Honest.. I am doing well. To achieve peace, we must distance ourselves from emotional reactions. Do it with williness... not just wanting. When you act is when your good will come.
My sister and her family came to town this weekend to take me out for my birthday. stbxww had other plans so that was not an issue as she was not invited. My sister is angry with her.
So Saturday morning we have our home exterminated and we all had to be out. So stbxwww, DD, DD, and DS go to breakfast. I ask the kids if their plans allow them to join for the lunch. stbxww says her plans fell through and "asks" if she can join. I said yes and later let myu sister know.
Over the course of the day, pre lunch, lunch, and post luncht, stbxww would say "thanks for including me", "I only came because you wanted me too" along with many variations on these two themes. This has been common. stbxww says in a conversation "I want us to remain good friends" or "I am glad you still like me" and later when I ask what she expects as "friends" it becomes "I never said that" Oh well, I am becoming used to this.
Okay tribe, I know this will get some blow back. But I am actively trying to help her purchase a home for herself. Based on her inclome AND that they consider our current mortgage as her obligation, she does not qualify for a loan. I am willing to cosign but that does not solve things either as then I must be on the home title as well. Fortunately, our financial situation alows flexibility and I will find a way to work this out. AND this does not mean that I will give more than a 50/50 split of our assets.
Finally, this has been an awful week. I found myself "lost in space" several times at work and my colleagues would be calling h&c to bring me back. And the daily irritations, nothing unusual, seemd grossly exagerrated along with my reaction. I do not think it is adding a 1 to the 50 but as someone has mentioned it is the cycle of anniversaries (DDays and associated events) along with the imminent divorce, the rejection, and the upcoming drastic changes in my life.
Still, it will be very nice to not be criticized for who I am and what I do and maybe I will find someone that appreciates and shows their appreciation for who I am and what I do.
I recently metioned to stbxww that I was having a crappy time and she told me "I need to be strong". Well, right now I am tired. I am tired of being strong. I am tired of dealing with her choice to A. I am tired of her justification. I am tired of everything being my faoult.
Whew! I am starting to feel better already and regain my footing. Tomorrow will be a GOOD day and I will exel at work and recognize those that contribute. I will look forward to a weekend of activities with my wonderful kids. Life is sweet!
Be happy! Be healthy! Be safe! Live with ease!
As long as you protect yourself emotionally and financially then you are doing good.
Heartbreaking and anger inspiring to read that your W is so selfish so as to subject you to more pain just so she can have more kid time. I hope you made it clear to her that she asked, not you.
As for the house, no blow back from me: sounds like you will own half of the asset and associated debt. As long as you do not have a worse deal than an objective 3rd party investor, then what the hell.
Hang in there---
ETA: on second thought, what is there going to be in place that makes sure she pays the note? Wouldn't it be easier to get her off of the other mortgage so as to enable her credit? based on her treatment of you, I am afraid that the more you help her, the more you will be kicking yourself later. Have you told everyone the truth yet? Just curious.
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:49 PM, June 5th (Wednesday)]
Even my xWH#1 who was so willing to help and was generous with the separation agreement in the beginning, started to start thinking of solely himself financially as the years passed after the D. He was the poster boy of how one should pay CS and maintainence. Seriously, no sarcasm.
Protect yourself and your kids H&C. She wants a house? Tough. She can rent for now. She wants the D. She had the A. She should suffer the consequences. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I'm worried about you and that she'll take advantage of your good nature.
I'm sorry but I have to speak about the plan to buy a house with or for your WW.
Please.....do NOT do it.
Do not tie yourself to her.
Do not get entangled in her web.
She will get 1/2 of your total assets, she will receive child support and..... she will get a job just like the rest of us adults.
With all of that money she will be able to afford to rent an adequate apartment for herself and the children.
She may even be able to afford to rent a house.
She should not be rushing into buying anything at this point.
She should wait until the dust settles after the divorce.
She needs to figure out how it is to live on her own, how she needs to budget her money and how much maintenance she can do on her own etc.
She may decide that she cannot handle maintaining a house on her own and the ease of a rental fits better.
You do not need to get involved in any of this.
You need to focus on keeping yourself healthy-both physically and psychologically.
Your kids need a healthy dad.
You need to focus on creating a nice, welcoming, home for your kids when they stay with you during their visitations.
As long as they have a comfortable and safe place to live with your ex WW.... that's all you should be interested in.
Maybe a year or so after the divorce is final...that's when you can take a look at things and decide if you want to help your children out with more financial help etc.
But, as your children get older you may need that extra cash to help pay for cars for them and /or college tuition etc.
You do not need to finance your WW's new house.
sorry h&c- I know you said that you didn't want any blowback about this but... I had to say what was on my mind.
I am tired of everything being my faoult.
My first thought was to say, you're a man, get used to it.
But really, only things that you take responsibility for can be your fault.....and this leads me to expressing my opinion of you helping your WW to purchase a house. You are taking some responsibility here and therefore liability for fault. I saw post-D from the perspective of watching FWW and her xH and from talking with attorney for my own pending D. I recommend agreeing to only what is necessary and required in the D agreement and in general until the D is settled. Then, magnanimously, you can provide more if you are so inclined.
…anniversaries (DDays and associated events) along with the imminent divorce, the rejection, and the upcoming drastic changes in my life.
Certainly a full plate, but people do survive this stuff and you will too. In the words quoted by the great philosopher Bobby McFerrin:
Meher Baba originally said Don't Worry, Be Happy. Actually, his real phrase was Do your best, then don't worry, be happy.
A bit of a breakthrough for me. I have voiced that while better, my M today is not what I want and that I do not feel the love and pride in FWW and the M I recall from before. I realized today that much of that pride and love was about things I was projecting on to the M and FWW. Who I thought that she was, my expectations for the M. Now that I see more clearly, I wonder if this is as good as it gets. Companionship is not bad, and much of love is just biochemistry and fantasy.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 12:42 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]
I have been reading some of the posts here and am surprised that after such long term affairs some of you are in reconciliation.
And many of the spouses' LTAs were longer than my WWs. (Hers is going on two years.).
Would some of you share briefly or otherwise your narratives--specifically how they came out of the fog? Was it gradual? Sudden epiphany? What happened and how?
Mine has had a few moments of clarity, with tears, promises, etc. only to fall right back into it. It looks like she is too far gone, even though she cries when she sees me, which makes me sad to think there exists a vestige of the woman I knew beneath this incredibly selfish person.
Only when she was caught a year ago was she the sobbing, pleading person she should be. But that person has not made her appearance since.
We are heading to divorce, so it ultimately doesn't matter, but I must admit that hope has never been completely extinguished.
Welcome to LTA.
...surprised that after such long term affairs some of you are in reconciliation.
Technically, I think that I am in a state of "not divorcing". To me reconciliation implies returning to a M with mutual support and love. I think that FWW and I are good friends and companions.
--specifically how they came out of the fog?
I moved out of the house for a while about a year ofter dday. During this time I worked on detaching and moving towards D. FWW got to experience being alone, showing up and sitting separately at kids events, etc. During this period she decided she did not want to be D again, and that she did want to be M to me. We had been going to MC off and on, but at this point it shifted to IC for her that lasted 2+ years. We had a very good MC/IC, and FWW trusted him. By the time I moved out she realized she had some issues she needed to resolve.
Overall it was a verrrrrrrry gradual process. For the first 2-3 months after dday she told me how it was good that I had to forgive her for her A as it made it easier for her to forgive me for being a crappy H.
I complained here on SI often that FWW was a day late and a dollar short working towards R, but in retrospect she was making progress, just very slow.
She TT'd for 7 months after dday, and while I never got the full story I did eventually get enough. It was my rage shifting to withdraw, a feeling of hopelessness on her part, and pressure by the MC that eventually got her to tell me what she did.
As I noted, for a year after dday FWW was not sure she wanted to be M to me, or anyone. She was looking at options to leave, starting another 5-year plan to leave when kids were out of school.
I do not know that this was fog so much as taking her a period of time to realize her perceptions were miss-perceptions. Her behaviors were not working well for her.
Today she is better, much better. But just like someone who has recovered from a fractured hip still moves with a limp and has stiffness, the signs of her fractured personality from her FOO, SAb, As, and other issues are still there.
Last fall we planned to separate and D in January because I was not happy with our M. I like FWW, but as a friend or roomate, not a W or lover. Then she lost her job, and so we have remained together. She says she wants to stay together and is trying. For now, for me, not divorcing is the path of least regret.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:11 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]
Tryn and H&C....Happy belated B-Day to you both!!!
A WS that remains in the fog, is not 100% honest or transparent, holds back information (trickle truth) and worse yet-sits on the fence and cannot decide whether or not to leave the affair partner or commit to the marriage makes it very difficult to reconcile.
welcome to the lta forum a-dad....i have no answers for your questions, wish i did....
h&c....as for helping your wife buy her next house....i agree that it is more then admirable, she is the mother of your kids, in spite of her shortcomings (a bit of an understatement)....but i agree with the others...protect yourself and seek out a lawyer to find out how best to go about it, so that at the very least, your credit remains intact and that she is solely responsible for her own bills (mortgage, texes, etc) you are an amazing man with a huge compassionate capacity for love.....i am certain that once you put yourself out there you will meet someone who will "see" you for all you have to offer, and i am not talkin money here!!!!
crazy ass week its been for me....and today was totally out there...i took pfm for a colonoscopy, in the am, he awoke to take our son to school, but because of the prep involved, he was not sure he would be able to take him, so i awoke when i heard stirrings in the bedroom, opened my eyes and asked him if he was able to take our son...he said he would try and and then he sincerely thanked me, i put my head back down on my pillow, closed my eyes intending to go to sleep, and then about 30 seconds later he kisses me on the head....wtf....i jump up and tell him to keep his lips to himself....(sidenote, he still asks me every now and then to reconcile, argues with me that he is a changed man, and when i tell him he is stil a liar, he protests he is better, and that nobody is perfect)...
i take him for the colonoscopy, and the dr's sedate you for the procedure....i go into where he is when its time for him to leave...i ask him if he needs any help putting on his underwear and pants, he says yes...i put the underwear on up to his knees and tell him that he could do the rest....and wait for it...he looks at me all depressed and said
"you didn't even look at me" to which i replied
"i have seen it before, i know what it looks like and i have no need to look at it now...." totally a wtf moment....
the man is totally off his rocker....last week he was goin nuts because he had a "dream" that i met someone, and he couldn't stand the thought of some other man "groping" me...
R E A L L Y........R E A L L Y.....and i should be just fine over what he did for our entire marriage....
some of these ws's totally defy logic.....
oh and i see we are about to close out another "house" here on lta...
may the next house be filled with more good then bad, and of course lots of warm and fuzzy shit!!!
gonna start thinkin now bout how we will decorate it...so whoever "open's" it, make it "pretty" special please!!!
i'm thinkin its time for the cabana boys again!!!
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 11:27 PM, June 6th (Thursday)]
Needless to say this was a big trigger for me today when they called with the date the surgeon could do the surgery. I will be in the hospital for a couple of days and have almost had an anxiety attack just thinking about leaving my home unguarded again. The last time I left a VAR, but WH played the sterio for a couple of hours and I heard nothing but music. OW left me a nice little thoughtful note in my jewlery box to let me know she was in my home/bed again. I didn't find it for a month however.
Along with all the bleeding it has put a real damper on our sex life, which has caused me even more anxiety because his excuse for cheating was not enough sex. I know he has no right at this time to expect sex from me and he hasn't pressured me in the least. Unfortunately that sends another red flag that he doesn't even seem interested in sex with me. The few times we have been able to have sex, he has had trouble because of his daily drinking to the point of passing out every night. It has not been enjoyable for me since DDay#1. On top of that, I will have to abstain for 6weeks following surgery.
He is also stressing out because he thinks he is fixing to get laid off from his job after 29yrs with the company and he doesn't know how to do anything else. He has had the exact same job and position all 29 of those years and never tried to move up the ladder to management or even a lead person. He knows he will not be able to get a job making anywhere near the money he makes now. He is a heavy equipment mechanic but said he is now a dinosaur in his skills knowledge of the new equipment coming out that requires technology to diagnois any issues. He has never taken the initiative to update his skills base or learn how to use the computers now required for the new equipment coming out. I have tried since we meet to get him to become more technology knowledgeable, but since computers seem to be another way to cheat, I have quit trying to encourage him since the A to learn how to use it. Hell, just look what he did with text messaging. Literally hundreds a month to OW, all day and night. It was sickening to see. I don't know how they managed to get any work done at their jobs.
All of these things have him stressed to the max and his drinking is not improving his outlook on anything. I have tried to discuss everything with him, but it falls on death ears. He is into the feeling sorry for himself and whining. It is like living with a troubled teenager. I have tried to encourage him that we will make it finacially just fine because hopefully after recovery I can go back to work myself and I make excellent money because I don't sit around feeling sorry for myself and am always taking classes to improve my skills, credentials, etc.. and will have no problem getting a good job. I quit my last job due to the A and then my health issues kicked in, then another DDay after a year of false R. I am afraid with all of the stress we are under that he will seek out the OW again to give him his ego-kibbles and sex that he so desires. She has recently broken NC, so I know she is still lerking in the wings waiting for her opportunity to start up the A again.
I know there is nothing I can do to stop him if that is really what he wants to do. It is out of my control and has nothing to do with me, only him and the brokeness that he still refuses to acknowledge or seek help for. I know I can't save this marriage by myself and must concentrate on myself and my needs (easier said than done somedays). I know if he cheats again that I will file for D and there will be no going back. I have been working on detaching and have prepared myself for the possibility (probability) that he will not be able to handle the stress and will fall back into fantasy land again. I know however that being in the hospital is going to cause me great anxiety until I am home again. Does anyone have any advice on how to stop these horrible triggers that seem to control so much of my world these days? I have tried to stay busy and put my mind on other things but I can't seem to make these triggers stop. I know it is mind over matter but my trigger mind seems to be winning lately.
Welcome Abbondad - my WW's fog maybe is a bit different. She ended some of her affair stuff before I found out already so she was in the progress of getting out of the fog I guess. I don't know if it is like turning on a light bulb and is more of a gradual process. The real trick is knowing if they are truely out of it or not.
So I have been really busy lately as we have been moving. We built a new house and are closing on the house that we have lived in for the last 10 years. The new house is great - yes I am crazy I think, I built my WW her dream house while going through all of this. I have such mixed emotions on the old house though. Part of me is glad to get away from it knowing what I know now but it is also the house for all the early years of my kids growing up. It is filled with such great memories but also all these other memories that were hid from me. It all feels a bit symbolic too, a fresh start with the new house but to get there I have to sift through all these stuff with its past memories.
much of love is just biochemistry and fantasy.
Trust.. I am so sorry! I hope you surgery goes very well and improves your health issues greatly. Try to relax, it is hard, and focus your energy on healing your physical ailments.
R E A L L Y........R E A L L Y.....and i should be just fine over what he did for our entire marriage....
h&c........i am certain that once you put yourself out there you will meet someone who will "see" you for all you have to offer, and i am not talkin money here!!!!
Abbondad.. welcome and I am sorry that you find yourself joining this tribe, ableit a great tribe. I see a lot of similarities with my own situation.
As njgal noted "fence sitting" does not lend it self to reconcilliation. In my case, my stbxww was never fully into the M post DDay. And IMHO, a lot of the dynamics were defense to protect herself emotionally: "I am not a bad person. I had the A because I had a bad M."
DDay1.. I discovered condoms in her dresser. She lied. Short A and it was over.
DDay2.. uncovering lie was imminent due to phone records. She provided the whole story (almost) and was even telling how "smart" the AP was. WS are in another world.
Three months later, she answers all of my questions. Se was almost trance like
We did some rituals together (burning the telephone records, ceremony to atone for sins). I was totally crushed and she was unable to reach out and console me. I would be depressed, have a bad day, sink into the sofa, and close my eyes to blok the pain. And she would comment on how I was not doing anything.
We were talking weeks after DDay2 and I learn that she had been meeting Ap during the A for lunch and giving BJ. I erupted And she replied "not every time". Ugh and her narrative was that of course she was defensive as I was throwing the A in her face.
So the short version. Not really a fog. Traded one fantasy for another (bad M) to protect herself. Never really examined herself, just examined her environment for the explantion.
Wish I could help.
Be safe! Be happy! Be health! Live with ease.
Trust: I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers for your surgery. It's hard not to trigger with the dates and your memories of what WAS.
You are right, there is nothing you can do to prevent him from cheating again. Even if you did not have the surgery if he wanted to do it again, he will. He will find some excuse, just like an alcoholic makes any excuse to drink.
The only suggestion I can make that might help you feel in more in control (just a feeling, we are never truly in control) is to hide your valuables, like jewelry, any documents, money etc. It will just give you a little piece of mind KWIM? Install the VAR if you want.
But keep telling yourself, you cannot control him and you are not the marriage police.
Ats: You sound so resigned. If your WW did get a job, what would your decision be?
I truly understand the "not divorcing" mentality. I was there for a long time, and was probably going to stay there indefinitely.
"Not divorcing" is different than limbo. Limbo is where you are stalling, having not made a decision and not knowing what to do. You stay stuck.
"Not divorcing" is more of an aware choice to keep the status quo for a while. You have accepted what is, and know what you are doing. But, it is just a step above limbo.
You know, the M is not just about being in love. It is also a commitment between the two parties to move ahead with one another. A trust that there is a partnership an investment in family and the things you built together.
Gotta run for now.