Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: HurtCat (45338)

Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: The word Mistake
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you chose to do the wrong thing, knowing it is the wrong thing it is not a mistake.

A lot of times, I believe that things trace back farther than where we would say "this is obviously wrong". The inappropriate stuff starts off small and insignificant before the problem becomes apparent.

I believe that words have meanings. Those meanings are far more important to me than the feelings people choose to attach to them, but I suppose for some the feelings are more important than the meanings.

So for everyone that complains about it being called a mistake and that not being accurate, how would you feel if your WS said "It was not a mistake"?

Ultimately, even though we are all speaking English here, this issue comes down to a language barrier in most cases. I expect that long after we are all gone, and the surviving members of the human race have uploaded their consciousness to the cloud, people will still be debating this issue.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, April 2nd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you chose to do the wrong thing, knowing it is the wrong thing it is not a mistake.

It's not that simple. Ever heard of lesser of two evils? Some affairs are viewed, when making those fucked choices, just that way.

People in horrible pain making choices they know to be wrong thinking that they have no workable choice. They don't feel they can leave. They don't feel they can take the situation any more. They mistakenly let their pain and lack of viable immediate solutions enable them to use thought processes that don't serve them in making healthy choices.

They know it's wrong. They don't like who they are or what they've become. Sound familiar? Doesn't just get said in wayward. They do something they never felt they'd ever have in them, lash out brutally, by some descriptions. Find themselves getting too close to another not their spouse.

They mistakenly believe another has made them lose control, change who they are, respond in ways they'd never imagine. Why would anyone do something they know to be wrong??? PAIN!!! Soul crushing, pain. They misguidedly and wrongly believe they have no other options.

Can some honestly not see how that can be a very huge mistake and also a knowable wrong?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Betrayeddaddio
♂ Member
Member # 30198
Default  Posted: 2:43 AM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The whole Mistake/choice debate is pretty straight forward IMO. If you are an unremorseful WS then call it what ever you like, but if you are remorseful and wish to not add anymore fuel to the fire, choose words that aren't as offensive/dissmisive to your BS. I agree that your definition is "technically correct", such as in war when a fellow soldier kills another, they say "friendly fire", or when a school or hospital gets a bomb dropped on it, "Colateral damage".....technically correct doesn't seem to mesh with the damage done.

It is all semantics, or fun with words as I've heard said, and if your BS tells you they find the word "mistake" offensive, and you debate with them it's technical merits, you may not be conveying as much remorse as they might require.

[This message edited by Betrayeddaddio at 12:10 AM, April 4th (Thursday)]


BH-42 WW-40 DD-5 DD-9 DD-11
D-Day 09/27/2010 Wayward wife had a 10 month A with married DB co-worker Separated Oct. 2013

Posts: 708 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Canada
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ever heard of lesser of two evils? Some affairs are viewed, when making those fucked choices, just that way.

But there were OTHER choices that could be made. The lesser of the two evils could have been a divorce, or counseling, or a marriage retreat, or something else.

Saying that the lesser of two evils is an Affair, and it was a mistake really does sound like its being minimized.

I guess for me a mistake is doing something that you didnt mean to do.

Like I meant to call my mom, but called my dad.

Or I meant to order the red shirt but ordered the blue.

I am still failing to see how having an affair is doing something that you didnt mean to do. You kind of have to 'mean' to have sex right...there is no slipping and falling into anyone's naught bits...that's not a mistake.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
New online find 6/19/14 - shit

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2012
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But there were OTHER choices that could be made. The lesser of the two evils could have been a divorce, or counseling, or a marriage retreat, or something else.

Yes, there are. Problem is when people are in pain the scope gets pretty myopic. It's supposed to. Pain causes us to focus on ourselves in order to fix what's wrong. When people don't have the tools or don't know how to use them bad choices are made.

Doesn't really matter what you call them. If trying to reconcile I would avoid any word like the plague that would hurt my spouse.

I am not so am free to pretty much define my narrative any way that fits for me. I feel the word is quite descriptive. I honestly can't stand the word affair. I think it sounds like a spring party, but again, just me.

Like aesir said. People attach feelings to words and sometimes context become irrelevant.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good decision from one BS to a fWH. Here was my H "mistake" we chose to move away from home for his job. We lost all contact with our support groups, which meant less time spent with each other. A real stresser on our M. At the time we took the action or judgment to move we did not know it was the wrong decision for us (hence became a mistake). His way of coping: he chose to have an A. That wasn't a mistake to me. It is what he wanted. I feel he fears admitting this to himself, because it doesn't paint a pretty picture of his character. Us BS see the word "mistake" as a cop out. In my opinion, my fWH is still not owning his actions. Just hang in there. Open up to her emotionally and share your feelings with her. She will want to know that this affects you too, but in a constructive way. Build her up again. Try reading the love languages and find out what hers is.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 946 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If my FWH had said to me his affairs were a "mistake" because he was in some sort of "pain", any chance of r would have been off the table.

We all have free will to make choices every day. You choose to have an affair. You choose to lie. You choose to cause pain. Its not an accident by any means.

Calling it a mistake is akin to "it just happened" in my opinion.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
redrock
♀ Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a problem when the word 'mistake' is used to mitigate the act of infidelity.

There is a reason why publicists use it to craft the speeches for the podium of the public figures forced to acknowledge infidelity. Another word often used is- 'indiscretion'.

I feel that both words can and are 'used' in ways that minimize culpability. Does that mean is is never applicable? No.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3157 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with the posters who say it's all about the intent behind the use of the term.

This.

Maybe part of why it can be a trigger reading about it in the news and the articles that say 'mistake' is that we can't hear the emotion the author was feeling when they wrote. And it does feel like minimizing.

But for someone remorseful who says, "I made a big mistake, and I'm so sorry!" I don't think they're trying to minimize. I think they're trying to take responsibility. Instead of "it just happened", they're saying "I made". "I made this happen and I am so sorry!" Hopefully the next words would be what, specifically, they're sorry for - sorry for hurting their loved ones. It really does depend on context. But I can see how the word triggers. A person who says defensively, "I made a mistake! Aren't you ever going to let it go?" is clearly minimizing.

If the word triggers you, or if (as the WS) you're afraid or wondering if it triggers your BS, ask. It's a sign of consideration that you're trying not to trigger your partner, that you are being thoughtful of them, and hopefully the consideration behind asking and not saying the word will really count in the long term of healing. That's what empathy is.

They mistakenly let their pain and lack of viable immediate solutions enable them to use thought processes that don't serve them in making healthy choices.

This too. The mistake we made was in choosing the wrong way to handle it.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Tearsoflove
♀ Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband and I recently had this very conversation. I am a BS but I agree that an affair can most certainly be both a choice and a mistake. Throughout our lives, we make many choices that can be considered mistakes. Although I didn't have an affair, I have made many mistakes in my life, some of which were conscious choices that I now regret.

I think the issue for the BS is that mistake seems like such a small word for something so immeasurably painful. It feels like minimizing. And, to me, if you don't regret the act, it wasn't a mistake to you. Regret and remorse are paramount to actually being able to call a choice a mistake.

I don't split hairs with words. My husband considers what he has done huge mistakes. I don't disagree that they are mistakes. But as I've told my children, learning from your mistakes is how you can pull something good from it. In fact, sometimes you have to make mistakes to learn. But making the same mistake repeatedly without learning from it is, to me, the definition of stupidity. If you keep doing something devastating that you should have learned from, you really aren't making mistakes anymore- you're choosing the same painful path and proving you don't regret it by continuing on that path.

So, if you believe you've made a mistake then the following must also be true: 1. You wish you hadn't done it. 2. You would take it back if you could. 3. And you will learn lessons from it and not repeat it.

If all of these things are true, in my opinion, you have the right to call your affair a mistake. If they are not, you don't. However, it's not my opinion that really counts here- it's your betrayed spouse's opinion that matters. If mistake feels like the wrong descriptive word, get a thesaurus and find one that conveys the magnitude of your mistake. After all, it's really going to be the actions afterward that matter, not the word itself.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 4145 | Registered: Sep 2005
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tearsoflove, You put that so eloquently.

Also, I can't help thinking that why so much fuss about a word? At SI we all know it's all about actions, not words.

ETA Just want to clarify---I did not mean to minimize anybody's opinions or feelings. I think what's most important is how we act, not what we label the A.

Also, ***posting as a member*** .

[This message edited by authenticnow at 6:46 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 38013 | Registered: Sep 2007
WWMEH13
♀ Member
Member # 38722
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All this fuss over a word?

It is a word that is obviously divisive.

My initial reactions to reading people chastise other for using it, was "well, that's just ridiculous", but hearing why people feel the way they do about it, helps me use it in what I consider a more appropriate manner pertaining to my own A.


WW - 38
BH - 38
EA/PA - 8 months
Married 4 years together 7
2 Ddays, same AP last one in December 2012
NC - 2/1/2013
DS - 2 years old

Status - Divorcing


Posts: 80 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: USA
toomanyregrets
♂ Member
Member # 37740
Default  Posted: 9:40 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BH here.
An A is a choice.
It may be a mistake, but it's still a choice.
You chould just as well have chosen to be faithful.


BH - 64
fWW - 60

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife


Posts: 484 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Upstate NY
Offhispedestal
♀ Member
Member # 32528
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can make bad choices over and over. You choose to continue to lie, you choose to continue to screw the AP, You choose to keep in contact, you choose the AP over your spouse, kids and friends.....
Those are choices. Mistakes is something you don't repeat 100 times.
The way I see it my H chose to hide, lie, deceive, have sex on and off for a year.
Those are not mistakes. I think it hurts us BS because a mistake is minimizing and with a choice is something the WS was well aware of before doing it.


ME-44
WH-45
Married 24


2Beautiful daughters
DD 6/26/10 (he broke down & confessed)
DD#2 3/14/11 H in OW's car
TT 7/1/11 (NC broken, through emails)

In R


Posts: 639 | Registered: Jun 2011
still-living
♂ Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the issue for the BS is that mistake seems like such a small word for something so immeasurably painful. It feels like minimizing. And, to me, if you don't regret the act, it wasn't a mistake to you. Regret and remorse are paramount to actually being able to call a choice a mistake.

Well said. I agree there needs to be remorse and learning on the offending side, and also, a matching maturity on the receiving side. Not sure how many couples have this full package in the early stages of affair recovery. I know I didn't.

Something else I thought of as an example of minimizing, or inversely, maximizing, and appropriately using the terms: We often tell our kids to be careful of their choices when leaving for the night, and that a single wrong choice could negatively change their lives forever. We intentionally utilize the term "Wrong choice" to them to emphasis the statement, but later refer to their wrong choices as "mistakes." This to me is a clear example of where the two terms are appropriately used, although, if my son chose to speed to work because he was late, and as a result, lost control of his vehicle and killed another teenage, I would not say to the other parent that my son made a mistake. He did, but the other parent will not want to hear it.

[This message edited by still-living at 10:06 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 777 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Taken literally, yes....an affair can be characterized as a *mistake*.

I, personally, do not see it that way. It seems too trite. And frankly, I think that the definition should be changed because the way that the word is used in society typically applies when someone has a *brain fart*. When you answer a question incorrectly it's called a mistake.

When you give a person the wrong amount of change it's called a mistake. When you drive the wrong way on a one-way street it's called a mistake. When you walk into the wrong house for a party because you didn't look at the address it's called a mistake. The key theme in those things is *not paying attention* or being careless. As has been mentioned....more along the lines of an "shit, sorry, I should have been paying attention."

But now add in *intent*. You purposefully drive the wrong way, enter the wrong house, or give the wrong amount of change. Now you've committed a crime. And you *chose* to do those things.

And many times a person that purposefully makes a *choice*....and gets caught....uses the *it was a mistake* defense.

Add in the fact that Sultan used the word constantly....and it was typically linked to some form of *get over it, it's no big deal*.....so, no. I'll never be able to refer to an affair as a mistake. Even if I end up being the only person on Earth that feels that way, I won't do it.

Just saw this:

how would you feel if your WS said "It was not a mistake"?

In my situation, I would have been just fine with it because it would have been *honest*. There was absolutely nothing mistaken about what he was doing.

Eta: Tears. Your description fits exactly what I was trying to *get at*. I just can't call a repeating event a mistake.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 10:20 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8075 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Jospehine85
♀ Member
Member # 35971
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perhaps BS dislike the term "mistake" because when the WS say it, it feels as if they aren't owning what they did. Why use a euphemism to describe what occurred? Why not just call it what it is? Using "mistake" is a bit of a cop out from having to use words specifically describe one's behavior.

A BS would much rather hear a WS say, "I am sorry I put your life at risk having unprotected sex with a woman I knew nothing about. It was selfish of me and showed a complete lack of respect for you." vs. "I am sorry, I made a mistake"

The former statement shows an understanding of the exact wrong committed, why it was wrong and how it makes the BS feel.

The latter statement is too general. It doesn't lead the BS to believe that any deep thinking has occurred or that the WS is acknowledging what they did.

Also, there is a connotation to "mistake" that it is a choice made in the belief one is doing something correctly, but misguidedly makes the wrong choice.


Me - BS 40s
WH - 50s
4 Kids
Dday May 2012

Posts: 895 | Registered: Jun 2012
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If we spent this much time on the intent of the label we are trying to apply instead of the title of the label... Its like government arguing over the naming of post offices instead of how to keep it out of bankruptcy.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A BS would much rather hear a WS say, "I am sorry I put your life at risk having unprotected sex with a woman I knew nothing about. It was selfish of me and showed a complete lack of respect for you." vs. "I am sorry, I made a mistake"

Exactly.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
whatlysbeneath
♂ Member
Member # 32665
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, April 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO, It is a mistake to label multiple, horrible, deliberate choices a "mistake".


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together 18 years
M 17
D day 2010
4 young children
Every secret in a marriage is a lie...I'm tired of being lied too.

Posts: 131 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Mayberry to Hell to Limboville
Topic Posts: 40
Pages: 1 · 2

Return to Forum: Wayward Side Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.