoning
Statistics on the failure of relationships stemming from affairs
A list of changes I have made to myself, having gone (and continue to go to) therapy to become a better husband and man
I even forwarded to her someone's post on how to grieve and get over the loss of the AP. (This was one of the most humiliating things I did.)
Don't bother. Change must well up from deep within her, and it may take a very long time, if ever. For both of us. But by then I hope we will have both moved on and found happiness with another or alone.
I won't send it. I've sent her stuff before and she just disregards it and considers it rubbish. We must all remember that her love for the POS is real, nothing like it, it's so different and like nothing else. Other people have affairs whereas she has found true love and happiness.
You state in your post that you realize how predictable your wife and her actions are.
This is something I have always maintained: As a rule people’s actions and reactions are predictable. This is the key in how we here on SI pretend to know what will happen next. We have seen WS, their reactions, the BS reactions, the counter-measure and so on.
I think the posts suggesting your wife has a need to maintain you as a bad guy are spot on. I think that your WW and her OM have a need to unite on something and that something happens to be you. And I’m also 100% convinced they don’t see it that way. That she thinks she’s really thinking of the kids benefit or that she’s being fair. I am also certain that no matter how you react they will always see it as confirmation of their assessment of you as the bad guy.
But know what? IF she intentionally was washing the car when you returned the kids then you showing any emotions would be magnified in their conversations as a sign that you aren’t stable and therefore not capable of managing the kids. As far as “reasoning” and expecting logic then it’s a no-win situation for you. But the less you feed them the thinner their hate-shit becomes.
What can be the best reaction to provocations like your wife is sending you are simply not to react the way she expects. Look – the long “reasoned” e-mails aren’t working. The arguments and confrontations aren’t working. In fact interacting with her doesn’t seem to be working. So stop it. Do a resolute and stiff 180. Do what Marriage Builders call a Plan B. Minimize the contact and interaction to items that you KNOW you have the legal right to and/or an agreement to do.
For example: when dropping off kids then don’t stop. If you can then don’t get out of the car. Or if you have to help them with bags then do so before knocking. Or before you go there mentally prepare yourself and simply drop off the kids with a civil “hello” and nothing more.
Same with all issues regarding the divorce. Stop sending her lists with suggestions for dividing assets and so on. Send your attorney and that’s it. She’s not listening. She’s not seeing what you see. You could offer her everything and she would be looking for an ulterior negative motive.
A key issue in divorce is being focused. What really matters? It’s OK if she gets all the china if you keep your pension. It’s OK if she gets both sofas and the better car if you get something of comparable value. That Bruce Springsteen CD collection can be bought again at a later date. It’s not a question of being a pushover; it’s more an issue of accepting that she “wins” an occasional skirmish as long as you win the battle. [I once saw an interview with a divorce attorney who said he had a client that had spent over $5000 arguing over a $400 lawn-mower with “sentimental value”. Does that make sense?]
Feed them less and less to unite on and the need for them to interact as a couple will set in.
But then… Even if they break up I doubt your marriage is salvageable or even that your WW would want to try again. Being realistic I encourage you to be careful about how you interact regarding OM. After all – IF this relationship lasts it’s to your advantage that be becomes a capable co-parent with you and your then-ex-wife.
Finally… Yes divorce and custody WAS slanted towards the W in the UK but that has changed significantly in the last years. There are several powerful fathers-rights groups in the UK, some of them offering free phone-consultation and user groups. Look around, find a good group. Stop thinking like a victim and start being a winner.
I read the text about romantic relationships and also what Bigger is saying and it's going to happen. They will burn out, you watch. A lot of what they have is about you and maybe whatever baggage he has.
I know that my WH and his OW had this same thing in common. He even said to me on DDay that they had "similar situations". THAT is what draws them together, that's it! Nothing else. It's pathetic, like they both need to save each other from something.
My WH was actually forwarding my texts to her like "oh poor me, look what she is sending me now" because they were feeding off of it. I know he was doing that because the idiot tried to fwd and sent ME the message by accident. I realized then that that's what they had keeping their conversations going. They had nothing else in common! Once I stopped contacting him, I know they must have been like "ok, now what do we talk about?"
Your M may not be saved at the end of this, but I can't wait to read your post about her waking up and realizing what a big mistake she made. You be patient and whether it's that drastic or it's gradual, it's inevitable. They will NOT last!
Unfortunately and sadly she will learn the hard way when it dies out. I watched the clock and waited, praying and hoping that I would get to post my "karma story" about them ending or getting run over by a bus. I read other peoples stories and got mad because it was taking so long.
It is NOT an easy path but I finally got to a point where I stopped caring and truly detached. Of course I would think about it from time to time, but stopped obsessing over it by keeping busy and focusing that energy on my kids.
About 3 months ago I learned the OM has a new girlfriend and they have recently ended. My X has been trying desperately the past month to get me and her family back. It is a new emotion that 6-8 months ago I possibly would have considered but I am in a better place now and can honestly say I don't care or want that any longer.
My point is, there is another side and I promise you two things 1) they will NOT last and 2) you WILL get through this. It is so very sad the destruction that it has caused and pain you will endure, however once you are able to finally start focusing on you and not her or her actions, the other side will become a much better place for you.
You can't change the past.
Stop living in it.
I'm so sorry you're in such a horrible situation
Look – I’m not going to mince words…
WHAT IS YOUR GOAL? I’m not talking about a list of goals but rather a top priority nothing-else-really-matters goal.
If that goal is to get your wife back then this constant bickering won’t do it simply because it a) doesn’t make you an appealing option and b) it unites her and OM with a common enemy.
If the goal is revenge then get a balaclava, some dark clothes and key her car one night (Doesn’t really make any sense but then revenge seldom does).
OK – I take it from what I have read and what you have been saying that your aim is an acceptable outcome in divorce and custody. True? If that’s the case then ONLY do things that are inductive to attaining that goal.
Frankly I don’t give a flying f@ck about the reasons you needed to confront her face to face. Your attorney or a representative should have done that. Not you. Never. USE THE LEGAL SYSTEM. If she’s delaying things then I know that legal means could have been used. Please Allatsea – Google fathers’ rights associations in your area.
And NO – I won’t accept that this had to be done. Right now she is setting her traps and you are walking into them. Instead of her possibly having denied your kids the chance of a vacation with you (a definite big minus when the judge decrees custody) she has created a confrontation. Something she can use to show how hard it will be for the children to have to deal with constant confrontation.
However… let’s talk damage control. Check with your attorney whether the possible witnesses can be used in context with OM treading on your parental rights. At least consider getting their names and/or note the exact time and date this happened in a journal so you can refer back to them if your WW uses this instance as an example of your volatility.
Allatsea – With your goal in mind…
When you walk into a courtroom for divorce it’s COMPLETELY 50/50.
If you have no history of abuse, no threats, no violence… It stays 50/50. You can either negotiate that away OR act that away. For example: if you can’t interact in an amicable way with OM (not friends, not chums, but a) not confrontational, b) not speaking badly of him in front of kids) then a judge will be thinking: “MAYBE it’s better for the kids not to have to experience this. MAYBE its better that I favor the more “stable” parent to minimize kid’s exposure to this shit”. So from now on until this is over – THINK END RESULT.
This is a war. In all wars it’s not important to win all skirmishes or battles as long as you win the war. Think the Western Front more than you think the Charge of the Light Brigade.
The end game isn't to win her back. It's to have the children as much as possible. Then to sever my finances from hers and keep the house. Then to ignore her as much as possible and move on. I take your point that I need to be whiter than white. It's too soon to say but I might have got away with it.
[This message edited by allatsea at 4:54 AM, July 10th (Wednesday)]
I have finally received permission to take the kids on holiday. A few minor hoops to jump through but things I would have done anyway (providing flight details etc). She shrouds everything with the legal term 'in the best interests of the children' when in fact she simply didn't want me taking them abroad.
Her story about the physical altercation at the pool suggests that neither of them were in anyway physical toward me and they didn't even mention the barrage of abuse in provocation. Despite all their claims, she has 'decided not to take it any further'. A wise decision IMO.
The first legal wrangling has finally concluded and her deluded belief that the whole legal system will side with her (and her lies) have proven incorrect. The provocation from her and POS and the unilateral changing of agreed terms has come to nothing. Nearly all of the content of each of her legal letters is mostly full of hot air. My solicitor has started ridiculing (politely) her letters for having no sensible substance. For example, on one of the nights I had the children, I dropped off three large bags of clean washing, a sentimental item that WW had asked for, lunch boxes and shoes. I forgot the school bags and coats. They were collected the next day on the way to school. She felt it necessary to spend her money getting her solicitor to write about that.
She also has complained that I told her POS to F' Off. Of that, I am guilty
The biggest issue I now have to deal with is her contention that she shouldn't have to pay my legal fees because in her mind the marriage was broken before she had the affair and therefore we are both to blame for the failure of the marriage. How can I contest that?
She also has said that I have deliberately held back on getting the house valued because I know that it is worth more than I can afford. She believes that she is entitled to the resultant equity based on the asking price and not the realistic selling price. The actual truth is that the valuations have been with her solicitor since Monday, I can afford it, and she is only going to get the equity on selling price. Why is it that at every turn I am having to correct her false beliefs, lies, re-writes by spending my money getting it put in a letter to her solicitor? Rhetorical question, probably.
Mediation starts soon so I'm fast catching up with Abbondad and soon we can laugh together about the craziness that comes out in these meetings.
Throughout all of this, I am spending hard earned money on stupid letters that I could write. In fact I actually do write them and the solicitor puts his name at the top and replaces the nickname of Gru (Despicable me character) for POS's real name. He really does look like him
In any event, I wish you the best of luck. Your story is just awful. Just don't rise to her bait (and this is a BS here...)
Some choice nuggets from our mediation, all of which were met with blank stares by the mediator:
"But that's not fair."
"I don't want this divorce."
"People say I look like a certain actress. What's her name, Abbondad?"
"I am not changing my name after the divorce. I don't know how Abbondad feels about this."
"I am so tired of working in corporate America, y'know?"
"Wait. Are you saying I have to pay child support AND half their health insurance?"
"What do you mean you don't want to have family Christmas at our house? You know how important it is to me and the children"
That's really funny.
On Tuesday I got the "why are you divorcing me so soon? You should have waited? "You started this war by sending me a solicitor's letter"
They have to realise that their actions have conesquences. I honestly don't think they believed there would be consequences that they didn't like. They may have thought about living together, they may have thought about riding off into the sunset with my children and half the equity from the house in their back pockets. I don't think they thought I would fight so hard to see my children and that as a result she would see less of them. She didn't realise that she would lose all of her friends that we shared and most of the school mums too, who now see her as a jackal. She is resentful that I have a support network around me and has ridiculed them as she believes we sit around talking about how nasty she has become. All of her insecurities are showing, her boyfriend has been proven weak in mind and body, they are humiliated and she saw a side of POS that she probably didn't like very much. And now the law is telling her that she can't behave in this way.
And now she has been forced to provide consent for me to take them abroad, for their first aeroplane trip, for 10 days in the sun. She has never had to be away from them for 10 days or even 3 for that matter. These are things she has to accept as the new reality
Today is a good day.
[This message edited by allatsea at 2:58 PM, July 4th (Thursday)]
I can sit down and write a formal sounding letter where I threaten to take you to court if you don’t stand on your head and recite the Lord’s Prayer backwards… But you don’t need to reply any more than you want to. And without your reaction to claims that have no base in law… The letter turns into something that’s to YOUR advantage.
So her solicitors letter about the events…
But DEFINITELY ask your attorney whether you need to take precautions regarding her accusations and description of the events. I’m thinking all that’s needed is that you know the name of the security and possibly the name of the police officer. Just so that IF her attorney uses this to discredit you in court your attorney can counter and possibly get eye-witness accounts.
Without that… based solely on a letter from her solicitor… a judge will ignore it because it’s your word against her word. That is – unless you constantly react to her provocations. Then she might be able to show a pattern or force the judge to take a position based on sheltering the children from two bickering parents.
If however the provocations are one-sided and your reply is consistent with law, consistent with resolving the situation, cool, thought out and reasoned… All of a sudden IF you’re WW forces the judge to have to select one parent over the other… You are in the driver’s seat.
It was so satisfying seeing her cocky, arrogant, baiting, lying POS, who thought he was protected from me by being in a public place, suddenly be shown up for what he is. Weak, foolish, a bully who couldn't back up his mouth and all talk. I honestly think he pee'd just a little when he ended up on the floor. His manner changed considerably toward me afterwards and although I'm sure he will be all bravado in front of Ww, he will think twice before choosing to act like a total cock again.
All I will say is good for you.
Enjoy the trip with your boys.
Your STBXW is acting like fucktard.